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Is this legal?

  • 20-06-2010 1:02am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 267 ✭✭


    So I work in the restaurant of a hotel, I am classed as a part time or casual worker.
    We are scheduled on 4hour shifts e.g. 6-10pm and are paid accordingly.
    However everyone regularly ends up working 15-45mins extra depending on the night.
    When I approached human resources about being paid for this extra time worked I was told that it was not hotel policy pay unscheduled work.

    We clock in and out using the hotel computer system 'techotel'; surely that keeps a record of hours clocked in which could allow for an accurate measure of hours worked.

    Any opinions or suggestions?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭einshteen


    Are you paid an hourly wage?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭DubTony


    The roster has you down for 4 hours so that's what they pay you for, even though you're "obliged" to "finish your work". It's the same in some convenience stores.

    If they're using an electronic system to record hours worked they're leaving themselves wide open to be prosecuted under one of those Payment of Wages Acts.

    Tough situation. Obviously you aren't in a union, so it's up to you to argue that the work is not unscheduled, simply not rostered. You know you have to do it, they know you have to do it. So all the way down, it's expected, so therefore it's effectively scheduled. What would happen if you simply left at the rostered finishing time?

    Having said all that, it's a job.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭einshteen


    DubTony wrote: »
    Having said all that, it's a job.

    It's attitudes like that that lets companies get away with things like this. They're not going to fire you for insisting you get paid.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Surely this can't be legal? Keep a log of all your time worked - bring it up with a manager, and put in a claim against them if they don't pay you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭tenchi-fan


    I worked in plenty of places where it was expected for people to "finish up" even if it took 15 minutes, or even be in 15 minutes early to set up your till or turn on your pc and log into all programs so you could "start" on time. 45 minutes seems to be pushing the boat out though!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭tenchi-fan


    I'm just after thinking as well, most people who work in shops are rostered until closing time. If a customer stays til 10 past, the floor still needs to be brushed, till counted and shutters locked. That's easily at extra 25 minutes.

    I think you need to weigh up how much you want the job.

    Is there no way everyone can work a bit harder coming up to closing and get the work done on time?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭edellc


    tenchi-fan wrote: »
    I'm just after thinking as well, most people who work in shops are rostered until closing time. If a customer stays til 10 past, the floor still needs to be brushed, till counted and shutters locked. That's easily at extra 25 minutes.

    I think you need to weigh up how much you want the job.

    Is there no way everyone can work a bit harder coming up to closing and get the work done on time?

    what a silly thing to say

    Is there no way everyone can work a bit harder coming up to closing and get the work done on time?[/QUOTE]
    i'm sure the OP is working as hard as possible....when i worked in retail the shop stayed open until midnight we always made sure everything was completed at 11.50 which the exception of one till at about 5 to midnight someone stood at the door with their keys in hand rattling them to let eveyone know it was closing if someone showed up and tried to get in no chance we always got out about 10 past
    i doubt the scenario about could play out in a hotel and it is unfair to have to work overtime like that and not get paid im sure if the OP where late in they would have no problem deducting wages from them


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,267 ✭✭✭DubTony


    einshteen wrote: »
    It's attitudes like that that lets companies get away with things like this. They're not going to fire you for insisting you get paid.

    I've highlighted the naive bit in your reply. Believe me, casual part-timers are the easiest staff to fire if a company wants to.

    If an employer is bad enough not to pay his people for the hours they work, he'll have little hesitation in finding a way to get rid of a "potential trouble maker".

    I'm not saying the OP shouldn't get what he's entitled to. I'm just warning that it may bring consequences.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭tenchi-fan


    edellc wrote: »
    what a silly thing to say

    I disagree here. Perhaps the op works hard but that doesn't mean everyone else does.

    I used to work in a nightclub, at the end of the night some of the staff used to stand around chatting.. leaning on brooms, dossing in the keg room, hiding out the back.. there was a good 30 minutes a day of people just waiting for the nightclub to die down when they really should have been helping to sweep up, restock the bar, get mop buckets ready, etc.

    Yep, it was good craic. But we often ended up working later than necessary just because some people didn't pull their weight earlier in the night.

    Having said that, who is to say if people worked harder the management might use the opportunity to employ less staff.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,063 ✭✭✭ParkRunner


    I used to work in retail and we would often have to work 15 mins beyond closing time to clean up, get all the tills taken off and all the customers out. What management did was to have some staff start 15 minutes late and they are the ones who would do the jobs at the end. The others went when their shift was up. Seemed like a fair way to handle it to me, but this was at the peak of the celtic tiger


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    O/p, depends on contract if you have one.

    Say you work 4.5 hours, but get your pay for the 4 hour roster. If you got the same pay for 4.5 hours it could still be above min wage if that makes sense....obiously depending if your paid hourly or on a contract basis etc etc

    Its an employers world these days. Work the bit extra or leave basically, they know they can screw around a little and get away with it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 151 ✭✭einshteen


    DubTony wrote: »
    I've highlighted the naive bit in your reply. Believe me, casual part-timers are the easiest staff to fire if a company wants to.

    It would really open a company up to legal action if they did that, that was my reasoning.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭shinikins


    Have you tried asking for your breaks? After all, when you work more than 4 hrs, you are entitled to a 15 minute paid break. If you tell HR that you wish to take this break, and that they would be breaking employment law by not allowing you to take it, you may be paid for the extra time you work, or they may revise when part time workers like yourself finish their shifts. i've worked in the hotel industry for quite some time now, and overall i've found Hotel HR to be the most difficult to get help from. I'd suggest printing off a copy of your employment rights and referring to it when you speak to them. And if you get any guff about there being special rules that apply to them, there are also basic indutry standards that they are obliged by law to adhere to. Knowledge really is power!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 267 ✭✭ciarraioch1


    Thanks for all the advice and opinions!

    We are all paid an hourly wage (minimum wage, so 9.08 per hour).

    I intend on finding out if the hotel computer system keeps a record of clock in/outs. If it does, which is quite likely, surely they would have an accurate measure of hours worked.

    I have brought the issue up with my head of department and was basically told "I don't get paid for the extra, so why should you"
    And I am very aware of the fact that I could easily be fired for starting a row with HR.

    I was reading through my contract of employment and there is no mention of being paid for hours worked or anything like that, only a piece about balancing work over 2 weeks when more than 39 hours are worked in one week..their way of not paying overtime!


    What legal documents could I consult?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    in a large multi national i worked for we were rostered to start every day at 9am when the phones opened

    the phones opened at 9 so we had to be there a little earlier to turn on our computers etc

    we were rostered to finish at 5 and the phones turned off at and then we would do some paper work and log off etc etc

    the company paid us for 5 mins either side of those times to account for this. would they do that if they didnt have to legally? i doubt it so you should definitely look into it


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    this is taking advantage of you and others, should not be expected to work for nothing, which is what this is


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 267 ✭✭ciarraioch1


    Yes i figured it was taking advantage of us, but at the same time, it would be far to easy to just fire anyone who didn't comply. Plenty other candidates out there dying for a job!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,339 ✭✭✭tenchi-fan


    you should log your own hours too. And if you work long enough to entitle you to a paid break, you should also log any time you asked for a 15 minute break and were refused.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,842 ✭✭✭shinikins




    What legal documents could I consult?

    http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployees/workinghours/

    Also from Nera's website, concerning terms of Employment "Terms of Employment

    The Terms of Employment (Information) Act 1994 provides that an employer must issue their employees with a written statement of terms and conditions relating to their employment within two months of commencing employment. It must include the following:
    • The full names of the employer and the employee
    • The address of the employer
    • The place of work, or where there is no main place of work, a statement indicating that an employee is required or permitted to work at various places
    • Job title or nature of the work
    • Date of commencement of employment
    • If the contract is temporary, the expected duration of employment
    • If the contract is for a fixed-term, the date on which the contract expires
    • The rate of pay or method of calculating pay
    • Whether pay is weekly, monthly or otherwise
    • Terms or conditions relating to hours of work, including overtime
    • Terms or conditions relating to paid leave (other than paid sick leave)
    • Terms or conditions relating to incapacity for work due to sickness or injury
    • Terms or conditions relating to pensions and pension schemes
    • Periods of notice or method for determining periods of notice
    • A reference to any collective agreements which affect the terms of employment
    For further information download our guide to Terms of Employment (Information) Act, 1994 and 2001.

    Follow the link to the relevant legislation; The Terms of Employment (Information) Act 1994."


    Have a look at their ste, or give Citizens information a call, there's plenty of help out there for employee's.:cool:


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