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How far should self defense in your own home go?

  • 19-06-2010 1:26am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭


    Rather how much should you be able to get away with if someone enters your house.

    to get the ball rolling i think its instinct to protect your home so depending on the intent of the criminal breaking in anything goes really, whats everyone else think?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭plein de force


    crippling or killing the intruding fcuker


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,647 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    In before someone mentions a kick in the face.

    Edit: Also, Padraig Nally.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    Kill 'em stone dead.........Shouldn't be in your home for no reason whatsoever and deserve what they get!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭alwaysadub


    I think you should be able to protect yourself and your family by any means possible. If someone is coming at you with a knife or something, shouting at them isn't going to do much good. A baseball bat, on the other hand, would make things a bit fairer


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    well depending on how sexy the intruder is i could possibly go all the way but will the law protect me?

    ah yea i agree though you can make all the laws and moral guides you want but if someone enters your gaff its instinct to take him out before he hurts you or your family.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,215 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    Reasonable force should be used so that you can protect yourself , your property and your family. If this means going to town on someone with a hurley then that is acceptable. Every situation is different and you can not have only one hard and fast rule but I like the marine saying that the only unfair fight is the one you lose.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    Reasonable force should be used so that you can protect yourself , your property and your family. If this means going to town on someone with a hurley then that is acceptable. Every situation is different and you can not have only one hard and fast rule but I like the marine saying that the only unfair fight is the one you lose.
    i totally agree but the irish law says different how much would the law deter you all from acting?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭Kevin Bacon


    If you break into someones house in my mind you forgo any rights you have. If it ends up you being killed its an open and shut case in my mind. Tough sh*t you shouldn't have been there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,084 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I draw the line at doing a poop on their chest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭epgc3fyqirnbsx


    As it is. Whatever the spins in the papers say...

    You will get away with proprtinate force. You will. (Maybe moreso when you look at Nally)

    If someone breaks into your house and is robbing your TV, shooting him in the face or stabbing him in the eye will be wrong.

    If he come at you then thats a different story
    (It's hard to prove he didn't come at you)

    And the whole thing of having to run away is bs, thats not conclusive, it's a factor to be taken into account. And remember there's a jury of your peers

    Has there actually been a major problem with this yet in this country?

    Nope. It ain't broke


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    As it is. Whatever the spins in the papers say...

    You will get away with proprtinate force. You will. (Maybe moreso when you look at Nally)

    If someone breaks into your house and is robbing your TV, shooting him in the face or stabbing him in the eye will be wrong.

    If he come at you then thats a different story
    (It's hard to prove he didn't come at you)

    And the whole thing of having to run away is bs, thats not conclusive, it's a factor to be taken into account. And remember there's a jury of your peers

    Has there actually been a major problem with this yet in this country?

    Nope. It ain't broke

    im not saying there is in this country, the point of the thread isnt what stupid laws we have in this country ect im just curious. there has been several convictions were people were defending themselves in england so it could happen here but all in all our country has been quite fair.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,584 ✭✭✭digme


    opportunity for a danger ****


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,039 ✭✭✭Seloth


    By any means necessary!Its your home,your property!

    If this were the animal kingdom you'd be the feckin owning animals poop :p.

    Recently heard of a break in where they took practically everything of any value!everything else they smashed!.For instance they broke furniture and ripped it up,even went into one fellas bedroom and ripped up his leaving cert books and notes two weeks before the exam started!!!.

    Scum like that deserve no rights.

    A few years back there were a seriouse of break ins in the houses up the road from mine.One night the father of one house came down to find the guy in his kitchen and beat the **** out of him and called the guards..No further charges after on him heh.Turns out the guy went out with someone in the area and they broke it off leaving him pissed..as to why he took this out by burling neighbours just confuses me


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,228 ✭✭✭epgc3fyqirnbsx


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    im not saying there is in this country, the point of the thread isnt what stupid laws we have in this country ect im just curious. there has been several convictions were people were defending themselves in england so it could happen here but all in all our country has been quite fair.

    Sound, I think it's pretty ok here.
    There was a case in England last year where an Indian man got a few years for beating an intruder into his home into a coma. Headlines made it seem scandalous but on inspection, it was something like his brother chased the intruder down the road, knocked him, then yer mano went to town on his head and he got jail for it.
    Think the system is ok tbh

    But as for what force you should be able to use, if ou feel threatened then you're entitled to lash out. And the thing is, it's subjective. It wouldn't even be what would a 'reasonable man' do. it would be 'what was the homeowners frame of mind at this time'.
    Which is exactly how you would want it.
    I know our house was cleaned out before, our driveway is a half mile long, and it's another mile half to the main road then eight miles to town. But we have a shotgun here and there would be no hesitation to load it, let a warning shot off, and a targeted one if need be.
    There used to be a lot of old men tied up and robbed in the west in the past (chief suspect gentlemen seem to be making money in other ways now...) but there would be a lot of sympathy in such cases.

    I'm talking rural, I'd imagine urban there'd be a different class of intruder, and maybe more dangerous, high chances of being strung out etc. But I think sypathys would still be in the homeowners court, unless homeowner went over the top altogether.

    I've been typing through one eye, leaba for me


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭Adamisconfused


    Whatever force is necessary to end the threat to yourself or your family. No more than that though. If it means killing your attacker then so be it, but that doesn't involve bashing his skull in when he is laying injured.
    Like it or not, burglary doesn't carry a death penalty and you shouldn't get to do whatever you want because someone is on your property.

    BTW, charging a burglar isn't the best idea in the world. In most cases, he'll want the feck out so let him go. Attacking an unknown quantity is always immeasurably stupid.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 Bravadin


    And the whole thing of having to run away is bs, thats not conclusive, it's a factor to be taken into account. And remember there's a jury of your peers

    Didn't we change the law recently so we don't have to run away?

    My opinion is whatever it takes as long as he doesn't die, unless it happens by accident !!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 527 ✭✭✭shuvly


    I saved for my little old **** heap money pit for 10 years, it may be in negaively equity for years to come..but it's my **** heap, and I would kill 4 it...(there is no slash hook or samurai sword under my pillow, honest judge...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭oisinmc14


    How far nuclear warfare i say


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    Rather how much should you be able to get away with if someone enters your house.

    to get the ball rolling i think its instinct to protect your home so depending on the intent of the criminal breaking in anything goes really, whats everyone else think?

    Personally, I would beat the crap out of him and then put him outside my gate.

    It's up to him how he explains it to the guards, should he call them.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Reasonable force should be used so that you can protect yourself , your property and your family. If this means going to town on someone with a hurley then that is acceptable. Every situation is different and you can not have only one hard and fast rule but I like the marine saying that the only unfair fight is the one you lose.

    i totally agree but the irish law says different how much would the law deter you all from acting?

    No, it doesn't. Irish law says almost exactly what he said it did. You can use whatever level of force is required to protect your home, yourself and your family, up to and including lethal if required. Unlike here in California, where I can usually just shoot and get it over with.

    NTM


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 161 ✭✭Dazd_N_Confusd


    I think we should have the right to protect our homes with guns.

    And no, I'm not American or a Republican!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭antocann


    for self defence in your home you only need 3 things , a brick , a sock and a toothbrush , deadly weapons in trained hands:rolleyes::D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    If you break into someones house in my mind you forgo any rights you have. If it ends up you being killed its an open and shut case in my mind. Tough sh*t you shouldn't have been there.

    You are imagining the typical hypothetical with a grown-up burgler.

    What if it was a 12-year old out for ****s and giggles?
    Does he deserve death?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,729 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    All I know is, I'm never robbing a home in texas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭ROCKMAN


    Personally, I would beat the crap out of him and then put him outside my gate.

    It's up to him how he explains it to the guards, should he call them.


    NICE PLAN

    but if you as the home owner have to tackle [kick the siht out of] an intruder, make sure where ever it happens hall ,kitchen etc that you tell the cops in started in our bedroom.As far as I Known your self defence rights are much better once an intruder enters our bedroom. ,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    I wouldn't kill someone myself (well, wouldn't try to) but if it is done by others, I have no objections really. breaking into someone's house is fairly scumbaggy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,815 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    Whatever it takes to protect what is mine.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    What ever it takes to keep my family safe. What that entails I won't be saying on a public forum (to be dug up later by a prosecuting solicitor later maybe!).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭heathersonline


    antocann wrote: »
    for self defence in your home you only need 3 things , a brick , a sock and a toothbrush , deadly weapons in trained hands:rolleyes::D

    Toothbrush? Anyway, I'm off to buy a hurl today


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 489 ✭✭Trashbat


    Personally I would do anything and everything to someone who thought they could come into my house without my permission, but that is exactly why I don't make the laws.

    Its impossible to draw a line here really. Obviously a stuation where a burglar could sue you for using too much force is silly, but the fact is the majority of people out there are not trained fighters and have no idea how much is enough, meaning they cold often go too far.

    Further to that, what kind of an excuse does force give people? You kill your wife, claim in court that you heard a noise downstairs, went to confront what you thought was a burgler with a hurley and accidentally killed them, only to find out who it was later. Would that stand? Certainly would carry more weight if you told people they coul do whatever they wanted to intruders.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭de5p0i1er


    Kill the scum bag. I've met ppl who've had there homes robbed while they were upstairs sleeping. That freaked the whole family out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭bryaner


    I have a lovely 1.5 foot bat at the side of the bed and a very bright torch
    bam bam right between the eyes..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    God help anyone who breaks into my house when im home!

    Lets just say that it wouldnt be the only break to happen that day!

    ...Iv got a Chuck Norris under my bed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 852 ✭✭✭moonpurple


    in reply to OP

    if I have to coordinate with anyone in my home in an unforeseen manner, with nefarious intent, and projecting a hostile vibe, they will be struck until they stop moving


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,493 ✭✭✭DazMarz


    A man's home is his castle. And he (and any of his family) should have the right to defend said castle by whatever means. There should be no such thing as excessive force. These drugged up scumbags that break into people's homes have no respect or regard for anything and deserve no mercy.

    If these scum and thugs end up in a coffin or a wheelchair due to actions taken by civilians against them, so be it. They should be locked up and left to rot in prisons anyway.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    If someone breaks into your home with the intention of harming you then you should be able to kill them. If the intention is to rob you and you kill them without just cause then you probably should get into a spot of bother.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 206 ✭✭AlmostFamous


    I think people should be allowed to protect their own home with maximum force.

    I feel it should also be within your rights to protect your neighbour's property with maximum force.
    Man Kills Suspected Intruders While Protecting Neighbor's Property

    Texans are debating if a man who said he was defending his neighbor's property when he shot and killed two suspected burglars was within his rights. Texas state law allows people to use deadly force in order to protect their property. And so far, Pasadena , Texas, resident Joe Horn has not been charged in the shooting deaths of Manuel De Jesus, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30, earlier this week.
    Horn, 61 ran out of his house when he suspected the men were attempting to burglarize his neighbor's home. He called 911 to alert authorities of the situation, and the conversation has been preserved on tape.
    Joe Horn: Hurry up man. Catch these guys, will ya? 'Cause I ain't gonna. I'm gonna be honest with ya. I'm not gonna let 'em go. I'm not gonna let them get away with this.
    The dispatcher begged him to wait for police instead of taking any action.
    Horn: You hear the shotgun clicking and I'm going.
    911 Dispatcher: Don't go outside.
    On the recording, Horn can be heard threatening to shoot the men if they move.
    Horn: Move, you're dead.

    Still, Horn's attorney insists his client is not an out-of-control vigilante.
    "Joe is not a vigilante," said the attorney, Tom Lambright. "He's not a Rambo. He is exactly the opposite of that. He's a nice, loving family man."
    But Ortiz's wife, Diamond Morgan, said she believes Horn used excessive force.
    "[Horn] said that he feared for his life. But he made the 911 call. And the dispatcher kept telling him don't go outside," she said. "I feel he wanted to shoot them anyway."
    Police said a grand jury will determine if what Horn did was illegal.

    Meanwhile, he has expressed some regret about what occurred.

    "The events of that day will weigh heavily on me for the rest of my life. My thoughts go out to the loved ones of the deceased," Horn said in a statement to ABC News.

    This case was an interesting in terms of rights of protectinng your neighbour's property.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Could the Texan not claim that he was protecting his property as his neighbours had the loan of his hedge clippers and he thought it was going to be stolen.............


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    What slasher said. (Oh the username irony ;))

    Also I' amazed at the number of keyboard warriors on here who are so sure they are infintely capable of besting an intruder in a scuffle. You could well come off the worser. Letting the thief escape could be the safer option.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    What slasher said. (Oh the username irony ;))

    Also I' amazed at the number of keyboard warriors on here who are so sure they are infintely capable of besting an intruder in a scuffle. You could well come off the worser. Letting the thief escape could be the safer option.

    what you should do is sit him down and talk to him , find out about his childhood , did he feel that the single parent allowance his mother received and the 3 bedroom apartment were sufficient for their needs or did cause him to have anger and feel unfulfilled , or perhaps his parents are in severe negative equity and the government are not giving them what they are entitled too ie a complete debt write off .
    promise that as well as paying his unemployment and housing every week from your tax you will also give him several thousand euro every year to help him cope better in this inhospitable isle
    OR
    just shoot him twice in the head


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    danbohan wrote: »
    what you should do is sit him down and talk to him , find out about his childhood , did he feel that the single parent allowance his mother received and the 3 bedroom apartment were sufficient for their needs or did cause him to have anger and feel unfulfilled , or perhaps his parents are in severe negative equity and the government are not giving them what they are entitled too ie a complete debt write off .
    promise that as well as paying his unemployment and housing every week from your tax you will also give him several thousand euro every year to help him cope better in this inhospitable isle
    OR
    just shoot him twice in the head

    Have a large cache of guns to hand about your house do you.....or do you just carry one at all times ??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,561 ✭✭✭Rhyme


    Laws for big stuff (theft, B&E, assault etc) are put in place to protect people, someone breaking into your home to steal from you or harm you forfeits that protection. It's up to the imposed person (homeowner) what lengths they wish to go to 'protect their castle'.

    Honestly, I'd prefer to call the police and then get the burglar out of my home with the least fuss possible. If I felt my family were at risk from a burglar, I wouldn't hesitate to damage them, seriously if necessary.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,463 ✭✭✭Kiwi_knock


    I think if they go up stairs then you should be allowed to defend your home using force. Most robberys last less than a few minutes and are not targeting people. However if they go upstairs that is inviting a confrontation with the home owner.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,853 ✭✭✭ragg


    Iim the first to admit, im not really into agression. One thing is for sure though, if someone is my house im gonna attack. It'd be "accidental" in the eyes of the law. I have something close to the bed that will blind when thrown if it hits the eyes and then im gonna attack, I have some sharp scissors near the bed that will be used & im not gonna stop till one of us is dead.

    Having been robbed years ago when i lived in the city, knowing they were in the bedroom, has made me think about this


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Kiwi_knock wrote: »
    I think if they go up stairs then you should be allowed to defend your home using force.

    What if its a bungalow ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    Have a large cache of guns to hand about your house do you.....or do you just carry one at all times ??


    i tried using two at a time , gave it up, nowadays i find one much more effective


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,383 ✭✭✭✭Birneybau


    How far should self defense in your own home go?

    Probably to your front gate and back wall...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭Gary4279


    Knock him out. put him in the boot of the car and drive him up the mountains. tie him to a tree and put a bowl of dog food (aldi brand) beside him. if he survives, he deserves to live.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,644 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    What if it was a 12-year old out for ****s and giggles?
    Does he deserve death?

    Nope, but that's not the bigger concern. Does a homeowner who has done nothing wrong at all, be it out of malice or Ss and Gs, deserve to be placed in a disadvantageous position because he isn't aware of the motivation of the person in his home?

    How many homes did you break into as a 12-year-old anyway!?

    NTM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,859 ✭✭✭✭Sharpshooter


    ROCKMAN wrote: »
    NICE PLAN

    but if you as the home owner have to tackle [kick the siht out of] an intruder, make sure where ever it happens hall ,kitchen etc that you tell the cops in started in our bedroom.As far as I Known your self defence rights are much better once an intruder enters our bedroom. ,

    Say what now!?:confused:

    To clarify, I do not share a bedroom with ROCKMAN!:eek:


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