Would you run your oaks winner in Irish derby

ComplyOrDie

I have a question i would like to ask. Suppose you owned a high class 3yo filly that won the English oaks would you be brave enough to supplement her for the Irish derby or would you let her take her chance in the Irish oaks.

To be honest I would take the gamble, if she was good I think 3lb should be sufficient to beat the colts. In fact if she won the English oaks I would be ecstatic but also wondering, why I hadn't entered her in the Epsom derby.

Looking at times of previous Irish oaks v Irish derby i got a few surprises in 2006 Dylan Thomas was slower than Alexandrova from 2004-2006 the fillies clocked faster times that the colts

What do you think?
Would you dare

Cantoris

Salsabil, who won the Oaks, beat Deploy in the Irish Derby. God that must have been in the early 90s. She was a super filly who won english Guineas and Oaks before coming to Ireland. Think she bombed out in the Arc after. At the Curragh, I was at the furlong pole. I had a decent bet on her and she went whoosh by the leader and won well.

UrbanSea

ComplyOrDie wrote: »

I have a question i would like to ask. Suppose you owned a high class 3yo filly that won the English oaks would you be brave enough to supplement her for the Irish derby or would you let her take her chance in the Irish oaks.

To be honest I would take the gamble, if she was good I think 3lb should be sufficient to beat the colts. In fact if she won the English oaks I would be ecstatic but also wondering, why I hadn't entered her in the Epsom derby.

Looking at times of previous Irish oaks v Irish derby i got a few surprises in 2006 Dylan Thomas was slower than Alexandrova from 2004-2006 the fillies clocked faster times that the colts

What do you think?
Would you dare

The Epsom Derby isn't open to fillies

Whyno

I remember either Kieran Fallon or Michael Stoute saying in an interview one time that it really takes an exceptional filly to beat a colt at 3 years old in top flight company. It was stated that at 3 a filly is still only developing and are much more the finished article at 4 years old whih is when they would prefer to take on the colts.

Crumbs

greetings wrote: »

The Epsom Derby isn't open to fillies

Yes it is.

Godolphin ran Cape Verdi in the Derby 12 years ago and she went off favourite. I'm not sure that any filly has run in it since then. Fifinella, in 1916, was the last filly to win the Epsom Derby.

UrbanSea

Crumbs wrote: »

Yes it is.

Godolphin ran Cape Verdi in the Derby 12 years ago and she went off favourite. I'm not sure that any filly has run in it since then. Fifinella, in 1916, was the last filly to win the Epsom Derby.

WTF,who was the last filly to run in it

Gaunty

greetings wrote: »

WTF,who was the last filly to run in it

The answer is right there in the quote. Cape verde.

westlife2010

maybe with an exceptional filly and poor lot of colts....... but the fillies look a moderate lot this year

Morgans

Makes more sense to run in the Irish Derby rather than Epsom, as often, not always, the fields are small and Ballydoyle pacemakers/third choice often sneak into the frame. If you have one that is good enough to win, it should be considered.

There were a lot of ante-post punters pissed off when Cape Verdi went to the Derby and not the Oaks.

gscully

On Tuesday, the BBC showed a split-screen comparison between the Epsom Derby and the Oaks and there seemed to be a huge difference (6-7 lengths at least).

Considering Workforce has been entered in the Irish Derby, it would be madness to enter a filly in it.

Only an exceptional filly in the Zarkava mould could stick it to the colts. In light of that, how amazing was her Arc win considering she was taking on stallions?

Morgans

Its a shame that Cape Blanco and today, At First Sight, have done absolutely nothing for Workforce's form. The likes of Motivator and Authorized were talked up as superstars after their Derby wins and were stuffed afterwards. (Not to mention North Light and Kris Kin from the Stoute stable) Any filly, not necessarily this year, that connections feel its good enough to be placed in the Irish Derby should definitely take its chance.

the groutch

I'd say in 2004 Ouija Board would have probably won had she run in it, North Light and Grey Swallow were hardly world-beaters


although I think part of the reason few fillies run in it is that it comes too soon, 3yo fillies would probably want longer between races, hence the irish oaks being run 3 weeks after the derby
I havent checked, but I expect that none of the epsom oaks runners were at royal ascot this week

mailburner

sariskas time in last years oaks was faster than
sea the stars derby win

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

gscully

the groutch wrote: »

I'd say in 2004 Ouija Board would have probably won had she run in it, North Light and Grey Swallow were hardly world-beaters


although I think part of the reason few fillies run in it is that it comes too soon, 3yo fillies would probably want longer between races, hence the irish oaks being run 3 weeks after the derby
I havent checked, but I expect that none of the epsom oaks runners were at royal ascot this week

Off the top of my head, Timepiece ran in a listed handicap on Wednesday and won.

mailburner wrote: »

sariskas time in last years oaks was faster than
sea the stars derby win

I believe this has been debated in another thread and the conclusion was that the track dried out a little overnight. Surely you're not suggesting Sariska would've beaten STS in that Derby?

Morgans

Balanchine. Took me a while to remember it, but I knew there was another.

LutherBlissett

Well, Workforce isn't running, and most of the colts who were tipped to excel as 3yos just haven't done the business. This year, the race appears quite open.

It does seem that the Irish derby is less hard on fillies than the Epsom one - as far as I remember, Cape Verdi got knocked about quite badly, and never really recovered from her exertions at Epsom. The Irish derby has the advantage of ordinarily having a smaller field, so the chance of being caught up in barging/ being cut off at the rails is smaller.

So generally yes, I would seriously consider running my Oaks winner in the Irish Derby. When it's an open race, as this year's seems, I would give it even stronger consideration.