Cost of making a bog standard will

rilly99

There are some posting about this but no defenite answers as it can get complicated depending on the estate etc

I want to make a will with my wife - have two kids- house and not much more( in fact just aload of bills)

Just want standard you get mine I get yours if we die and when both die kids get half each -

has anyone in Dublin got one done recently and if so how much ? I don't have solicitor as such and what info do they need

someone told me the credit unions used to do them FOC??

MARIA O

Hi

Solicitiors don't charge for making wills. If you wish they will hold onto the original for safe keeping which is necessary as banks no longer provide this service. Eventually they will be paid by the work generated after your demise.

Just call into your local solicitors and get it done and dusted and then forget about it knowing your wishes are sorted for your possessions etc.

rilly99

Thanks for that seems straight forward -will arrange

enry

MARIA O wrote: »

Hi

Solicitiors don't charge for making wills. If you wish they will hold onto the original for safe keeping which is necessary as banks no longer provide this service. Eventually they will be paid by the work generated after your demise.

Just call into your local solicitors and get it done and dusted and then forget about it knowing your wishes are sorted for your possessions etc.

this is simply not the case,
prob charge around 100 euros. should charge a lot more to be honest.

Delancey

The Law Society used to run an annual Make A Will Week where in return for a charitable donation solicitors would do your will for free. Anyone know does this still operate ?

martin bren

Hi,

Yes they do run make a will week and I know many Solicitors who do wills for free and some who ask you to make a donation to charity in return so there is no need to go to any who see a need to charge.

jacko1

virtually no solicitor charges for making a will

If someone does, then tell them where to go and find another solicitor

maidhc

jacko1 wrote: »

virtually no solicitor charges for making a will

If someone does, then tell them where to go and find another solicitor

Eh, no. Why would you spend a hour advising someone and have two consulatations for nothing? We charge, not much mind, and less than a GP visit, but if you don't charge people don't take the process as seriously as they need to.

blueythebear

jacko1 wrote: »

virtually no solicitor charges for making a will

If someone does, then tell them where to go and find another solicitor

Why would a solicitor spend time in a meeting with a client, then go about drafting a will (using the benefit of their legal training and expertise to do so) and storing it? Not to mention the possibility of being on the line for a professional negligence action if there is an issue with the will later.

Of course they charge. They all charge. The only reason I can think of as to where they wouldn't charge is if you have had dealings with them before in another context. i.e. you are a regular customer and they do you a favour.

nuac

Yes solicitors do charge for advising on and drafting a will. Why ever not?

A standard will be about €150 in my firm - more if there are complications.

dats_right

I'm a solicitor and my firm would charge aproximately the same as Nuac's. Very reasonable in the circumstances.

martin bren

Rilly99,

A straight forward make a will pack can be obtain in Easons you simply follow the instructings with witnesses etc. or you can go to one of the very good solicitors who do not charge for make a will. As you can see from the original post cost does seem to be a factor so saying 100 or 150 Euro is reasonable is not the answer the OP was looking for and yes we do know whats involved in make a will and how important it is to do so. But, as we have already said many firm provide this service for free and obviously some who posted here charge.

enry

jacko1 wrote: »

virtually no solicitor charges for making a will

If someone does, then tell them where to go and find another solicitor

why would you come out with this bull? do you know any solicitors?

my advice is if you can get a will drafted for free, go for it but remember you get what you pay for in this world. by the time anyone finds out whether your will is any good or not you wont have to worry about it.

detective

I'm not a solicitor and I'm not necessarily on the side of the solicitors here but why would a solicitor make a will for free? Why would anybody do anything for free. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I'm baffled by this? Do solicitors make wills for free and if so why?

FreudianSlippers

detective wrote: »

I'm not a solicitor and I'm not necessarily on the side of the solicitors here but why would a solicitor make a will for free? Why would anybody do anything for free. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I'm baffled by this? Do solicitors make wills for free and if so why?

I've never heard of it unless, as blueythebear described above, you are a regular at the solicitor.

detective

When I was drawing down my mortgage my solicitor said he'd do it for free but obviously that was because he was getting the conveyancing money but surely you can't just stroll in to a solicitor and get a will drawn up for free? By the way I wouldn't go back to my conveyancing solicitor again so I'd rather pay another solicitor.

martin bren

Hi,

Any Solicitiors I have had dealing with do wills for free, and store same House Deeds etc. for free as on your demise they handle the estate and this is where they receive ample payment. Many support make a will for free week.

Delancey

martin bren wrote: »

Hi,

Any Solicitiors I have had dealing with do wills for free, and store same House Deeds etc. for free as on your demise they handle the estate and this is where they receive ample payment. Many support make a will for free week.

Or if thery're really lucky you will nominate them to act as Executor - kerchinggg

nuac

Many solicitors do not want to be executors of wills. This is mainly due to taxation and regularatory reasons.

Delancey

nuac wrote: »

Many solicitors do not want to be executors of wills. This is mainly due to taxation and regularatory reasons.

Thats interesting , I had understood that acting as Executor could generate quite decent fees

McCrack

There are fees in extracting the probate but like Nuac has pointed out acting as exectutor is onerous and can leave a solicitor wide open to be sued.

Mary Hairy

McCrack wrote: »

There are fees in extracting the probate but like Nuac has pointed out acting as exectutor is onerous and can leave a solicitor wide open to be sued.

Particularly since this case. Standard advice to solicitors now is, do not act as executor.

http://www.courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/aad4b657a69cad3c802576f0003772db?OpenDocument&Highlight=0,condon

Delancey

Hmmm , being an Executor looks something of a poisoned chalice.....:(

McCrack

delancey42 wrote: »

Hmmm , being an Executor looks something of a poisoned chalice.....:(

Only in situations where the executor is acting in a professional capacity (solicitor). That case and what it sets would not apply to a named executor who is not acting in a professional capacity which the great majority of executors are.

manana

Do you want the solicitor to handle the probate and pay thousands for what you can easily do yourself?

When the solicitor is making your will (whether for free under the Make A Will Week promotion or for payment) be clear if you want them to handle the probate.( carrying out the will on death). This is what many solicitors call with delight "gold in my safe". it's very easy for the lay person to do their own probate. The state funded Probabte office couldn't be more helpful and welcoming of the lay person. You'll find that you have to source all the documents for the solicitor so you've most of the work done anyway.

If a solictor does this job for you it generally costs a percentage of the estate. It could run to thousands. It is money well spent to use the services of a solicitor to make a will BUT you do not have to have him/her written into the will to carry out probate. Leave it open for your executors to decide - not the solicitor.

When i was drawing up my will with the solicitor he put himself down for the probate in the will ready for me to sign - despite my specifically asking his office not to do this. I got this clause taken out. Caveat emptor!

pathway33

delancey42 wrote: »

The Law Society used to run an annual Make A Will Week where in return for a charitable donation solicitors would do your will for free. Anyone know does this still operate ?

Anyone know when this Make a Will Week is on next?

i_love_toast

manana wrote: »

Do you want the solicitor to handle the probate and pay thousands for what you can easily do yourself?

When the solicitor is making your will (whether for free under the Make A Will Week promotion or for payment) be clear if you want them to handle the probate.( carrying out the will on death). This is what many solicitors call with delight "gold in my safe". it's very easy for the lay person to do their own probate. The state funded Probabte office couldn't be more helpful and welcoming of the lay person. You'll find that you have to source all the documents for the solicitor so you've most of the work done anyway.

If a solictor does this job for you it generally costs a percentage of the estate. It could run to thousands. It is money well spent to use the services of a solicitor to make a will BUT you do not have to have him/her written into the will to carry out probate. Leave it open for your executors to decide - not the solicitor.

When i was drawing up my will with the solicitor he put himself down for the probate in the will ready for me to sign - despite my specifically asking his office not to do this. I got this clause taken out. Caveat emptor!

that is very interesting reading. Our nanna past away back in April and had her savings go to probate. She had just over 30k in savings to be shared among her three children. The will came back from probate and the solicitor said that the fees are 6k. My relatives seem to be gob smacked by this. One fifth of my nannas saving go on solicitors fees??

Is this normal costs for probate fees that solicitors charge because it seem god damm expensive??

pathway33

I know that a named beneficiary cannot be a witness, but...

If I as a single man with no children make a will leaving everything to my father, and this will is witnessed by my brother and sister, can my brother and sister then be beneficiaries if myself and my father die at the same time e.g car accident.

speedfight

In this scenario your estate cannot vest in your father who is presumed to have died at the same time as you subject to contrary evidence. Your bequest cannot therefore transfer to your father and the will has no effect. The benefit falls under the rules of succession which in your scenario fall to your bother and sister. The will has no effect so any issue regarding witnessing/mental competency is moot and of no consequence.

This is why a well drafted will is worth the money. You may have fallen out with your bother and wish your sister to benefit solely or the dogs home or local publican. A well drafted will can provide for many ifs and buts to ensure the ultimate wishes are carried out.

pathway33

Can a spouse be a witness to a will even if they are not a named beneficiary?

Our man in Havana

No. A spouse is a beneficiary regardless. Any will not naming the spouse is invalid anyways.

pathway33

Thanks. But a son or daughter could be a witness to a will which bequeaths 100% of the estate from their father to their mother? If the mother dies first, the son / daughter witness will then inherit under the rules of succession when their father dies (if no new will is made) as outlined by Speedfight?

NewHillel

manana wrote: »

It is money well spent to use the services of a solicitor to make a will BUT you do not have to have him/her written into the will to carry out probate. Leave it open for your executors to decide - not the solicitor.

When i was drawing up my will with the solicitor he put himself down for the probate in the will ready for me to sign - despite my specifically asking his office not to do this. I got this clause taken out. Caveat emptor!

If a will drawn up by a solicitor proves invalid, causing financial loss to the bequeathee, is there any redress or is it still a case of Caveat Emptor??

Mocrie14

I'm married with two kids and have no will but I presume if I drop dead tomorrow my wife gets everything and then God forbid if she died everything would be split between the kids? So why do I need a will at this point?

Jo King

Bazbu wrote: »

I'm married with two kids and have no will but I presume if I drop dead tomorrow my wife gets everything and then God forbid if she died everything would be split between the kids? So why do I need a will at this point?

Not correct. Your kids would be entitled to a share. Your wife or some other person would have to take out a grant of administration in order to administer your estate, which would involve a High Court application. Until that was done your banks accounts would be frozen and there would be difficulty in dealing with your assets. Remember too that you and your wife could die in the same incident. If you do not have executors appointed there would be dreadful trouble for your kids.
It is highly irresponsible of you not to have a will in place. It costs little or nothing to do and would save an enormous amount of hassle and possibly hardship.

Mocrie14

Jo King wrote: »

Not correct. Your kids would be entitled to a share. Your wife or some other person would have to take out a grant of administration in order to administer your estate, which would involve a High Court application. Until that was done your banks accounts would be frozen and there would be difficulty in dealing with your assets. Remember too that you and your wife could die in the same incident. If you do not have executors appointed there would be dreadful trouble for your kids.
It is highly irresponsible of you not to have a will in place. It costs little or nothing to do and would save an enormous amount of hassle and possibly hardship.

Ok but would my wife not automatically get everything if I die?

Our man in Havana

No.

She would get 2 thirds and the kids would get the remaining third.

Jo King

Bazbu wrote: »

Ok but would my wife not automatically get everything if I die?

What if your wife dies first? What if you die simultaneously or in circumstances where it is unclear who died first? There would be no end of hassle for your kids or whoever was left to try and sort out your affairs.

dhoun

enry wrote: »

this is simply not the case,
prob charge around 100 euros. should charge a lot more to be honest.

That's rubbish. Why should they charge a lot more?

bath handle

dhoun wrote: »

enry wrote: »

this is simply not the case,
prob charge around 100 euros. should charge a lot more to be honest.

That's rubbish. Why should they charge a lot more?

Because it is not economic to do it at that figure. There is an increasing trend of executors coming into solicitors offices, demanding that the will ge given to them, taking it away and administering the estate themselves or getting another solicitor firm to do it.

johnnyskeleton

dhoun wrote: »

enry wrote: »

this is simply not the case,
prob charge around 100 euros. should charge a lot more to be honest.

That's rubbish. Why should they charge a lot more?

That recent poet case just goes to show that a relatively small mistake can lead to big liability. Of course, he didn't have a solicitor hence the mistake but if a will leaves a couple hundred grand to person x and the will is found to be invalid due to a solicitors negligence, that's a couple hundred grand of a claim against tr solicitor

JuliusCaesar

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That recent poet case

What poet case?

On the original topic, I had a will made with a solicitor many years ago after my child was born. (I'm a single parent.)

The main thing I wanted to ensure was to appoint guardians for the child in the event of my demise, and that money from my life insurance would be used for maintenance. I had heard some horrible stories of a single mother dying and the young child being passed around the family from pillar to post - the sibs all either had their own kids or were single and childless - anyway, nobody wanted the poor child and after a couple of years of being passed around, it was given into fostering.

The second thing I wanted to ensure was that the child wouldn't get hold of the money until age 25. Again, I'd heard a story about teenagers inheriting a house and everything when their parents died in a car crash. They frittered the money away on all sort of games and then sold the house, as they wanted to live in different place - and then frittered that away too.

So I felt the money I put into making a watertight will was well worth it.

coylemj

bath handle wrote: »

Because it is not economic to do it at that figure. There is an increasing trend of executors coming into solicitors offices, demanding that the will ge given to them, taking it away and administering the estate themselves or getting another solicitor firm to do it.

Proper order if they do, solicitors typically try to charge a % of the estate as their fees for doing probate which is outrageous. The fee for making the will should cover the solicitor's costs in drafting the will, revising it to the client's specifications and doing the signing i.e. it should be a standalone transaction and not related to who gets to do the probate.

You seem to be implying that the fee is charged based on an assumption that the same solicitor will get to do the probate, if that was the case then solicitors should pay clients for drawing up a will, not the other way round!

An aunt of mine who died in 2004 made a will a few years previously and without any instruction on her part the solicitor included a clause making out that it was her specific wish that he be used to do the probate. As the named executor I took advice on the matter and was told that the clause had no legal effect so I did the probate myself and saved a packet. It was before the crash so her property value meant that the solicitor was going to get several thousand euros for doing what was a pretty simple exercise in paper pushing and letter writing, no thanks.

bath handle

coylemj wrote: »

bath handle wrote: »

Because it is not economic to do it at that figure. There is an increasing trend of executors coming into solicitors offices, demanding that the will ge given to them, taking it away and administering the estate themselves or getting another solicitor firm to do it.

Proper order if they do, solicitors typically try to charge a % of the estate as their fees for doing probate which is outrageous. The fee for making the will should cover the solicitor's costs in drafting the will, revising it to the client's specifications and doing the signing i.e. it should be a standalone transaction and not related to who gets to do the probate.

You seem to be implying that the fee is charged based on an assumption that the same solicitor will get to do thed probate, if that was the case then solicitors should pay clients for drawing up a will, not the other way round!

An aunt of mine who died in 2004 made a will a few years previously and without any instruction on her part the solicitor included a clause making out that it was her specific wish that he be used to do the probate. As the named executor I took advice on the matter and was told that the clause had no legal effect so I did the probate myself and saved a packet. It was before the crash so her property value meant that the solicitor was going to get several thousand euros for doing what was a pretty simple exercise in paper pushing and letter writing, no thanks.

That is exactly why I said the fees being charged for making wills are too low.

johnnyskeleton

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

That recent poet case

What poet case?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1202/1224308473738.html

he did the will himself an made a mess of it. Aside from some gifts which dent take effect, the estate probably has to bear the legal costs.

dermot_sheehan

Our man in Havana wrote: »

No. A spouse is a beneficiary regardless. Any will not naming the spouse is invalid anyways.

I'd disagree with this.

A will that does not name a spouse as a beneficiary is not invalid. A spouse still has the right to exercise his or her legal right under s. 111 of the Succession Act 1965 to take half the estate or appropriate the family home and contents under s. 56 of the Succession Act towards satisfaction of his or her legal right share.

This of course is provided a spouse hasn't waived his or her legal right share in writing, hasn't deserted the other spouse, hasn't had the succession rights extinguished by a judicial separation order and hasn't been convicted of a serious criminal offence against the other spouse or any children.

A spouse acting as a witness does not invalidate the will, it only invalidates any "any devise, bequest, estate, interest, gift, or appointment, of or affecting any property" in their favour (s. 82 Succession Act). Their s. 111 rights act by operation of law and still exist.

ABajaninCork

Don't Credit Unions provide a will service FOC? Mine does providing you have a certain amount of money saved.

nuac

afaik not too many CUs do will foc or otherwise.

There is always the risk of disappointed beneficiaries claiming that the CU or its employees were negligent.

coylemj

nuac wrote: »

afaik not too many CUs do will foc or otherwise.

There is always the risk of disappointed beneficiaries claiming that the CU or its employees were negligent.

Negligent? How?

My aunt forgot to include me in her will so it's the fault of the person who helped her draw up the will. :eek:

It's not up to the solicitor or anyone else to 'suggest' who should or should not be included in a will, only that in the case of a lawyer it would be expected that a married person making a will would be informed of the minimum provision that has to be made for a spouse.

It cuts both ways. If the will disburses money in all directions, a close relative could in turn claim that he would have gotten a larger legacy if all the cousins in America hadn't been suggested to the testator by the person drawing up the will.

Jo King

coylemj wrote: »

Negligent? How?

My aunt forgot to include me in her will so it's the fault of the person who helped her draw up the will. :eek:

It's not up to the solicitor or anyone else to 'suggest' who should or should not be included in a will, only that in the case of a lawyer it would be expected that a married person making a will would be informed of the minimum provision that has to be made for a spouse.

It cuts both ways. If the will disburses money in all directions, a close relative could in turn claim that he would have gotten a larger legacy if all the cousins in America hadn't been suggested to the testator by the person drawing up the will.

Here is one example. A solicitor said Joan into her dictaphone. The secretary typed John. What happened when Joan sought her inheritance?
Take another.
An attempt is made to ensure that a child does not inherit until the age of 25. The clause is badly drafted so instead of the money being put in trust it goes to the trustee.
An attempt can be made to change a will after it is drafted. The codicil is not properly witnessed. Result the putative beneficiary does not inherit.
There are a myriad number of ways in which the drafter of a will may be negligent, none of which are to do with suggesting beneficiaries. AT lease if the will is drafted by someone with professional indemnity insurance there may be some redress.

nuac

re Credit Unions drawing wills ( or arranging for a solicitor to draw them )
Why bother?


Wills are often contested, and solicitors have been sued because a beneficiary considered there was negligence. Such actions can arise from a range of matters e.g

1. testators instructions not available, or reasons for not complying with them not recorded, or full details of testator's marital status and family not recorded.

2. testator not of full capacity

3, testator under undue influence from a particular beneficiary
in a reasonably sized CU there could be 40 to 50 people involved as staff, committee members, directors etc. If a disappointed beneficiary finds that a person connected with the CU or someone closely connected to such person has benefitted to the detriment of someone else, CU may find itself a defendant in a Probate action

4. provisions in will contrary to legislation

5. will not properly executed or witnessed

6. will referring to other documents attached/unattached
papers stapled to original will

7. uncertain bequests - "my niece Mary" - turns out there are three nieces of that name.

etc etc

I really do not know why Credit Unions would go into will making, either f.o.c or for payment, especially as regulatory requirements on CU;s are increasing by the week..