Why not go to bord gais 10% cheaper?

slavetothegrind

Unbelievably i have just answered the door to a bord gais electricity salesman!!!!

So he is offering me instant changeover and a 10 per cent saving on my usage bill.

What have esb got to offer me in order to keep me as a customer?

Great to see you on here, very progressive for a state agency!

Electric Ireland: Pat

Hi Slavetothegrind

ESBCS electricity prices are regularly reviewed, set and agreed with the CER.(the Commission for Energy Regulation) ESB is not allowed discount from that rate, other suppliers are allowed charge as they wish.

The CER has decided that ESB will be fully deregulated for business customers from 1st October 2010 and for residential customers when ESB’s market share reduces by 40%. This is a significant milestone in the development of a competitive retail electricity market in Ireland and is a positive step for all customers. We are looking forward to competing as a fully deregulated supplier. At this point we cannot make any specific comments regarding future electricity prices.
We are committed to continually improving and enhancing the service we offer customers for e.g:
• Online Billing launched in October 2008
• Launch of useful services such as online calculator and energy efficient house
• We offer multiple ways for you to contact us: eg Phone (agent & IVR), online, post, and now Boards.ie etc
• We offer multiple payment options to satisfy many different needs (Direct Debit, Laser, Cheque, Post Office, Paypoint, PayZone, A.I.B, Bank of Ireland and Billpay.ie)
• We provide advice and solutions on Energy Efficiency to encourage customers to use electricity efficiently to manage their electricity costs and protect the environment.
• We provide Safety information to ensure you enjoy the benefits of electricity safely.
• We are currently running trials on the provision of Smart metering

Regards

Pat

foggy_lad

slavetothegrind wrote: »

Unbelievably i have just answered the door to a bord gais electricity salesman!!!!

So he is offering me instant changeover and a 10 per cent saving on my usage bill.

What have esb got to offer me in order to keep me as a customer?

Great to see you on here, very progressive for a state agency!

bord gais billing is all over the place! they send bills out late on a regular basis and refuse to amend the direct debit payment dates to allow the 14days notice of the direct debit. this is the main reason i would not trust them to manage my electricity account!

gizmo555

foggy_lad wrote: »

bord gais billing is all over the place! they send bills out late on a regular basis and refuse to amend the direct debit payment dates to allow the 14days notice of the direct debit. this is the main reason i would not trust them to manage my electricity account!

You can get 10% off the ESB's rates from Bord Gais without paying by direct debit.

For customers who pay by DD, the discount is 12%, but you don't have to take that option if you're uncomfortable with it.

To the OP - the benefits Pat describes are available from all the suppliers in the market, and really switching to Bord Gais (or Airtricity) is a complete no-brainer.

Baron Floyd

ESB CS: Pat wrote: »

for residential customers when ESB’s market share reduces by 40%.

If I am reading this incorrectly please let me know, You wont be deregulated for residential customers (and then allowed to be competitive with your pricing) until your loose 40% Market share?

So if we were to leave ESB now you would hit that target all the sooner?

Max Power1

amatheum wrote: »

So if we were to leave ESB now you would hit that target all the sooner?

Thats correct. (the relevant directive is available on the CER website).

Thats the idea behind the directive also, to introduce genuine competitors into the supply market, and to allow sufficient time in regulation to remove ESB cs economy of scale advantage.

Edit: I am in no way affiliated to ESB, and it would be interesting to hear an official reply from ESB CS re the cer directive vis a vis deregulation and their views on losing customers in order to be deregulated.

Electric Ireland: Pat

Hi guys a few points,
I can’t really speak for the other Suppliers we are here to answer questions on ESBCS. I know the merits and demerits of the various Suppliers are fully discussed on Boards in various sections, mainly Consumer issues.
In relation to CS losing customers I suppose that I can only repeat that CER has said that we will be fully deregulated for Residential customers when our market share hits 40%, at this point we really can’t make any specific comments regarding future price.
Regards

Pat

copeyhagen

gizmo555 wrote: »

To the OP - the benefits Pat describes are available from all the suppliers in the market, and really switching to Bord Gais (or Airtricity) is a complete no-brainer.

esb arnt allowed to compete until they have lost 40% of the residential market, which isnt TOO far away.

then they can charge what they like.

let all the fools go to other suppliers so we can hit the 40%!!

gizmo555

copeyhagen wrote: »

esb arnt allowed to compete until they have lost 40% of the residential market, which isnt TOO far away.

then they can charge what they like.

let all the fools go to other suppliers so we can hit the 40%!!

When the ESB is free to set its own prices and if they are then cheaper than other suppliers, we can always switch back to them. In the meantime, why are we fools for not voluntarily paying between 10% and 13% more for our electricity than we need to?

I've saved about €220 in the past year by switching from the ESB. The lights still come on and the kettle still boils when I flick the switch. I don't know what my current supplier's customer service is like, because I've never had any reason to be in contact with them. What possible reason could there be for staying with the ESB and not keeping that cash in my pocket?

I.K.Brunel

Max Power1 wrote: »

Edit: I am in no way affiliated to ESB, and it would be interesting to hear an official reply from ESB CS re the cer directive vis a vis deregulation and their views on losing customers in order to be deregulated.

The views of all suppliers including ESB CS are readily available to the public. Check out the CER wwebsite where they published their directive and copies of all the replies received from the various interested parties to the consultation paper.

Below is a press release issued by ESB on 21st April (taken from the ESB website) but it doesn't express any direct views on customer losses:

ESB welcomes the CER decision on the "Roadmap to Deregulation"

ESB welcomes the CER decision on the "Roadmap to Deregulation" for the retail electricity market. This is a significant milestone in the development of a competitive retail electricity market in Ireland and is a positive step for customers.
The CER has decided that ESB will be fully deregulated for business customers from 1st October 2010 and for residential customers when its market share reduces to 60%.
ESB looks forward to competing as a fully deregulated supplier. It cannot, however, make any specific comments regarding future electricity prices at this point.
The CER has also decided that ESB must provide a commitment to rebranding its supply business as part of the deregulation process. Changing a long-established brand is a challenging and complex undertaking that requires careful planning and implementation in order to avoid customer confusion and uncertainty.

dagpoker.com

copeyhagen wrote: »

esb arnt allowed to compete until they have lost 40% of the residential market, which isnt TOO far away.

then they can charge what they like.

let all the fools go to other suppliers so we can hit the 40%!!

Over the past 18 months i have saved over €750 by moving to Bord Gáis,Can you explain how that makes me a "fool" in my eyes if i save that money surely it makes me a smart person

starbelgrade

ESB CS: Pat wrote: »

We are committed to continually improving and enhancing the service we offer customers for e.g:
• Online Billing launched in October 2008
• Launch of useful services such as online calculator and energy efficient house
• We offer multiple ways for you to contact us: eg Phone (agent & IVR), online, post, and now Boards.ie etc
• We offer multiple payment options to satisfy many different needs (Direct Debit, Laser, Cheque, Post Office, Paypoint, PayZone, A.I.B, Bank of Ireland and Billpay.ie)
• We provide advice and solutions on Energy Efficiency to encourage customers to use electricity efficiently to manage their electricity costs and protect the environment.
• We provide Safety information to ensure you enjoy the benefits of electricity safely.
• We are currently running trials on the provision of Smart metering

So you are saying that all that blurb is worth paying an extra 10% plus for?!?!!!!

starfish12

Nope starbelgrade, read the post, he's saying that CER set prices & esb aren't allowed to reduce their rate, its all about the government creating artifical competition in the market place

daisy21

copeyhagen wrote: »

esb arnt allowed to compete until they have lost 40% of the residential market, which isnt TOO far away.

then they can charge what they like.

let all the fools go to other suppliers so we can hit the 40%!!

I would hope you are not referring to people who want to save some money by going to a cheaper supplier as fools!! No wonder ESB are over priced with the wages they pay. look at the papers on Sunday where one sees the CEO earnnig well over 400k per annum. Likewise knowing people at otehr tiers within the company they do recignise that they have good wages and unlike others througout teh country have yet to get pay decreases! ( when thats what they tell me anyway!)

starfish12

regardless of what their staff do or dont earn, the issue is with CER trying to artifically create competition, think about it, if the govt allowed esb to reduce prices, you can be sure the other companies would too, and then we'd all get cheaper electricity.

daisy21

starfish12 wrote: »

regardless of what their staff do or dont earn, the issue is with CER trying to artifically create competition, think about it, if the govt allowed esb to reduce prices, you can be sure the other companies would too, and then we'd all get cheaper electricity.

do you then think it would be better to privatise the company

starfish12

tbh i dont really care one way or the other, ive changed to a cheaper provider, and will continue to swap around to get the best price that suits me, it just annoys me that irish consumers can't get the best price, we can just get a discount from the price thats determined.

Max Power1

starbelgrade wrote: »

So you are saying that all that blurb is worth paying an extra 10% plus for?!?!!!!

Obviously not. But the ESB guys can hardly say "we want to lose enough of you as customers so we can charge lower prices", even if that is the privately held opinion.

DOTHEDOG

ok very sweet and short

will the esb cancel my bill if i threaten to go to another company

EDIT: can we have someone from bord gais here to represent themselves

ESB CS: Chris

ok very sweet and short

will the esb cancel my bill if i threaten to go to another company

Hi Dothedog,

To give you a short and sweet answer, while we appreciate your custom, we will not cancel your bill if you threaten to move to another supplier.

No matter which supplier you are with you will be charged for all of the electricity you use.

Many thanks
Chris

Zen65

starfish12 wrote: »

Nope starbelgrade, read the post, he's saying that CER set prices & esb aren't allowed to reduce their rate, its all about the government creating artifical competition in the market place

Hi Starfish,

I don't understand why you say "artificial competition". Surely if new entrants to the market are allowed to establish themselves here then that's real competition?

Z

Zen65

DOTHEDOG wrote: »

will the esb cancel my bill if i threaten to go to another company

I don't think any company would do that (phone, gas, electricity, video rental, etc) ... it's illogical!

Cheers,

Z

macnab

ESB used to be the 2nd cheapest producer of domestic electricity in Europe. Until it was decided that they had a "Monopoly" which was deemed to be unfair. So in order to intice new blood into the game the rewards had to be improved. The result has been a huge increase in the cost of electricity.

The wages bill has nothing got to do with it, just Ireland bowing down to Euro guidelines.

DOTHEDOG

ESB CS: Chris wrote: »

Hi Dothedog,

To give you a short and sweet answer, while we appreciate your custom, we will not cancel your bill if you threaten to move to another supplier.

No matter which supplier you are with you will be charged for all of the electricity you use.

Many thanks
Chris

it was a joke chris

ESB CS: Chris

it was a joke chris

In the words of Homer Simpson: "Oh, I get it! I get jokes!"

Owen

The biggest issue I have with Bord Gais is that they can't even get their own bills right. I can't remember the last time I saw someone coming to read the meter, and over the last 18 months, 17 months have been estimated/me phoning in the reading bills. I can only imagine how bad they would be with electricity.

Cookie_Monster

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The biggest issue I have with Bord Gais is that they can't even get their own bills right. I can't remember the last time I saw someone coming to read the meter, and over the last 18 months, 17 months have been estimated/me phoning in the reading bills. I can only imagine how bad they would be with electricity.

You can't submit Elec reading online for BG and can't view history of submitted gas readings which is a pain in the ass. But they've been pretty good with readings for me so far

Max Power1

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The biggest issue I have with Bord Gais is that they can't even get their own bills right. I can't remember the last time I saw someone coming to read the meter, and over the last 18 months, 17 months have been estimated/me phoning in the reading bills. I can only imagine how bad they would be with electricity.

ESB networks provide readings for all electricity customers, irrespective of supplier.

(similar to the way BGE Networks provide readings for all gas customers, irrespective of supplier)

Catalpa1

Saw this on the Alternative Energy suppliers section

http://www.clareherald.com/business-and-finance/consumer/2598-esb-disconnects-elderly-woman-who-never-missed-a-payment.html?lang

I gather that Airtricity had her disconnected because she didnt pay her deposit or direct debit she did however pay all her bills with them on time. Interesting question, years ago we all had tvs fridges on Hire Purchase from ESB and I remember that they couldnt disconnect you if you had paid the bill on time. Now I know that technically Airricity will say that she didnt pay to terms but did the Salesman who no doubt promised her the earth tell her she would be disconnected if she didnt pay a deposit or dd.I am beginging to worry that we will end up with fuel apartheid, those that can move i.e have money, resources will move but the fuel poor who need it the most will be unable to.

gizmo555

Having read the article, it seems she was disconnected because she didn't pay the €300 deposit required from customers who don't pay by direct debit.

This requirement is not unique to Airtricity - ESB has the same thing. Maybe she didn't understand the implications of not paying the deposit, but similar issues could easily be avoided if Airtricity (and other suppliers) put in place a policy of not effecting switches for non-DD customers until they have received the deposit they require.

Fnergg

Catalpa1 wrote: »

....I am beginging to worry that we will end up with fuel apartheid, those that can move i.e have money, resources will move but the fuel poor who need it the most will be unable to.

That's effectively what's happening.

Bord Gais Energy and Airtricity want Low Cost to Serve customers i.e. customers who will pay by direct debit, who will not fall into arrears and thus will not require regular payment reminders, the making of payment arrangements and the like. They have been focussing their customer recruitment campaigns therefore mainly on the middle classes, the customer segment most likely to be banked.

Of course, given the times we live in, many customers' direct debits bounce and so those companies still have to engage in payment collection activities but in the main, as a percentage of their customer base, such customers are quite small as both utilities have been very careful to cherry pick their customers from the ESB.

Meanwhile, as you say, the fuel poor who would benefit the most from a price reduction receive the cold shoulder from BGE and Airtricity. No direct debit? Pay a €300 deposit. In other words, get lost. The Big Switch is not for the likes of you.

And all this is countenanced by the CER in the interest of "promoting competition". The CER is forcing ESB Customer Supply to keep its prices higher than its competitors in order to encourage customers to move to the other, unregulated utilities.

You are quite right: it is fuel apartheid.

Regards,

Fnergg

gizmo555

Fnergg wrote: »

Bord Gais Energy and Airtricity . . . have been focussing their customer recruitment campaigns therefore mainly on the middle classes, the customer segment most likely to be banked.

This is utter nonsense - BG in particular has been running a very high-profile mass market TV & radio campaign for months. How could this be described as "focussing" on the middle classes? Are you saying only the middle classes have televisions?

Fnergg wrote: »

Meanwhile, as you say, the fuel poor who would benefit the most from a price reduction receive the cold shoulder from BGE and Airtricity. No direct debit? Pay a €300 deposit. In other words, get lost. The Big Switch is not for the likes of you.

As has repeatedly been pointed out on this forum (including by ESB customer service representatives), ESB have the same deposit requirements. If the lady in the newspaper article linked to in this thread wants to switch back to the ESB without a direct debit, she'll have to come up with €300 for them too.

Fnergg wrote: »

You are quite right: it is fuel apartheid.

If so, ESB are engaging in it in just the same way as Bord Gais and Airtricity.

Catalpa1

Good morning Gizmo,
FIrstly I hold no brief for ESB Customer Supply BGe or Airtricity.I would probably describe myself as having an interesting in how the Energy market works with a particular emphasis on Renewables.
In relation to the points you make below.

This is utter nonsense - BG in particular has been running a very high-profile mass market TV & radio campaign for months. How could this be described as "focussing" on the middle classes? Are you saying only the middle classes have televisions?

I agree, BUT there is an element of "many are called but few are chosen" I know of a few cases personally with both BGE and Airtricity where if the customer strays away from the "terms of the contract" i.e does not honour the deposit/dd requirement they are disconnected, an example being the case last week of Airtricity disconnecting an elderly lady who had paid all her bills but didnt meet the dd/deposit requirement.
In a sense this is understandable ABC1 are what most suppliers want, they get their bill they pay by dd. They will read their meters, though I have a family member who has had MAJOR issues with BGE when submitting revised readings having been over estimated.So essentially it makes perfect business sense for the other suppliers to initially grab everyone they can and then weed out those who dont match the profile of an ABC1 and effectively force them back to ESBCS.

As has repeatedly been pointed out on this forum (including by ESB customer service representatives), ESB have the same deposit requirements. If the lady in the newspaper article linked to in this thread wants to switch back to the ESB without a direct debit, she'll have to come up with €300 for them too.

ESB Supply historically is the incumbent supplier, thus when competition came into the market they in essence had a credit history of every customer in the country. So for example the lady who paid all her bills with Airtricity and was disconnected. She comes back to ESB they know that she also paid all her bills with them ( this was stated on local radio in Cork) so when she moves back ESB don't see her as a credit risk they simple set her up as before NO DEPOSIT and NO DIRECT DEBIT requirment.
Some family members whose financial circumstances changed and they moved back to ESB were similarly convenienced, their previous history with ESB Supply was good so they were set up even down to using their original account number.
Now if you rang ESB supply today and had NO previous account with them I have no doubt they would charge you a deposit or a direct debit.
BGE have around 600k gas customers I wonder if you ring and wish to get your electricity supply from them will they use your existing gas account (assuming it is not on direct debit) as a basis for waiving your deposit.
So my own viewpoint is that yes there is an element of fuel apartheid, at play, those who cannot consistently honour direct debit or those who cannot pay €300 as a deposit will effectively be stuck with ESB Supply.You could make the case as other posters have that these are the very groups who need a discount the most.
Just my thoughts

Fnergg

gizmo555 wrote: »

This is utter nonsense - BG in particular has been running a very high-profile mass market TV & radio campaign for months. How could this be described as "focussing" on the middle classes? Are you saying only the middle classes have televisions?

As has repeatedly been pointed out on this forum (including by ESB customer service representatives), ESB have the same deposit requirements. If the lady in the newspaper article linked to in this thread wants to switch back to the ESB without a direct debit, she'll have to come up with €300 for them too.

My point is that thousands of unbanked customers of ESB Customer Supply are effectively disbarred from the opportunity of getting cheaper electricity because they cannot afford the €300 deposit requirements levied by BGE and Airticity.

It's not about "only the middle classes having televisions": it's largely about customers having bank accounts. Something like 25% of Irish households/individuals do not have a current bank account.

The ESB is forced by the Regulator to keep its prices higher than its competitors so that "competition" can be embedded in the Irish electricity market.

As long as this price regulation continues ESB Customer Supply will be unable to offer more attractive price offerings.

The customers who would benefit the most from cheaper prices therefore find themselves paying more than the better-off customers who have been able to switch.

"If the lady in the newspaper article linked to in this thread wants to switch back to the ESB without a direct debit, she'll have to come up with €300 for them too".

She has gone back to ESB Customer Supply and I understand that she has not been charged a deposit or required to pay by direct debit.

Regards,

Fnergg