Anglo Irish Chief: kthxbye for €22 billion

oceanclub

http://thestory.ie/2010/06/17/in-case-you-missed-it/

He thanks the minister (not us) for giving him 22 billion, then says "oh, by the way, you won't see any of that money ever again. Hey, nice sandwiches" (I may be paraphrasing).

P.

ei.sdraob

I clearly remember some people on these forums saying that Anglo is an "investment"

22billion is incredible amount of money, that's about how much went in to build us all the latest motorways

the story was in business section of indo today as well
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/836422bn-state-bailout-cash-is-gone-says-anglo-chief-2223322.html

also had this "Gem"

THE "lion's share" of the €22bn being pumped into state-owned Anglo Irish Bank will "never be seen again", the bank's chief executive Mike Aynsley admitted yesterday.

The statement came during a high-octane Oireachtas committee meeting, at which Anglo's top brass also revealed that €550m of the loans they have transferred to the National Assets Management Agency (NAMA) had been written down "to zero".

Other highlights of the meeting included predictions of further "horrendous" losses at Anglo this year, as another €9.5bn is written off NAMA-bound and the bank's €35bn non-NAMA loan book takes an additional hit.

notice how they bundled all the bad news in one go, so no one would notice this NAMA losses substory :mad:

mathie

drip drip drip.

It'll continue like this for a long, long time.

"We've turned a corner"
Yeah we're now on 5hit hit fan Lane.

ClayDavis

Can somebody explain to me why shareholders and bondholders couldn't have just suffered the losses? I understand having to prop up certain institutions but this is a farce.

IrishTonyO

From 1973 to 2003 Ireland received €17 billion in structural funds from the EU, so it received 77% of what we are losing with Anglo Irish Bank (so far) in 30 years! Puts it in perspective. :eek:

http://www.ndp.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/eu_structural_funds/overview/structural_funds.htm&mn=euso&nID=3

NOGMaxpower

two words will explain why: "Golden Circle"

they have eachothers backs on this one at the cost to us the tax payer.

A lynching would be too good for them.

eoinbn

ClayDavis wrote: »

Can somebody explain to me why shareholders and bondholders couldn't have just suffered the losses? I understand having to prop up certain institutions but this is a farce.

The shareholders lost their money...

cavedave

ei.sdraob

The statement came during a high-octane Oireachtas committee meeting, at which Anglo's top brass also revealed that €550m of the loans they have transferred to the National Assets Management Agency (NAMA) had been written down "to zero".

from wikipedia

In financial accounting, assets are economic resources. Anything tangible or intangible that is capable of being owned or controlled to produce value and that is held to have positive economic value is considered an asset

If something has zero value it is by definition not an asset. so What is the National Assets Management Agency doing taken it? Sorry if i am being think here but if its not an asset its not NAMA's thing. And if it has no value it is not an asset.

IrishTonyO

Have been meaning to ask, what the hell is kthxbye?

sideshowsue

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Have been meaning to ask, what the hell is kthxbye?

kthxbye = OK, thanks, bye!

RichardAnd

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Have been meaning to ask, what the hell is kthxbye?

My guess is "kiss the F**K goodbye"

Liam Byrne

sideshowsue wrote: »

kthxbye = OK, thanks, bye!

No, kthxbye is a random jumble of meaningless letters.

Sand

kthxbye is internet jargon, usually used in an ironic fashion and/or to indicate dismissal of the person addressed. In fact, it is always used to indicate dismissal of the person addressed.

I imagine anyone who thought Lenihan had a plan is shocked. I amnt. By the way, how are most peoples estimates of the NAMA losses going? Up? Down? Up?

stepbar

Seen on a t-shirt in dublin... Nil An Maith Agam. NAMA. Yes indeed.

Sand

Sand wrote: »

kthxbye is internet jargon, usually used in an ironic fashion and/or to indicate dismissal of the person addressed. In fact, it is always used to indicate dismissal of the person addressed.

yeah "k, thanks, bye" = kthnxbye in one word meaning its said quick

Pot Noodle =

Just gets worse

McGrath5

Even the dog on the street know's this is a rotten deal for the taxpayer.

The_Honeybadger

Hardly a surprise in fairness, it just confirms what we already knew, it is absolutely scandelous and I'm at a loss as to how we (the Irish people) have allowed ourselved to be saddled with this enormous burden. Would the electorate in any other country in the world have stood for this? The figures are truly mind boggling, and I'll bet that f**ker Seanie hasn't lost a wink of sleep over all the people that are going to suffer because of this.

thebman

cavedave wrote: »

from wikipedia


If something has zero value it is by definition not an asset. so What is the National Assets Management Agency doing taken it? Sorry if i am being think here but if its not an asset its not NAMA's thing. And if it has no value it is not an asset.

Your not thinking FF style.

You've got to look at the "long term economic value" or the imaginary worth if you will.

edanto

That’s about five thousand euro each for every man, woman and child. Where has it gone?

It must have gone somewhere, right? If it’s gone out of our pockets it must have gone into someone else’s pockets.

Never, never put the party of Ahern, Haughey and Cowen in power. This loss is the effect of their policies. Their cosy arrangments, non-existent financial regulation, and the fact that they live on a cloud of comfort away from the rest of us.

It angers me that they let this situation develop on their watch, whilst ignoring calls from people to do something about the property bubble.

You can do something about it. Apathy is an illusion. Granted, it’s a comfortable illusion to feel that there’s nothing you can do, but frankly it’s going to be an expensive one if all of us choose it. Choose to do something!

Visit the website of each political party. Read what they say they will do to fix this mess. Then pick a party and get involved. Turn up to a meeting. Get out and campaign. That means talking to people that aren’t interested in politics and trying to get them interested! Showing them how this really, really matters.

Let’s get a government that’s working for us, instead of plunging us into deeper and deeper debt trying to save their own skins.

fontanalis

Imagine this going down the crapper and if the health service was underfunded, now that would be crazy.

dunsandin

Confirmed today,by Cowen, after being winched out of him in the Dail- The classic he utters -"if anybody did not realise this was going to be the case, they were being foolish"!!!!!
Not as foolish as "Burying" €22,000,000,000.00. But I doubt it has evaporated, or burnt, more likley it is in repose somwhere, while its recipient(s) sip Rioja from a supermodels bellybutton and eat another roast swan. A toast to the Paddies. I'm just glad we could be of use. But then, i'm probably just being a "little man" in saying this.Hah. Robbery, out and out robbery. This must surely leave Nama with a small hill to climb in order to return a "profit" (sorry, just had to stifle a bitter laugh there). Anybody care to come on here and explain to us Nama doubters how this was fully expected, and just a hiccup before the returns flood in?

Sand

It was pointed out on Irisheconomy.ie as well that the claimed cost of winding up Anglo Irish inflated in three months from 20 billion to 49 billion. Why? Well, they had to justify losing 22 billion. And like everything else any crazed scheme is justified by claiming "It would be worse if we didnt do it".

A default is coming down the tracks. Its practically inescapable at this point. The EU will do another big song and dance, make big speeches and talk about taking on the big bad markets but the truth is they are badly badly badly in trouble. Especially the German banks. They are taking the Lehman strategy where Dick Fuld tried to stare down the markets by buying back Lehman stock with Lehmans own capital, trying to communicate that the market had undervalued it. But they hadnt. It was a bluff and the markets called it and theyll do the same to the EU's bluff too.

Unfortunately, this government has insisted that no investors will be left behind - the taxpayer might lose out, but every investor will get every single penny back even if the entire economy has to be sacrified to do so. It has taken private debts which had no connection to the state and ensured the banks would take us down with them.

But sure, the alternative would have been worse...right?

Scarab80

dunsandin wrote: »

Confirmed today,by Cowen, after being winched out of him in the Dail- The classic he utters -"if anybody did not realise this was going to be the case, they were being foolish"!!!!!
Not as foolish as "Burying" €22,000,000,000.00. But I doubt it has evaporated, or burnt, more likley it is in repose somwhere, while its recipient(s) sip Rioja from a supermodels bellybutton and eat another roast swan. A toast to the Paddies. I'm just glad we could be of use. But then, i'm probably just being a "little man" in saying this.Hah. Robbery, out and out robbery. This must surely leave Nama with a small hill to climb in order to return a "profit" (sorry, just had to stifle a bitter laugh there). Anybody care to come on here and explain to us Nama doubters how this was fully expected, and just a hiccup before the returns flood in?

The money is sitting in the bank accounts of the landowners who sold before the crash, the tradespeople and materials suppliers who worked on half completed and unsold/unsaleable developments.

I don't see how the fact that Anglo Irish Bank is insolvent to the tune of 22bn has any affect on NAMA. It was expected because after after the elimination of shareholders equity the bank was still insolvent to the tune of 22bn, so unless Anglo generated 22bn in profit from their loan book of 35bn it was obvious that the money was not going to be returned.

I don't know anyone who is or was expecting returns to flood in from Anglo, we will possibly earn returns from BOI, AIB (hence being funded from the NPRF) and maybe EBS but it was never expected with Anglo and INBS (INBS lost more in 1 year than they had made in profit in all of their prior years combined)

dunsandin

dunsandin wrote: »

Anybody care to come on here and explain to us Nama doubters how this was fully expected, and just a hiccup before the returns flood in?

Thanks Scarab.

K-9

cavedave wrote: »

from wikipedia


If something has zero value it is by definition not an asset. so What is the National Assets Management Agency doing taken it? Sorry if i am being think here but if its not an asset its not NAMA's thing. And if it has no value it is not an asset.

I think this was mainly for loans with little nor no paperwork as back up.

Basically, the asset is still worth something, NAMA is still getting it but is giving Anglo Zero for it.

Of course, that just leaves Anglo needing more capital. Fecked if you, fecked if you don't.

Sand

Of course, that just leaves Anglo needing more capital. Fecked if you, fecked if you don't.

Well, only somewhat - at least if we inject capital we get shares in return so if a miracles occurs we get the upswing. However, if we get screwed on the cash for trash deal, we just get screwed.

Id advise against either, Id have left Anglo (and indeed AIB, BOI and more exactly their stakeholders) to burn, but given the choice Id rather inject capital upfront and risk an upswing than get screwed buying worthless crap.

dunsandin

Sand wrote: »

Well, only somewhat - at least if we inject capital we get shares in return so if a miracles occurs we get the upswing. However, if we get screwed on the cash for trash deal, we just get screwed.

Id advise against either, Id have left Anglo (and indeed AIB, BOI and more exactly their stakeholders) to burn, but given the choice Id rather inject capital upfront and risk an upswing than get screwed buying worthless crap.

Probably with as much value as those of eircom. We may yet find that we have injected capital, failed to halt the rot, and a NewAndImproved Anglo lite will be spun off as a small commercial bank(idea kited by Dukes on V.B last night)- whats the betting that the state will let Anglo lite walk away as an unencumbered entity, leaving the old, decayed hull of Anglo proper to wallow on in the mire, until it can be quietly towed out to sea and sunk, with the taxpayers money as ballast. Edit, no betting really, just a glimpse of the future imo. And I laugh when they say we have given anglo 22bn and spin that as the cost to the taxpayer - it ignores totally the small matter of interest. This is borrowed money, and last time I checked, it was not a 0% loan. When fully repaid(hah) it will be a tad higher, so the real cost to the govt(and therefore the taxpayers) will be a multiple of this figure of €22,000,000,000 Big number,isn't it.

Shield

Revealed yesterday and reaffirmed again today that the 22 billion will never be seen again, never be recouped... gone. Poof!

How there isn't mass civil unrest over this down there is just beyond me.

Unbelievable.

Liam Byrne

dunsandin wrote: »

Confirmed today,by Cowen, after being winched out of him in the Dail- The classic he utters -"if anybody did not realise this was going to be the case, they were being foolish"!!!!!

That's Alanis Morissette territory for that twat, because that's precisely what I thought over 3 years ago about the then-forthcoming crash in the property market, and Cowen & his former boss were the ones telling us that we should f**k off and top ourselves.

Mind you, given the state he's landed the country in, we might have been better off. :mad: