whatever happened to boxing?

CorkMan

40s- Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, SRR, La Motta
50s- Sonny Liston, Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, SRR
60s- Ali, Liston, Joe Frazier, Ernie Terrell, George Chuvalo
70s- Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Earnie Shavers, Larry Holmes, SRL, Duran
80s- Larry Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, SRL, Hagler, Hearns, Duran
90s- Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe.

I am mainly thinking of heavyweights (World Cup in 2 mins) in the past but these days the Klitschkos are the only heavyweights, and theyre not fighting each other. Mayweather is the main boxer and he's ducking Pacquiao. If Mayweather was around in the late 70's/80's, he wouldn't have that unbeaten tag.

00's was a disaster for the heavies, only a past Tyson lost to Lennox Lewis for the money and holyfield got old. SMH. We need a great heavyweight, Louis in the 40s, Marciano/Liston 50s, Ali/Frazier 60s, Ali/Frazier/Foreman/Holmes 70s, Holmes/Tyson 80s, Tyson/Holyfield Lewis 90s.

We need a Tyson/Holmes/Ali/Foreman/Liston fighter period now to revive the sport IMO.

joepenguin

True there are no heavyweights that capture your imagination these days. Suppose there would be a few reasons for this: (All of which is just my opinion)

More / easier ways to earn a living if you are a fit athlete, be it a less demanding sport or fitness industry.

Less competitors so the talent pool isnt as deep.

The average competitor is faster and stronger due to advances in training methods so its harder for a fighter to stand out?

Lifestyle: People are more sedentary than years ago and jobs are less physically demanding. With all the temptation of partying, junk food etc its harder than ever for fighters to stay on track, keep getting up at 5am etc. especially when they dont need to do so to put food on the table.

I bet if you took a sample of 100 american fighters from now and say 50-60 years ago, there would be more athletes today that compete cause they love the sport and they get paid. In tougher times it was probably more to do with fighting purely for the money.

megadodge

Well, I'm not in the doom and gloom camp that a number of (mainly American) commentators are in.

Ever since I've got interested in boxing (late 1970's) there has always been a "boxing is dying" "fighters nowadays can't hold a candle to x,y,z" "there's no good boxers anymore" attitude amongst certain types of people who see what they want to see and no more.

In relation to the current 'malaise' there are a few reasons that have the pessimists moaning.

1. Americans are not dominating. This is a good thing IMO as boxing now truely has a 'world' feel to it rather than being top-heavy with Yanks with an occasional Marcel Cerdan, Flash Elorde and Pancho Villa thrown in for an exotic flavour.

2. The heavyweights are unexciting. Shock horror !! When you have a lot of good exciting heavyweight bouts it's the exception NOT the norm!! Pound for pound, Heavyweights are consistently the least skilled, least disciplined, least exciting boxers on the planet. You will only get a batch like in the 1970's maybe once every 100 years.

3. Because of the fall of communism, there are now numerous 'hungry' boxers from Eastern European countries who are prepared to go that extra mile. These type of boxers didn't exist in the past because of the ban on pro boxing in these countries. So, on the law of averages with a wider spread of boxers the titles are going to be spread out over a lot more countries. And a lot of these boxers don't speak English, which to me doesn't matter a sh!t, but the TV execs seem to think it does. They seem to forget Roberto Duran never spoke a word of English on TV yet was adored worldwide.

4. Pay-per-view might be good for the very elite boxers short-term, but long-term I don't think it's doing any favours to boxing. It means less exposure, which leads to less interest, which leads to less coverage, etc. However, if you look at the whole Bernard Dunne story, in a country not renowned for it's support of pro boxing, Dunne was packing them out for the last few years due to good terrestrial TV coverage. It doesn't take much to get people interested in boxing purely because the base product is naturally exciting.

So, I'm not particularly worried about the state of boxing. Actually I would go so far as to say in the last 10-12 years there have been more truely great fights than any 10-12 year span I can compare. The quality is definitely there.

CorkMan

I disagree with your heavyweight comment, I think they are the cream of the crop and when past the 70s there were great heavyweights, name Holmes, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Bowe, Tua (to an extent) but this is only up to 99-00.

If Bowe was still in shape and not so punch drunk I think he'd take the championship.

whaaames

megadodge wrote: »

there has always been a "boxing is dying" "fighters nowadays can't hold a candle to x,y,z" "there's no good boxers anymore" attitude amongst certain types of people who see what they want to see and no more.

This is very true, i'm only 25 but have been a fan of boxing for about 15 years because it ran in my family, and i remember my grandad saying about that time; nearly to the word that 'Tyson wouldnt hold a candle to Marciano or Sonny Liston' and when i was watching the Klitschko vs Ibragimov fight a few years back witht the girlfriends dad, him saying that 'neither of them have a patch on Tyson or Riddick Bowe' so i think everyone remembers fondly their generation and the next is never the same...

I grew up with Collins, Eubank, Tyson, Lewis, Hamed, and even for me that was a more exciting era than today but in fairness it probably isn't...

But i do have to say that for the simple fact the Klitschko brothers will never fight one another it's depriving the modern generation of the unification bout it sorely needs....and wants

cowzerp

Vitali Klitcshko may not excite all but he could beat anyone that ever laced a pair of gloves, not saying he would but he certainly could as he is a brilliant boxer and would be a nightmare to fight for anyone, including Ali, Frazier, etc... the only lad i think would be a definite big problem for Vitali would be Foreman as he is big and powerful and had a chin of granite.. Bowe while fit potentially could have been too.. my point been that he belongs in the elite of the heavyweight divisions history.

Heavy weight boxing is mainly exciting due to knock outs and not skill, the skillfull Heavies just have much easier fights than there lighter counter parts as there opponents tend to suck!!!

I wish TV put the effort into the boxing that it used to and advertised fighters like the UFC do, if people dont feel they know fighters it certainly takes away from the interest, thats why people loved dunne, he was a well known face and that got interest easily..

Boxers are probably better now due to better training, diet etc.. but the exposure is lower and the lack of great english speaking fighters is also a negative as far as international exposure..

fakearms123

This is simply because MMA is taking over as the main combat sport, its more exciting, its more diverse, more elements to win the fight, it incorporates every fighting style which includes boxing and MMA has more characters just like the ones you have mentioned above in terms of boxing.

I think people have become tired of guys like Don King and Bob Arum and how they promote fights, the way Dana White and Scott Coker are running things in the states these days is very clever, even Bob Arum said so.

I mean if you look at the heavyweight division in MMA you have some great characters/fighters:
Fedor, Brock Lesnar, Alistair Overeem, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin and Junior dos Santos

so many interesting fights between these guys!

The Davestator

cowzerp wrote: »

Vitali Klitcshko may not excite all but he could beat anyone that ever laced a pair of gloves, not saying he would but he certainly could as he is a brilliant boxer and would be a nightmare to fight for anyone, including Ali, Frazier, etc... the only lad i think would be a definite big problem for Vitali would be Foreman as he is big and powerful and had a chin of granite.. Bowe while fit potentially could have been too.. my point been that he belongs in the elite of the heavyweight divisions history.
QUOTE]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Jaysus Paul, are you feeling ok? Do you need to go and have a lie down?

Although a decent boxer, he's scared ****less of getting hit, and is a total wuss IMO

cowzerp

The Davestator wrote: »

cowzerp wrote: »

Vitali Klitcshko may not excite all but he could beat anyone that ever laced a pair of gloves, not saying he would but he certainly could as he is a brilliant boxer and would be a nightmare to fight for anyone, including Ali, Frazier, etc... the only lad i think would be a definite big problem for Vitali would be Foreman as he is big and powerful and had a chin of granite.. Bowe while fit potentially could have been too.. my point been that he belongs in the elite of the heavyweight divisions history.
QUOTE]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Jaysus Paul, are you feeling ok? Do you need to go and have a lie down?

Although a decent boxer, he's scared ****less of getting hit, and is a total wuss IMO

i think your mistaking him with Wladimir tbh, Vitali has a good chin, at the end of the day its the art of hit and dont get hit and he is great at that.

mrgardener

fakearms123 wrote: »

This is simply because MMA is taking over as the main combat sport, its more exciting, its more diverse, more elements to win the fight, it incorporates every fighting style which includes boxing and MMA has more characters just like the ones you have mentioned above in terms of boxing.

I think people have become tired of guys like Don King and Bob Arum and how they promote fights, the way Dana White and Scott Coker are running things in the states these days is very clever, even Bob Arum said so.

I mean if you look at the heavyweight division in MMA you have some great characters/fighters:
Fedor, Brock Lesnar, Alistair Overeem, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin and Junior dos Santos

so many interesting fights between these guys!

Thats the problem. An exciting boxer is someone who excites in AND out of the ring. Most of the Eastern European fighters around at the moment have personalities of a plank, language difficulties aside.

cppromotions

the fighters of old were hungry fighters who fought mainly to make a living it was tougher times but the difference between then and now was there was 1 champion of each division and it was harder to win Titles and even tougher to hold onto them so every fight was a hard fight there was 10 weight divisions and ten belts it think now ther are 16 weight divisions with 4 recognised belts which if my maths is right that makes 64 world title belts!
this is whats wrong with boxing these days

whaaames

cppromotions wrote: »

the fighters of old were hungry fighters who fought mainly to make a living it was tougher times but the difference between then and now was there was 1 champion of each division and it was harder to win Titles and even tougher to hold onto them so every fight was a hard fight there was 10 weight divisions and ten belts it think now ther are 16 weight divisions with 4 recognised belts which if my maths is right that makes 64 world title belts!
this is whats wrong with boxing these days

Man, i've been saying this for years that this is the problem with boxing, far too many world titles and fighters just aren't hungry any more, like they train hard and they're physically in brilliant condition but they're not hungry because theres too many chances to win belts on offer...with all the major belts, the minor belts, the meaningless belts and every other paper championship (like this upcoming WBC Silver Title which i cant seem to figure out) theres about 80 fighters with 'World Titles' all claiming to be the baddest on the planet and it's ruining boxing...

I thought this Super 6 would be the start of a movement to put a stop to the nonsense but the more i think about it it probably wont, sure it'll decide the best Super Middleweight in the world but he wont even be the undisputed champion, he'll only have 2 unified titles which still leaves a hoard of other fellas saying they're the best...

And as much as i love Pac Man i hate the way fighters now can win World Titles in 5/6/7 different weights and have this glorious record but never stay in a division long enough to prove they're the best...

And the weights thing is another killer for boxing, having only 6/7/8 pounds between weights, whats that about..? Junior divisions, Super divions, cut all that s**t out and have less weight divisions, then theres be more fighters in each weight class, thus providing tougher competition in a division...

Less Weights = Less Belts = More Fighters per Class = Hungrier Fighters...!!!

cowzerp

fakearms123 wrote: »

I mean if you look at the heavyweight division in MMA you have some great characters/fighters:
Fedor, Brock Lesnar, Alistair Overeem, Cain Velasquez, Shane Carwin and Junior dos Santos

so many interesting fights between these guys!

1 major problem with your argument-Fedor is widely believed to be the best fighter on the planet but cant meet the champion of the UFC which is Brock lesnar due to them been in different organisations, at least the wbo champ can face the wbc champ in boxing, overeem is also in the same circumstance as he is a strikeforce fighter too.

Plus without been funny most of them heavyweights are as dull as poo out of the ring.

untill recently the heavyweight division in MMA was terrible, also lesnar only has about 5 fights with 1 loss so its hardly awe inspiring.

The UFC is simply great at promoting there fighters, most people would not know fedor if they seen him in o connell street even though he is the best of the MMA heavyweights.