New 'harder' water supply in Kildare Town

aodh_rua

As some of you may know, KCC introduced a new blended water supply to parts of Kildare Town earlier in the year. It seems to be having an adverse affect on appliances and piping in a number of estates in a pattern that seems to match the experience of Rathangan when it come onstream with the new supply last year.

There's a public meeting on the issue next Wednesday night in Áras Bhride (next to the parish church) at 8pm. It'd be great to get a good turnout and a feel for how widespread this issue is.

32finn

Hey Aodh rua. I wont be able to make this meeting but would be very interested to hear what happens.
I am living in Curragh Finn, on the Rathbride road, and to say the water is bad is a bit of an under statement. My daughter (4) has always drank water or blackcurrant but now it has to be bottled water, wont even look at the tap water. And dont get me started on my poor auld kettle!!! :-).
Anyway, post back and let me know how things go, cheers

aodh_rua

Will do - I'm next to you in Drumcree, so I know what you're going through. Can you let your neighbours know too?

Gregsor

I`ve noticed how bad the tap water is since moving to Milltown from Newbridge recently.
Even through using a water filter jug it is very hard to keep a clean kettle.
It seems to taste fine.
I have also noticed a lot more dried staining on the stainless steel taps and the shower doors,more than one would usually see,wonder what it`s doing to our skin?
Any idea on what % of the mains water is "blended"?
Is it on a trial basis?

MidlandsM

You'll all have to get a water softner installed in your home.
Approx €800 installed and approx €7 amonth to run.

32finn

aodh_rua wrote: »

Will do - I'm next to you in Drumcree, so I know what you're going through. Can you let your neighbours know too?

Yea will do, no prob

Damn!!

Same here, i won't be around for the meeting but would really like to know the outcome, the longer you wait tot put the softener in, the worse it gets.. but i'm not anxious to shell out that much if this will be rectified any time soon.


Also i've noticed an oily residue when you boil the stuff, (i'm not calling this water)

cbrady99

I'm in Rathbride Demesne and we're all experiencing the same problems here too since the change. Unfortunately I can't make it to Wednesdays meeting because of work but I'll be sure to let my neighbours know and I'll be keeping an eye on this thread for an update on how the meeting goes.

aodh_rua

We had a big turnout for last night's meeting. Here's the email that has been sent out those who came and to those who emailed in advance. I've also created a Facebook page so we can bring all of the various inputs together - you can find it here.

Hi all

First thanks for attending in such numbers at last night's meeting, and for the email message from those who couldn't attend. It is clear that there are widespread issues with the new water supply for homes and for businesses. The two key problems are the high lime content and the effect this is having on appliances; and the high chlorine content which is causing a bad smell and irritating skin (not to mention raising concerns about why such high concentrations are required).

Following on from last night, we agreed to gather reps from each estate so that we can co-ordinate a grassroots effort to highlight our issues. In particular we would like to raise a petition and to put together a comprehensive list of issues of concern.

I will get the media onside, I will also seek answers to the following questions...

What is the proportion of blending being used?
Can the supply be softened at source, and if so at what cost?
Why are the levels of chlorine noticeably high?
Why weren't all estates informed, and why was conflicting information given to residents who made direct contact?
Has Kildare County Council factored in the cost of installing individual softeners at each local authority house, and have they considered the cost of replacing damaged heating and other equipment in these homes?
Has any other area in the country implemented a solution for softening at source?
Has Kildare County Council considered the impact on local businesses including the bloodstock industry?

I will also get reps from last year's Rathangan campaign on board, and I will reach out to interested group in the town like the Chamber of Commerce and in Newbridge.

The next meeting of the Council's area committee (which considers Kildare Town issues) is on July 21, with a deadline for motions of Friday July 9. This gives us two weeks to identify the key issues of concern. I will also investigate the possibility that Water Services attend the meeting and provide a report on how they view the project. This would give me an opportunity to present the issues you have highlighted. This is a public meeting, so any interested residents are free to attend.

We can only be effective if we can get good support on the ground, so I hope that as many of you as possible will be willing to get involved in co-ordinating your estates.

Let me know if you want to be part of the co-ordinating team.

aodh_rua

Charlie Talbot from Kildare County Council was on Kfm earlier offering to test affected water (though if hundreds come forward he won't do everyone). It would be great for as many people as possible to contact him on 045 980241 or ctalbot@kildarecoco.ie.

NedNew2

Please find below a detailed and informative response from Kildare County Council after I sent them an email about the new hard water supply:

Thanks for your reaction to the blended water: I'll try to deal withthe points you raise.

Why Blending?
The water supply to County Kildare has developed as part of a regional system. In the 1930s, it was decided to provide both a water supply anda source of hydroelectricity at Poulaphouca. At that time, County Kildare's supply was taken from groundwater (wells and springs) and from some surface water sources (e.g., the Liffey at Athgarvan). Over subsequent years the county's population increased: this gave rise to a requirement for larger-scale water production and the economies of scale that that would entail, and so led to use of the Poulaphouca supply which moved westward across the county as far as Rathangan and north-westwards to the Carbury area. The development of a reservoir, again for consumption and hydroelectricity, at Leixlip offered a source for the north-eastern part of the county. The southern part of the county relied mainly on groundwater.

So, much of Kildare's water was sourced from within the greater Dublin supply (Poulaphouca being a Dublin City Council/ESB operation, and Leixlip being operated by Fingal County Council and the ESB). The last two decades saw rapid expansion in demand for water because of: growing numbers of households, rising industrial activity and increasing use within households. This rising demand in the region prompted the development of indigenous sources in County Kildare, and projects based on water from wellfields in the west and mid-west of the county and on abstraction from the River Barrow at Athy were developed. These arecurrently at various stages from planning to use.

You make a good point that there should be less demand now that business and other activities have decreased. However, the water supplysystem in the Greater Dublin Region has been running for some years towithin five percent of capacity. This level is much higher than in some other countries and leaves little or no room for manoeuvre in the event of breakdown, drought or need to expand. Ideally, the margin between demand and capacity should be of the order of thirty-five to fortypercent. The reduction in demand that has accompanied the recession isnot enough to widen the margin in a significant way.

The principal rock in Kildare and other midland counties is limestone,and the local groundwater is rich in lime with levels of up to 450-500 parts per million. This is a very hard water, and so it is blended with the Poulaphouca product, reducing the lime content to 220-230 parts.

It might be of interest to note that the water in the Liffey reservoirat Leixlip has a hardness level of of 80-200 parts per million, waterin Athy ranges from 200-300, and in Monasterevin from 205-260. Hardness levels in the Poulaphouca supply rarely go above 70 parts per million.


Softening at Source
While this might seem like a good idea, the cost would be prohibitive, not just for the council but also for taxpayers and ratepayers. The extra cost of softening plant would inhibit the development of necessary additional water sources, or some other public facilities, e.g, inhospitals, schools, railways, roads, sewerage systems etc. There arealso implications for health in the use of some water softening techniques. (Softening at source would affect the entire supply,including drinking water.)

In addition to the cost and health aspects, there is the issue of thesame kind of wastage as that already inherent in existing water systems.At present, all the water in public supplies is treated to drinking standards: but drinking-quality is not required for washing cars, or floors or for flushing toilets (the latter is the biggest user of wateris most households). Elimination of this waste aspect at source would require the laying of a second set of water mains and supply lines forthe entire country. The same considerations would arise in the case ofwater softening. For example, soft water is not necessary for toiletflushing or for horticultural or agricultural use.


Communication
I understand that some people in Kildare received no prior notification of the change to blended water. While that was not intended, neither isit acceptable. If you were one of those people, please accept my apology– belated though it may be. With regard to the communication issue generally, this will be reviewed.

I hope I have answered at least some of your questions. I realise that the change has raised issues of concern to you, and I understand the points that you make. It would have been far easier for us to continue to deliver Poulaphoucawater to your house and those of your neighbours, and naturally we would have preferred to do that. But we are obliged to deal with a limited resource and to supplement it in the best way that we can. It was because of that that we chose blending as a compromise which would at least mitigate the effects of hard water.

aodh_rua

Thanks for posting that NedNew - can I paste it onto our Facebook page?

NedNew2

aodh_rua wrote: »

Thanks for posting that NedNew - can I paste it onto our Facebook page?

Sure, no problem!

madds

I'm living in Leixlip and while I haven't noticed any discernible change in the standard of the water when making tea etc. What I have noticed is that our shower head is getting blocked once a month with a build up of lime scale - we unblocked it by soaking the shower head in vinegar overnight but 3 weeks later it's blocked again causing the hot water feed to get unbearably hot. Just wondering is this an indication of hard water?

aodh_rua

madds wrote: »

I'm living in Leixlip and while I haven't noticed any discernible change in the standard of the water when making tea etc. What I have noticed is that our shower head is getting blocked once a month with a build up of lime scale - we unblocked it by soaking the shower head in vinegar overnight but 3 weeks later it's blocked again causing the hot water feed to get unbearably hot. Just wondering is this an indication of hard water?

Lime build-up is an indication of hard water. Leixlip is on a different supply to the one being discussed here, but you should follow up with your local reps if it's causing problems.

32finn

NedNew2 wrote: »

Please find below a detailed and informative response from Kildare County Council after I sent them an email about the new hard water supply:

Thanks for your reaction to the blended water: I'll try to deal withthe points you raise.

Why Blending?
The water supply to County Kildare has developed as part of a regional system. In the 1930s, it was decided to provide both a water supply anda source of hydroelectricity at Poulaphouca. At that time, County Kildare's supply was taken from groundwater (wells and springs) and from some surface water sources (e.g., the Liffey at Athgarvan). Over subsequent years the county's population increased: this gave rise to a requirement for larger-scale water production and the economies of scale that that would entail, and so led to use of the Poulaphouca supply which moved westward across the county as far as Rathangan and north-westwards to the Carbury area. The development of a reservoir, again for consumption and hydroelectricity, at Leixlip offered a source for the north-eastern part of the county. The southern part of the county relied mainly on groundwater.

So, much of Kildare's water was sourced from within the greater Dublin supply (Poulaphouca being a Dublin City Council/ESB operation, and Leixlip being operated by Fingal County Council and the ESB). The last two decades saw rapid expansion in demand for water because of: growing numbers of households, rising industrial activity and increasing use within households. This rising demand in the region prompted the development of indigenous sources in County Kildare, and projects based on water from wellfields in the west and mid-west of the county and on abstraction from the River Barrow at Athy were developed. These arecurrently at various stages from planning to use.

You make a good point that there should be less demand now that business and other activities have decreased. However, the water supplysystem in the Greater Dublin Region has been running for some years towithin five percent of capacity. This level is much higher than in some other countries and leaves little or no room for manoeuvre in the event of breakdown, drought or need to expand. Ideally, the margin between demand and capacity should be of the order of thirty-five to fortypercent. The reduction in demand that has accompanied the recession isnot enough to widen the margin in a significant way.

The principal rock in Kildare and other midland counties is limestone,and the local groundwater is rich in lime with levels of up to 450-500 parts per million. This is a very hard water, and so it is blended with the Poulaphouca product, reducing the lime content to 220-230 parts.

It might be of interest to note that the water in the Liffey reservoirat Leixlip has a hardness level of of 80-200 parts per million, waterin Athy ranges from 200-300, and in Monasterevin from 205-260. Hardness levels in the Poulaphouca supply rarely go above 70 parts per million.


Softening at Source
While this might seem like a good idea, the cost would be prohibitive, not just for the council but also for taxpayers and ratepayers. The extra cost of softening plant would inhibit the development of necessary additional water sources, or some other public facilities, e.g, inhospitals, schools, railways, roads, sewerage systems etc. There arealso implications for health in the use of some water softening techniques. (Softening at source would affect the entire supply,including drinking water.)

In addition to the cost and health aspects, there is the issue of thesame kind of wastage as that already inherent in existing water systems.At present, all the water in public supplies is treated to drinking standards: but drinking-quality is not required for washing cars, or floors or for flushing toilets (the latter is the biggest user of wateris most households). Elimination of this waste aspect at source would require the laying of a second set of water mains and supply lines forthe entire country. The same considerations would arise in the case ofwater softening. For example, soft water is not necessary for toiletflushing or for horticultural or agricultural use.


Communication
I understand that some people in Kildare received no prior notification of the change to blended water. While that was not intended, neither isit acceptable. If you were one of those people, please accept my apology– belated though it may be. With regard to the communication issue generally, this will be reviewed.

I hope I have answered at least some of your questions. I realise that the change has raised issues of concern to you, and I understand the points that you make. It would have been far easier for us to continue to deliver Poulaphoucawater to your house and those of your neighbours, and naturally we would have preferred to do that. But we are obliged to deal with a limited resource and to supplement it in the best way that we can. It was because of that that we chose blending as a compromise which would at least mitigate the effects of hard water.

So what they are saying is that they have lowered the standard of our drinking water because we wash ourselves and flush our toilets!! What a shower of D*******s ther is in Kildare C.C and running this sham of a country. Oh and for the pleasure of using this this new water they are going to start charging us for it next year! They are sitting in they're council offices and in there parliment seats laughing in the faces of the Irish public.
Time for my family and i, (like so many others) to get the hell out of this Country. There is no way i would want my daughter growing up here with the amount of crooks involved in politics here. They are as bad as any Sadam Hussien or Kim Jong-il

245

NedNew2 wrote: »

Please find below a detailed and informative response from Kildare County Council after I sent them an email about the new hard water supply:

Communication
I understand that some people in Kildare received no prior notification of the change to blended water. While that was not intended, neither isit acceptable. If you were one of those people, please accept my apology– belated though it may be. With regard to the communication issue generally, this will be reviewed.

They should review their communication on this issue - its a disgrace - I can't find any information about this on their website, just the overview here:

http://kildare.ie/countycouncil/waterservices/WaterSupply/WaterQuality/

According to the Leinster Leader, this blended supply is going to be rolled out to other areas in mid Kildare but where's the communication from those involved?

aah yes

If the hardness of the water exceeds 200 ppm total hardness (limescale) then domestic water softeners would be advisable.

In most of the Galway County water schemes the total hardness is around 400 ppm and it shows fairly quickly.

Water softeners have really come down in price however, equipment quality such as in Clack metered systems are now at an exceptionally good level and a number of WQA.org (Water Quality Association) member firms are offering very good service and prices.

Top end Clack water softeners now sell from 350 euros, have a 30 to 40 year life, they need servicing only every 15 to 20 years, and run on as low as 20 euros per year for salt in Kildare or around 3 bags per year for metered systems if sold and calibrated by good WQA member firms.

Two good firms to contact are ...

Watersource with two bases, in Goatstown and Emo, contact Mike Robson on <snip>

Smart Water Solutions, serving the East of the country, Kildare etc, contact Heinrich Leisner on <snip>


Both companies are WQA members and Clack equipment specialists. At least if you have to buy a water softener, look for value for money and expertise.

skullduggery

If you're noticing lime building up on your hot and cold water fittings then you'll need to get the water softened. There's no real alternative.

However be very careful when sourcing a supplier because there are some very smooth talking, fear inducing people out there who scare people into buying very expensive systems and then talk them into entering expensive ongoing mainteneance and service agreements.

I have a softener. I went local so if I needed the equipment serviced or salt I could get it sorted quickly. Also, I went with someone who was recommended to me and when I rang them checked the following:

(1) were they locally based (ie within Kildare)
(2) how long were they in business
(3) had they installed any systems near me

One guy I rang told me I needed a €2000 system without even asking if I was on the mains!!!! Be careful and don't go with necessarily the cheapest system, go with the company you think will do a good job and look after your concerns who are long established.

aah yes

Rock solid advice skullduggery, get the best company within short travel distance for back up, with plenty of references.

Don't pay mad prices, but avoid very small, timer based, or cheapish systems, do a bit of research. Avoid salesmen types, just stick to technical stuff and facts.

Acid test is no obligation callouts, no sales pressure whatsoever, definitely no deposits or contracts, only pay when the job is complete and you are happy with what was promised was provided and expertly installed.

Was the company on time, do their vans look fully and professionally kitted out, not full of junk, proper brochures and business cards, do they answer their phone. Do they sound like easy going, decent, ethical, friendly, helpful chaps ?

skullduggery

agree with you gws.
have to say the company that installed mine didn't have the professional van/card/signs stuff but I got personal service and it was clear from the first time I talked to them that the man knew his stuff and knew my area.

BuffyBot

gws, do you have any connection with Clack, or anyone who supplies that product (specifically those you mention)?