Grandmother jailed over WWII 'family heirloom' pistol

funnyname

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/10335003.stm

5 years is a bit harsh!

A grandmother has been jailed for five years for possessing a "family heirloom" World War II pistol.

Gail Cochrane, 53, had kept the gun for 29 years following the death of her father, who had been in the Royal Navy.

Police found the weapon, a Browning self-loading pistol, during a search of her home in Dundee while looking for her son.

She admitted illegal possession of the firearm, an offence with a minimum five-year jail term under Scots law.

Cochrane told the High Court in Edinburgh that she had never contemplated she might be committing a crime by keeping the gun or that she might need to get a licence for the weapon.

She said: "I thought it was just a war trophy."

Defence solicitor advocate Jack Brown argued that the circumstances surrounding the case were exceptional and that it would be "draconian, unjust and disproportionate" to jail the grandmother-of-six.
Prohibited weapon

However, Judge Lady Smith said: "I am not satisfied that a reasonable explanation has been put forward for not handing this gun into the authorities throughout the 29-year period she says she has had it in her possession."

The judge said she was unable to find herself satisfied that this was one of the rare cases in which exceptional circumstances existed.

She said: "The result is I have no alternative but to sentence Mrs Cochrane to a period of five years."

The case began after police arrived at the 53-year-old's home on 17 June 2009 with an arrest warrant for her son who had failed to turn up for a court appearance.

He was not at the flat, but the 80-year-old pistol was found underneath a mattress in her bedroom.

When interviewed, Cochrane told police that the gun had previously belonged to her father and that she had kept it when he died.

She said she believed it was a real gun, but had no ammunition for it.

The weapon was sent for examination by firearms experts who concluded that it was a Czech-made pistol dating back to about 1927.

Cochrane admitted having the 7.65 millimetre Browning self-loading pistol at her home without a firearms certificate and possessing the prohibited weapon without the authority of the Secretary of State or Scottish ministers.

karma_

The law is an ass.

Euro_Kraut

This is why minimum sentencing is stupid.

giggsy664

What?!

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Hmmm, well the judge did say that he wasn't satisfied that there were exceptional circumstances.
And it was hidden under a mattress....

I dont doubt that it was a WW trophy orignally but courts would loathe to prosecute someone truly innocent, maybe it was being kept for the wrong reasons.

There's not a huge amount of info there but I would be inclined to accept that the court reached their judgement for good reasons

Giselle

If its an heirloom, why keep it under her mattress?

I think the judge probably knows something the article doesn't mention since she found no 'exceptional circumstances'.

And just because she's a granny doesn't automatically make her a good person.

Edit: SlasherMcG beat me to it and said it better.

plein de force

she gets 5 years for that
and that evil cnut that killed her 3 year old daughter only got jailed for a few weeks ago for 4 years, wish she'd have been tried there

5 years.. Ridiculous. Scumbags with 50 convictions get less.

Run_to_da_hills

A few questions that the cops would take into consideration,

Was the gun "disabled" ie firing pin removed, barrel filled solid with lead?.
Why was it hidden under a mattress?
Was her son who was on the run aware of its location?
The fact that rounds could be easily sourced for that gun would mean nothing to them whether she had them or not.

It looks to me as if she was covering for him and is now paying the price.

Giselle

Deleted User wrote: »

5 years.. Ridiculous. Scumbags with 50 convictions get less.

Well, its a serious offence.

She had an illegal firearm. An unregistered one. She never declared it, in all those years. She kept it hidden. She had a son the police were interested in in the house.

Can you imagine how valuable an unregistered hand gun is to a crimminal?

The judge found no reason not to apply the minimum sentance - no judical discretion.

Justice was done in the eyes of the law.

Ali Babba

If this is the case half of Limerick should be locked up so...............

epgc3fyqirnbsx

In fairness, there is a lot grumbling on how easy our justice system is on criminals (especially in AH)
And we are always saying that there should be tougher laws to deal with criminal gangs.

If legislation was brought in in Ireland that had a 5 year minimum sentence for being in possession of an unlicenced handgun I have absolutely no doubt that it would be universally welcomed.

This is obviously a law that is in place in Scotland and it was applied.
And as Giselle said, it was mandatory ie no judicial discretion, and justice was done.

Shouldn't be compared to other crimes where lenient sentences were applied when we are upset about the leniency anyway - rather we should be looking for tighter controls all around, if that is what we want

Giselle

Ali Babba wrote: »

If this is the case half of Limerick should be locked up so...............

You'll get no argument from me.:)*






*because its late.

Lando Griffin

She was pension herself after getting that sentence.

bazmaiden

Lando Griffin wrote: »

She was pension herself after getting that sentence.

Fcuk yeah!!! love it

NTMK

Would the gun even fire now its over 60 years old??

It wasn't me!

NTMK wrote: »

Would the gun even fire now its over 60 years old??

Very definitely. I've shot firearms from the late ninteenth century. Provided it's not ridiculously abused, it'd work fine.

partyatmygaff

NTMK wrote: »

Would the gun even fire now its over 60 years old??

Why wouldn't it? The guns of that time weren't exactly complex.

It wasn't me!

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Why wouldn't it? The guns of that time weren't exactly complex.

To be absolutely fair, for the most part, the technology hasn't changed since a period between about 1890 and 1940. That's when all the developments really occurred. Hell, many consider the epitome of pistol design to have been reached in 1911. Modern firearms for the most part are no more complex than their counterparts of that time.

m@cc@

The case began after police arrived at the 53-year-old's home on 17 June 2009 with an arrest warrant for her son who had failed to turn up for a court appearance.

He was not at the flat, but the 80-year-old pistol was found underneath a mattress in her bedroom.

I'm confused, surely there's a difference between an arrest warrant and a search warrant? There's some part of this story we're not hearing.

Manic Moran

Another blow struck against gun-toting violent criminals in our society...

I'm confused, surely there's a difference between an arrest warrant and a search warrant? There's some part of this story we're not hearing.

That's actually a good point. Depending on what you're looking for, even a search warrant may not authorise you to look under a mattress, for example. eg: Looking for a stolen TV, you can't open up a jewelery box.

NTM

SandStone

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'm confused, surely there's a difference between an arrest warrant and a search warrant? There's some part of this story we're not hearing.

Indeed, did they expect to find the son under the mattress, or were they on a "fishing expedition"?

kowloon

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'm confused, surely there's a difference between an arrest warrant and a search warrant? There's some part of this story we're not hearing.

If they find something incriminating they can do you for it, even if it wasdn't the purpose of the warrant. They were probably looking under the beds for son they were there to arrest.

AFAIK there is a minimum sentence for firearms offences here.

m@cc@

kowloon wrote: »

If they find something incriminating they can do you for it, even if it wasdn't the purpose of the warrant. They were probably looking under the beds for son they were there to arrest.

Does an arrest warrant permit you to search for a person?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

m@cc@ wrote: »

I'm confused, surely there's a difference between an arrest warrant and a search warrant? There's some part of this story we're not hearing.

Yes there absolutely is, but this is reported from a paper and not a court. It must have been a search warrant or evidence wouldn't be permissable.

To obtain a search warrant you need approval from a judge for a reasonable suspicion of illegal activity

You then find an unlicenced handgun under a mattress...

jimmycrackcorm

Is it April 1st already. Like I missed Christmas.

m@cc@

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Is it April 1st already. Like I missed Christmas.

Don't really know what point it is you're trying to make.

I like the way the headline uses 'grandmother' to imply she's an OAP. She's 53 and could easily be aiding a criminal.

Victor

Cochrane told the High Court in Edinburgh that she had never contemplated she might be committing a crime by keeping the gun or that she might need to get a licence for the weapon.

She said she believed it was a real gun, but had no ammunition for it.

Hmmmm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_massacre

Tar.Aldarion

Obv sounds a bit dodge with the mattress there, son etc. but shure why not, rabble rabble rabble

Overheal

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

This is why minimum sentencing is stupid.

No..... Thats why there is a Supreme Court. Minimum Sentences still work. Exceptional circumstances such as these typically go to a High Court. a High Court ruling can amend an existing law.

OP

OP wrote:

She admitted illegal possession of the firearm, an offence with a minimum five-year jail term under Scots law.

Just like Branigan's law.

Oblomov

The questions arising, yer honour,

Whose bed was it found under? I fully realise that a gun or guns under the mattress of a bed would be considered a 'quick' hiding place, but, with due consideration, a gun amongst the dust 'under' the bed and showing no signs of use would give rise to a different connotation as to its possible use. I would also submit and question the searching under a bed for a missing person was within the remit for teh arrest warrant.

I would ask the learned consul to also consider the exact reason for the absence of her son from the court and the charges the son was facing?

Further more, and with trepidation, I would like consideration for the family history and any other members of the 'family' to be made known before I would or could determine the exact cause for possession of the firearm, working or otherwise,

As a closing comment, exactly what rank and term of service did the 'grand father complete and the possible overseas travel did this encompass during his period of military service?


LOL

Bet we're not going to find that out. A quick google didn't reveal anything else but didn't search the Dundee papers or court records....Too much not known ....... but as a story on face value, ahhh, poor grannie, a photo in e-wire of her, she looks surprisingly fit and well, LOL and nothing like her 53 years of age.

Oblomov

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2010/06/17/newsstory15234208t0.asp

The plot thickens

she said the explanation begged the question of what it was doing hidden under the mattress.

It doesn't beg the bloody question, it raises it. Go back to school, judge lady :mad:

Oblomov

Using the wording of begged the question gives it greater emphasis than just raises the question.....

to beg ..to implore but raise...... ohh, by the way sort of inference

Oblomov

Oblomov wrote: »

Using the wording of begged the question gives it greater emphasis than just raises the question.....

Begging the question means to dodge or avoid a point, or even circular argument. It has nothing to do with questions being provoked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Of course if we define everything by common use it'll have to mean "to prompt the question", but it's still irritating.

pickarooney

They were looking under the mattress for her son? Just how skinny is this guy?

--Kaiser--

bluewolf wrote: »

Begging the question means to dodge or avoid a point, or even circular argument. It has nothing to do with questions being provoked

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Of course if we define everything by common use it'll have to mean "to prompt the question", but it's still irritating.

Re: Begging the question, AA Gills article on the subject

"perhaps the first time any expression has been made extinct by its own definition"

Capt'n Midnight

NTMK wrote: »

Would the gun even fire now its over 60 years old??

IIRC the main problem is the ammunition. Very old guns would use gunpowder or other slower burning propellant and might not stand up to the pressure of modern munitions. Also some over time some stresses in the metal may have come in to play.

But it would be almost as lethal as the day it was made.

Capt'n Midnight

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

This is why minimum sentencing is stupid.

It's up to the judge to decide if the sentence should have been imposed. He decided that there were no exceptional circumstances and that's when the minimum kicked in.




There have been several amnesties for weapons there.

There has been a recent killing spree there.

The gun wasn't kept in a secure place, duty of care and all that.

If she is 53 now then she was born in '57. Back then the Brits were hanging people in Cyprus for possession of guns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evagoras_Pallikarides

NothingMan

Oblomov wrote: »

a photo in e-wire of her, she looks surprisingly fit and well, LOL and nothing like her 53 years of age.

Really?