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3 day split?
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15-06-2010 9:59pm#1
Comments
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Hi Johnn
Can you give a little more detail about yourself? Sex, Height, weight, length of time lifting. Also an idea of a typical days food & liquid intake would be helpful.
Diet will be an important factor in you dropping body fat.
Also have you heard of the programs- Starting Strength http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki
- Strong Lifts 5x5 http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/
I know the routine you outlined includes compound lifts but I would question- What "machine" are you doing box squats on and why 2 sets of squats on day 1.
- On day 2 there seems to be more chest work than back work.
- Day 3 is just arms. Your arms get worked well with heavy compound lifts, so IMHO devoting a whole day to just arms is a bit of a waste and is not going to do much for your goal of dropping body fat.
Finally I don't see any High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) or conditioning workouts in your routine. Some short (20 mins) sharp HIIT or conditioning workouts will help with fat Loss. I use the rower or crosstrainer for my HIIT. I would do 10-12 intervals of 1min 20 secs flat out with 1 min recoveries with 5-10 minutes warm-up/cool down also. I do these twice a week. And twice a week I do a similar conditioning workout to the video below, which is really good for fat burning and getting definition. Also have a look at the Crossfit web sites. Their daily workouts are quite short and intense, and will help with fat burning.
Best Regards,
M0 -
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Hi Johnn
Can you give a little more detail about yourself? Sex, Height, weight, length of time lifting. Also an idea of a typical days food & liquid intake would be helpful.
Diet will be an important factor in you dropping body fat.
Also have you heard of the programs- Starting Strength http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki
- Strong Lifts 5x5 http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/
I know the routine you outlined includes compound lifts but I would question- What "machine" are you doing box squats on and why 2 sets of squats on day 1.
- On day 2 there seems to be more chest work than back work.
- Day 3 is just arms. Your arms get worked well with heavy compound lifts, so IMHO devoting a whole day to just arms is a bit of a waste and is not going to do much for your goal of dropping body fat.
Finally I don't see any High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) or conditioning workouts in your routine. Some short (20 mins) sharp HIIT or conditioning workouts will help with fat Loss. I use the rower or crosstrainer for my HIIT. I would do 10-12 intervals of 1min 20 secs flat out with 1 min recoveries with 5-10 minutes warm-up/cool down also. I do these twice a week. And twice a week I do a similar conditioning workout to the video below, which is really good for fat burning and getting definition. Also have a look at the Crossfit web sites. Their daily workouts are quite short and intense, and will help with fat burning.
Best Regards,
M
thank you for the reponse
Diet/stats
I am 5,9", Male weighing 73kgs at the moment.
My diet was all over the place still eating crap whilst training but i am trying to turn it around now, my eating times can be a little all over the place as im unemployed and sometimes will wake up real early for the gym or sometimes go around 9pm.
what i ate yesterday was
-2 weetabix(low fat milk)
- Chicken stir-fry( chicken, peppers, onions, noodles, carrots, stir fry oil)
- Protein shake
- 2 weetabix (low fat milk)
- 2 slices wholegrain toast
- scrambled eggs
- microwaved cauliflower as a snack
-3 litres of water
- cod liver oil supplement
i woke up late this day so it was nearly time for dinner after i had the weetabix. are the eggs a good idea when trying to lose fat as they are quite fattening
box-squat machine
The machine was a thing where i leaned my back into it, putting my feet up on a platform at the end so my body was leaning diagonally across, the shoulders sat back under this padded area with handles, i then lifted it and took out these safety pins holding the weight and did squats down at an angle, you put the plates on the outside of this machine. is this actually box-squats or am i thinking of something else?
Weight too light?
I am lifting for about a year on started with free weights at the start of this year, i was doing a lot of dumbell related stuff, only compound lift i was doing was the bench press. I started doing squats and deadlifts only last week so was a little worried about hurting myself as my neck and shoulders were very stiff at the end of the first couple of sessions. I find 40kgs pretty easy, i can do the 60kg and find that a challenge to do the 5-6 reps, would i be better off doing say 5x5 of the larger weight than the ten reps of 40kg i had been doing.
Arms day/lack of Hitt
This is the split the trainer gave me the arms day was meant to be today, i had assumed the point of the split was to hit all the muscles over the course of the 3-days? Would you say i should be doing more bench/squats rather than on only one day of the split, id have no problem doing that anyway.
I dont tink we have the kettlebells in the gym, i would maybe do something like that at home if i could get my hands on, wud be a bit self-concious doin something like that in my gym, the only really spacious area is where all the people would be doing their ab crunches!
What about interval sprints on a treadmill? or spinning do these help for conditioning
Starting strength
I thought this would be similar enough to what i was doing e.g. deadlift, squat, bench etc? what differences does this programme advocate?
I wish the trainers in the gym would tell me this stuff when i ask for a programme! im defo willing to put the work in if given the right workout
So only lifting weights wont remove the fat without doing so intense conditioning also? the trainer told me to give up spin as it would "eat into my muscle"0 -
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Hi Johnn
First let me just say that I hold no qualifications in physical training or nutrition. I am just an normal guy who is into being fit and healthy. My comments are based on things I have tried myself or read and which I believe to be true or which have been validated by folks who I believe know what they are talking about.
Now to the points you raised.
Diet & Stats: Can I ask your age? younger folks tend to have a higher metabolism then older folks, and so need more calories for the same weight/height.
At 5' 9" and 73kg I don't see you as in anyway over weight. I am 3 inches smaller than you and 4kg heavier and feel I could easily handle being 5-6kg heavier again
As for your diet, well it's not the worst I have ever seen, but it's not the best either. Especially when your goal is to drop body fat. IMHO it's easy to gain and lose weight. But when you goal is to gain lean mass or to lose body fat, then I think that you need to be a little more clinical in your approach. Firstly you should know how many calories you require daily just to maintain your current weight. Then you set about creating a small deficit, around 350-500 calories daily.
Something that sticks out about your current diet is the amount of starch based carbs you are consuming and this can hinder fat loss. Also depending on portion sizes, you may not be getting enough calories daily.
Finally on this point, weetabix is not the best choice for breakfast. Plain Oats with maybe some mixed seeds and a few nuts mixed in would be a better option.
Your diet will be the main factor in dropping body fat, so if you hav enot done already, I urge you to read through the stickied posts on both this forum and the Diet & Nutrition forum, as there is a wealth of information in them about putting together a clean, healthy diet.
Squat Machine: As has already been pointed out, what you are doing are Hack Squats, not box squats. Here is a video showing a box squat
Weight of Weights: The most important thing when you start with the compound lifts it to get the technique correct. So using light weight at the beginning is ok. Once you have mastered the technique you can start to add weight. I mentioned the weights as things like 40kg dead lifts just seemed a little light. especially when you are squatting 60kg.
Arms day & lack of HIIT: Again the muscles in the arms are relatively small and get worked out when doing compound lifts. One or two sets for biceps or triceps along with the compound lifts, would IMHO be more than sufficient. A whole routine dedicated to arms just seems like a waste and could possibly lead to over training, which can hinder progress.
HIIT is one of the best and fastest ways to cut body fat. It's not that only lifting weight will not reduce fat. It can. The more lean muscle mass you have, the more fat you can burn off and the faster you can burn it of. But it is not easy to gain just lean mass. So as you want to get lean for the summer (which is already here), then you will get results quicker with HIIT. Plus lifting heavy weight while cutting fat helps to preserve your existing muscle mass.
You could do HIIT on a spin bike. Start off with maybe 1 minute flat out and then 90 secs - 2 mins recovery. Do this for maybe 8-10 fast sessions. When you get used to it, start to increase slightly the fast part and/or decrease the rest.
The treadmill does not really lend itself to HIIT as it takes too long to transition from walking/jogging to flat out and back. The rower and crosstrainer are better options. Of course there is no reason why you could not do HIIT running outside in a park etc.
Starting Strenght: has you doing 3 full body workouts per week. The program you have has you doing a Legs day, a Chest and Back day & a shoulder and arms day. Also in my unqualified opinion it is not the most balanced program. IMHO Starting Strength or Strong Lifts would be much better and I like the way they have you progress as it's great for motivation to see yourself getting stronger and more defined. Try it for 2 or 3 months and see what you think. You can always come back to this routine if you are not happy. But give it a fair go if you decide to try it, so you have time to see the results.
Programs from Trainers in commercial Gyms: To be honest your program is similar to a lot of programs I and seen which are provided by gym trainers. Yours was actually one of the better ones, as you had some compound lifts and free weights. A lot of them have the client doing machine weights and getting nowhere.
If you think you might like to try kettlebells, then check out this site http://www.buykettlebelldublin.com/ They run a basic KB workshop usually monthly. It's run in either the bridgefoot fitness center or RAW gym. The cost was €55 and this includes a 16kg KB to take away with you and a 40 page booklet with different exercises. The workshop is 3.5 hours long and you get instruction on the proper technique for the basic lifts. 1 KB is all you need for the conditioning workout from my last post. And they are a seriously good workout. If you do a workshop, expect to seriously ache for a day or two after
Well apologies for this post going on so long. If you've managed to stay awake till now, you probably have eye strain
I hope this has answered some of your questions and given you something to think about.
Best Regards,
M0 -
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Regarding HIIT, would 3 x 2 minute sessions with a punchbag suffice, alternated with some 3 x 2 minutes skipping?
Hi Toplink
I have honestly no idea how suitable either of these pursuits would be for HIIT, but my instinct is telling me no.
For a fairly fit person a HIIT session should last about 20 minutes + maybe 5 mins warm up and 5-10 mins warm down. IMHO 3 x 2 minute sessions is not enough work to reap the benefit of HIIT.
The idea of the work session is to go as hard as you can for a short period of time, usually a minute or so, then recover and go again 8-10 times. You should be totally fcuked at the end of the session. Vision blurred, unsteady on feet, heart beating out of chest, gasping for breath, feeling physically sick etc. If not, then you haven't done HIIT
I know I can get this way on the cross trainer and rower and on a spinning bike. But I am not so sure that I could put myself in that state with either skipping or punch bag. Though in saying that I can't skip for nuts and have no experience with a punch bag. Maybe an MMA person or boxer could work at the proper intensity on these for HIIT.
Best Regards,
M0 -
Hi Johnn
First let me just say that I hold no qualifications in physical training or nutrition. I am just an normal guy who is into being fit and healthy. My comments are based on things I have tried myself or read and which I believe to be true or which have been validated by folks who I believe know what they are talking about.
Now to the points you raised.
Diet & Stats: Can I ask your age? younger folks tend to have a higher metabolism then older folks, and so need more calories for the same weight/height.
At 5' 9" and 73kg I don't see you as in anyway over weight. I am 3 inches smaller than you and 4kg heavier and feel I could easily handle being 5-6kg heavier again
As for your diet, well it's not the worst I have ever seen, but it's not the best either. Especially when your goal is to drop body fat. IMHO it's easy to gain and lose weight. But when you goal is to gain lean mass or to lose body fat, then I think that you need to be a little more clinical in your approach. Firstly you should know how many calories you require daily just to maintain your current weight. Then you set about creating a small deficit, around 350-500 calories daily.
Something that sticks out about your current diet is the amount of starch based carbs you are consuming and this can hinder fat loss. Also depending on portion sizes, you may not be getting enough calories daily.
Finally on this point, weetabix is not the best choice for breakfast. Plain Oats with maybe some mixed seeds and a few nuts mixed in would be a better option.
Your diet will be the main factor in dropping body fat, so if you hav enot done already, I urge you to read through the stickied posts on both this forum and the Diet & Nutrition forum, as there is a wealth of information in them about putting together a clean, healthy diet.
Squat Machine: As has already been pointed out, what you are doing are Hack Squats, not box squats. Here is a video showing a box squat
Weight of Weights: The most important thing when you start with the compound lifts it to get the technique correct. So using light weight at the beginning is ok. Once you have mastered the technique you can start to add weight. I mentioned the weights as things like 40kg dead lifts just seemed a little light. especially when you are squatting 60kg.
Arms day & lack of HIIT: Again the muscles in the arms are relatively small and get worked out when doing compound lifts. One or two sets for biceps or triceps along with the compound lifts, would IMHO be more than sufficient. A whole routine dedicated to arms just seems like a waste and could possibly lead to over training, which can hinder progress.
HIIT is one of the best and fastest ways to cut body fat. It's not that only lifting weight will not reduce fat. It can. The more lean muscle mass you have, the more fat you can burn off and the faster you can burn it of. But it is not easy to gain just lean mass. So as you want to get lean for the summer (which is already here), then you will get results quicker with HIIT. Plus lifting heavy weight while cutting fat helps to preserve your existing muscle mass.
You could do HIIT on a spin bike. Start off with maybe 1 minute flat out and then 90 secs - 2 mins recovery. Do this for maybe 8-10 fast sessions. When you get used to it, start to increase slightly the fast part and/or decrease the rest.
The treadmill does not really lend itself to HIIT as it takes too long to transition from walking/jogging to flat out and back. The rower and crosstrainer are better options. Of course there is no reason why you could not do HIIT running outside in a park etc.
Starting Strenght: has you doing 3 full body workouts per week. The program you have has you doing a Legs day, a Chest and Back day & a shoulder and arms day. Also in my unqualified opinion it is not the most balanced program. IMHO Starting Strength or Strong Lifts would be much better and I like the way they have you progress as it's great for motivation to see yourself getting stronger and more defined. Try it for 2 or 3 months and see what you think. You can always come back to this routine if you are not happy. But give it a fair go if you decide to try it, so you have time to see the results.
Programs from Trainers in commercial Gyms: To be honest your program is similar to a lot of programs I and seen which are provided by gym trainers. Yours was actually one of the better ones, as you had some compound lifts and free weights. A lot of them have the client doing machine weights and getting nowhere.
If you think you might like to try kettlebells, then check out this site http://www.buykettlebelldublin.com/ They run a basic KB workshop usually monthly. It's run in either the bridgefoot fitness center or RAW gym. The cost was €55 and this includes a 16kg KB to take away with you and a 40 page booklet with different exercises. The workshop is 3.5 hours long and you get instruction on the proper technique for the basic lifts. 1 KB is all you need for the conditioning workout from my last post. And they are a seriously good workout. If you do a workshop, expect to seriously ache for a day or two after
Well apologies for this post going on so long. If you've managed to stay awake till now, you probably have eye strain
I hope this has answered some of your questions and given you something to think about.
Best Regards,
M
Yeah B-Builder you would be correct that im not overweight at all really but looking to get the six-pack and i sort of have a soft chest and arms when they're not flexed so that's why im tryin to get rid of the bodyfat. its annoying me the amount of time im spending in the gym without getting better in that regard, partially cos i know myself im probably not doing the right stuff in my time down there, take for example day 1 of that split took me a good 1.5 hrs to do!
so with regards to the diet what ive probably been thinking is to cut bodyfat, not eat alot but eat a decent bit of protein, when i should be eating near enough my maintenance but all good foods? what were the starchy carbs there the bread and the noodles?
yeah ill have to reintroduce the conditioning i had been thinking the weight lifting was enough since i has heard numerous people in the gym saying not to bother with the spin etc!0 -
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Hi Toplink
I have honestly no idea how suitable either of these pursuits would be for HIIT, but my instinct is telling me no.
For a fairly fit person a HIIT session should last about 20 minutes + maybe 5 mins warm up and 5-10 mins warm down. IMHO 3 x 2 minute sessions is not enough work to reap the benefit of HIIT.
The idea of the work session is to go as hard as you can for a short period of time, usually a minute or so, then recover and go again 8-10 times. You should be totally fcuked at the end of the session. Vision blurred, unsteady on feet, heart beating out of chest, gasping for breath, feeling physically sick etc. If not, then you haven't done HIIT
I know I can get this way on the cross trainer and rower and on a spinning bike. But I am not so sure that I could put myself in that state with either skipping or punch bag. Though in saying that I can't skip for nuts and have no experience with a punch bag. Maybe an MMA person or boxer could work at the proper intensity on these for HIIT.
Best Regards,
M
I had my first attempt at HIIT there at lunchtime.... JHC.
I was attempting to do :
7 x 1 minute sprints mixed 7 x 2 minute jogs to rest. I got to 4 and couldn't do anymore. Shattered.
A one minute sprint feels like 10 minutes when you get to the second set!
Anyway, doing again on Monday and will aim for 5 this time.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRpbM9nzDcM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd3bqquofyI
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