Enda or Richard.

Deise Tom

There is a few staunch Fine Geal Members on here, and I was just wondering, who they should be their leader, Enda or Richard. Or is there someone else within the party that could yet be a dark horse and take over as leader.

pitkan

I`m not a supporter of any party but even the dogs in the street know that Kenny must go.

Liam Byrne

Since you're asking "staunch" FG members, my opinion won't count.

I think both of them deserve a kick up the hole for allowing this spat to happen this week.

darragh o meara

Enda has really acted like a spoilt brat throwing the toys out of the pram this week sacking Richard. I have never really got involved in politics until recently but since I have I can see that Enda has the gob but Richard has the ideas..

I think Richard would be a good finance minister candidate but cant see Enda being Taosieach material.

So I would say Richard

hobochris

I'm not a FG man (or any other party for that matter) would say Richard should be there next leader.

he is a lot more likeable then Kenny.

Ive a feeling Bruton will be a brutal leader too though..finance was his area..he'l be shown to lack the charisma people seem to think is so important too..give it six months..

jmayo

Darragh O Meara wrote: »

Enda has really acted like a spoilt brat throwing the toys out of the pram this week sacking Richard. I have never really got involved in politics until recently but since I have I can see that Enda has the gob but Richard has the ideas..

I think Richard would be a good finance minister candidate but cant see Enda being Taosieach material.

So I would say Richard

Jeeze how naive are some people ?
How can Kenny keep Bruton as his right hand man when he has refused to publicly back him ?
Thus sacking is only option.

I think Bruton has screwed this up badly.
His timing was very bad. he would not say he supported Kenny but would not come out straight away and say he was challenging.
He appeared to be bounced into on Prime Time, instead of keeping stum until today was over and having gathered support before making move.

I reckon FG will get jump if Bruton takes over, but they will be back down in 6 months or a year.
IMHO FG need someone to lead and it ain't either Kenny or Bruton at this stage as they have both been harmed by this.
Don't get me started on coveney, creighton, or Varadker, etc.

Actually I reckon Reilly might be someone decent down the road.
His support and loyalty for Kenny might be his first move on this road.

Pot Noodle =

Bruton all the way

RichardAnd

It makes little difference really. The whole thing reminds me of children in a cresh fighting over who gets the play with the best Lego sets.

Sad Professor

Either way I think Kenny is finished. Strategically, he's played things very well this week. But even if he survives the confidence vote, I think the damage to him and the party will be so great that he will be forced to resign at a later point. But Bruton will have the same problem of trying to reunite the party.

I would infinitely prefer Bruton as leader, but tbh don't really care either way. I'm enjoying watching FG self-destruct.

OMD

Deise Tom wrote: »

There is a few staunch Fine Geal Members on here, and I was just wondering, who they should be their leader, Enda or Richard. Or is there someone else within the party that could yet be a dark horse and take over as leader.

It doesn't really matter what "staunch FG members" think. They will vote FG if they elect a chimp as leader. What counts is whether non FG members think. Personally I would not want Enda as Taoiseach I would be ok with Richard in that position.

Smiley Burnett

It has to be Bruton!! Once he moved against Kenny, the game was up!

Richard Bruton WILL be leader of FG by friday!

p.s. Enda Kenny did a great job in bringing FG back from the dead following 2002 election! Nobody has a bad word to say against him on that score!

Deise Tom

If Enda does win the vote, life could be very tough withing the party for Richard and those that have backed him publically for a considerable length of time. Does anyone see Richard or any of the nine front benchers that have backed him so far, break away from FG and start up a new party, or are they all FG through and through.

MaceFace

Feck them both and allow Brian Hayes the job.
Bruton has not come out of this well at all - I am shocked at how public he has become over the last 24 hours and it has put a shadow on FG.

As long as Kenny goes it should help FG overall though.

Eliot Rosewater

I'm not a FG member, but Brutus all the way!

jmayo

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

It has to be Bruton!! Once he moved against Kenny, the game was up!

Richard Bruton WILL be leader of FG by friday!

p.s. Enda Kenny did a great job in bringing FG back from the dead following 2002 election! Nobody has a bad word to say against him on that score!

Bruton might win, but it will be hollow victory since he has helped split the party.
If he does win and demotes Kenny to backbenches then he has copperfastened that split.
There are a lot of FG members who recognise how much Kenny did after 2002 and if he is dumped totally then Bruton time is short.
He will also have to keep Reilly on board as well.

At this stage I see neither Kenny or Bruton walking away with the prize.
Bruton will be back where he started in finance, Kenny will have ministry and the new leader will be ...

Banned Account

jmayo wrote: »

At this stage I see neither Kenny or Bruton walking away with the prize.
Bruton will be back where he started in finance, Kenny will have ministry and the new leader will be ...

... Mary Harney.:pac:

jmayo

Fitzcaraldo wrote: »

... Mary Harney.:pac:

I knew you were possibly a closet ffer but a PD :eek::eek::eek:

When you have two polarised groups the common sense approach is often to find a compromise that might be acceptable to both camps.
I think it has reached this point, either that or winner will have to do an awful lot of bridge building.

That is usually why you have the intial heave started by someone else rather then the person who is most likely to get the job.
Instead of that Bruton decided to go for it himself and has made a total hames of it.

IrishTonyO

Richard Bruton has done himself no favours with his timing, he couldn't have picked a worse time if he tried! We should be focussing on the banking reports and Brian Cowen but thanks to Richard Bruton, FG are not in a strong position for the vote of confidence in Cowen. Bruton should be ashamed for his actions in weakening his party. He could have waited another a week.
After this I don't think he would make a good Taoiseach and this shows he has a major lack of judgement.
I think for the time being Enda will be leader but a new leader is required, but not Bruton

not_xanthor

Neither. Both were manipulated by media elements trying to deflect attention from FF, and they both fell for it hook line and sinker.

Kenny has proven himself to be a complete and utter fool. He can't keep his cool under pressure, he can't handle the consequences of his actions.

Bruton meanwhile sat too long on the fence, he wouldn't endorse Kenny, he wouldn't make a move.... until he was pushed. He's a local TD, and i think he is a pretty good one, but he's not leadership material... and after this i think many will question his integrity.

Pity their egos got in the way of their talents, together i think they made a potentially good team.

bido

I hope Richard Bruton wins:D

The_Thing

I'm absolutely delighted to watch the blue-shirts tear themselves apart.

Liam Byrne

The_Thing wrote: »

I'm absolutely delighted to watch the blue-shirts tear themselves apart.

Why ?

Sponge Bob

Neither. Kenny is unable to capitalise on the shambles that FF have made of the economy. Bruton has shown zero political cop on organising a heave when a vote of no confidence was proposed.

Some of Brutons supporters were equally ill advised letting him. Bruton has a limited skillset, most of it economic and relatively little social or political nous along with that.

FG would really be advised to skip a generation, no Veradkar this time ....maybe when he learns the virtue of timing...and never Coveney who is clueless about everything. But Kenny will survive until after the next election IMO. The 'rebellion' is a load of wind and piss in the media and inside the M50.

Clann na Talmhan for the urban classes in fact

The FG grassroots will give these rebels an awful earbashing over the next 48 hours and Kenny will survive in my opinion. Blueshirts simply do not like Haughey style shenanigans and will assert that difference to their meejia addled TD's.

If I were Kenny , I would permanently sack Coveney, Naughten, Mitchell, , Creed, Timmins, and Hayes for being thick useless gob****es anyway aand would find something to do for O Dowd Enright and Veradkar to prove themselves capable of learning.

Agriculture, Gaeltacht/Rural Affairs and Social Welfare come to mind. Veradkar would love Gaeltacht and Rural Affairs so he would and it would give Enda lots of excuses to send Veradkar out to see the real Ireland that votes FG......and most of it is outside the M50 Leo

Put Bruton in charge of the Public Accounts committee while he is in purdah.

( Note , Sponge Bob is not a Blueshirt)

Smiley Burnett

richard bruton will be leader and the party will unite and come together quite quickly!
this is a leadership challenge borne out of necessity and the fg membership recognise this. there will be no lingering animosity and god help cowen and gilmore when richard bruton takes them on!!!

Sponge Bob

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

richard bruton takes them on!!!

Bruton has no political skills, he has economic skills. He is very like Garrett in that sense. Put him on an election tour to Cork and Cavan and Carlow and he will look like a spare prick ....and will lose the election.

I'd love to hear him field questions on Reps V and on the Water Framework Directive and septic tanks while he does his whistle stop in Caltra.

Smiley Burnett

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Bruton has no political skills, he has economic skills. He is very like Garrett in that sense. Put him on an election tour to Cork and Cavan and Carlow and he will look like a spare prick ....and will lose the election.

I'd love to hear him field questions on Reps V and on the Water Framework Directive and septic tanks while he does his whistle stop in Caltra.

no political skills??? that gave me a laugh!!

Sponge Bob

You may well laugh out the other side of your arse if Richard ever steps off that bus in Clones and tries to spin the magical third seat in Cavan/Monaghan out of the locals...and we all know Labour won't get it.

Bruton has a limited appeal, mostly inside the M50. He evidently has no idea how to win the war there which is where FG are weakest. Therefore he has to win it outside the M50. Not a hope.

I doubt if Veradkar ever leaves Dublin at all, not enough TV studios around for him. Neither Bruton or Veradkar has ever visited Galway on a political matter Smiely and don't even bother posting unless you can prove otherwise.

Euro_Kraut

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why ?

I suppose some people don't really like Fine Gael. Probably those on the Left or hard core FFers. Either way it is not usual for people to object to political parties. FG scored 28% in the last poll. The means close to 3/4 quarters of voters are not supporters of FG and it hardly surprising they are enjoying the spectacle of the party having a open argument with itself. I know I also find political squabbles like this amusing regardless of what party it happens in.

Sponge Bob

Election maths as distinct from opinion polls are _peculiar_ in Ireland. Way it is.

28% of the vote in a 5 seater is generally two seats , if all constituencies were 5 seaters then that would be 40% of seats. In a 4 seater it is one seat only of course

I doubt Labours ability to field a credible candidate in many 3 or 4 seater constituencies where they have no real presence, Galway East where Gilmore comes from is one such. Therefore his poll results will oft amount to nowt IMO. And yet 40% of the vote will not get him 3 seats in Galway West where Labour has a seat and candidates to run with Michael D.

IrishTonyO

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Election maths as distinct from opinion polls are _peculiar_ in Ireland. Way it is.

28% of the vote in a 5 seater is generally two seats , if all constituencies were 5 seaters then that would be 40% of seats. In a 4 seater it is one seat only of course

I doubt Labours ability to field a credible candidate in many 3 or 4 seater constituencies where they have no real presence, Galway East where Gilmore comes from is one such. Therefore his poll results will oft amount to nowt IMO. And yet 40% of the vote will not get him 3 seats in Galway West where Labour has a seat and candidates to run with Michael D.

What's Labour got to do with this thread?

Sponge Bob

IrishTonyO wrote: »

What's Labour got to do with this thread?

Election maths has everything to do with this thread...if you can do them. Maths have a lot to do with economics too but in a purer sense of course

Smiley Burnett

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You may well laugh out the other side of your arse if Richard ever steps off that bus in Clones and tries to spin the magical third seat in Cavan/Monaghan out of the locals...and we all know Labour won't get it.

Bruton has a limited appeal, mostly inside the M50. He evidently has no idea how to win the war there which is where FG are weakest. Therefore he has to win it outside the M50. Not a hope.

I doubt if Veradkar ever leaves Dublin at all, not enough TV studios around for him. Neither Bruton or Veradkar has ever visited Galway on a political matter Smiely and don't even bother posting unless you can prove otherwise.

you do know that Leo Varadkar comes from a farming background in waterford? dont you?? well you do now!

Smiley Burnett

Enda Kenny's problem was his lack of appeal INSIDE the M50!! dublin is the cockpit of any general election held in ireland. problem solved with bruton!!
The posts on here really can be ridiculous at times!

Sponge Bob

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Enda Kenny's problem was his lack of appeal INSIDE the M50!! problem solved with bruton!!

You really are not very good on the zero sum problems are you??

Did you find evidence of any speeches in Galway like I told you to before you came back in here ???

IrishTonyO

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Election maths has everything to do with this thread...if you can do them. Maths have a lot to do with economics too but in a purer sense of course

and labour has what to do here????

Sponge Bob

IrishTonyO wrote: »

and labour has what to do here????

2 quotas , tell me where and how.

Lando Griffin

In true FG fashion i am sticking with Enda no Richard, oh wait Enda no Richard or maybe Enda sorry I mean Richard.

Smiley Burnett

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You really are not very good on the zero sum problems are you??

Did you find evidence of any speeches in Galway like I told you to before you came back in here ???

Richard's addressed the GALWAY chamber of commerce in 2009
http://www.galwaychamber.com/latest_news.asp

are you satisfied now?

Sponge Bob

Smiley Burnett wrote: »

Richard's addressed the GALWAY chamber of commerce in 2009

Goody gumshoes, what did he say ???

jimmycrackcorm

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Richard Bruton has done himself no favours with his timing, he couldn't have picked a worse time if he tried! We should be focussing on the banking reports and Brian Cowen but thanks to Richard Bruton, FG are not in a strong position for the vote of confidence in Cowen. Bruton should be ashamed for his actions in weakening his party. He could have waited another a week.
After this I don't think he would make a good Taoiseach and this shows he has a major lack of judgement.
I think for the time being Enda will be leader but a new leader is required, but not Bruton

The timing mattered not. In fact it was ideal after the recent poll. Nobody is out marching about the banking reports. They were out in their thousands though for some hospital somewhere in the Midlands just in case it might close down.

IrishTonyO

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The timing mattered not. In fact it was ideal after the recent poll. Nobody is out marching about the banking reports. They were out in their thousands though for some hospital somewhere in the Midlands just in case it might close down.

If the timing mattered not, how come you say it was ideal??

femur61

I'm not a staunch supporter of either, only vote for the best party at that particular time. Personally, Enda Kenny is an awful front man, terrrible at giving interviews, on the Late Late show painful and embarrassing to say the least. If was up to the general public to choose the new leader he would certainly fail.

KerranJast

If FG don't dump Kenny now they deserve everything they get in the next election which will probably mean having to give in to a load of Labour policies.

femur61

KerranJast wrote: »

If FG don't dump Kenny now they deserve everything they get in the next election which will probably mean having to give in to a load of Labour policies.

True.

For the record I'm from rural ireland and Kenny makes me cringe.

Lurching

If Enda made Taoiseach, id have to strongly reconsider returning to Ireland during his term.
I have yet to see him have a good idea. He is great at criticising others but can never come up with ways to improve the issues he criticises others over.

All for Bruton.

jmayo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Neither. Kenny is unable to capitalise on the shambles that FF have made of the economy. Bruton has shown zero political cop on organising a heave when a vote of no confidence was proposed.

Some of Brutons supporters were equally ill advised letting him. Bruton has a limited skillset, most of it economic and relatively little social or political nous along with that.

FG would really be advised to skip a generation, no Veradkar this time ....maybe when he learns the virtue of timing...and never Coveney who is clueless about everything. But Kenny will survive until after the next election IMO. The 'rebellion' is a load of wind and piss in the media and inside the M50.

Clann na Talmhan for the urban classes in fact

The FG grassroots will give these rebels an awful earbashing over the next 48 hours and Kenny will survive in my opinion. Blueshirts simply do not like Haughey style shenanigans and will assert that difference to their meejia addled TD's.

If I were Kenny , I would permanently sack Coveney, Naughten, Mitchell, , Creed, Timmins, and Hayes for being thick useless gob****es anyway aand would find something to do for O Dowd Enright and Veradkar to prove themselves capable of learning.

Agriculture, Gaeltacht/Rural Affairs and Social Welfare come to mind. Veradkar would love Gaeltacht and Rural Affairs so he would and it would give Enda lots of excuses to send Veradkar out to see the real Ireland that votes FG......and most of it is outside the M50 Leo

Put Bruton in charge of the Public Accounts committee while he is in purdah.

( Note , Sponge Bob is not a Blueshirt)

Very true.
Varadker may be the darling of many, but I don't think he appeals to the middle ground nor the rural voters.

Someone either here or on p.ie gave ideas for Bruton's new front bench.
Gone were Kenny and Ring, which if it was to come to pass would be the best shot in the arm ff could get in Mayo.
His option for a West of ireland minister is Naughton. :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Bruton has no political skills, he has economic skills. He is very like Garrett in that sense. Put him on an election tour to Cork and Cavan and Carlow and he will look like a spare prick ....and will lose the election.

I'd love to hear him field questions on Reps V and on the Water Framework Directive and septic tanks while he does his whistle stop in Caltra.

Can't see him chatting to the Caltra lads about their Championship chances against Corrofin :rolleyes:
The media have picked up on Bruton's economic ability and of course the ordinary joes believe what they get to see in the media.

Bruton's handling of this shows how fecking bad he is at strategy.

Upshot of the whole lot is Bruton has just wounded both himself and Kenny meaning there will be another leader.
Reilly anyone ?

Liam Byrne

Lurching wrote: »

If Enda made Taoiseach, id have to strongly reconsider returning to Ireland during his term.
I have yet to see him have a good idea. He is great at criticising others but can never come up with ways to improve the issues he criticises others over.

All for Bruton.

I'm going to sit on the fence in reply to this remark, because I can see both sides.

1) It's not hard to criticise a government that does most things wrong, and even when they do right they balls it up (e.g. extending the bank guarantee to Anglo and to the subordinated bondholders)

2) If Kenny is a proper "leader", his job is to listen to ideas within his party (and his electorate) and then sell those to the rest of the team, not impose his ideas on everyone like Haughey and Ahern.

Did he fail on the "selling" ? Apparently, to those people who prefer a sleazy used car salesman type of politician who tells you one thing because it's what you want to hear - "we've turned a corner - again!" - while working solidly to achieve the opposite.

danbohan

Deise Tom wrote: »

There is a few staunch Fine Geal Members on here, and I was just wondering, who they should be their leader, Enda or Richard. Or is there someone else within the party that could yet be a dark horse and take over as leader.

i think they realize that to be taisocheach in this country for next 5-10 years is going to be a very unpopular and impossible job and they are doing their best to make sure fianna fail stay in power , its very subtle and clever

wingnut

A candidate to unite the party... give Michael Noonan another shot.. <ducks>

dave180

enda has brought the party so far . . irish people as usual look at the way he comes across on tv and if he is 'good to look at on tv' . . . who cares. knowone can possibly say enda would not be a good leader of the country . . . it cant gte much worse than cowan anyway. to turn on your leader like them backstabbers have is a disgrace . . . . . he has got them where they are today . . which is on the brink of government . . whether enda is leader or not , fine gael will be the next government , who else is ther? and if anyone uses the argument that he is not liked by the people or he doesnt come across nice or hes not a people person . . . all you have to do is look at the two robbers and con artists that the people loves . . bertie ahern and charles haughey. . . so lets face it , irish people are not a good judge of character . . . enda is a great leader of the party and also WILL be of the country.