Are Irish parents overly protective?

Fuinseog

having observed teenagers from different countries it seems to me that they have more freedom and are less molly coddled than irish teens.parents here do everything for their off-spring right up to college and this is wrong.

what I have also experienced is the absolute refusal of parents here to accept that their child could do any wrong.

Offy

Fuinseog wrote: »

having observed teenagers from different countries it seems to me that they have more freedom and are less molly coddled than irish teens.parents here do everything for their off-spring right up to college and this is wrong.

what I have also experienced is the absolute refusal of parents here to accept that their child could do any wrong.

+1 at least mine are

looksee

I don't think it is a particularly Irish thing. Its a bit of a sweeping generalisation to say that (all) teens in other countries have more freedom than Irish teens.

My father left school and was working at 12, my mother at 14. I finished school at 16, did a one year course then was working from 17 in a quite responsible job. That was the normal thing then.

Now people are expected to go to third level and it is needed to have any hope of work. They can not be held responsible for the shortage of jobs, especially in the lower skilled area, nor for the fact that accommodation is too expensive for someone without a job, nor the fact that employers require third level for quite basic jobs. And as we allow the education system to slip, a Masters degree is now a requirement by employers.

Being an apprentice or in employment forced a level of maturity onto people at a younger age, now no-one demands that they get work, rather that they stay in education, so young men of 18 who should be at their peak of strength and energy are being forced to remain, in a sense, children. Is there any wonder they act irresponsibly at times, there is no good reason for them to be responsible for themselves.

I am not suggesting that people should leave school at 12 or 14, but if there is no clear life path for them at 16 or 17, no good prospect of work, then there must be an environment created that will offer occupation, if not conventional work, for people who are very unlikely to get employment.

I believe that there should be opportunities for people, especially young men, to challenge themselves both physically, taking risks climbing or racing cars or orienteering for example, without insurance taking all the risk out of life. Or intellectually by offering opportunities for music or theater or art, or rebuilding cars or construction, not in an over protected education environment, but in premises or parks and with guidance rather than supervision, but otherwise let them make the best of it, and require an outcome.

Previous generations fought wars, physically farmed land or laboured. What is there now to occupy people who cannot find an outlet in education? Or having got an education cannot put it to use?

prinz

Fuinseog wrote: »

having observed teenagers from different countries it seems to me that they have more freedom and are less molly coddled than irish teens.parents here do everything for their off-spring right up to college and this is wrong. what I have also experienced is the absolute refusal of parents here to accept that their child could do any wrong.

Both observations come down to personal responsibility which for some reason is commonly treated as a bad thing in this country.

Fuinseog

I am talking more about this generation and true we can not generalise.

german teens have to do military service and as a result have to learn responsibility.

I studied with a lot of foreign students and I had the experience that they could organise themselves a lot better as in their home countries studying is a case of sinking or swimming and nobody cares about you.

In ireland university students especially undergrads are treated like children. if they get a lousy grade the parents ring up and complain. they do not have to apply themselves as there are so many loopholes and backdoors to getting what they want, whether it be the Leaving Cert or college.

Their parents very often write out their CV and write their jop application letters. if they do not get the job they ring the employer and demand to know why. Such helicopter parents have an adverse affect on the development of young people.

Nevyn

And then you have some parents who have no intrest and neglect thier children so that the state has to send school attendance officers around to the house hold and they are drinking and doing drugs by the age of 15/16 and will be hard pressed to do the leaving cert nevermind go on to college.

and then are parents to strive for a good blanace in thier children's lifes and rear them to be responsible adults able to fend for themselves.

You are complaining about a certain section of soceity don't try and paint them as the norm.

Fuinseog

prinz wrote: »

Both observations come down to personal responsibility which for some reason is commonly treated as a bad thing in this country.

personal responsibility is linked with education. parents presume their kids will learn this in school and teachers presume they wil learn it at home, after all a maths teacher is there to teach maths, not responsibility.

How Strange

Sorry but I think that is a generalisation. Some parents may mollycoddle their children while others are content to let them hang around the streets from 8 years of age onwards.

I know lots of mature young people who leave home to go study, have to stand on their own two feet and do so admirably. Not all parents ring up and complain that their precious got a bad grade in school. Some parents will realise whose fault it is and have it out with their son or daughter instead.

You'll always get the parents that cosset their kids from life for as long as possible but then you'll get parents who let their kids be independent.

Fuinseog

Thaedydal wrote: »

And then you have some parents who have no intrest and neglect thier children so that the state has to send school attendance officers around to the house hold and they are drinking and doing drugs by the age of 15/16 and will be hard pressed to do the leaving cert nevermind go on to college.

and then are parents to strive for a good blanace in thier children's lifes and rear them to be responsible adults able to fend for themselves.

You are complaining about a certain section of soceity don't try and paint them as the norm.

its not a class thing.
I have experienced wealthy parents who have no interest and neglect their children. they get peeved if you contact them. the only difference is these kids will get where they want no matter what.

Nevyn

Disintrest and neglect and over coddling are not class issues but they are two different ways in which parents can fail kids, again I think you are tarring a lot people with a large brush.

prinz

Fuinseog wrote: »

personal responsibility is linked with education. parents presume their kids will learn this in school and teachers presume they wil learn it at home, after all a maths teacher is there to teach maths, not responsibility.

Which is in itself people shirking responsibility. As for teachers teaching responsibility.. they seem to be increasingly trying to undermine it.

Ickle Magoo

There is certainly more living at home for longer and plenty more "mammy syndrome" (doing everything for kids, who are often 25+, who seem quite happy with that set up) than I've witnessed anywhere else but I haven't noticed any more protectiveness for smaller/younger kids.

Fuinseog

prinz wrote: »

Which is in itself people shirking responsibility. As for teachers teaching responsibility.. they seem to be increasingly trying to undermine it.

true teachers lack responsibility and many themselves are poorly educated in their field and that was before they were made scapegoats for the recession.

Fuinseog

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

There is certainly more living at home for longer and plenty more "mammy syndrome" (doing everything for kids, who are often 25+, who seem quite happy with that set up) than I've witnessed anywhere else but I haven't noticed any more protectiveness for smaller/younger kids.

italians also live at home until they marry, but are still capable of doing things for themselves

prinz

Fuinseog wrote: »

true teachers lack responsibility and many themselves are poorly educated in their field and that was before they were made scapegoats for the recession.

I meant more along the lines of most teachers I have heard of especially this week seem to be constantly in favour of dumbing down the syllabi as much as possible.

As for educated teachers, there was a teacher on the 6.01 news last night talking about the maths paper yesterday who said 'seen' instead of saw a number of times, as in 'as soon as I seen it...'. :mad: Gets on my t*ts. You might be a great maths teacher but ffs.

Fuinseog

prinz wrote: »

I meant more along the lines of most teachers I have heard of especially this week seem to be constantly in favour of dumbing down the syllabi as much as possible.

As for educated teachers, there was a teacher on the 6.01 news last night talking about the maths paper yesterday who said 'seen' instead of saw a number of times, as in 'as soon as I seen it...'. :mad: Gets on my t*ts. You might be a great maths teacher but ffs.

maths can be challenging one year and easy the next year. consistency is required. in general the curriculum across the board can not really be dumbed down much more.
Only Fools and Horses is part of the LC English curriculum (film studies). its a plus if they can say their name as Gaeilge.

if they fail they have many other options so no cause for concern.


unfortunately in many schools if you can coach rubgy and GAA they do not really care about much else.its sufficent if you can write your name and be one step ahead of the kids.

Ickle Magoo

Fuinseog wrote: »

italians also live at home until they marry, but are still capable of doing things for themselves

Did you miss the part where I said "I've witnessed"....seems to be plenty of uber-defensiveness if it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I think you're forgetting that there is no education for adults becoming parents. They have to learn how to be parents through the act. And with each new child, they have to learn a different way of parenting. The manner in which i was raised was far different to that of my brother who was 5 years older than me. He was aggressive, demanding and loud, so they learned one way to manage him. My childhood/teens were quiet, unassuming, and generally I stayed out of my parents attention, so they learned a different way to raise me.

There were, of course, common themes such as morality or family values which were taught the same, but both of us accepted them in different ways.

In regards to the parents being overly protective, I think a lot has changed over the last 30 years in Ireland. I can remember having a curfew of 9pm every day until I was aged 16. I had to be home for dinner at 6. There were certain boundaries which I was not allowed to cross, and punishment was swift if I did. There were more expectations of how I should behave, and the same for my brother. He may have tested those boundaries more than me, but they applied to him nonetheless.

On the other hand, nowadays, I see more children running around at 10 or 11 pm than ever before. I see them hanging out of shop corners, walking down the train tracks during school time (in their uniforms), etc. [Not that I didn't do the same, but there appears to be more numbers now].

IMO, I feel that Irish parents are less protective/controlling than they used to be. Children/Teens seem to have more freedom than ever before. But then I'm on the outside looking in. I'm not a parent, and don't really know the problems associated beyond the complaints of my sister, or friends.

Nevyn

Children are less supervised and more spoilt in a lot of cases, be it parents working and there not being neighbours communities keeping any eye on them as it was when we were growing up.

seenitall

As an outsider (foreigner) in the Irish society, I noticed the general "mollycoddling of children" aspect a long time ago.

I remember about 5 years back, there was that school bus crash somewhere in the Midlands, do you remember? I think five girls died in the crash (as far as I remember, several died anyway). :(:(

Anyway, this happened a while before the Leaving Certs. What happened at the LC, is that people got to choose from 2 or 3 titles, what they were going to write their essay on. One of them was "A morning on the school bus" or something like that. The outrage and controversy that immediately sprang up from that!! It was quite shocking to me, tbh. The implication was that the little darlings could not possibly write anything remotely making sense on a topic like that, when here just a few months ago, there was that crash. Therefore the whole thing was blatantly unjust, unfair and eternal shame on whoever compiled the exam.

Coming from a different culture, I thought this reaction by parents etc. was truly pathetic. It was the strongest evidence you could ever produce for just how mollycoddled the youth of this country really is. Whatever happened to common sense? Even putting aside the fact that if the topic impacted them all that much in any way, there was a choice of at least another one (Hel-lo?? That's EXACTLY the reason there IS a choice in these exams), OR the fact that once you have chosen to write about your morning or your day on the school bus, you can pretty much write about ANYTHING related to that topic that you can imagine (lovely landscape, anyone?), what message is attitude like that sending to 17 or 18 year old people? "Kids, if you find anything remotely unpleasant in your exams, that could even remotely relate to, God forbid, something traumatic that you may have encountered or heard of in the real world, you have every right to kick up a major fuss and proclaim yourself to be unfairly treated by the authorities". Ffs.

There is one other country which I know well, and the living standard is lower there, as is the general civilisation level. Ironically enough, no mollycoddled children there, or not on the massive, general culture scale anyway. What would most probably happen there is the kids would probably very intentionally get the "A morning on the school bus" as their ONLY topic to tackle on the equivalent of the LC. Because the "LC" is there seen as a big step to adulthood, and when you are an adult you need to be able to deal with unpleasantness and trauma of life on a daily basis, and you have to be able to tackle it responsibly and in a calm and mature manner. LC is PERFECT for showcasing those abilities. That should be the idea, anyway...

Saint Ruth

seenitall wrote: »

As an outsider (foreigner) in the Irish society, I noticed the general "mollycoddling of children" aspect a long time ago.

...

Coming from a different culture, I thought this reaction by parents etc. was truly pathetic. It was the strongest evidence you could ever produce for just how mollycoddled the youth of this country really is...

I'm not an foreigner, but I thought exactly the same thing. Ridiculous.

As is the pile of counsellors that are always said to be on hand whenever anything goes wrong. Kids seemed to have cope with such things before the year 2000 when all this took off.
And to think, not so long ago, only 30 years, a teacher could legally slap pupils around.
One extreme to the other.

And another idiotic thing is this GAA's go games (everyone gets on teh pitch regardless of how bad they are and "winning is not important" rubbish) becase

- Less perceived stress on players
- Less perceived pressure from coaches and parents
- The emphasis is on player development rather than winning or losing
- Children have more perceived competence leading to increased self esteem and player retention

http://www.ballygarvangaa.ie/en/coaching/848-what-are-gaa-go-games.html

I mean for God sake, are modern kids so fragile?

Fuinseog

Thaedydal wrote: »

Children are less supervised and more spoilt in a lot of cases, be it parents working and there not being neighbours communities keeping any eye on them as it was when we were growing up.

a lot of people are saying this, but what can be done about it?

Fuinseog

Saint Ruth wrote: »

I'm not an foreigner, but I thought exactly the same thing. Ridiculous.

As is the pile of counsellors that are always said to be on hand whenever anything goes wrong. Kids seemed to have cope with such things before the year 2000 when all this took off.
And to think, not so long ago, only 30 years, a teacher could legally slap pupils around.
One extreme to the other.

in some there will be not outdoor sports or training if it is raining and that includes rubgy. if it rains on the day on the match, then they either cancel or wait for it to stop.

the issue of counsellors is interesting. I remember when a 15 year old died in a school and his friends and acquaintances in other schools were overcome by grief, some genuine some looking to doss class. the day was taken over by this.

with slapping we have gone from one extreme to another, a pat on the back in gratualtion would now be an assault. even raising your voice would be considered a verbal assault.

Nevyn

Fuinseog wrote: »

a lot of people are saying this, but what can be done about it?

We have gone from being a community which cares for others and looks out for them to being too concerned with our selves and not about those who need caring for, it's not being a good neighbour, everything has a monetary tag value these days including caring.

caseyann

Fuinseog wrote: »

I am talking more about this generation and true we can not generalise.

german teens have to do military service and as a result have to learn responsibility.

I studied with a lot of foreign students and I had the experience that they could organise themselves a lot better as in their home countries studying is a case of sinking or swimming and nobody cares about you.

In ireland university students especially undergrads are treated like children. if they get a lousy grade the parents ring up and complain. they do not have to apply themselves as there are so many loopholes and backdoors to getting what they want, whether it be the Leaving Cert or college.

Their parents very often write out their CV and write their jop application letters. if they do not get the job they ring the employer and demand to know why. Such helicopter parents have an adverse affect on the development of young people.

For me would be Spanish kids parents are over protective.
I know i am personally very protective of my kids and they are most certainly not allowed do things their friends are,and i see that as balance and been sure where they are and what they are doing.
Growing up for me peer pressure was unbelievable.Luckily i wasn't easily as led as my friends were.
Children can be trusted to make right decisions to a certain extent the rest is to the parents to be watchful of.
School and enjoying their younger years with out much pressure.A child should be a child and not worry about to much responsibility,only for their actions and studies as they grow up.Plenty of time for the rest.


Can not stand the parents though who will not punish or speak to their children when they have done something wrong or bully other kids.Because they are angels.

caseyann

I will raise you one for other nationalites that is mollycoddling imo.
The mother choosing the gf and trying to set the sons up and daughters with people rather than find their own.



(Their parents very often write out their CV and write their jop application letters. if they do not get the job they ring the employer and demand to know why. Such helicopter parents have an adverse affect on the development of young people.) Thats generalising.