Engine... replace of rebuild?

af_thefragile

The engine in my car lately has gone very sluggish. Its also using up all of its oil in just a month. I think its leaking a little oil as well.

And I was wondering would it be cheaper to replace the engine with a used one or would it be better to rebuild it instead? Cuz if I was to get a used one it could end up developing similar problems in a few years time while a properly rebuilt engine should run like new... right?

I quite like the car so I'ld wanna fix it rather than sell it.

PADRAIC.M

what car is it? year?etc..

af_thefragile

1999 1.4 Ford Puma.

Its brilliant fun to drive but at the same time is slowly disintegrating of old age and rough past.

Run_to_da_hills

I don't think anyone in their right minds would rebuild an engine unless its a classic, rare or high preformance car.

af_thefragile

I was planning on converting it into a rally car. Most probably a S1600 one. But I don't have the time and money for it right now. I really wouldn't wanna see it end up in a junk yard which is why I plan on fixing it rather than selling it off...

Masada

Get it to a mechanic and find out if its defo knackered, it might not be.

Other than that, it'll cost ya about 400ish quid for a second hand engine for it in a breakers, plus maybe 300 for one of the small indys to fit it for ya, if you cant do it yourself. Rebuilding it will most likely be more expensive than that and will take a lot longer.

Neilw

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I don't think anyone in their right minds would rebuild an engine unless its a classic, rare or high performance car.

After a rebuild it should be as good as new, no?
Can be difficult to find a replacement engine that you know the history of. The replacement could be as bad the the original.

I have a 1.8t vag engine getting new big end bearings, cylinders honed, new piston rings. Head is getting 20 new stem oil seals and guides and a thorough clean and valves reground.
The rest of the important bits will be new too, head bolts, head gasket new w/pump and t/belt kit plus a new oil pickup pipe.

af_thefragile

^That's the main concern I have with buying a used engine. There's no guarantee its gonna be any better. Only advantage is it wouldn't affect the insurance much.

Are you rebuilding the engine yourself or getting it done at a garage?

Masada wrote: »

Get it to a mechanic and find out if its defo knackered, it might not be.

Other than that, it'll cost ya about 400ish quid for a second hand engine for it in a breakers, plus maybe 300 for one of the small indys to fit it for ya, if you cant do it yourself. Rebuilding it will most likely be more expensive than that and will take a lot longer.

I was speaking to a mechanic today about the problem with the engine. He said something I can't truly remember but repairing it would be a pretty big job apparently and could cost upto a couple of grand. So I decided to run the engine as it is until it completely dies. Should hopefully last another year.

After that I can have two choices. Either sell it/break it or convert it into the rally car.

Now I'ld hate to see it broken into parts and ending up in a junk yard. Neither do I think I'ld get a lot for it with a broken engine. The body work has a lot of cosmetic damages as well.

I think it depends on what I end up doing over the next couple of years. I'ld love to be able to have the time and money to convert it into a rally car and give a shot and some rallying. Plan's to do most of it myself and what I can't and would need specialist tools for, at a good garage. Plan's to fit a new 1.6l engine in it, strip it out, strengthen the chassis, fit a roll cage, new transmission, suspension and breaks. Would all cost me atleast €10k but it should be better than anything you could buy for €10k and then there'll also be the whole thing about its your built...

Its either that or a motorbike!

ianobrien

af_thefragile wrote: »

^That's the main concern I have with buying a used engine. There's no guarantee its gonna be any better. Only advantage is it wouldn't affect the insurance much.

Are you rebuilding the engine yourself or getting it done at a garage?



I was speaking to a mechanic today about the problem with the engine. He said something I can't truly remember but repairing it would be a pretty big job apparently and could cost upto a couple of grand. So I decided to run the engine as it is until it completely dies. Should hopefully last another year.

After that I can have two choices. Either sell it/break it or convert it into the rally car.

Now I'ld hate to see it broken into parts and ending up in a junk yard. Neither do I think I'ld get a lot for it with a broken engine. The body work has a lot of cosmetic damages as well.

I think it depends on what I end up doing over the next couple of years. I'ld love to be able to have the time and money to convert it into a rally car and give a shot and some rallying. Plan's to do most of it myself and what I can't and would need specialist tools for, at a good garage. Plan's to fit a new 1.6l engine in it, strip it out, strengthen the chassis, fit a roll cage, new transmission, suspension and breaks. Would all cost me atleast €10k but it should be better than anything you could buy for €10k and then there'll also be the whole thing about its your built...

Its either that or a motorbike!

As somebody who is into rallying (mainly organising), I can tell you that at the moment, it is cheaper to buy a rally car than build one. 10K will get you a Civic with a type R/SIR engine, gearkit, Proflex etc. No Puma (S1600 excepted) will be able to match that.

Edit - Where is it rusty? Speaking from experience, you'll need as strong a shell as possible when rallying, and starting with a rusty one is a waste of time and money. I'm guessing it's the usual Fiesta/Ka/Puma front chassis rails & rear arches

Neilw

af_thefragile wrote: »

Are you rebuilding the engine yourself or getting it done at a garage?

Not doing it myself, I know someone who has rebuilt a few of these before so gave it to him.
I stripped the engine myself though.

af_thefragile

ianobrien wrote: »

As somebody who is into rallying (mainly organising), I can tell you that at the moment, it is cheaper to buy a rally car than build one. 10K will get you a Civic with a type R/SIR engine, gearkit, Proflex etc. No Puma (S1600 excepted) will be able to match that.

Edit - Where is it rusty? Speaking from experience, you'll need as strong a shell as possible when rallying, and starting with a rusty one is a waste of time and money. I'm guessing it's the usual Fiesta/Ka/Puma front chassis rails & rear arches

Yeah, But I like the Puma and as I'ld have built it, it'll be worth it sorta... Like an expensive hobby perhaps.

I was thinking of sticking a Ford 1.6l Sigma engine in it and turbo charge it or get a race tuned engine from a good tuning company like shawspeed in uk. And then probably a racing gearbox and better suspension + brakes. I know the S1600 was worth more than 100 grand. But taking that as a reference car, I'ld like to get mine close to it. It'll probably cost me more than 10k but I'ld like to reduce the labour costs as doing most of the work myself. Only get the big, important things done in the garage like fitting the roll cage, engine, setting up the suspension and such, stuff you'ld need specialist tools and skills for.

Its a 10yr old car so its going to have some underlying rust. Although I can't see any superficially right now, I'm sure when you strip it out, you'll find hidden areas of rust. Wouldn't a good roll cage take the strain off the body shell and make it strong?

ianobrien

af_thefragile wrote: »

Yeah, But I like the Puma and as I'ld have built it, it'll be worth it sorta... Like an expensive hobby perhaps.

I was thinking of sticking a Ford 1.6l Sigma engine in it and turbo charge it or get a race tuned engine from a good tuning company like shawspeed in uk. And then probably a racing gearbox and better suspension + brakes. I know the S1600 was worth more than 100 grand. But taking that as a reference car, I'ld like to get mine close to it. It'll probably cost me more than 10k but I'ld like to reduce the labour costs as doing most of the work myself. Only get the big, important things done in the garage like fitting the roll cage, engine, setting up the suspension and such, stuff you'ld need specialist tools and skills for.

Its a 10yr old car so its going to have some underlying rust. Although I can't see any superficially right now, I'm sure when you strip it out, you'll find hidden areas of rust. Wouldn't a good roll cage take the strain off the body shell and make it strong?

As for the turbo - Forget it unless you have a National A licence.

For getting power from the engine, I've heard BPJ are supposed to be excellent at getting power from them, and I've used them before for head work. Allow 2 to 3K for engine parts, 2K for rolling road setup.

Gearbox - Probably IB5 with Quaife internals. It'll handle the power allright Allow 1500 for box with limo & Clutch

Suspension - Bilstein coilover is about 1K, Proflex is about 3K (it'll probably be Ka stuff adapted)

Brakes - 500 euro if you go for cossy front calipers, 1500 if you go for HiSpec/Willwood front calipers, rear disc conversion plus hydraulic wand. More if you go for Alcon or AP Racing

Cage - Allow 500 (bolt in) plus fitting for a cage. You'll have to get somebody who knows what they are doing to put in the cage as it's your life....

PPE for you and Navigator (suits, helmet, underwear HANS) 2K a man, or 1200 each if you rent the HANS.

Seats/Harnesses/Window film/Kill Switch/Sump guard - Allow 2K for them, plus the odd and ends (suspension bushes, brake lines, fire extingusher etc)

As for the cage taking the loadings. Rallying puts strain on the body, and if there is any weakness, it will crack (eg Nova's are known for cracking the front chassis legs, 205 GTI at the back window apetures). Also, when you crash (and you will crash, believe me), if the cage is attached to a weak part of the car, it'll punch through meaning the cage will be useless (it won't be attached to the car). All rally cars start from a strong a shell as possible, and using a weak one is both a waste of money (more will be needed to fix it) and potentially unsafe.

If I were you, if you are near Donegal now, get down to scrutiny for the International. You'll see there how cars are done, plus you will be able to have a chat with scrutineers/competitors.

af_thefragile

Aye, thats a lot of good info! Cheers for that.

I was thinking about it today that when the engine goes, the max I would get from selling it is around 700eur. I'ld be better off keeping the car as a project car and working on it slowly one thing at a time. I could do some major build progress over the summers but no need to rush it, work as I find the time and money. Then in a couple of years time I should have a good rally car ready.

There has to be some way of reinforcing the weak parts of the chassis to make it stronger. I wouldn't wanna go rallying with a compromised chassis myself. I'ld want to make sure I've got the stiffest and strongest possible chassis for the car. The Puma is sorta known to have a really good chassis. Like even after 10 years of abuse my Puma sticks to the road like glue around corners. It certainly should be a good place to start from for building a rally car. And most importantly I like the way it looks. Even after 10 years it barely looks dated compared to most other cars of its age.

These are the specs for the Puma S1600:
Engine: Zetec SE all alloy, 4 cylinders, 16 valves, 1596cc.
Power: Over 200bhp at 9000rpm.
Transmission: Front wheel drive via Hewland 6-speed sequential gearbox. Limited slip differential.
Suspension Front: Dynamic suspension MacPherson struts with adjustable spring platforms.
Rear: Ford Racing trailing arm beam with adjustable dynamic suspension
Brakes:
Front: Alcon 355mm diameter ventilated discs with 4 piston callipers
Rear: Alcon 260mm diameter solid discs with 2 piston callipers.
Body Shell: Welded steel safety roll cage. Front and rear wheel arches and bumpers in composite.
Fuel Tank: 55 Litre capacity FIA ‘bag’ tank located beneath rear floor.
Wheels: Tarmac: 7” x 17” aluminium wheels.
Gravel: 6” x 15” aluminium wheels.

ianobrien

af_thefragile wrote: »

Then in a couple of years time I should have a good rally car ready.

.

No you won't, not for 10k in a puma. Just look at the amount of Pumas rallying.

For bang per buck, not much beats a Civic for that budget. Just look at the for sale section of Rally.ie to see what I'm saying.