Removing a (Timken) diff housing / 1/2 shafts on Mk5 RWD Transit.

Run_to_da_hills

I dropped the shaft to the diff and reboved alll bolts however the housing dose not seem to want to budge, There is a gap of around 1/8" around the housing. Any tips to what could be jamming it?

Cheers

Slidey

Have you both half shafts removed?

Run_to_da_hills

Slidey wrote: »

Have you both half shafts removed?

Surely I can't remove these without releasing the two circlips inside the diff housing, is there another way?

Anyone a diagram?

Slidey

If this is the axle that is in your van the 4 bolts (marked with the arrows) like I told you in the other thread are what you need to remove to pull the half shafts.

You will find the nuts inside the hubs

Run_to_da_hills

Slidey wrote: »

If this is the axle that is in your van the 4 bolts (marked with the arrows) like I told you in the other thread are what you need to remove to pull the half shafts.

You will find the nuts inside the hubs

Removed these, it only loosens the back plate for the braking mechanism. Shafts are still tight in place. :mad:

Slidey

Right, I'll go and find one and have a look

Slidey

The bearings are probably tight in the axle. That back plate probably holds all in place though

I'm sure these have to be pulled before you get the diff out

Run_to_da_hills

Slidey wrote: »

The bearings are probably tight in the axle. That back plate probably holds all in place though

I'm sure these have to be pulled before you get the diff out

Someone told me that there is two large circlips inside the diff holding in both 1/2 shafts.

Slidey

That is the newer type transit afaik.

They are different as they have the inspection plate on the rear of the axle that you can take down without removing the diff.

Rovi

I know nothing of the specific wondrous details of Transit axles, but if the ring of nuts/studs on the axle are on the side away from the propshaft, they're only holding on the diff cover and its removal will give access to the innards of the diff, and the halfshafts are likely retained with circlips.
If the ring of nuts/studs are on the same side as the propshaft, they'll be holding in the entire diff assembly, and the halfshafts will have to be removed first to allow it to be withdrawn from the axle casing.

Slidey

AFAIK his axle is of the type where the whole diff comes out of the axle in the casing.

The type with the plate has the diff built into the complete axle casing and has to be disassembled to be removed.

I was on www.fordtransit.org searching for the answer but they just talk of hitting the half shaft to get it out. This makes no sense to me.

OP can you post a pic of the half shaft with the hub and brakes removed?

Run_to_da_hills

I just picked up Haynes manual from a mate this evening, There are two types of axles, Salisbury and Timken, mine is the Timken.

Rovi

The Sailsbury (Dana) type is the one where the diff is assembled in the axle casing and the cover is removed from the rear, giving access to the inner end of the halfshafts to remove circlips if necessary.

'3rd member' type diffs (and I suspect your Timken is such) are the ones where the whole diff assembly is removed complete from the front of the axle and can be worked on outside the axle.
In the ones I'm most familiar with (classic Land-Rover stuff), the halfshafts are removed by undoing a ring of small bolts on the drive flange at the outer end of the axle; the halfshaft can then be withdrawn, leaving the hub and brake assembly behind on the axle. No need to dismantle bearings, brakes, etc.

Without knowing the details of the Timken type, I'll (almost ) guarantee that there's a way of undoing the halfshafts at the outer end of the axle.

Run_to_da_hills

Rovi wrote: »

The Sailsbury (Dana) type is the one where the diff is assembled in the axle casing and the cover is removed from the rear, giving access to the inner end of the halfshafts to remove circlips if necessary.

'3rd member' type diffs (and I suspect your Timken is such) are the ones where the whole diff assembly is removed complete from the front of the axle and can be worked on outside the axle.
In the ones I'm most familiar with (classic Land-Rover stuff), the halfshafts are removed by undoing a ring of small bolts on the drive flange at the outer end of the axle; the halfshaft can then be withdrawn, leaving the hub and brake assembly behind on the axle. No need to dismantle bearings, brakes, etc.

Without knowing the details of the Timken type, I'll (almost ) guarantee that there's a way of undoing the halfshafts at the outer end of the axle.

It looks as if now I will have to remove both half shafts to replace the large gasket on the diff as I damaged it thinking I had to remove this first. :mad:

Slidey

Get Bardahl sump sealer. It is thick black stuff and should seal it up without having to take it off

Rovi

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It looks as if now I will have to remove both half shafts to replace the large gasket on the diff as I damaged it thinking I had to remove this first. :mad:

It may not be applicable with your Timken diff, but many's the Land-Rover axle has been assembled with a good squirt of silicone gasket stuff holding the remains of the paper gasket together.

Run_to_da_hills

Rovi wrote: »

It may not be applicable with your Timken diff, but many's the Land-Rover axle has been assembled with a good squirt of silicone gasket stuff holding the remains of the paper gasket together.

Might be an option, or just pack it with a grease.

Rovi

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Might be an option, or just pack it with a grease.

Again, I've never worked on a Timken diff, so I'd suggest holding on until someone can say something definitive, but if this were a L-R axle, I'd clean the mating faces as much as possible with thinners or the like, smear something like Loctite Ultra Copper Gasket Seal all the way around and especially where the paper gasket is damaged, and button it up.
On a L-R axle, I'd have 100% confidence in the job.

Using grease to 'seal' it would most likely lead to a damp diff that'll need occasional checking and topping up.

Run_to_da_hills

Edited title.

Slidey

What does the Hayes manual say needs to be done?

Run_to_da_hills

Slidey wrote: »

What does the Hayes manual say needs to be done?

Its rather confusing as it chops and changes through both types of axles, It basically says that the two half shafts must pe bulled out from the hubs. before the crown pinion can be removed.

Slidey

From all the semi-floating half shafts that I've worked on they have been held in by those bolts I pointed to with the arrows, or that kind of style anyway

They may also hold the backplate in place but probably secure the bearing in the axle.

Put the wheel back on to the hub so you have a bit of leverage and give it a few tugs out the way

Rovi

Any semi-floating halfshafts I've done have generally needed a bit of persuasion to come out of the axle casing, as you're pulling a bearing and a seal (usually) too, and those depend on being 'snug' to function properly.
I usually make up a plate that bolts to the wheel studs with a threaded insert for a big slide hammer; that's never failed to shift them yet.

As you say, refitting the wheel will give a lot of extra leverage and something to grip on to.


Is the Transit/Timken axle a semi-floating design?

If they are, there are only 2 ways of retaining the halfshaft (that I've come across):
Circlips inside the differential, which appear to not be the case here...
...or a retainer plate on the end of the axle tube, which appears to be the most likely here.
Unfortunately, removing the retainer plate type generally involves dismantling the brakes to some extent; at the very least, the brake pipe and handbrake cable will have to be disconnected.


Fully-floating halfshafts are much easier: you undo the bolts on the drive flange and pull the halfshaft, leaving all the brakes and bearings behind on the axle.

Run_to_da_hills

Have the 1/2 shaft out, still the fcuking problem, cannot remove / replace broken stud in wheel hub. :mad:

Rovi

Replacing wheel studs generally involves dismantling brakes to at least some extent, unless the manufacturer has provided a convenient access hole somewhere.

Buford T Justice

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Have the 1/2 shaft out, still the fcuking problem, cannot remove / replace broken stud in wheel hub. :mad:

Isn't the hub like this one below, granted that your one will have the half shaft in it, can you not try and use a punch with some brute force to get it out? Thats how I've done them before. Failing that, a press and a socket or two....

Run_to_da_hills

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Isn't the hub like this one below, granted that your one will have the half shaft in it, can you not try and use a punch with some brute force to get it out? Thats how I've done them before. Failing that, a press and a socket or two....

Exact same, job done now and van back on road, Cheers Everyone.

Slidey

What did you have to do in the end to get the studs out?

Run_to_da_hills

Slidey wrote: »

What did you have to do in the end to get the studs out?

Remove driveshaft then hub using 56mm socket, tap stud out and replace, easy enough and I didn't need to go near the diff.

Slidey

Everyday is a school day!