Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Lord Trimble is international observer of Flotilla Inquiry

  • 14-06-2010 12:49PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭


    Lord Trimble along with retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin are to be the two international observers invited by Israel to investigate the murder of 9 Turkish humanitarians.

    Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

    Zero, unless he's changed spots and gone away from hypocrisy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    He won't have any say on the out come of the "inquiry", and as other have pointed out that his own history in regards to this sort of thing is another blow to the crediblity of Israels inquiry, which tbh has none as it is. No one will accept Israel investigating itself, and Israel will engage in there now customary white wash of events.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Lord Trimble along with a Canadian and retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin are to be the two international observers invited by Israel to investigate the murder of 9 Turkish humanitarians.

    Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

    None whatsoever. Thats why the Israelis picked him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Lord Trimble along with a Canadian and retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin are to be the two international observers invited by Israel to investigate the murder of 9 Turkish humanitarians.

    Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

    Ah its the old "because he's a unionist" thing, its typical that the lefties, do-gooders and sinn fein types would be up in arms about him being picked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Ah FFS, he probably believes the ulster protestants are one of the "Lost Tribes of Israel".
    :rolleyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Ah its the old "because he's a unionist" thing, its typical that the lefties, do-gooders and sinn fein types would be up in arms about him being picked.

    No, because he has previous when it comes to the whole concept of investigations into state murder and also has aligned himself as a friend of Israel through the past. He is not the man for an impartial investigation, which is exactly why he was picked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,592 ✭✭✭Tristram


    jihadist humanitarians... interesting


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 128 ✭✭UltimateMale


    None whatsoever. Thats why the Israelis picked him.
    Well to be honest, the thought had occured to me. But Israel's respect for the Nobel Peace prize winner Lord Trimble will be quite different to the other Nobel Peace prize winner from the north Máiread Corrigan who was abducted on the MV Racheal Corrie and deported by the zionists.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Ah its the old "because he's a unionist" thing, its typical that the lefties, do-gooders and sinn fein types would be up in arms about him being picked.

    He is politically active in a new pro Israel organisation. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps not a wise choice when looking for impartial observers.
    Initiated and led by Spain's former prime minister Jose Maria Aznar, a group of international leaders is to meet in Paris on Monday night to launch the "Friends of Israel Initiative," a new project in defense of Israel's right to exist.

    The leaders - who include the Nobel Peace Prize laureate David Trimble...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    dvpower wrote: »
    He is politically active in a new pro Israel organisation. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps not a wise choice when looking for impartial observers.

    Being in support of israels right to exist does not make one in favour of Israeli actions or pro Israeli. No one was discussing impartiality when quoting eye witness testimony from supporters of Gazans on the flotilla, nor would I suggest that supporting Palestinians right to exist makes one pro Palestinian or pro Hamas in the conflict.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Being in support of israels right to exist does not make one in favour of Israeli actions or pro Israeli. No one was discussing impartiality when quoting eye witness testimony from supporters of Gazans on the flotilla, nor would I suggest that supporting Palestinians right to exist makes one pro Palestinian or pro Hamas in the conflict.

    I think the organisation is really a lobby group for Israel.
    Their proclivities are not limited to mere ascertions of Israel's "right to exist".

    Did you mean in your post, to say: "supporting Palestinians right to a State", or did you actually mean it when you said "supporting Palestinians right to exist"?

    spot the difference.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    I think the organisation is really a lobby group for Israel.
    Their proclivities are not limited to mere ascertions of Israel's "right to exist".

    Did you mean in your post, to say: "supporting Palestinians right to a State", or did you actually mean it when you said "supporting Palestinians right to exist"?

    spot the difference.

    I support both the Palestinians right to exist and their right to a state, and likewise for Israel.

    I dont know enough about the Pro Israeli organisation so I'm not going to defend Trimble wholeheartedly on this but I agree with the following piece from the link dvpower cited
    Israel "is a fully sovereign and responsible nation," they added in their statement. "Although we can all disagree with some of its decisions, this fact should not be used as an excuse to question Israel's right to exist, its legitimacy or its national rights.

    As a responsible nation I would like to see them held to acount for excessive violence used in this conflict and for other atrocities (in international courts rather than by indiscriminate boycotts), I have a similar wish for Palestinian proponents of Hamas's style of 'defense'


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Being in support of israels right to exist does not make one in favour of Israeli actions or pro Israeli. No one was discussing impartiality when quoting eye witness testimony from supporters of Gazans on the flotilla, nor would I suggest that supporting Palestinians right to exist makes one pro Palestinian or pro Hamas in the conflict.

    Being actively politically involved in a Pro Israel organisation is likely to bring his impartiality into question. As an international observer, it matters not only if he is impartial, but also if he can be seen as being impartial.

    I think David Trimble is capable of being an impartial witness, but his political connections will put a question mark over his appointment in the minds of many reasonable people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    dvpower wrote: »
    Being actively politically involved in a Pro Israel organisation is likely to bring his impartiality into question. As an international observer, it matters not only if he is impartial, but also if he can be seen as being impartial.

    I think David Trimble is capable of being an impartial witness, but his political connections will put a question mark over his appointment in the minds of many reasonable people.

    Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    deravarra wrote: »
    Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.

    He didn't have the required whitewash skills that David Trimble obviously has.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    gandalf wrote: »
    He didn't have the required whitewash skills that David Trimble obviously has.

    Quite :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    deravarra wrote: »
    Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.

    David Trimble is just an observer.

    I would have thought that the purpose of appointing international observers would be to increase the credibility of the investigation, and appointing someone like Trimble, with an obvious appearance of partiality, does the opposite.

    If I was David Trimble, I'd be insulted by the offer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    dvpower wrote: »
    David Trimble is just an observer.

    I would have thought that the purpose of appointing international observers would be to increase the credibility of the investigation, and appointing someone like Trimble, with an obvious appearance of partiality, does the opposite.

    If I was David Trimble, I'd be insulted by the offer.

    Do you think that Israel cares about what anyone else in the world thinks about them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    deravarra wrote: »
    Do you think that Israel cares about what anyone else in the world thinks about them?

    Well. They care what the Americans think, which is why we have international observers in the first place.

    Mind you, if I was Hillary Clinton, I'd be insulted by this appointment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    The appointment of these guys is just for their US audience. They care about no one elses opinion. Once the US is on-side they can get everything blocked in the UN and its business as usual for them.

    All that they will be sold is that he is a Nobel Peace Prize winner and they will not be informed of his bias.

    Ken Watkins the Canadian Observer has been implicated to this controversy in Canada so again not an ideal candidate either.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    dvpower wrote: »
    Well. They care what the Americans think, which is why we have international observers in the first place.

    Mind you, if I was Hillary Clinton, I'd be insulted by this appointment.

    Really? Maybe they used to - but their arrogance has got them feeling quite smug. Remember Biden's visit and the announcement of 1600 NEW settlement homes - after agreeing to US demands of a halt to settlement building?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

    As mentioned, none. Observers by definition have no input, they merely observe and report.

    Anyone know anything about the Canuckian prosecutor?
    Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.

    That was just a comedy of errors. Israel objected to the report in the first place as it was on biased grounds, so didn't co-operate with Goldstone. As a result, the report, despite Goldstone's best efforts, didn't take into account anything from the Israeli side.

    NTM


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭dvpower


    deravarra wrote: »
    Really? Maybe they used to - but their arrogance has got them feeling quite smug. Remember Biden's visit and the announcement of 1600 NEW settlement homes - after agreeing to US demands of a halt to settlement building?

    I think if there wasn't American pressure, we wouldn't have any international observers.
    But I do think that Israel's actions are often myopic and their behaviour towards their friends will come back to bite them some day.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,575 ✭✭✭✭FlutterinBantam


    As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

    I would expect that he would use the same political courage he used in the North and not be browbeaten by leftist activists who seem to want anarchy .


    certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    dvpower wrote: »
    I think if there wasn't American pressure, we wouldn't have any international observers.
    But I do think that Israel's actions are often myopic and their behaviour towards their friends will come back to bite them some day.

    And sooner rather than later. Turkey is rethinking its relationship with Israel ...

    Bet we'll have someone accusing Turkey of being antisemitic


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭deravarra


    As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla

    Maybe you would have been a better choice, seeing as this is the type of response they would be looking for.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

    I would expect that he would use the same political courage he used in the North and not be browbeaten by leftist activists who seem to want anarchy .


    certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.

    He is just an observer, so he would be unable to do any of the above.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

    (......)


    certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.

    Offering congratulations for a specfic outcome? Dear o dear.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    I would have thought his appointment was perfect. If the report is damning of the action, then we all get to say "I told you so". If it finds the Israelis did nothing wrong, we can all blame David Trimble and still say "I told you so".

    It gives the haters plenty of chance to hate whatever the outcome.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,544 ✭✭✭droidus


    Its irrelevant really.

    The crux of the issue is whether or not Israel had a right to attack the flotilla, which is basically dependent on whether or not the blockade is considered legal.

    Guess what? Israel thinks the blockade is legal, so and Israeli inquiry will, by definition be a load of b*llocks.


Advertisement