Lord Trimble is international observer of Flotilla Inquiry

UltimateMale

Lord Trimble along with retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin are to be the two international observers invited by Israel to investigate the murder of 9 Turkish humanitarians.

Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

deravarra

UltimateMale wrote: »

Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

Zero, unless he's changed spots and gone away from hypocrisy

wes

He won't have any say on the out come of the "inquiry", and as other have pointed out that his own history in regards to this sort of thing is another blow to the crediblity of Israels inquiry, which tbh has none as it is. No one will accept Israel investigating itself, and Israel will engage in there now customary white wash of events.

OhNoYouDidn't

UltimateMale wrote: »

Lord Trimble along with a Canadian and retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin are to be the two international observers invited by Israel to investigate the murder of 9 Turkish humanitarians.

Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

None whatsoever. Thats why the Israelis picked him.

BlaasForRafa

UltimateMale wrote: »

Lord Trimble along with a Canadian and retired Canadian military prosecutor Ken Watkin are to be the two international observers invited by Israel to investigate the murder of 9 Turkish humanitarians.

Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

Ah its the old "because he's a unionist" thing, its typical that the lefties, do-gooders and sinn fein types would be up in arms about him being picked.

BluePlanet

Ah FFS, he probably believes the ulster protestants are one of the "Lost Tribes of Israel".
:rolleyes:

OhNoYouDidn't

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Ah its the old "because he's a unionist" thing, its typical that the lefties, do-gooders and sinn fein types would be up in arms about him being picked.

No, because he has previous when it comes to the whole concept of investigations into state murder and also has aligned himself as a friend of Israel through the past. He is not the man for an impartial investigation, which is exactly why he was picked.

Tristram

jihadist humanitarians... interesting

UltimateMale

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

None whatsoever. Thats why the Israelis picked him.

Well to be honest, the thought had occured to me. But Israel's respect for the Nobel Peace prize winner Lord Trimble will be quite different to the other Nobel Peace prize winner from the north Máiread Corrigan who was abducted on the MV Racheal Corrie and deported by the zionists.

dvpower

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Ah its the old "because he's a unionist" thing, its typical that the lefties, do-gooders and sinn fein types would be up in arms about him being picked.

He is politically active in a new pro Israel organisation. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps not a wise choice when looking for impartial observers.

Initiated and led by Spain's former prime minister Jose Maria Aznar, a group of international leaders is to meet in Paris on Monday night to launch the "Friends of Israel Initiative," a new project in defense of Israel's right to exist.

The leaders - who include the Nobel Peace Prize laureate David Trimble...

Laminations

dvpower wrote: »

He is politically active in a new pro Israel organisation. Nothing wrong with that, but perhaps not a wise choice when looking for impartial observers.

Being in support of israels right to exist does not make one in favour of Israeli actions or pro Israeli. No one was discussing impartiality when quoting eye witness testimony from supporters of Gazans on the flotilla, nor would I suggest that supporting Palestinians right to exist makes one pro Palestinian or pro Hamas in the conflict.

BluePlanet

Laminations wrote: »

Being in support of israels right to exist does not make one in favour of Israeli actions or pro Israeli. No one was discussing impartiality when quoting eye witness testimony from supporters of Gazans on the flotilla, nor would I suggest that supporting Palestinians right to exist makes one pro Palestinian or pro Hamas in the conflict.

I think the organisation is really a lobby group for Israel.
Their proclivities are not limited to mere ascertions of Israel's "right to exist".

Did you mean in your post, to say: "supporting Palestinians right to a State", or did you actually mean it when you said "supporting Palestinians right to exist"?

spot the difference.

Laminations

BluePlanet wrote: »

I think the organisation is really a lobby group for Israel.
Their proclivities are not limited to mere ascertions of Israel's "right to exist".

Did you mean in your post, to say: "supporting Palestinians right to a State", or did you actually mean it when you said "supporting Palestinians right to exist"?

spot the difference.

I support both the Palestinians right to exist and their right to a state, and likewise for Israel.

I dont know enough about the Pro Israeli organisation so I'm not going to defend Trimble wholeheartedly on this but I agree with the following piece from the link dvpower cited

Israel "is a fully sovereign and responsible nation," they added in their statement. "Although we can all disagree with some of its decisions, this fact should not be used as an excuse to question Israel's right to exist, its legitimacy or its national rights.

As a responsible nation I would like to see them held to acount for excessive violence used in this conflict and for other atrocities (in international courts rather than by indiscriminate boycotts), I have a similar wish for Palestinian proponents of Hamas's style of 'defense'

dvpower

Laminations wrote: »

Being in support of israels right to exist does not make one in favour of Israeli actions or pro Israeli. No one was discussing impartiality when quoting eye witness testimony from supporters of Gazans on the flotilla, nor would I suggest that supporting Palestinians right to exist makes one pro Palestinian or pro Hamas in the conflict.

Being actively politically involved in a Pro Israel organisation is likely to bring his impartiality into question. As an international observer, it matters not only if he is impartial, but also if he can be seen as being impartial.

I think David Trimble is capable of being an impartial witness, but his political connections will put a question mark over his appointment in the minds of many reasonable people.

deravarra

dvpower wrote: »

Being actively politically involved in a Pro Israel organisation is likely to bring his impartiality into question. As an international observer, it matters not only if he is impartial, but also if he can be seen as being impartial.

I think David Trimble is capable of being an impartial witness, but his political connections will put a question mark over his appointment in the minds of many reasonable people.

Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.

gandalf

deravarra wrote: »

Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.

He didn't have the required whitewash skills that David Trimble obviously has.

deravarra

gandalf wrote: »

He didn't have the required whitewash skills that David Trimble obviously has.

Quite

dvpower

deravarra wrote: »

Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.

David Trimble is just an observer.

I would have thought that the purpose of appointing international observers would be to increase the credibility of the investigation, and appointing someone like Trimble, with an obvious appearance of partiality, does the opposite.

If I was David Trimble, I'd be insulted by the offer.

deravarra

dvpower wrote: »

David Trimble is just an observer.

I would have thought that the purpose of appointing international observers would be to increase the credibility of the investigation, and appointing someone like Trimble, with an obvious appearance of partiality, does the opposite.

If I was David Trimble, I'd be insulted by the offer.

Do you think that Israel cares about what anyone else in the world thinks about them?

dvpower

deravarra wrote: »

Do you think that Israel cares about what anyone else in the world thinks about them?

Well. They care what the Americans think, which is why we have international observers in the first place.

Mind you, if I was Hillary Clinton, I'd be insulted by this appointment.

gandalf

The appointment of these guys is just for their US audience. They care about no one elses opinion. Once the US is on-side they can get everything blocked in the UN and its business as usual for them.

All that they will be sold is that he is a Nobel Peace Prize winner and they will not be informed of his bias.

Ken Watkins the Canadian Observer has been implicated to this controversy in Canada so again not an ideal candidate either.

deravarra

dvpower wrote: »

Well. They care what the Americans think, which is why we have international observers in the first place.

Mind you, if I was Hillary Clinton, I'd be insulted by this appointment.

Really? Maybe they used to - but their arrogance has got them feeling quite smug. Remember Biden's visit and the announcement of 1600 NEW settlement homes - after agreeing to US demands of a halt to settlement building?

Manic Moran

Given Lord Trimble's hostility to inquires into British forces murders of nationalists in the north, what are the chances of him having an impartial input into the Israeli inquiry ?

As mentioned, none. Observers by definition have no input, they merely observe and report.

Anyone know anything about the Canuckian prosecutor?

Richard Goldstone was able to be impartial, but Israel rejected his report.

That was just a comedy of errors. Israel objected to the report in the first place as it was on biased grounds, so didn't co-operate with Goldstone. As a result, the report, despite Goldstone's best efforts, didn't take into account anything from the Israeli side.

NTM

dvpower

deravarra wrote: »

Really? Maybe they used to - but their arrogance has got them feeling quite smug. Remember Biden's visit and the announcement of 1600 NEW settlement homes - after agreeing to US demands of a halt to settlement building?

I think if there wasn't American pressure, we wouldn't have any international observers.
But I do think that Israel's actions are often myopic and their behaviour towards their friends will come back to bite them some day.

FlutterinBantam

As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

I would expect that he would use the same political courage he used in the North and not be browbeaten by leftist activists who seem to want anarchy .


certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.

deravarra

dvpower wrote: »

I think if there wasn't American pressure, we wouldn't have any international observers.
But I do think that Israel's actions are often myopic and their behaviour towards their friends will come back to bite them some day.

And sooner rather than later. Turkey is rethinking its relationship with Israel ...

Bet we'll have someone accusing Turkey of being antisemitic

deravarra

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla

Maybe you would have been a better choice, seeing as this is the type of response they would be looking for.

wes

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

I would expect that he would use the same political courage he used in the North and not be browbeaten by leftist activists who seem to want anarchy .


certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.

He is just an observer, so he would be unable to do any of the above.

Nodin

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

(......)


certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.

Offering congratulations for a specfic outcome? Dear o dear.

Fratton Fred

I would have thought his appointment was perfect. If the report is damning of the action, then we all get to say "I told you so". If it finds the Israelis did nothing wrong, we can all blame David Trimble and still say "I told you so".

It gives the haters plenty of chance to hate whatever the outcome.

droidus

Its irrelevant really.

The crux of the issue is whether or not Israel had a right to attack the flotilla, which is basically dependent on whether or not the blockade is considered legal.

Guess what? Israel thinks the blockade is legal, so and Israeli inquiry will, by definition be a load of b*llocks.

deravarra

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would have thought his appointment was perfect. If the report is damning of the action, then we all get to say "I told you so". If it finds the Israelis did nothing wrong, we can all blame David Trimble and still say "I told you so".

It gives the haters plenty of chance to hate whatever the outcome.

Given Israel's refusal to allow ANY criticism of it's actions in the past, would you blame people for thinking that there will only be ONE outcome to this charade?

Manic Moran

deravarra wrote: »

Maybe you would have been a better choice, seeing as this is the type of response they would be looking for.

Can we take this as an admission that being a peace prize winner has, in fact, very little bearing on anything?

I'm just wondering, because some people tried to make much of the fact that there was another one on the Gaza flotilla.

NTM

dvpower

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

I would expect that he would use the same political courage he used in the North and not be browbeaten by leftist activists who seem to want anarchy .


certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.

Were you on the evaluation committee? :rolleyes:

deravarra

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can we take this as an admission that being a peace prize winner has, in fact, very little bearing on anything?

I'm just wondering, because some people tried to make much of the fact that there was another one on the Gaza flotilla.

NTM

Maybe we should try and find a way of communicating beyond the grave with Yasser Arafat - also a nobel peace prize winner, and very much knowledgeable about the local situation.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I would have thought his appointment was perfect. If the report is damning of the action, then we all get to say "I told you so". If it finds the Israelis did nothing wrong, we can all blame David Trimble and still say "I told you so".

It gives the haters plenty of chance to hate whatever the outcome.

Some of us are interested in the truth - or at least an approximation of the same - coming out. Adding in any known supporter of the other side means that we can't expect much, if anything.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Some of us are interested in the truth - or at least an approximation of the same - coming out. Adding in any known supporter of the other side means that we can't expect much, if anything.

So someone from our side would be better and more impartial?

Personally I am amazed that they even got the enquiry agreed, so any observer has to be a good thing. It will be interesting to see how Mr Trimble gets on on the world stage, outside of his cosy neighbourhood. I think we should wait and see what happens.

Run_to_da_hills

David Trimbol.

You couldn't get a better man, LOL

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

So someone from our side would be better and more impartial?

No. Hence the need for neutral parties.

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

No. Hence the need for neutral parties.

Are there any though? it is very difficult to find anyone without an opinion on this.

dvpower

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are there any though? it is very difficult to find anyone without an opinion on this.

But not too difficult to find someone who is not politically active in the area.

Nodin

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Are there any though? it is very difficult to find anyone without an opinion on this.

Well, we could start looking outside advocacy organisations such as the Irish Palestinian Solidarity organisation, or - as in this case - the "Friends of Israel"....its just taking the piss
http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/jerusalem-post/mi_8048/is_20100531/aznar-trimble-launch-pro-israel/ai_n53871053/

Fratton Fred

Nodin wrote: »

Well, we could start looking outside advocacy organisations such as the Irish Palestinian Solidarity organisation, or - as in this case - the "Friends of Israel"....its just taking the piss
http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/jerusalem-post/mi_8048/is_20100531/aznar-trimble-launch-pro-israel/ai_n53871053/

maybe it is, but I think it's all we're gonna get.

Coillte_Bhoy

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Ah its the old "because he's a unionist" thing, its typical that the lefties, do-gooders and sinn fein types would be up in arms about him being picked.

And typical that you would come out with that crap. Maybe it's because he was involved in the formation of a 'Friends of Israel' group thta might lead to question marks over his impartiality?

billy the squid

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

As a Nobel Laureate I expect Lord Trimble to do an excellent job and exonerate Israel from any wrongdoing given that obviously a band of terrorists seem to have infiltrated the otherwise peaceful flotilla.

I would expect that he would use the same political courage he used in the North and not be browbeaten by leftist activists who seem to want anarchy .


certainly I would trust him to find out the facts, whether in favour or against the killing of the 'sailors'.

This is the same Mr. Trimble who opposed the establishment of the bloody Sunday inquiry, the results of which we are going to hear today.

hardly a truth seeker.

Run_to_da_hills

billy the squid wrote: »

This is the same Mr. Trimble who opposed the establishment of the bloody Sunday inquiry, the results of which we are going to hear today.

hardly a truth seeker.

This is exactly why the Israelis want him.