Now that Natal/Kinect has been unveiled...

WolfForager

Who here actually has high hopes for it?

rizzla

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Me, looking forward to seeing what they do with it.

Like the Sounds fantastic option... because it does sound fantastic. Until I play it though I won't know.

monkeyfudge

I don't think much of it at all.

At least with the Wii you get some sort of tactile feedback from it because you're still actually holding something.

If they make games that are more about using gestures it could be interesting... such as something along the lines of Heavy Rain... but it looks like the bulk of what we're getting is action based titles and sports games.

Shammy

Sounds fantastic!

A step back imo

Owen

If they allow Skype to develop for and use the webcam I'll have one. Herself skypes her parents every night for half an hour, and it'd be very handy to have it built into the TV/Entertainment system.

super_furry

I just don't care about it. I have a Wii, it does its job admirably as a novelty dust gathering device, I don't need another.

I have yet to see a single game that convinced me that motion controls are anything other than a nice little gimmick when you have a few drunk friends over.

rizzla

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

If they allow Skype to develop for and use the webcam I'll have one. Herself skypes her parents every night for half an hour, and it'd be very handy to have it built into the TV/Entertainment system.

They wouldn't allow that, kinda pointless too. Because if 2 people have 360's and Kinect then they can do voice chat, no need for a skype app. Not sure how big a party can get but I think they demod 3 way chat somewhere.

EDIT: Sure if 2 people have 360's and a Vision camera they can do that now anyway.

Bulktohulk

I'll buy it, mostly for the minority report style dashboard control and the video chat. Also on the off chance that some developer actually makes a cool game for it, but I won't be buying any of that shovelware crap.

alastair_doom

The leaked list of games seems a tad disappointing, but I'll wait till after the MS conference to vote, or until I see some actual ingame footage other than dodgeball.

calex71

No interest in it at all, I like to sit while I play games and drumming in Rock Band is as energetic as I get.

I'm sure the games will be of good quality and possibly fun but just not for me. At least it can't be any worse than the live vision camera :P

Owen

rizzla wrote: »

They wouldn't allow that, kinda pointless too.

It's only pointless from your perspective. For us it would be fantastic.

gizmo

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Some mediocre launch titles aren't going to make me any less excited about the prospects for the device.

To put it quite simply, none of these devices will ever replace my controller, therefore when it comes to picking up a new peripheral I'll want something which actually allows me to do something different. This is why I'm more excited about Kinect than I am Move for instance.

As for the device itself, it's more the passive capabilities that I'm looking forward to such as navigating menus, interacting with puzzles and some mini-games. If these are done Minority Report style and I can also navigate the Dashboard easily with it then I'll consider the device a success. On top of this, you'll have the party games which will be more of a bonus for me.

My only concern at this point is price. If it's as expensive as the rumoured £150 then I'll be holding off on picking one up for quite awhile. Since most of the processing is done on the console itself I would have expected it to be around the £75 mark as mooted awhile back. We'll find out tonight I guess!

Grumpypants

I'm still in the same boat when i played the dodgeball game it worked really well but it is a party game and i get bored of them after 2 goes.

Ive said from the start its up to the games they develop. I havent seen anything today that makes me excited. The games ive invented in my head are awesome but if they will ever seethe light of day i doubt it. Still ill hold off untill the expo is over. But at the moment the Move is looking better simply because you can point and shoot.

rizzla

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Grumpypants wrote: »

But at the moment the Move is looking better simply because you can point and shoot.

I'm sure you could do that with Kinect, just make a gun with your fingers and thumb. Look silly, but not as bad a pointing a glowing dildo at the screen.

Owen

rizzla wrote: »

pointing a glowing dildo at the screen.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the PS3 controller and thought that!

pdbhp

Sounds fantastic!

This kinect or natal or whatever its called is gonna tank with real gamers unless they figure out how to make the controls respond properly and without any lag which will be a major stumbling block for online games like Call of Duty series.
Me personally I would like to see it work out but I'm not holding my breath

Grumpypants

I just wonder what kind of elaborate dildo's ye guys are buying !!



All i want is gear of war 3 where it comes with a replica gun and you have to move into cover your self dives across the room blasting at the screen! Is that too much to ask ?


Anyway few pics and a highlight vid from the show here nothing too exciting the games are all party games bar the star wars one but they used pre recorded video (watch the star wars game the charactor pulls out his light saber before the guys moves.)

johnny_ultimate

Pretty underwhelmed tbh. The lightsaber game looks sorta cool if they could implement it properly, but otherwise it's just more of the crappy Wii-like mini games that I don't play on my Wii anyway.

I'd agree with Gizmo - I don't intend on giving up traditional controllers anytime soon. They work, simple as that really. This technology is interesting, but until it's more than dumbed down casual games, it's not for me. When they start integrating emotion tracking, motion sensing etc... into more complex, experimental games, then I'll be interested. The possibilities are there, I'm not sure if the developers are yet.

tman

If they had priced it around £50 or less then I might have been interested, but paying £100 for a gimmicky throwaway toy??? **** right off!

Fingleberries

I'd say we all knew that Wii-clone games were coming in their droves, and that may be fine for a while (novelty value and all). Microsoft won't mind, because there's a big market of Wii owners who might be looking to the next step this Christmas to replace the Wii that 'junior' got a few years back.

The thing that interests me most, and is likey to attract more gamers would be what they can do for games that have a hybrid control method (using a combo of the controller and Kinect). The potential to add an extra depth could be fun there:

• Calling for the ball from CPU players, Organising a free-kick, Claiming offside in FIFA?
• Giving directions to CPU team mates in Rainbow Six type games?
• Fable III is using it, it is rumoured, to grab people running past you.
• Not to mention, Milo ... Actually, on second thoughts, let's not mention Milo ...

That and the 'Minority Report' menus could be a plus (but not worth €150 yet). I guess we'll all know more by 8pm tonight, eh?

Benzino

Sounds fantastic!

Just saw one of the promo videos, was almost vomit-inducing!

It was everything I expected it to be tbh. Even from the promo video, the lag was just aweful at times. At one stage, the players avatar jumped even though the player didn't.

It's needs to be 100% accurate, or very close to it for it to enjoyable. You just have to play a game of Gears online to see what a laggy game is like to play. Kinect is just not ready to be released imo.

Fingleberries

Benzino wrote: »

It was everything I expected it to be tbh. Even from the promo video, the lag was just aweful at times. At one stage, the players avatar jumped even though the player didn't.

Lag? Did you see the Star Wars clip - the character moved on the screen before the Cirque de Soleil performer. [Hmm? Oh, he wasn't really playing it live on-stage ... ahhhhh]

I have to agree, though. All the sickly family footage with Mom and Pop running and jumping with the Kids is a bit much. We get that they're targeting the family market, it's just laying it on a bit thick.

I'm still hopeful for the potential ... Although I am probably one of the few people who owned a Sega Mega CD 32X, so my track record on potential is not exactly great. :pac:

Grumpypants

Benzino wrote: »

Just saw one of the promo videos just was almost vomit-inducing!

It was everything I expected it to be tbh. Even from the promo video, the lag was just aweful at times. At one stage, the players avatar jumped even though the player didn't.

It's needs to be 100% accurate, or very close to it for it to enjoyable. You just have to play a game of Gears online to see what a laggy game is like to play. Kinect is just not ready to be released imo.

It does work thats for certain, They use pre recorded videos in those vids for some reason. Im worried about the party games but im struggling to think of how they will use it with serious games without making it a hinderence.

I think an End wars style voice/ camera/ button control system would be brilliant. Where you can move around the war zone with the normal control pad. Then use you hand to selcet units and then tell them where to go and what to do using your mic.

Benzino

Sounds fantastic!

Fingleberries wrote: »

Lag? Did you see the Star Wars clip - the character moved on the screen before the Cirque de Soleil performer. [Hmm? Oh, he wasn't really playing it live on-stage ... ahhhhh]:

I didn't see that one actually, just saw the one with the family playing the game where they are on a raft hitting balloons??? That was enough for me to be honest.

Grumpypants wrote: »

It does work thats for certain, They use pre recorded videos in those vids for some reason.

Thats strange, do they not have enough confidence in it for the promo vids? I must check out the videos where they were playing the game live so.

hightower1

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Even if its only for the interface purposes of the device I'll still buy it.
We have to expect MS to want to sell to the wii audience which inevitable means crap loads of shovel ware stuff that the wii kids and women lap up.

However there are some serious games that could hugely benefit, as one poster already said... team action controls in rainbow six games would be excellent, golf games like tiger woods would be great! but what I really miss are proper stratagy games on the consoles, they are so few and far between and perhaps NOW they can really get on the consoles with natal Kintec.

Move will die on its a**e , its clearly a rip off wii whereas kinect is an evolution of the media, socom looks like a glorified time crisis game ffs.

Grumpypants

Benzino wrote: »

Thats strange, do they not have enough confidence in it for the promo vids? I must check out the videos where they were playing the game live so.

Thats the big if, they are being so secrective and showing these pre recorded videos doesnt fill me with confidence. Dont know why they are doing it becaue ive played it and it does work they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Captain Chaos

As I've said before on here soon after Natal was first announced, RTS games on the 360 is where Kinect could really shine if the dev teams put the work in.

Games like Command and Conquer, End War and Halo Wars could really open up and become more complex while remaining easy to control and mange, with added voice control that Kinect has and the basics of it used in Rainbox Six games for years even on Xbox 1 and End War last year it has alot of potential if they lay off the shovel ware and cater for the hardcore gaming market.

Another way it could be used is, the way real world SWAT and special forces teams use hand signals to give orders without speaking. You could be playing Rainbow Six whatever as normal with the controller, your squad in behind you. You could raise your hand, then your character ingame would do the same action and your team would hold. Take it as far you like really.

Mcjmetroid

Sounds fantastic!

yep so far so bad.

rizzla

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Mcjmetroid wrote: »

yep so far so bad.

meh, it was more intended as a proof of concept anyway.

hightower1

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Mcjmetroid wrote: »

yep so far so bad.

you saying you WOULDNT buy a star wars game where you could live multiplay lightsaber dual mates!!!!

imagine this... house party.... light saber duals .... looser takes a shot!
Let hilarity ensue!

Mcjmetroid

Sounds fantastic!

hightower1 wrote: »

you saying you WOULDNT buy a star wars game where you could live multiplay lightsaber dual mates!!!!

imagine this... house party.... light saber duals .... looser takes a shot!
Let hilarity ensue!

Oh it sounds great an all but all we can do at the moment is use our imagination

it's not executed right here yet.

cheeseofdoom

I think the fact that there is a Star Wars game makes it a lot more appealing.

I wouldn't buy it for the family/casual games but I played the Ricochet demo game and it was kinda fun. It's strange not using any controller and having a sensor seamlessly pick up two players while ignoring people standing behind them. Also the whole navigating through your music, movies and games using hand gestures is a pretty nice feature. I didn't feel as though it picked up all of my hand movements when I was moving quite fast to hit the ball but I was told that this was not the final build.

cheeseofdoom

Also, you'd want to be careful because I kicked the foot of the person I was playing with quite hard, we forgot we were standing next to each other and clashed feet. Ouch. Imagine a footie game in close proximity!

EGriff

Can't see how a lightsaber or any kind of sword fight would work since there's no resistance. As in you swing your arms, the guys on screen swings but gets blocked and then you're gone totally out of sync because you followed through.

Just like in red steel. (Which was rubbish(though I haven't played the second 1))

Venom

I can see it working from a Microsoft point of view as it will pull in sales from homes that have a 360 but want some of the Wii style party games but cant be bothered buying another console. They also get the menus and rest of the new dashboard.

From a real gamer point of view I just cant see it working for various reasons...

1) no buttons to press seriously limits game functionality.

2) lack of any must have launch software wont get people queing up overnight to buy it.

3) playing a current big name title like Forza or Halo would tire the player out damm quick. Try holding your arms out like the racing games demoed and see how long you will last

A mix of kinect + wireless xbox controller tho could be a damm sweet combo tho but only time will tell.

rizzla

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

Venom wrote: »

3) playing a current big name title like Forza or Halo would tire the player out damm quick. Try holding your arms out like the racing games demoed and see how long you will last

Yeah but imagine how cool it will be driving with the controler in cockpit view but being able to move your head to look around the cockpit. Checking your left and right mirrors with the slight turn of your head.

Captain Chaos

rizzla wrote: »

Yeah but imagine how cool it will be driving with the controler in cockpit view but being able to move your head to look around the cockpit. Checking your left and right mirrors with the slight turn of your head.

That would be class. Thats how Track IR works, I use it with flight sims and tactical shooters. It makes games alot easier and more involved and natural.

rizzla

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

That's where I see the most potential. Not in fully Kinect games but more of a hybrid between standard controls and the device.

WolfForager

Sounds fantastic!

hightower1 wrote: »

Move will die on its a**e , its clearly a rip off wii whereas kinect is an evolution of the media, socom looks like a glorified time crisis game ffs.

That's like saying that Natal is a rip off of the PS eye.

Ye i went there.

Mcjmetroid

Sounds fantastic!

WolfForager wrote: »

That's like saying that Natal is a rip off of the PS eye.

Ye i went there.

Which was a rip-off of a dreamcast project called the dreameye

Look Kinection was a disappointment at e3, The games were extremely uninspired and it's funny how the possibilities seem endless for a hands-free controller but yet it ends up looking more limited than the wii-mote.

I believe sony MOVE will finally show hardcore gamers the fuss about motion gaming once and for all.

Captain Chaos

Mcjmetroid wrote: »

I believe sony MOVE will finally show hardcore gamers the fuss about motion gaming once and for all.

I think Kinect did that when it showed off the head tracking while driving in Forza 3, that was better and more practical that SOCOM 4 Move demo imo, instead of holding a glowing dildo to aim a gun.

The Track IR system for the PC is where Kinect will shine in the hardcore gaming market or where is should shine on the 360.

hightower1

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

What are ye on about?!

Move is identical to the wii in all the ways that matter...

Its literally a copy of the wii and nun chuck (all be it a little more homosexual with the colourdey balls "yyyyaaaayyyy") ...

Kinect takes the Wii concept and advances it with removal of the hand held devices.

Here's some definitions to clear it up....


cop·y (kp)
n. pl. cop·ies
1. An imitation or reproduction of an original; a duplicate


ev·o·lu·tion (v-lshn, v-)
n.
1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

If thats too difficult here are some pictures to help, see if find the idea thats NOT copying the rest!!!

WolfForager

Sounds fantastic!

Move is 1:1 and moves in 3d space, unlike the Wii which only moves on the horizontal and vertical, now that is evolution.

Natal does everything the Eye did/does and improves on it, evolution again.

Wowzers.

Gunmonkey

Yeah, I almost have a brain haemorage everytime MS say how the Kinect "removes the controler" for another BS mini-game compilation thats bears a very VERY striking resemblance to Wii games from 4 years ago.

Wheres the RTS games using gesture controls??

Or the PROPER game with integration between Kinect and a normal controller??

Or anything that will convince me to buy a Kinect?? Or am I just not the target demographic, instead its aimed at families and people who havent picked up a controller before.........

FFS Microsoft, stop trying to chase the Wii-dollars. The people who bought a Wii for family friendly games arent gonna drop a good €300 - €400 on another console for the same experience they already get on their Wii.

WolfForager

Sounds fantastic!

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/14318622/playstation-motion-controller-e3-demo-series/videos/e10_psmove_spc_tech_061310.html?show=hi

Watch that Move tech demo, if you say that that isn't evolutionary in comparison to the wii ad natal is to the eye then i don't think i'll ever be able to take you seriously.

NotorietyH

Gunmonkey wrote: »

Yeah, I almost have a brain haemorage everytime MS say how the Kinect "removes the controler" for another BS mini-game compilation thats bears a very VERY striking resemblance to Wii games from 4 years ago.

Hell it bears a striking resemblance to PS Eye games released on the PS2, never mind the Wii.

hightower1

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

WolfForager wrote: »

http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/14318622/playstation-motion-controller-e3-demo-series/videos/e10_psmove_spc_tech_061310.html?show=hi

Watch that Move tech demo, if you say that that isn't evolutionary in comparison to the wii ad natal is to the eye then i don't think i'll ever be able to take you seriously.

I've seen the tech demo's already and IMO the move is simply a fancy wii emulator.
Its like taking a product, tweaking and enhancing slightly and calling it something new? The iPhone 4 has more features than an iPhone gen1 but yet essentially its the same thing.

Kinect is the concept of the wii advanced further and evolved, they took the concept and took it a step further, move took the concept and inched it further.




Put it this way.... describe Kinect to a casual gamer.... now try and describe move. Which one do you think they are going to say....."Isnt that jut Wii?" to?





Not that I am absolutely blown away with Kinect, I think they are still trying to take the Wii route for the most part and as a hardcore gamer I reject that from the brand.... BUT... I do understand MS are a company here to make money and undoubtedly the Wii is doing that. If it means we have to put up with MS putting out these cringe worthy shovel ware titles to fund the device and establish it then I will grin and bear it because to me Kinect represents massive possibilities for core games. The more money it makes and the more established it is the more possibilities open for the tech.

NotorietyH

hightower1 wrote: »

I've seen the tech demo's already and IMO the move is simply a fancy wii emulator.
Its like taking a product, tweaking and enhancing slightly

That is evolution. Copying would be if it was exactly the same. It's not.

Natal is something different to Wii, it's not an evolution, it's controller-free gaming for better or for worse. Worse in my opinion.

As I said in the E3 thread. I don't want controller free gaming until I can control games with my mind :P

hightower1

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

NotorietyH wrote: »

That is evolution. Copying would be if it was exactly the same. It's not.

Natal is something different to Wii, it's not an evolution, it's controller-free gaming for better or for worse. Worse in my opinion.

As I said in the E3 thread. I don't want controller free gaming until I can control games with my mind :P

Uuuurrrggghhhhh......

OK.... HERE....WE .....GO ..... AGAIN......


Wii = game controll using a two handed wireless motion sensetive device.

Move = game controll using a two handed wireless motion sensetive device.

Kinect = Game controll using your body and voice as a motion sensetive device.


See, two of those are identical, one however is not, it IS however the basic concept of the others (i.e game controll using motion and other non standard inputs) so if an idea takes an already existing concept.... builds on this with new twists on the original its ......EVOLUTION.

Eg homosapians taking primate ideas of ground shuffeling and modefying that to walking.... same basic idea (movement) but with its own twist.

gizmo

The minority report menus are it's best/only feature.

The indignant rage from some people regarding the launch titles is nothing short of hilarious. Do people forget it takes a couple of years to develop a AAA game for the console? Do people also forget that this hardware hasn't been in the hands of developers for more than a year? Seriously, take a deep breath and think about it. The technology does show promise however it'll take awhile for some developers to get the hang of it and we see some quality implementations for it, be it software designed specifically for the device or at least additions to normal games which take clever advantage of it.

As for the Move vs. Kinect argument which seems to be brewing, the two sets of motion controls are completely different and so comparing them directly is a bit silly. Regarding what I and indeed others have said before, however, is that while Kinect allows you to do something different which can be used in conjunction with a controller, Move is an actual replacement for the controller, something that I personally ain't too fond of.

NotorietyH

hightower1 wrote: »

Uuuurrrggghhhhh......

OK.... HERE....WE .....GO ..... AGAIN......

NO maybe you should list the ways that Move is different to the Wii motion controller rather than just giving a vague, general description of the product. WolfForager has already listed the ways that Move improves and enhances on the Wii tech with 3D tracking etc. Evolution is gradual improvement over time through a series of small steps, which is exactly what Move is to the Wii. If you can't see how that's an evolution of a product than there's no point even debating it. By your methods of definition the Model T Ford is the exact same a Ferrari Enzo, both are four wheeled motorized vehicles controlled by a steering wheel.

AS many including myself have said, Natal is closer to the evolution of the PS Eye and similar devices than the Wii. Yet it is still an evolution of the principles of motion controlled gaming that Wii pioneered. There's no reason bot Kinect and Move can't both be evolutions, any argument otherwise just reeks of petty fanboyism.

Something you also failed to show in your pictures showing that the Move was a duplicate of the Wii is the fact that you can utilise both main controllers for Move, eg in that demo where one controller was the characters sword and the other his shield, will full 3D stracking of each, even if it was placed behind his back. Something not possible on the Wii. Which implies a gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex, better form.

Now where have I heard that before but said in a patronising way? Oh yeah...

hightower1 wrote: »

ev·o·lu·tion (v-lshn, v-)
n.
1. A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

Move adds the camera to the controller for better tracking etc. Kinect removes the controller and puts a camera in its place.