So then Belgium...soon to be an ex country?

mike65

The "Belgians" go to the polls on Sunday and the Dutch speaking nationalists of the New Flemish Alliance look likely to be the largest party. They want to end the marraige with the Walloons who they regard as expensive and wasteful. An interesting related matter is the attitude of the French public who appear to be ready to absorb Wallonia if the split happens. I'm not aware Dutch are seeking a link up with the Flemish in Flanders

What happens to Brussels, which officially is in the Brussels-Capital Region? I suppose it would become a good old fashioned City State.

peasant

Yeah ...and Eupen-Malmedy is going to be annexed by the Germans and there we have it ....world war III

Iwasfrozen

mike65 wrote: »

The "Belgians" go to the polls on Sunday and the Dutch speaking nationalists of the New Flemish Alliance look likely to be the largest party. They want to end the marraige with the Walloons who they regard as expensive and wasteful. An interesting related matter is the attitude of the French public who appear to be ready to absorb Wallonia if the split happens. I'm not aware Dutch are seeking a link up with the Flemish in Flanders

What happens to Brussels, which officially is in the Brussels-Capital Region? I suppose it would become a good old fashioned City State.

It would probably come under E.U control. Kind of like Washington D.C.

Denerick

I doubt it would become an EU 'state'. Brussels is a large city and it more than justifies being a State. As far as I know its pretty well split between French and Dutch speakers, so it wouldn't go to either side in the case of a Belgian seperation...

Sulmac

Denerick wrote: »

I doubt it would become an EU 'state'. Brussels is a large city and it more than justifies being a State. As far as I know its pretty well split between French and Dutch speakers, so it wouldn't go to either side in the case of a Belgian seperation...

The problem with Brussels is that it is located fully within Flanders but is mostly French-speaking (although officially bilingual). Only 7% of Brussels residents speak Dutch exclusively at home versus 57% who speak French exclusively.

It's an interesting case though, especially considering what might happen to each "component" of Belgium - there are four (Flanders, Wallonia, Brussels and the small German-speaking territory in the east which is part of Wallonia). What would happen?

Would each component become independent, or join up with the bigger country that it borders and shares a common language with (excluding Brussels of course)?

Another issue is how Belgium's public debt would be divided up, one factor that could keep the country together.

Denerick

Sulmac wrote: »

The problem with Brussels is that it is located fully within Flanders but is mostly French-speaking (although officially bilingual). Only 7% of Brussels residents speak Dutch exclusively at home versus 57% who speak French exclusively.

It's an interesting case though, especially considering what might happen to each "component" of Belgium - there are four (Flanders, Wallonia, Brussels and the small German-speaking territory in the east which is part of Wallonia). What would happen?

Would each component become independent, or join up with the bigger country that it borders and shares a common language with (excluding Brussels of course)?

Another issue is how Belgium's public debt would be divided up, one factor that could keep the country together.

The only institution that really keeps Belgium together is its monarchy. Then again the national debt plays a role. Either way, belgium was founded as an artificial state, so it mightn't be a bad idea if it did split up. That kind of political instability is un-natural and largely un-necessary. Partition may be the best solution to the country.

Sulmac

Denerick wrote: »

The only institution that really keeps Belgium together is its monarchy. Then again the national debt plays a role. Either way, belgium was founded as an artificial state, so it mightn't be a bad idea if it did split up. That kind of political instability is un-natural and largely un-necessary. Partition may be the best solution to the country.

True, Yves Leterme even said the only things common to all Belgians are "the King, the football team, some beers..." :P

Lockstep

Denerick wrote: »

I doubt it would become an EU 'state'. Brussels is a large city and it more than justifies being a State. As far as I know its pretty well split between French and Dutch speakers, so it wouldn't go to either side in the case of a Belgian seperation...

Brussels is largely French speaking. This had meant it has become the effective pin holding Wallonia and Flanders together; the Flemish can't abondon such a large city but can't absorb it, given that only a minority speak Dutch.

The fact it is in the Flemish region means that the Walloons can't absorb it either (although most Walloons realize that they need Flanders to stay afloat)

Lockstep

Denerick wrote: »

The only institution that really keeps Belgium together is its monarchy.

Very true. Same with the football team.
The BElgians are very attached to the king.

Denerick wrote: »

Then again the national debt plays a role.

A fair amount of the national debt comes from the language conundrum, with everything needing to be mirrored across the language divide, from investment to translating everything multiple times. The Belgians call it waffle-iron politics with any concessions to Flanders needing to be mirrored in Wallonia.
One of my lecturers mentioned that a massive reason for the national debt is the language divide, when services, legislation, goods and so on need to be done identically in different languages, then you quickly run up a sizable bill.

Denerick wrote: »

Either way, belgium was founded as an artificial state, so it mightn't be a bad idea if it did split up. That kind of political instability is un-natural and largely un-necessary. Partition may be the best solution to the country.

Traditionally, Belgians have been unconcerned with whoever governed them as long as they were left alone. Most revolutions (Brabant, Dutch Revolt, the secession of the Northern Provinces etc) came about when their foreign ruler tried to institute large scale reforms, even when it would have been to the BElgian's advantage.

Lockstep

Right, was keeping my ear to the ground on this.

By the looks of things, Belgium is unlikely to split.
NVA will probably get 24%, CDV 20%, socialists at 14% and liberals at 12%.

CDV and NVA will probably form a coalition government, most likely with the socialists.

There's not enough of a political majority to split Belgium though. NVA are getting a lot of support from frustrated conservatives who are frustrated with the CDV's leniency with the Walloons rather than secessionists.

prinz

kickoutthejams wrote: »

Right, was keeping my ear to the ground on this. By the looks of things, Belgium is unlikely to split.

If it didn't split back in the day when there were running street battles through cities like Leuven I doubt it will split any time soon.

RandomName2

mike65 wrote: »

The "Belgians" go to the polls on Sunday and the Dutch speaking nationalists of the New Flemish Alliance look likely to be the largest party. They want to end the marraige with the Walloons who they regard as expensive and wasteful. An interesting related matter is the attitude of the French public who appear to be ready to absorb Wallonia if the split happens. I'm not aware Dutch are seeking a link up with the Flemish in Flanders

What happens to Brussels, which officially is in the Brussels-Capital Region? I suppose it would become a good old fashioned City State.

If the Flemish are going to go to the trouble of breaking from Belgium, the least the they could do is to attempt to leave the EU as well. Anything else is bizarre, costly, acrimonious window-dressing. But, then again, that might typify this type of nationalism.

Nuravictus

RandomName2 wrote: »

If the Flemish are going to go to the trouble of breaking from Belgium, the least the they could do is to attempt to leave the EU as well. Anything else is bizarre, costly, acrimonious window-dressing. But, then again, that might typify this type of nationalism.

Wouldn't the femlish just be absorbed into Netherlands, thou I would prefer for it to just remain two sperate states, Wallonia & Flanders.

Lockstep

Nuravictus wrote: »

Wouldn't the femlish just be absorbed into Netherlands, thou I would prefer for it to just remain two sperate states, Wallonia & Flanders.

I really doubt this will happen. Belgium came about as a split from the Netherlands in 1831 so it'd be historically obnoxious to the Flemish. Plus the Flemish appear to dislike the Dutch in general (although I have only my personal experiences here)

simonj

Well, the dutch opinion is if the Waloons went back to France, it would raise the IQ of two countries simultaneously :P

CiaranMT

simonj wrote: »

Well, the dutch opinion is if the Waloons went back to France, it would raise the IQ of two countries simultaneously :P

That would be the Dutch opinion

Cool Mo D

It's important to remember that the Flemish hate the Dutch and the Walloons hate the French a lot more then they dislike each other. That's pretty much why it's a country in the first place.

Psychedelia

This whole split became apparent to me when i was emailing my belgian friend (walloon) and i was saying that i wanted to buy a flag cos i usually did when i visited diff countries and he informed me that buing a flag might be a tall order!

but what's the current situation like? will there still be a country to go on holidays too in two weeks?! :P

Lockstep

Psychedelia wrote: »

This whole split became apparent to me when i was emailing my belgian friend (walloon) and i was saying that i wanted to buy a flag cos i usually did when i visited diff countries and he informed me that buing a flag might be a tall order!

That surprises me. LOads of them hanging around Belgium at a time like this when Belgians want to show their support for the union. There's a few hanging up in my house anyway!


I doubt BElgium will split anytime soon. Extremely unlikely to happen.

simonj

CiaranMT wrote: »

That would be the Dutch opinion

Turlich

Victor

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0915/breaking8.html

So it seems like they just might form a government - about time.