primetime on banking report

ei.sdraob

Now on RTE, with Cowen apparently appearing shortly

Central Bank Governor John Hurley, to ACI Ireland - 11 October 2007 wrote:

"Our stress-testing of the banking system and our extensive financial stability analysis indicates that Irish banks are solidly profitable and well-capitalised and, consequently, have good shock- absorption capacity to deal with risks emanating from the current period of heightened stress in financial markets. . . I would add that we in the Central Bank, along with our colleagues in the Financial Regulator, have been monitoring our domestic situation very closely."

classic

Liam Byrne

Cheers!

The guy speaking at the mo is making sense.

ei.sdraob

Omg Cowen is still blaming Lehman Bros :eek: and saying IMF was saying that economy was all dandy (they were warning since 2003 at least as posted by me before)

arghghghghgh :mad:

gandalf

Oh dear Miriam you really didn't nail him at all.

As usual RTE are too soft on FF in interviews.

Liam Byrne

"People don't want a history lesson"

That shows how out-of-touch the guy is!!!!

Apart from the fact that I've never heard of - for example - a court case presentation of evidence referred to as "a history lesson", he's deluded if he thinks that he can brush this under the carpet without allowing a proper discussion of who is responsible.

robbie67

that was a party political broadcast for ff

gandalf

Is there any way we can import Jeremy Paxman to Interview Cowen. Now that would be good viewing!

rovert

lol Ireland is **** at everything, we arent even in the World Cup

Liam Byrne

robbie67 wrote: »

that was a party political broadcast for ff

Well, if nothing else, it was pretty obvious that RTE allowed Cowen to be on on his own where he didn't have to be challenged properly by Ross & Bruton.

There were a few points within Cowen's bull**** that O'Callaghan could have nailed him, but she held back each time and only tried to shut him up rather than challenge him on it.

EDIT : The one place I will give RTE full credit was the montage where all the FF idiots were lined up blaming international factors and Lehmans......

.....that should have teed them up nicely to knock Cowen out of the ball-park, but they bottled it!

stepbar

I certainly don't want a history lesson, I know it well enough by now. And repeating it will not change anything. But what I want to see is those who created our recent financial history brought to justice in a court of law, and not a kangaroo court.

And I'll add that Brian Cowan should now do the honourable thing and step down in the interest of the nation. And once that process has happened, I'll be more than happy to see him in front of a court of law along with a few others namely neary, ahern and a few others under both.

Welease

stepbar wrote: »

I certainly don't want a history lesson, I know it well enough by now. And repeating it will not change anything. But what I want to see is those who created our recent financial history brought to justice in a court of law, and not a kangaroo court.

And I'll add that Brian Cowan should now do the honourable thing and step down in the interest of the nation. And once that process has happened, I'll be more than happy to see him in front of a court of law along with a few others namely neary, ahern and a few others under both.

Don't hold your breath! (did we do anything to Charlie? Bertie?)

Liam Byrne

Dire and all as TV3 is, at least Vincent Browne won't hold back later.

Of course, I doubt that there will be any FF apologists on that, because they haven't the guts to face him.

stepbar

Welease wrote: »

Don't hold your breath! (did we do anything to Charlie? Bertie?)

People were too interested in their own self interest. Too busy chasing profit and greed. Times have changed. Bertie was a lucky man. He sure timed his exit. As for Charlie, we only found out the real extent of his dealings in the late 90's and by that time we were on the cusp of a prosperous wave in Ireland. Got away with because he was an old sick man.

I was talking to a pair of businessmen today who couldn't understand how the rear guard are still running the banks as they stand today. Nor could they understand how the likes of Seany Fitz hasn't been brought to task yet. I couldn't disagree with them, although at one point I might have been inclined to defend those who we now know drove the mess we are in. Not anymore. If there's one thing I hope will come out of all this is that, as a nation, each and everyone of us will not accept the sayings of those in power as gospel per se.

Welease

stepbar wrote: »

People were too interested in their own self interest. Too busy chasing profit and greed. Times have changed. Bertie was a lucky man. He sure timed his exit. As for Charlie, we only found out the real extent of his dealings in the late 90's and by that time we were on the cusp of a prosperous wave in Ireland. Got away with because he was an old sick man.

I was talking to a pair of businessmen today who couldn't understand how the rear guard are still running the banks as they stand today. Nor could they understand how the likes of Seany Fitz hasn't been brought to task yet. I couldn't disagree with them, although at one point I might have been inclined to defend those who we now know drove the mess we are in. Not anymore. If there's one thing I hope will come out of all this is that, as a nation, each and everyone of us will not accept the sayings of those in power as gospel per se.

Really?, I'd be willing to bet Cowan will be voted in again.. The boards of AIB and BOI remain in place etc... Willie O'Dea will be voted back in again.. Bertie could be voted back in again if he wished.. etc etc etc..

What exactly will the voting populace of Ireland change?

stepbar

Welease wrote: »

Really?, I'd be willing to bet Cowan will be voted in again.. The boards of AIB and BOI remain in place etc... Willie O'Dea will be voted back in again.. Bertie could be voted back in again if he wished.. etc etc etc..

What exactly will the voting populace of Ireland change?

Common denominator there is Fianna Fail and if the Irish Nation has any backbone they will not be voted back into Government.

gurramok

stepbar wrote: »

although at one point I might have been inclined to defend those who we now know drove the mess we are in. Not anymore. If there's one thing I hope will come out of all this is that, as a nation, each and everyone of us will not accept the sayings of those in power as gospel per se.

I remember those debates, glad you have seen the light

Why couldn't Cowen just blame Bertie for the trouble along the lines of 'i was just taking orders from the then Taoiseach'?:P

rovert

stepbar wrote: »

Common denominator there is Fianna Fail and if the Irish Nation has any alternative they will not be voted back into Government.

FIXED

Welease

stepbar wrote: »

Common denominator there is Fianna Fail and if the Irish Nation has any backbone they will not be voted back into Government.

It's not just FF.. bring any single non political person into the frame (regulators, pedo priests, bishops covering up, failing health service) and will the opposition leader call them out? No.. they won't comment they will "urge them to do the right thing"..

This country has no backbone, and the electorate can be bought off with the opening of a local swimming pool... Like it or not, thats how this country works.

kuntboy

If Cowen says "Lehman brothers" once more I think I'll explode. What the FUKC did Lehman brothers have to do with us?!

Riskymove

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well, if nothing else, it was pretty obvious that RTE allowed Cowen to be on on his own where he didn't have to be challenged properly by Ross & Bruton.

that isn't really RTE's fault.....if he wont aoppear with others then their choice is a 1 to 1 or no interview so they take the 1 on 1

I doubt Newstalk or TV3 would be any different

cson

Newstalk or TV3 would have roasted him last night though.

I don't wish to Cowan nailed to the cross on his own for the troubles of the Irish State; but I do wish him to be big enough to assume responsibility and not use Lehmann Brothers/Other Nations Did The Same/Who could have forseen it shield.

Riskymove

cson wrote: »

Newstalk or TV3 would have roasted him last night though.

Vincent Browne, sure, but he is never gonna be there

Drumpot

stepbar wrote: »

I certainly don't want a history lesson, I know it well enough by now. And repeating it will not change anything. But what I want to see is those who created our recent financial history brought to justice in a court of law, and not a kangaroo court.

And I'll add that Brian Cowan should now do the honourable thing and step down in the interest of the nation. And once that process has happened, I'll be more than happy to see him in front of a court of law along with a few others namely neary, ahern and a few others under both.

Agree with the first paragraph and agree that Cowan should step down . . But why should he be in front of a court of law ? I wouldn't class him in the same mold as Bertie or Charlie by any stretch of the imagination.

His biggest crime was making a huge costly error, that was in no way deserving criminal proceedings. He deserves to lose his job, thats enough. Bertie was the one steering the ship (banking/building) sector towards ruin (and the one "allegedly" taking backhanders). Cowan played a huge role in this mess, but it was negligence on his part.

While I know its unpopular to say rational things about Fianna Fail and what their fate should be, a little realism wouldn't go astray the odd time . .


Going into fantasy Ireland where people get their just deserts -

The people I want to see on front of court are Bertie, JOD etc (and all other expense frauds), the golden circle, bank execs that acted in a manner that has caused this crisis, neery (pension stripped at very least), county councellors who zoned land without proper care (my estate is on a floodplain!). Higher ranking public servants sacked, if it transpires that they lost significant amounts of money for the state through either laziness or negligence. . Lets make our money go further and lets make accountability real in the public/civil service overall.

Oops . . But that's not what the Irish Electorate really want, if it involves taking pain in our pockets. . They just want another government (as if that makes everything alright!) that tells them what they want to hear (which is really that they wont pay for any of this mess!). .

Seriously , the fact that labors support is high is thankfully only a sign of peoples anger. I assume closer to election that will drop and sanity will prevail. I have no problem with Labor other then the fact that they are sitting on the fence on practically everything. In what world can that make a good government ?

Also, a large portion of their jump/spike in popularity is from the public service whose votes were originally bought by FF and who now find themselves looking for whichever party promises to take the least amount off them (Yay Ireland is pillaged by yet another self interested group, if it aint the builders, its the . . . )

Riskymove

Drumpot wrote: »

Going into fantasy Ireland where people get their just deserts -

The people I want to see on front of court are Bertie, JOD etc (and all other expense frauds), the golden circle, bank execs that acted in a manner that has caused this crisis, neery (pension stripped at very least), county councellors who zoned land without proper care (my estate is on a floodplain!). Higher ranking public servants sacked, if it transpires that they lost significant amounts of money for the state through either laziness or negligence. . Lets make our money go further and lets make accountability real in the public/civil service overall.

while I dont have an issue with your points generally, I find it strange you saw Cowen should not be before courts as he did not do anything illegal but then suggest others should be despite not doing anything illegal either

JOD did not commit any 'fraud' in the legal sense of the word

and as far as I know, being crap at your job is not illegal either

btw I am not defending any of these people

Drumpot

Riskymove wrote: »

while I dont have an issue with your points generally, I find it strange you saw Cowen should not be before courts as he did not do anything illegal but then suggest others should be despite not doing anything illegal either

JOD did not commit any 'fraud' in the legal sense of the word

and as far as I know, being crap at your job is not illegal either

btw I am not defending any of these people

I know what you are saying and know I am just living in the clouds but personally, I just think Cowan got things wrong . . JOD and his likes used the laws to line their pockets. Morally I think there is a huge differance.

I think losing your job for doing it poorly is appropriate discipline for a bad job. Afterall, he was hired by the Irish People, so we can only blame ourselves for putting him in charge. I dont think anybody really believes that Cowan intented on sabotaging our nations finances. But we all know the intentions of JOD and their likes (to milk the system). If we allow them to hide behind (well its law and everybody was doing it) then nothing will ever change.

Its similar for the bankers, they can hide behind laws that currently protect them. How has fingers/fitz or regulator not been pulled into criminal proceedings?. Because the laws protect them (technically they did nothing wrong), even massaging a companies account (and a regulator encouraging it) is legal . .

For the greater good of the country we should change the laws to chase people taking the mikey (including rogue bankers). They did it in US to retrospectively chase bankers acting outside of a code of ethics (or so to speak). Problem is obviously the political and nations will to do what is needed to really clean things up.

Stripping it down to even a matter of principle (forgetting laws), I still dont think Cowan deserves anymore punishment then losing his job , but I would still want JOD pursued . . Ignorance is not a defence . . I believe in principles that I feel our electorate dont really put much importance on.

dan_d

I've said it before - now is the time to start setting the precedent for future generations, and making it clear that the behaviour of those listed in Drumpot's posts is shown to be wholly and totally unacceptable.

I actually agree with what you say about Brian Cowen, though I do think he should stand up and say he screwed up, he had no experience of finance and acted on what he was told by so-called experts/dept of finance and he couldn't turn the tide against what his party wanted and enjoyed at the time. (as I said in another thread yesterday). He might actually gain a bit of respect that way.

Drumpot

dan_d wrote: »

I've said it before - now is the time to start setting the precedent for future generations, and making it clear that the behaviour of those listed in Drumpot's posts is shown to be wholly and totally unacceptable.

I actually agree with what you say about Brian Cowen, though I do think he should stand up and say he screwed up, he had no experience of finance and acted on what he was told by so-called experts/dept of finance and he couldn't turn the tide against what his party wanted and enjoyed at the time. (as I said in another thread yesterday). He might actually gain a bit of respect that way.

Thats really my point and I completely agree that if Cowan held his hands up and took responsibility for his part in the collapse, I would certainly consider it a very positive step towards forgiving his mistakes. Same can be said for all T.D's. There is a culture of avoiding blame which is human nature, but unacceptable at that level.

If FG or Labor came out and said during the boom years they got it wrong aswell (mightnt of made same mistakes, but they wanted more spending), I would have more confidence in their ability to recognize their errors and to learn from their mistakes and with that take the country in a new direction. What frightens me the most is that we have a tired political circle that appears to learn little from this disaster. The old reliable pointing fingers, avoiding tough questions on your own policies and throwing stones back at the opposition/govt seems to be a cancer that spoils proper debate.

I have considered getting into politics, but feel that the principles I hold dearly would only mean I would be swallowed up in a Dail, rife with people who would do anything to hold onto their place at the table. I am sure there are honest politicians, but the problem would be working out which ones have just one face . . Also, telling the electorate the cold hard truth doesn't normally get people elected . . For all the vagabonds in this crisis, the electorate are the main ones giving them power to do their dirty deeds . . Its funny that we, the electorate, arent actually pissed off with ourselves for allowing these things happen . . Maybe when as a nation we take collective responsibility for our role in this mess, we can then start to properly piece together our fragile economy and vote in politicians with core principles at the top of their agenda's.

jmayo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well, if nothing else, it was pretty obvious that RTE allowed Cowen to be on on his own where he didn't have to be challenged properly by Ross & Bruton.

There were a few points within Cowen's bull**** that O'Callaghan could have nailed him, but she held back each time and only tried to shut him up rather than challenge him on it.

EDIT : The one place I will give RTE full credit was the montage where all the FF idiots were lined up blaming international factors and Lehmans......

.....that should have teed them up nicely to knock Cowen out of the ball-park, but they bottled it!

Ah for fecks sake Liam you do know that mirriam's brother runs for the party.
RTE's main hacks are all ff linked.

stepbar wrote: »

I certainly don't want a history lesson, I know it well enough by now. And repeating it will not change anything. But what I want to see is those who created our recent financial history brought to justice in a court of law, and not a kangaroo court.

Ah but stepbar history lessons are good.
It reminds people of where they went wrong, like the time you attacked me for saying the Irish banks were foobarred and you claimed your bank was very well capitalised much like mr neary did on Prime Time.
Soprry I couldn't resist.

stepbar wrote: »

And I'll add that Brian Cowan should now do the honourable thing and step down in the interest of the nation. And once that process has happened, I'll be more than happy to see him in front of a court of law along with a few others namely neary, ahern and a few others under both.

Agree and I would add in most of the other top bankers, hurley and neary's predecessor liam o'reilly who has managed to avoid any blame for this mess even though he helped cover up certain bank scandals like AIB overcharging.
But you are wrong in one assumption cowen and his gang will do nothing in the interest of anyone but themselves.

kuntboy wrote: »

If Cowen says "Lehman brothers" once more I think I'll explode. What the FUKC did Lehman brothers have to do with us?!

Maybe he knows a Lehman family in Offaly ?
Hell he probably thinks they were actually a gang of brothers that ran the bank.

RichardAnd

The last place anyone should be looking for real news is RTE. Real journalists tell the truth, no matter what it is; RTE spin facts twist figures and produce Red Herrings to keep their bosses happy.