No discussion of the reports ?

Liam Byrne

The biggest and most expensive (for ordinary people, anyways) cock-up in the history of the country and two reports released on it, and FF don't want it discussed ? :eek:

Overheal

Im sorry? Dont want what discussed?

gandalf

You mean these reports

Says they are going to be released later on today and an inquiry will be set up using the reports as a term of reference.

I'd say they will be discussed to death soon.

Liam Byrne

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/lenihan-receives-banking-inquiry-reports-2201996.html

It was just on the radio that FF have refused to have any discussion of same in the Dáil.

Permabear

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Liam Byrne

donegalfella wrote: »

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Yup, but Cowen doesn't want to allocate time in which he'd have to answer questions about it.

I shouldn't be surprised, really, considering the length of time it took them to realise and react to the crisis.

I'd also reckon the point the Independent made about remuneration being a concern would mean Cowen wants to have a chat with his mates first.

Poly

Cowen to give a press conference shortly,


Apparently the reports slate him.
Is this it, Will he resign?

Edit: Or will he just blame it all on those pesky Lehman bros

gandalf

Poly wrote: »

Cowen to give a press conference shortly,


Apparently the reports slates him.
Is this it, Will he resign?

TBH if it was any other democracy in Western Europe yes. But we live in Ireland where politicians have a neck as tough as a Jockeys nether regions.

I would be pleasantly surprised if Brian Cowen did the decent thing and stood down. Instead I expect talk of "we are where we are" and it "wouldn't help the hundreds of thousands of unemployed" (that some of their policies helped to create).

Poly

On RTE1 now

PeterIanStaker

Just read the news report.

Oooh, there'll be an "inquiry". I feel safer already.

Permabear

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Économiste Monétaire

Gov. Honohan's report is on the CBFSAI website.

Permabear

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rovert

Very 2007 these, nothing new.

Liam Byrne

Firstly, there's nothing the report that I wouldn't have copped already, and I'm no economist.

Secondly, Cowen obviously read a completely different report, because he made it sound like the report endorsed everything he did.

Thirdly, if nothing else, this will stop FF TDs coming on TV and lying through their teeth that this had anything to do with the global crisis or Lehman Bros.

dan_d

Skimming RTE's summary I get this - our banks did whatever the feck they wanted and the regulator was too "afraid" to say anything.

Grrr:mad:

Nijmegen

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Thirdly, if nothing else, this will stop FF TDs coming on TV and lying through their teeth that this had anything to do with the global crisis or Lehman Bros.

Welcome to Ireland, where I can assure you, this is entirely possible.

Sand

Thirdly, if nothing else, this will stop FF TDs coming on TV and lying through their teeth that this had anything to do with the global crisis or Lehman Bros.

Sadly it wont. It wont even motivate the sycophants interviewing them to call them on it.

Liam Byrne

Sand wrote: »

Sadly it wont. It wont even motivate the sycophants interviewing them to call them on it.

Well, I texted Matt Cooper earlier to know if he would do a public service and go back through interviews to see who trotted out this lie...

.....and then get them back on-air to ask them why they lied.

If I have to do it myself by trawling through podcasts, then I will.

jmayo

Poly wrote: »

Cowen to give a press conference shortly,


Apparently the reports slate him.
Is this it, Will he resign?

Edit: Or will he just blame it all on those pesky Lehman bros

Those fecking Lehman brothers, I hope their mother is proud of what they did to our fine economy.
We were doing great building houses like no ones business, we were nearly to the point where every one could have had at least two rental properties each for all the foreign workers to live in.
Ater all the hard work bertie and brian had done to build our fine economy to be wrecked by those iffffin brothers.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Well, I texted Matt Cooper earlier to know if he would do a public service and go back through interviews to see who trotted out this lie...

.....and then get them back on-air to ask them why they lied.

If I have to do it myself by trawling through podcasts, then I will.

Check if jack neddy o'keefe or frank "sinking ships" fahy were ever on ?
They were two of the worse spoofers.

RealityCheck

jmayo wrote: »

Those fecking Lehman brothers, I hope their mother is proud of what they did to our fine economy.

No doubt had the Bush administration decided to save Lehmans our economy would be saved . Its not as if the property market had'nt ground to a halt or anything!! We just stopped buying houses one day in the middle of September 2008. :rolleyes: .

RealityCheck

jmayo wrote: »

Check if jack neddy o'keefe or frank "sinking ships" fahy were ever on ?
They were two of the worse spoofers.

I'm more of a fan of the Mattie McGrath show at Lunchtime on Newstalk:D.

funnyname

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0609/breaking68.html

The banking reports by Prof Patrick Honohan and the international experts shattered “a number of myths” regarding the Government’s response to the crisis, Taoiseach Brian Cowen has told a news conference today.

However he doesn't mentioned that it shattered the myth of blaming it all on Lehman Brothers when they did respond.

maynooth_rules

Only in Ireland would the Finance Minister who ballsed up the country, now be in an even more powerful position:rolleyes:

maynooth_rules

The only positive to come from this might be that FF TDs and their die hard fans might finally drop blaming Lehmann Brothers for every single economic problem in this country.

peasant

maynooth_rules wrote: »

The only positive to come from this might be that FF TDs and their die hard fans might finally drop blaming Lehmann Brothers for every single economic problem in this country.

But it was Lehman Brother's fault, don't you see ...if it weren't for them, we would have had a "soft landing"

Nobody could ever possibly foresee that when you fall from the heights of the stratosphere, your landing would be anything but "soft" :rolleyes:

Lehman just put concrete on the green Irish grass so that the result of our landing is now a splat instead of a thud, but we're just as dead either way.

Mr.Micro

Biffo and FF do not want to debate the reports in the Dail because Biffo was in charge finance at the time, and these reports will only enhance the perception of his ineptitude as finance Minister at the time... and look where he is now. We have some democracy that such important reports are not going to be debated? It is small wonder that they were even published.

Nodin

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The biggest and most expensive (for ordinary people, anyways) cock-up in the history of the country and two reports released on it, and FF don't want it discussed ? :eek:

Yes, Quelle Suprise.

Weak regulation, counterproductive policies...and that doesn't cover the questions regarding the cosy relationship between regulator, banks, government and industry....

There was an album cover many years ago featuring Maggie Thatcher and Ronald Reagan with their hands down the front of each others respective garments. I'd imagine the cover of 'Historys Conclusions' on this whole fiasco will feature something similar, but with a larger number of participants.

northwest100

Make no mistake, this whole situation was caused by greedy irish people, not greedy bankers lending all that fake money.

pljudge321

northwest100 wrote: »

Make no mistake, this whole situation was caused by greedy irish people, not greedy bankers lending all that fake money.

These two things wouldn't be mutually exclusive though.

Liam Byrne

northwest100 wrote: »

Make no mistake, this whole situation was caused by greedy irish people, not greedy bankers lending all that fake money.

Are you suggesting that bankers aren't Irish people ?

Because if you're insisting on tarring "irish people" with the "greedy" tag, then remember that these bankers were irish people too.

Vinegar Hill

TAOISEACH Brian Cowen has decided to exempt himself and his previous economic policies from the investigation into the banking crash, writes Michael Brennan.

The draft terms of reference drawn up by himself and his cabinet do not cover his role as Minister for Finance from 2004-2008 when the property bubble and the level of reckless bank lending exploded.

Instead, the focus of the forthcoming Commission of Investigation will be on the errors made by the banks, auditors and financial regulators.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-to-escape-scrutiny-of-inquiry-2214659.html

So the Taoiseach will not be the subject in this investigation. Although he seems to have a lot to answer for these inquiries will not be looking at him or the government

Flimbos

There was a lot of talk about hindsight in Cowen's response, the old "if we knew then what we know now" reasoning. Much of his statement was along the lines of "Of course I take full responsibility for this... but... well, sure hindsight's a great thing!"

What about careful forward planning? Shouldn't political leaders of his standing and experience have this skill?

BlaasForRafa

Flimbos wrote: »

There was a lot of talk about hindsight in Cowen's response, the old "if we knew then what we know now" reasoning. Much of his statement was along the lines of "Of course I take full responsibility for this... but... well, sure hindsight's a great thing!"

What about careful forward planning? Shouldn't political leaders of his standing and experience have this skill?

I was watching Bryan Dobson interview him on the news last night and Cowen said he "took full responsibility for his actions" then went on a spiel about how it wasn't actually his fault so Dobson asked him "what actually ARE you taking responsibility for then", cue some mumble mumble mumble from Cowen.

BlaasForRafa

Vinegar Hill wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-to-escape-scrutiny-of-inquiry-2214659.html

So the Taoiseach will not be the subject in this investigation. Although he seems to have a lot to answer for these inquiries will not be looking at him or the government

Finance Minister Brian Lenihan said he would be willing to provide documents relating to the bank guarantee to the committee. And he said that Mr Cowen would be willing to lend assistance to the committee -- but only relating to the night of the bank guarantee.

So no-one in government did anything wrong prior to Sept 2008? No-one stoked up a housing boom?, No-one gave tax breaks to developers?, No-one let the public finances run out of control?

This is a stitch up by Cowen, Lenihan and FF, they know if anyone looked into their record closely that they would be found out for the bunch of incompetent crooks that they are.

the_dark_side

in the unlikely event of Brain Cowen stepping down, who becomes Taoiseach?! :eek:

BlaasForRafa

the_dark_side wrote: »

in the unlikely event of Brain Cowen stepping down, who becomes Taoiseach?! :eek:

Mary Coughlan is still the Tanaiste, now THATS a scary thought, her being taoiseach.

the_dark_side

we need a general election

zootroid

Cowen takes full responsibility, yet remains in office?

How he and the rest of FF can justify themselves remaining in office is beyond me. Just goes to show they don't have the national interests at heart, but are desperate to cling to power any way they can

T runner

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

So no-one in government did anything wrong prior to Sept 2008? No-one stoked up a housing boom?, No-one gave tax breaks to developers?, No-one let the public finances run out of control?

This is a stitch up by Cowen, Lenihan and FF, they know if anyone looked into their record closely that they would be found out for the bunch of incompetent crooks that they are.

Actually Brian Lenihan admitted to quite a lot on this mornings PK show. But dont let that get in the way of another useless irrational rant!

T runner

maynooth_rules wrote: »

Only in Ireland would the Finance Minister who ballsed up the country, now be in an even more powerful position:rolleyes:

Why only in Ireland? The UK could have made a similar complaint with Gordon Brown?

Unlikely to see the British saying "only in the UK" though. Using your nationality as an excuse for incompetence is not as popular there.

the_dark_side

yes but many in the UK feel that Gordon Brown should never have been in office because he is Scottish, they would have prefered an English national to be in number 10

Liam Byrne

the_dark_side wrote: »

yes but many in the UK feel that Gordon Brown should never have been in office because he is Scottish, they would have prefered an English national to be in number 10

Huh ?

gandalf

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

So no-one in government did anything wrong prior to Sept 2008? No-one stoked up a housing boom?, No-one gave tax breaks to developers?, No-one let the public finances run out of control?

This is a stitch up by Cowen, Lenihan and FF, they know if anyone looked into their record closely that they would be found out for the bunch of incompetent crooks that they are.

Closely!! You could view their record from outer space and still see it for what it was. Designed to feather their nests and the nest of their sponsors at the expense of the rest of us.

Based on their previous history there is no way Fianna Fail will do the honourable thing.

The Greens won't bring them down as they know they are finished at the next general election and if they did people will question why they didn't pull the plug earlier.

The independents well just take a look at who they are and their track record and you know there is a snowballs chance in hell of them doing anything in the interest of the country.

the_dark_side

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Huh ?

I was just replying to T Runner on the point he was making about incompitance vs nationality.... I was making the point that the English felt that Gordon Brown's percieved incompitance, was partly due to the fact that he is Scottish... sorry, its a bit off topic

BlaasForRafa

gandalf wrote: »

Closely!! You could view their record from outer space and still see it for what it was. Designed to feather their nests and the nest of their sponsors at the expense of the rest of us.

Based on their previous history there is no way Fianna Fail will do the honourable thing.

The Greens won't bring them down as they know they are finished at the next general election and if they did people will question why they didn't pull the plug earlier.

The independents well just take a look at who they are and their track record and you know there is a snowballs chance in hell of them doing anything in the interest of the country.

Well Lowry is dodgy as hell and Healy-Rae is one of the most despicable "in it for the money" politicians and of course another crook Beverley Cooper-Flynn (and what does it say about this country that they would be elected at all?)

I have no great confidence in FG or Labour but there is no way that they could be as crooked and/or incompetent as the current lot.

Liam Byrne

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I have no great confidence in FG or Labour but there is no way that they could be as crooked and/or incompetent as the current lot.

My sentiments exactly!

Lowry is no longer in FG, therefore they have shown that they at least object some bit to corruption.

But refusing point-blank to discuss the most important report in the recent history of the state ?

Sickening!

Scofflaw

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Firstly, there's nothing the report that I wouldn't have copped already, and I'm no economist.

Secondly, Cowen obviously read a completely different report, because he made it sound like the report endorsed everything he did.

Thirdly, if nothing else, this will stop FF TDs coming on TV and lying through their teeth that this had anything to do with the global crisis or Lehman Bros.

Will it stop people claiming it's all the fault of the euro, I wonder?

amused,
Scofflaw

T runner

the_dark_side wrote: »

I was just replying to T Runner on the point he was making about incompitance vs nationality.... I was making the point that the English felt that Gordon Brown's percieved incompitance, was partly due to the fact that he is Scottish... sorry, its a bit off topic

The mind boggles...

Permabear

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zootroid

Just saw on the news Mary Harney saying it wasn't a failure of the regulatory system (as it was noted on the news she was part of the government that had set it up). If it wasn't a fault of the regulatory system itself, then it was the fault of the people within the regulatory system. But yet the regulator got a golden handshake.

The blame game goes on, nobody accepts responsibility, and everybody passes the buck. What a shameful government we have.