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Gormley opposes low-tax economy

  • 09-06-2010 01:45PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭


    This post has been deleted.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    comparing Ireland to Germany, France and Scandinavian countries :confused:

    Talk about delusions and aspirations of grandeur

    someone quickly remind him that if it wasn't for the low corpo tax, we would still be a backwater on the arse side of Europe

    i suppose thats where Gormley and his green fundamentalists want Ireland to end-up, right back at digging turf (oh wait scrap that :D)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,860 ✭✭✭✭inforfun


    Sure I felt so much better when working in Holland and knew that after 13.30 I actually started to collect pay for my work. Everything from 09.00 till 13.30 ended up in the pockets of the minister of finances.

    Typical leftwing thinking, tax the **** out of the few people who still work in order to give hand outs like Santa Claus on speed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    I presume it is his reply to Hungarians, who introduced flat tax yesterday
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6571UY20100608


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭George Orwell 1982


    No matter what way you look at it taxes will have to go up if this country is to pay off its debts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    I presume it is his reply to Hungarians, who introduced flat tax yesterday
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6571UY20100608

    wow thanks, I missed that in the news
    Orban said he would enact a flat 16 percent income tax over two years, effectively cutting the rate

    time to move to Hungary me thinks :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Gormley has delusions of grandeur.

    The German and French economies are far far bigger than our humble 4.1m
    population holding.

    They're also situated slap bang in the middle of a +300m land mass.
    they're not a little bitty island on the western seaboard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,903 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    hinault wrote: »
    Gormley has delusions of grandeur.

    The German and French economies are far far bigger than our humble 4.1m
    population holding.

    They're also situated slap bang in the middle of a +300m land mass.
    they're not a little bitty island on the western seaboard.

    He loves Germany though, thats why he is so much in favour of systems like theirs......but why he cannot see the underlying issues with this nation trying to be like them is incredible


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    Your only beginning to wonder, this goverment dont have the slightest clue as to what they are doing....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    This is just another part of the big problem here. I'm not going to use the live-line slogan and say Michael O'Leary should run our finances but I think matters of money should not be in the hands of people who only got into power by promising to fix pot-holes and mend fences.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭invinciblePRSTV


    Lol it might upset the ever precious Austrian/Chicago school fanboys on here but high taxation is here to stay. We've tried Boston and look how that turned out...
    This post has been deleted.

    Most of the main players in the Banking & Political spheres who bankrupted this country and internationally were people who had a background in economics or received advice from those who had.

    In fact this was the main problem, 'small government' fanboys who worshipped at the altar of a 'free' market and citing ideologically blinkered economists like your Hayeks & Friedmans who in turn ripped apart the regulatory system over the decades, in turn this took its toll and now we live with the consequences.

    In short you reap what you sow and we are now all paying for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Lol it might upset the ever precious Austrian/Chicago school fanboys on here but high taxation is here to stay. We've tried Boston and look how that turned out...



    Most of the main players in the Banking & Political spheres who bankrupted this country and internationally were people who had a background in economics or received advice from those who had.


    name one minister with an economics degree :confused:

    In fact this was the main problem, 'small government' fanboys who worshipped at the altar of a 'free' market and citing ideologically blinkered economists like your Hayeks & Friedmans who in turn ripped apart the regulatory system over the decades, in turn this took its toll and now we live with the consequences.

    In short you reap what you sow and we are now all paying for it.

    If we followed Hayek

    the the banking **** would not have been socialized on the people of the country

    and the people responsible paid dearly for their failures and gambles and sort out their own mess


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭Count Dooku


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    wow thanks, I missed that in the news
    Can you imagine PRAVDA RTE headline that Hungary decided to reduce taxes, cut public pay and no PS strikes followed after that announcement?

    In fact this was the main problem, 'small government' fanboys who worshipped at the altar of a 'free' market and citing ideologically blinkered economists like your Hayeks & Friedmans who in turn ripped apart the regulatory system over the decades, in turn this took its toll and now we live with the consequences.
    Their bigger mistake that they decided to combine free market with socialists spending.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    The difference between Germany, Sweden or France and Ireland is that, far more than we do, they manage to spend the money they take off of their citizens in a fashion that provides good value for money.

    I don't trust our government to spend the money it does get off of me wisely. I'm against a high tax, big government country in general, but if they must have such a thing, I'd want a state that works, not one that can't spend most of its budget (health, education and social welfare) without huge questionmarks over the effectiveness of that spending... And that's before we get into general waste, white elephant projects and so forth.

    If Ireland was run like Germany, we could likely have better services and tax cuts once the waste is discounted... Let's deal with that before we jack up the taxes to, essentially, make up for and increase the waste.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    This post has been deleted.

    that would be ultimate nightmare of fianna fail/gombeen + green/lunatics , a country that works ,a public service that works heaven forbid


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭eoinbn


    The debate over a low or high tax economy is over. Taxes will increase rapidly over the next few years but it won't be to improve services it will be to pay off our debt and to maintain our very average public services.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 228 ✭✭paraletic


    This post has been deleted.

    Ambulance driver?:confused:

    sorry but i'm a paramedic, not an ambulance driver.

    the 'finnish' issue has been discussed on previous threads, as has our wages.

    how junior is this junior consultant, and is the 'ambulance driver' actually an Advanced Paramedic, with a HDip from UCD,
    to even apply to train as an advanced paramedic you now need at least two years as a student paramedic, and at least 3 years qualified (and a Diploma from UCD or the royal college of surgeons), then if you are selected for training, you must complete 2 years (including internship) to qualify. so these 'ambulance drivers' are VERY experienced and VERY qualified.

    .... so, how junior was the finnish consultant?

    anybody can pick and choose facts to strengthen an argument, but it doesn't mean those 'facts' are in context!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭Welease


    paraletic wrote: »
    so these 'ambulance drivers' are VERY experienced and VERY qualified.

    And as per the previous thread.. VERY overpaid in comparison to their European counterparts.. (was it ~20% more than the UK on salary alone (not counting pension)?);)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    paraletic wrote: »
    Ambulance driver?:confused:

    sorry but i'm a paramedic, not an ambulance driver.

    the 'finnish' issue has been discussed on previous threads, as has our wages.

    how junior is this junior consultant, and is the 'ambulance driver' actually an Advanced Paramedic, with a HDip from UCD,
    to even apply to train as an advanced paramedic you now need at least two years as a student paramedic, and at least 3 years qualified (and a Diploma from UCD or the royal college of surgeons), then if you are selected for training, you must complete 2 years (including internship) to qualify. so these 'ambulance drivers' are VERY experienced and VERY qualified.

    .... so, how junior was the finnish consultant?

    anybody can pick and choose facts to strengthen an argument, but it doesn't mean those 'facts' are in context!

    agh i understand now , our ambulance drivers are really consultants ,that explains it , so really they are totally underpaid . we must do something quickly or they will all be resigning and going to countrys that pay them properly !!!!!!!!!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Lads, let's leave the wages out of this debate about high or low taxes.

    Eoinbn hit the nail on the head. I'd like to see anyone who disagrees with the general notion that we waste tonnes of our public money on waste before we get to paying off debts.

    I'd love to see a detailed report on how much over the past decade. I'd bet we could have wasted a full years budget at the very least in that time... A year we could have all had off tax!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    I wonder what level the tax comes in at- would it be on all income so everyone pays income tax or would you have a large tax free base income like here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    This post has been deleted.

    The high taxes in the 80's went to pay the interest on the national debt - it literally took all of the entire PAYE tax income to service it at one stage if I remember correctly.

    As such the comparasion with the Nordic countries isn't relevant. Plus, also they have this strange idea that public services paid for by public taxes should be run for the benefit of the public. And, they are prepared to be quite ruthless (for want of a better word) with anyone who tries to stop that from happening...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    Just on the Nordic countries, Finland has slipped back into recession, as has Sweden, and Norway has massive reserves of oil and gas. Denmark was the first European country to enter recession (described as being of "historic dimensions"). So no, high tax economies aren't a great idea in the teeth of financial turmoil, especially not with the nimrods we have in power. If we cut expenditure to 2004 levels we'd be breaking even right about now, its quite doable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    Amhran Nua wrote: »
    Just on the Nordic countries, Finland has slipped back into recession, as has Sweden, and Norway has massive reserves of oil and gas. Denmark was the first European country to enter recession (described as being of "historic dimensions"). So no, high tax economies aren't a great idea in the teeth of financial turmoil, especially not with the nimrods we have in power. If we cut expenditure to 2004 levels we'd be breaking even right about now, its quite doable.

    Very true about them but our "low tax" model didn't save us from recession though. I'd say that whatever about how much you tax, your spending has to actually match it. Wanting to have Dubai levels of income taxes and Nordic levels of public services while treating vested interests with kid gloves just doesn't work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    View wrote: »
    Wanting to have Dubai levels of income taxes and Nordic levels of public services while treating vested interests with kid gloves just doesn't work.
    Thats not the point - expenditure went through the roof over the last ten years, while service levels didn't. Cutting back to a level we can afford makes a lot more sense than trying to prop up the whole affair via higher taxes and crippling the real economy (DIFFERENT FROM the revenue coffers) in the process.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 290 ✭✭kuntboy


    Democracy has failed in Ireland. We need Singapore-style benign dictatorship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭Bits_n_Bobs


    We have not had 'low tax' in Ireland over the last few years. We had a tax take that was hugely supplemented from the property boom rather than the 'old reliables' such as income tax.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,583 ✭✭✭✭cson


    In terms of taxes, certainly one area I feel that needs to be urgently looked at is the streaming of revenue from specific taxes. Remember that any Motor Insurance products [indeed any insurance products?] you purchase will have an inclusive tax as a result of the collapse of PMPA. That was over two decades ago yet the tax abides; where did revenue from this tax go? Who knows. Properly managed; it would have gone into it's own profit centre for want of a better word and it could have been exercised over the past 20 years which would have come in handy for a shock like the Quinn Group saga. But no, it's likely been ****ed away on election promises.


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