Are Monaghan Genuine All Ireland Contenders?

Pighead

I think they are.

Their team are without doubt one of the fittest in the country and they have been improving each and every year since Seamus McEnaney took over. They have been pretty unlucky with the draw over the past few years, running into Kerry in 07 and 08 (and running them very close in both games) and having to go to Celtic Park last year in the first round in Ulster.

This year they have maintained their Division 1 status at the expense of Derry and Tyrone and they showed against Armagh that they are a very fast strong and skilful team. I know Armagh had a man sent off and this made Monaghans job a lot easier but the game was already up for O Rourkes men at that stage as Monaghan had totally taken control of the match.

Beating a poor Armagh side isn't the reason I see Monaghan as genuine All Ireland contenders. I've been watching them closely the last few years and I really like the team at the moment. McManus has come on leaps and bounds and has really stepped it up this year. Hanratty also has become more consistent and more calm and aware when in goalscoring situations. Tommy Freeman is and has been for a long time now a truly class act while in Paul Finlay they possess one of the finest ball strikers in the country. They've got Clerkin, Mone and McQuaid to do the tough dirty work. Rory Woods didn't have his best game against Armagh but he is a very good player and is not afraid to get stuck in either. Kinda reminds me of Rooney actually!

Finally and perhaps crucially they have a very strong panel. Against Armagh Monaghan got something like 4 yellow cards (3 of them very harsh) in the opening five or so minutes. McEnaney was obviously afraid of getting a man sent off and replaced three of the men on yellows immediately. The replacements slotted in perfectly and made no difference to the Monaghan team. McEnaney obviously has great trust in his whole panel (Well except maybe his sub goalie!) and isn't afraid to change things around if needs be.

Monaghan have the best number two in the country in Paul Grimley (see how poor Kildare have been without him this season. Grimley in my opinion was the brains of that operation). Grimley would walk into the managers position in most counties in Ireland and it was a great coup for McEnaney to get him on board. Armagh must be kicking themselves now having passed up teh opportunity to give him the top job this season.

Anyway, I think this is a really battle hardened Monaghan team and the experiences since 07 will hold them in good stead as they aim to reach the promised land of Croke Park in September. The very least this team deserves is an Ulster Championship and I'm fairly confident they can manage it.

Bluetonic

Wait until the play someone of substance which Armagh are not. I wasn't too impressed with them in the national league although obviously it's hard to compare the two.

Had they not got the goal in the first 10 minutes against Armagh it would most likely have been a different story as they were all over the place.

megadodge

Well, they have been there or thereabouts in the last few years and have to do something pretty soon before they are past their physical peak.

I certainly think they're capable of beating the Cavan/Fermanagh winner, which puts them into an Ulster Final. It's probably Tyrone there and that's no easy task, but if there's a team physical enough and experienced enough to beat Tyrone in Ulster it's Monaghan and now that McManus is finally living up to his potential and as you said Hanaratty is calming down a small bit allied to the two class acts in Freeman and Finlay, they are a side that nobody could really fancy taking on.

Would enjoy seeing them go on an extended run.

Pighead

Bluetonic wrote: »

Wait until the play someone of substance which Armagh are not. I wasn't too impressed with them in the national league although obviously it's hard to compare the two.

Had they not got the goal in the first 10 minutes against Armagh it would most likely have been a different story as they were all over the place.

I actually thought they had a pretty good league campaign considering they were favourites to be relegated and had to face 4 out of 7 of their matches away.
Thought the displays against Tyrone, Derry, Cork and Mayo were good. Only lost by a point to Cork and lost by a goal to Mayo having played a lot of teh game with 14 men.
They were beaten fair and square by Dublin, Kerry and Galway but as I said McEnaney blooded a lot of new players in these games and they done well to secure Div 1 status in my opinion.

As for the goal changing the match last Sunday I'd have to disagree. I think the Monaghan managements decision to bring back JP Mone to mark Steven McDonnell was the key to them getting back into the game. McDonnell started off very brightly but once Mone was sent back to sort him out he barely got a sniff for the rest of the game.

GymJim

It's very hard to know how good Monaghan really are tbf. Once we see them against someone a bit better than a poor 14 man Armagh team it'll be a bit easier to figure out where they're at.

I do think they've improved since last year, especially with some other forwards taking some of the scoring burden from Tommy Freeman, but it really is too early to tell.

toiletduck

Are Monaghan Genuine All Ireland Contenders?

Not yet. Was impressed with them over the league and fancy them for Ulster.

Pighead

toiletduck wrote: »

Not yet. Was impressed with them over the league and fancy them for Ulster.

Which would lead me to believe that you don't think Tyrone are genuine All Ireland contenders this year?

Shane10

no i def dont think there all-ireland contenders. think tyrone will take ulster. they do have one of the finest footballers in ireland in paul finlay though.

toiletduck

Pighead wrote: »

Which would lead me to believe that you don't think Tyrone are genuine All Ireland contenders this year?

Maybe a 'caravan tour' of Ireland could hone them :pac: But seriously, no I don't think they have the same sparkle as other years.

aidan24326

Monaghan should reach the Ulster final now anyway, being on the easier side of the draw (in theory anyway).

They've been knocking around for a few years now with this team and really need to win an Ulster title at the very least. As for an All-Ireland, that's a tall order. It's not out of the question but realistically it's hard to see it. They wouldn't want to get too carried away with hammering an Armagh team who gave one of their limpest performances for many years.

As for Tyrone, I don't think they'll win another All-Ireland with this team (the one that's been backboned for so long by Gormley, Jordan, Dooher, O'Neill etc.) Those players have 3 All-Ireland medals already and it would be asking alot for them to go and win another. Down could well take them the next day.

Stinicker

Monaghan will win the Ulster title and imo opinion are now the third best team behind Cork and Kerry. They ran Kerry very close in both 2007 and 2008 with Kerry only barely scraping past them on both occasions. Also in Killarney this year they met in the National League and I tipped Monaghan to go further.

I tipped Monaghan here and I consider them to be a dark horse to upset Tyrone and with the way both Kerry and Cork are now playing neither of them will win an All-Ireland and this year will see contenders stepping up to the mark and Monaghan I think are about to become the new kids on the block.

teednab-el

They wouldnt be good enough to beat Kerry Cork and Tyrone so no I dont think they are genuine All Ireland Contenders.

dxhound2005

I'm surprised no one mentioned the row in the camp. There are rumours it was very serious, and even what made the papers is bad enough.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/manager-defends-hughes-role-as-rumous-swirl-around-casement-2210343.html

I have a feeling it may come back to haunt them. And the way results are going this year (not just in Ulster) I wouldn't be surprised to see Down beat Tyrone and if it's Cavan v Monaghan (not writing off Fermanagh) the whole local rivalry thing will come into play as well.

flahavaj

I don't think they're AI contenders. I don't think they're better than they were 2-3 years ago tbh. The sending off in teh Armagh game ruined it as a contest and while they played very well, I wouldn't read too much into it. They might win Ulster this year and they deserve it for their efforts over the years.

But put them out in Croke park against an experienced Kery team or an exuberant Cork team and its a whole new ball game.

Pighead

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I'm surprised no one mentioned the row in the camp. There are rumours it was very serious, and even what made the papers is bad enough.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/manager-defends-hughes-role-as-rumous-swirl-around-casement-2210343.html

I have a feeling it may come back to haunt them. And the way results are going this year (not just in Ulster) I wouldn't be surprised to see Down beat Tyrone and if it's Cavan v Monaghan (not writing off Fermanagh) the whole local rivalry thing will come into play as well.

What's left to mention about the row? It's over. McEnaney made a tough call and he was vindicated by the result.

If Monaghan had of beaten Armagh the row may have escalated and the Banty may have gotten the cold shoulder from a few players but as he said himself he done what he thought was best for Monaghan football. Finlay said after the game that he understood McEnaney's decision. Not sure how you think this will come back and haunt them?

flahavaj wrote: »

I don't think they're AI contenders. I don't think they're better than they were 2-3 years ago tbh.

I'd strongly disagree with that. They're a much more solid outfit now than they were 2-3 years ago. McManus, Hughes, Hanratty and Corey are much better players now than what they were 3 years ago.

Also they have a much stronger panel now and crucially this team have been there and done it with regards to playing the big boys in the All Ireland. Those two matches against Kerry in 07 and 08 will still be fresh in the minds of a lot of these players and the fact they came so close to beating them will take away the fear factor and make them believe they can win

flahavaj wrote: »

The sending off in teh Armagh game ruined it as a contest and while they played very well, I wouldn't read too much into it. They might win Ulster this year and they deserve it for their efforts over the years.

But put them out in Croke park against an experienced Kery team or an exuberant Cork team and its a whole new ball game.

But thats the thing, they've already played against Kerry at Croke Park in 07 and they were extremely unfortunate not to come away with a victory. They lost by a point that day and many people thought the referee got Kerry out of jail that day. They also played Kerry in 08 and lost by just a goal. I know that's all in the past but plenty of todays team were involved in 08 and 07 and know they have nothing to fear from a Kerry side who if anything have regressed slightly since those two games.

flahavaj

Pighead wrote: »

But thats the thing, they've already played against Kerry at Croke Park in 07 and they were extremely unfortunate not to come away with a victory. They lost by a point that day and many people thought the referee got Kerry out of jail that day. They also played Kerry in 08 and lost by just a goal. I know that's all in the past but plenty of todays team were involved in 08 and 07 and know they have nothing to fear from a Kerry side who if anything have regressed slightly since those two games.

I was at both Kerry matches and Monaghan lost on both days because they lacked the belief in themselves to finish the game off. They missed crucial wides that they really should have put over at a time when it would have probably killed Kerry off and worse still they sat back and invited Kerry onto them, allowing them into the match. When it came to the crunch, they didn't finish the game out and the likes of Kerry have the cutneness in abundance to capitalise on that.

The big question is whether Monaghan have learned their lesson and we'll find out when they get to Croker again in a few weeks' time. If I was to have a bet on it, if there was a couple of points in it with ten minutes to go in a All Ireland semi final, my money would be on Kerry every time. (Then again Pighead is well aware of the sh*ttiness of my predictions.:pac:) I'd love to see Monaghan make the big breakthrough, there is much to admire about them and I love to see a county that has had limited success compete on the bigger stage. But in the white heat of championship, against the experience of a Cork or Kerry I still think they're lacking.

Pighead

flahavaj wrote: »

I was at both Kerry matches and Monaghan lost on both days because they lacked the belief in themselves to finish the game off. They missed crucial wides that they really should have put over at a time when it would have probably killed Kerry off and worse still they sat back and invited Kerry onto them, allowing them into the match. When it came to the crunch, they didn't finish the game out and the likes of Kerry have the cutneness in abundance to capitalise on that.

The big question is whether Monaghan have learned their lesson and we'll find out when they get to Croker again in a few weeks' time. If I was to have a bet on it, if there was a couple of points in it with ten minutes to go in a All Ireland semi final, my money would be on Kerry every time. (Then again Pighead is well aware of the sh*ttiness of my predictions.:pac:) I'd love to see Monaghan make the big breakthrough, there is much to admire about them and I love to see a county that has had limited success compete on the bigger stage. But in the white heat of championship, against the experience of a Cork or Kerry I still think they're lacking.

Yeah that's fair enough alright flahavaj. It's yet to be seen if Monaghan can close out a match against the big boys. Personally I think they're mature enough and battle hardened enough to do it but as you say, we will find out soon. I was at the Monaghan-Kerry matches as well and I'd agree with you that they seemed to lack teh belief in 08 to finish them off. 07 was different though. I think that was genuinely unlucky.

In 08 Ciaran Hanratty had a glorious chance to score a goal for Monaghan with ten minutes to go which would have swept Monaghan into the lead during a period were they were dominating the game. Hanratty missed, Monaghans heads dropped and Kerry done what Kerry do and closed the game out.

Hanratty is a much better player now and his awareness is a hundred times better. If given the same chance again I think he would score that goal or maybe do what he should have done that day and play a simple ball across the goal for his teammate to tap in. Hanratty is a great example of how Monaghan have improved in the last two or three years. The difference between the raw young lad that played against Kerry in 08 and the man who played so well last Sunday is immense.

But as you say there is still a long way to go before we get down to the nitty gritty of the AI qualifiers. Winning Ulster is the aim for the moment.

(By the way I see Monaghans odds have dropped from 40/1 to 18/1 for the All Ireland since Sundays win)

Royal Seahawk

Kerry hadn't played in 7 weeks when they played Monaghan in 07. You could tell they were lacking match practice and were way off the pace that day. Yet they got the result.
Monaghan might do well this year because of the appointment of Paul Grimley as assistant coach. He seemed to be the brains behind McGeeney's Kildare project and he will be a big asset to Seamus McEnaney, who displays a lot of passion but little else.

veelis

I have to agree with you on Hanratty. I have been watching Monaghan over a number of years. I think he is very underrated still, is very important to the team to make space for other forwards, always shows for the ball and is now very hard to mark. I only wish Monaghan fans would get behind him more, not be so negative towards him at times and that other forwards on team who will remain nameless pass the ball to him more when he is in good positions

Mr. Incognito

They wouldnt be good enough to beat Kerry Cork and Tyrone so no I dont think they are genuine All Ireland Contenders.

QFT.

ShamoBuc

teednab-el wrote: »

They wouldnt be good enough to beat Kerry Cork and Tyrone so no I dont think they are genuine All Ireland Contenders.

QED

Gingy

It's still early days for Monaghan. Chances are that they will be in an Ulster Final, against Down/Tyrone and from there, who knows, should they win and get a handy draw in the quarters, they could find themselves sneaking through the rounds. The main objective for Monaghan at the moment has to be an Ulster title, it's been 22 long years for a football mad county and it's the one the supports will be eying first.

I have to admit that I'm a closet Monaghan fan, I have family from the Farney and over the last few years I went to most championship games, there were a few things that I noticed that have to be eradicated for Monaghan to succeed. As has already been alluded to, they bottled it against Kerry in 07, had them on the rack and couldn't finish them off, in 08 Kerry were ready for them and deserved to win that one. I know that the Monaghan camp have refused offers of a top sports psychologist a few years ago, before they lost to Fermanagh in the 1st round of 08. I don't know if they have changed their policy, but you'd think that after failing twice against Kerry, once especially when they should have won, that small things like a top psychologist would be vital.

Moving onto last year, up in Derry, it was clear from throw in that Derry wanted to beat up Monaghan and unfortunately, Monaghan got sucked into a boxing match and didn't have a plan b. Typical Ulster physicality has never been part of Monaghan football and they got roped into it, when they were the better team, who eventually lost. Banty was lost on the sideline, he didn't have a clue what to do.

Moving onto this year, Grimley is a good acquisition and he's clearly bringing something new and lots of experience to the setup. They had a decent league campaign. Considering Monaghan had 4 away games, lost their opening home match to Cork and have a third of the population of the rest of the counties in the division, they did exceptionally well to avoid relegation. I'm half way around the world at the moment and didn't see the match on Sunday, but talking to home and reading reports, things are looking good. Armagh had a good league and decent win against Derry and in fairness to Monaghan they gave them a good hammering.

I possibly went off in a tangent there, but basically what I'm saying is that Monaghan could be serious contenders if they changed a few things, their difficulty to close off tight Championship games is the main flaw that I see which could hamper them, I'm never confident when they're a few down coming to the end of a game, this comes back to my complaints about the lack of psychological help. And not being brought down to their oppositions level, just play their own game. (God I've never written such a long entry on this) Anyway, I'll be back for the semi-finals and with a bit of luck, Monaghan will be there (Along with Dublin of course...), and they can be guaranteed one extra fan cheering them on over here.

saywhatyousee

no. it would be the shock of the century in my eyes

The_Kew_Tour

They have chance get semi final, thats as far as they go imho.

jethro081

Haven't posted in here for a while and this thread has made me smile, as the suggestion of Monaghan being serious contenders for Ulster even would have been laughable as little as four years ago to everyone except us most optimistic of Monaghan fans.

THis team has been on the road for the last four years and the development in them is clear, We now have a team in Monaghan who needs fear no one.

The biggest difference with this current incarnation of the Monaghan team and previous ones is the fact that there now exists a reasonable level of strength in depth in this panel. The very fact that Stephen Gollogly, who has been a good player for us over the last few years was quickly replaced by Rory Woods in the early stages of the game against Armagh is demonstrative of this, as is the fact that Dessie Mone was similarly replaced by Dermot Mcardle. THe ability to replace first team players with reserves of significant quality is one that monaghan have not been able to avail of in recent years. This, as well as the inexperience of the team is what cost us against KErry in 07 imho, as Kerry brought on Brian Sheehan who basically won them the game while monaghan brought on players who were significantly worse than the men they were replacing.

This development makes me confident of our chances to win Ulster. I still do not believe it makes Monaghan favourites, That mantle will remain with Tyrone until someone beats them, But i do believe we need fear no one in Ulster.

As regards the All Ireland series, i think thats a different story altogether. It still remains to be seen if Monaghan can put together a string of top quality performances in Croke Park. Its something this team has never gotten a chance to do as they met Kerry in 07 and 08 losing both times. Whether or not Monaghan can win what would be four games of gruelling intensity in a row, (Ulster final, AI Qf, Sf and final) is something i really dont know.

What i will say is that Monaghan are in a better position than i have ever seen them before, and i would certainly not write our team out of the All Ireland race. With six scoring forwards, and a solid enough defence i feel we are now in the upper end of the second tier of teams, and can only be placed behind Cork Kerry and Tyrone without the rating being arguable.

That being said, THe Anglo Celt is the first and foremost priority, and i seriously doubt anyone in the Monaghan camp will be looking beyond it. An ulster title, (The first since the year i was born :mad: ) would leave me and the vast majority of Monaghan people ecstatic. Anything after that would be a bonus and so i would say that in order to seriously class Monaghan as All Ireland contenders we will have to wait to see how we do in the remainder of Ulster, as consistency is still an issue of which we cannot be certain.


(apologies for the rambling that this post contained, I get very excited when talking about Monaghan Football just now )

Cormac2791

This thread is possibly the one that has made me smile the most!

As an avid follower of Monaghan football I have to say "here here." Undoubtably the squad has improved on previous years by miles.

However, I would disagree with the initial poster on Ciaran Hanratty. IN MY OPINION, the only good game he's had was the Mon v Down game in 07, his first game. And yes, I know he did set up a crucial goal on Sunday, but he's not a team player generally. He plays for himself, goes on awkward, unusual runs and subsequently looses possession.

Personally, I believe Rory Woods would be a better candidate for the job.

To answer the initial question, I really really do hope we get an Ulster title, it's long overdue. Can't see us winning sam though. The squad just aren't experienced enough to deal with the latter stages of the championship..

aDeener

there are only 2 real contenders for the all-ireland imo - cork and kerry. monaghan are a decent side and i believe they will win ulster but i think they missed the boat them couple of times when they had kerry on the ropes. had they defeated them then, i wouldnt be surprised if they went on and lifted sam.

i think they have some really good footballers that would make any team in the country - finlay, freeman in particular but the behaviour of the manager last week with regards the sub keeper has left me hoping he never sees success tbh.

cruiserweight

Well Fermanagh up next for Monaghan

Pighead

aDeener wrote: »

there are only 2 real contenders for the all-ireland imo - cork and kerry. monaghan are a decent side and i believe they will win ulster but i think they missed the boat them couple of times when they had kerry on the ropes. had they defeated them then, i wouldnt be surprised if they went on and lifted sam.

i think they have some really good footballers that would make any team in the country - finlay, freeman in particular but the behaviour of the manager last week with regards the sub keeper has left me hoping he never sees success tbh.

How have they "missed the boat"? If it was an ageing Monaghan team you may have a point but most of that team are under 30 and are in better shape than they were back in 07/08. Monaghan have improved as a team and without doubt have a much better squad now so to say they've "missed the boat" doesn't make much sense. Especially as I believe Kerry have regressed slightly since then.

Also your comment re McEnaney is very harsh. The man lives and breeds Monaghan football. Dropping the sub keeper was the hardest decision he's ever had to make in management. As he said himself he done it for the good of the team and Darren Hughes performance in goal fully vindicated his decision. The Banty has done a hell of a lot for Monaghan football (including giving jobs to some of the players) and he has turned them into one of the fittest teams in the country. To think of where they were before he took over, the man has done wonders. This is almost certainly his last year in the job and he without doubt deserves success for all he has done for Monaghan football.

Cormac2791

cruiserweight wrote: »

Well Fermanagh up next for Monaghan

Would have preferred cyawvvan tbh, Fermanagh have been a bit of a banana skin for monaghan of late

Cormac2791

Pighead wrote: »

How have they "missed the boat"? If it was an ageing Monaghan team you may have a point but most of that team are under 30 and are in better shape than they were back in 07/08. Monaghan have improved as a team and without doubt have a much better squad now so to say they've "missed the boat" doesn't make much sense. Especially as I believe Kerry have regressed slightly since then.

Also your comment re McEnaney is very harsh. The man lives and breeds Monaghan football. Dropping the sub keeper was the hardest decision he's ever had to make in management. As he said himself he done it for the good of the team and Darren Hughes performance in goal fully vindicated his decision. The Banty has done a hell of a lot for Monaghan football (including giving jobs to some of the players) and he has turned them into one of the fittest teams in the country. To think of where they were before he took over, the man has done wonders. This is almost certainly his last year in the job and he without doubt deserves success for all he has done for Monaghan football.

What I fear is, who'll take on the role next year, bantys top notch..

Pighead

cormacharraghy wrote: »

What I fear is, who'll take on the role next year, bantys top notch..

Paul Grimley is
the obvious one. hopefully Monaghan can hold on to him. I'd imagine he'll be in demand though come the seasons end.

Cormac2791

Pighead wrote: »

Paul Grimley is
the obvious one. hopefully Monaghan can hold on to him. I'd imagine he'll be in demand though come the seasons end.

No doubt Armagh will be looking for him again. Saying that, he said to BBC the jobs gone by him, so...

Flukey

Could it be said of Monaghan, similar to what has been said of Dublin, that while they have had some good performances in recent years, they still have to produce it against one of the big guns? Monaghan pushed Kerry close, but didn't win. That was certainly their best chance. They should reach the Ulster final, although Fermanagh will be re-energised after today's result, but it remains to be seen what happens after that. Even if Tyrone are past their best, they should still beat Down and Monaghan. It is off to the qualifiers for Monaghan then. There are going to be some good teams in it. On that, tomorrow night's draw will be interesting.

Cormac2791

Monaghan will definately be ready for Fermanagh this year though, in comparison to the past (2008 springs to mind).

Pighead

Still in shock over last weeks performance. Honestly thought they were destined for great things in 2010. This thread looks kinda silly now!

They're much better than what we saw last Sunday. Plenty of people are saying Tyrone didn't let them play and while there is doubtlessly an element of truth in that I'd be of the opinion that they just had a really bad day at the office. Elementary errors like Gary McQuaid not been able to kick a pass to a free man ten yards away wasn't down to Tyrone. Don't know if it was nerves or what but that wasn't Monaghan I seen last week.

Hopefully they can rid their minds of that horrible game and get back to the way they've been playing all year. Fancy them to beat Kildare tomorrow but the All Ireland Final seems like light years away after that Ulster final setback.

Magi11

I think Tyrone had 3 weeks to prepare for Monaghan and they did their homework well. Although we made a lot of unforced errors espeically early on. We also blithely kept the same tactics for the entire game because our management team do not have the ability to think on their feet. Look at Mickey Harte v Down, he had a look at what they were doing, made some positional switches and totally changed the game, there's no way that Banty or his overpaid cohorts would think of something like that.
I'm sick of saying this but after 40 mins last Sunday, we should have put Brendan McKenna full forward and let it in high to him and have Tommy and Conor feed off the breaks. A blind man could have seen that Tyrone were playing a packed defence and we don't have the strength to play through that. So, no Monaghan are not All Ireland contenders Tyrone, Kerry and Cork in that order but that means there's a semi final spot up for grabs and that would be an achievement in it's self.

Pighead

Magi11 wrote: »

our management team do not have the ability to think on their feet. Look at Mickey Harte v Down, he had a look at what they were doing, made some positional switches and totally changed the game, there's no way that Banty or his overpaid cohorts would think of something like that.
I'm sick of saying this but after 40 mins last Sunday, we should have put Brendan McKenna full forward and let it in high to him and have Tommy and Conor feed off the breaks.

I appreciate what your saying re a big man up front but Brendan McKenna?Really? I think he's a very poor player.very predictable and easy to defend against. Also think you're doing banty and grimley a diservice. They showed against Armagh that they were capable of making game winning switches when they nullified mcdonnell's influence on the game by bringing JP Mone back to sort him out. look at how big Joe and to a lesser extent McGeeney have struggled without Grimley by their sides.

Magi11

I wouldn't be McKenna's biggest fan but I can't think of anyone else on the panel who has a bit of height and strength. The Armagh thing was just a switch, I'm talking about a fundamental change in tactics which our management team haven't the ability to do. It's the difference between good management and great management. In 6 years Banty changed tactics once, ironically it was in the last ulster final when he put Vinny full forward out of desperation because he was on a yellow at full back. It worked and nearly won us the game because Tyrone weren't expecting it. Same should have happened last Sunday.

smashey

Pighead wrote: »

They're much better than what we saw last Sunday. Plenty of people are saying Tyrone didn't let them play and while there is doubtlessly an element of truth in that I'd be of the opinion that they just had a really bad day at the office. Elementary errors like Gary McQuaid not been able to kick a pass to a free man ten yards away wasn't down to Tyrone. Don't know if it was nerves or what but that wasn't Monaghan I seen last week.

I have to agree with this Pighead as I really thought they could beat Tyrone. As you said, it was a bad day at the office but maybe having Kildare so soon afterwards will have focused their minds again and not let them dwell on last weekend's game. I fancy them to beat Kildare today as well but history doesn't favour beaten provincial finalists who play six days later.

rossie1977

there are only 3 potential all-ireland winners atm, kerry, tyrone and cork and even then i have my doubts regarding cork, they may be able to beat kerry and tyrone in the early rounds but i wouldn't be putting money on cork in an a-i final against either of the big two

the rest of us are playing for the scraps, sorry but its true

shrewdness

Magi11 wrote: »

I wouldn't be McKenna's biggest fan but I can't think of anyone else on the panel who has a bit of height and strength. The Armagh thing was just a switch, I'm talking about a fundamental change in tactics which our management team haven't the ability to do. It's the difference between good management and great management. In 6 years Banty changed tactics once, ironically it was in the last ulster final when he put Vinny full forward out of desperation because he was on a yellow at full back. It worked and nearly won us the game because Tyrone weren't expecting it. Same should have happened last Sunday.

It's not like it was a complete shot in the dark or because he was afraid of Corey getting a second yellow, he'd been playing full-forward for his club back then and doing quite well.

aDeener

rossie1977 wrote: »

there are only 3 potential all-ireland winners atm, kerry, tyrone and cork and even then i have my doubts regarding cork, they may be able to beat kerry and tyrone in the early rounds but i wouldn't be putting money on cork in an a-i final against either of the big two

the rest of us are playing for the scraps, sorry but its true

did you not see the demolition job cork did on tyrone last year?

agree cork may not have it for kerry but they are more than capable of beating tyrone.

Magi11

aDeener wrote: »

did you not see the demolition job cork did on tyrone last year?

agree cork may not have it for kerry but they are more than capable of beating tyrone.

Couldn't agree with this at all. Cork were lucky against Tyrone. Sean Cavanagh missing was a huge boost for Cork also they were lucky that the ref decided to use the rules of Netball when it comes to the tackle!! But the main problem for Cork is that they will do what they like in an All Ireland Semi Final but they don't have the forwards who will stand up and be counted in an All Ireland Final.

Magi11

It's weird. Last week I couldn't see us losing but got more and more pessimistic as the game grew closer and by throw in I had us getting bet. This week I couldn't see us winning and now I think we'll sneak it!

Magi11

Shane Duffy isn't playing after Banty announced he was fit!!!! I'm shocked! Not!

JonathanAnon

Jesus Kildare would be out of sight if Doyle had been kicking any way decently at all.. must have missed 8 reasonable point chance...

Clemon

Ruari Woods should have stayed in Supermacs today.

Magi11

Shane Duffy isn't playing after Banty announced he was fit!!!! I'm shocked! Not!

Pighead

Pighead wrote: »

I think they are.

Their team are without doubt one of the fittest in the country and they have been improving each and every year since Seamus McEnaney took over. They have been pretty unlucky with the draw over the past few years, running into Kerry in 07 and 08 (and running them very close in both games) and having to go to Celtic Park last year in the first round in Ulster.

This year they have maintained their Division 1 status at the expense of Derry and Tyrone and they showed against Armagh that they are a very fast strong and skilful team. I know Armagh had a man sent off and this made Monaghans job a lot easier but the game was already up for O Rourkes men at that stage as Monaghan had totally taken control of the match.

Beating a poor Armagh side isn't the reason I see Monaghan as genuine All Ireland contenders. I've been watching them closely the last few years and I really like the team at the moment. McManus has come on leaps and bounds and has really stepped it up this year. Hanratty also has become more consistent and more calm and aware when in goalscoring situations. Tommy Freeman is and has been for a long time now a truly class act while in Paul Finlay they possess one of the finest ball strikers in the country. They've got Clerkin, Mone and McQuaid to do the tough dirty work. Rory Woods didn't have his best game against Armagh but he is a very good player and is not afraid to get stuck in either. Kinda reminds me of Rooney actually!

Finally and perhaps crucially they have a very strong panel. Against Armagh Monaghan got something like 4 yellow cards (3 of them very harsh) in the opening five or so minutes. McEnaney was obviously afraid of getting a man sent off and replaced three of the men on yellows immediately. The replacements slotted in perfectly and made no difference to the Monaghan team. McEnaney obviously has great trust in his whole panel (Well except maybe his sub goalie!) and isn't afraid to change things around if needs be.

Monaghan have the best number two in the country in Paul Grimley (see how poor Kildare have been without him this season. Grimley in my opinion was the brains of that operation). Grimley would walk into the managers position in most counties in Ireland and it was a great coup for McEnaney to get him on board. Armagh must be kicking themselves now having passed up teh opportunity to give him the top job this season.

Anyway, I think this is a really battle hardened Monaghan team and the experiences since 07 will hold them in good stead as they aim to reach the promised land of Croke Park in September. The very least this team deserves is an Ulster Championship and I'm fairly confident they can manage it.

Royal Seahawk

Pighead wrote: »

And no one who has a clue about Gaelic Football is surprised I'm afraid.