Advice on builder/roofer issues

Gulliver

NOT looking for legal advice here, just general advice on a few issues.

The blocklayer has come back to me when the job was finished and said that as the lead trays for the roof joining a wall (which is to be stone-clad) took so much time, he has to charge extra. He also said I never mentioned these to him at pricing (why would I? I know feck-all about building)

We agreed a fixed price the build up to wallplate level. The lead trays are mentioned on the plan. Can he charge extra for this? He should have noticed that they are part of the plan.

The same guy also did the roof. When it came to putting on the steel, he came to me and said that I would have to hire a crane ,he has no equipment. Thought nothing of it as I wanted the job done, but plenty of people have said that he should have taken responsibility as he price for doing the whole roof.

He has caused major delays during the build, vastly overestimated materials, some of which now can't be returned (100mm insulation for example), left the place in a mess and brought in what can only be described as shaven apes to subcontract the slating and Velux installation. They damaged the frame of the very first Velux they put in, argued with me that a recessed Velux would leak and forgot two bits of flashing on the garage windows.

To make matters worse he has contract for the stone (all were agreed before we realised how much of a git he is), so I can't simply tell him to eff off.

The engineer was happy with the blockwork and the roof timbers, haven't spoken to him yet about slates and Velux.

In a nutshell, I thought a fixed price was just that - fixed. There was no mention of overruns or provision for extra work in the agreement. He also scoffed when I asked him for a list of work in writing. I don't think he deserves extra after his actions here, but as he's a local, things might get sticky if we fall out.


WWBD? (What would boardsies do?)

Buford T Justice

Local or not, get shot of him. There are plenty of builders looking for work these days, and you don't need cowboys on your job I'm guessing

I know of a good builder in Ballintrillick in Sligo if you are interested (Not me btw)

Just my opinion op

Gulliver

Fingers McGee wrote: »

Local or not, get shot of him. There are plenty of builders looking for work these days, and you don't need cowboys on your job I'm guessing

I know of a good builder in Ballintrillick in Sligo if you are interested (Not me btw)

Just my opinion op

Thanks, but the blockwork and roof are finished now. I wish I could get shot of him altogether, but I agreed to the stonework ages ago before I knew he was a gimp. He actually does nice work on stone, believe it or not!

Problem is he's an awful whinger and panic merchant. He'll phone saying he needs more insulation, NOW!!! There's a big panic waiting for delivery, then "ah.. now there's too much... sure they'll take it back"

The main issue is the roof, I should never have went with him for that.

RKQ

Gulliver wrote: »

The blocklayer has come back to me when the job was finished and said that as the lead trays for the roof joining a wall (which is to be stone-clad) took so much time, he has to charge extra. He also said I never mentioned these to him at pricing (why would I? I know feck-all about building)

Am I missing something?
This guy priced the blockwork, priced the roof and priced the stonework - the lead trays are on the drawings BUT he didn't price for them?

This guy is no fool, he had 3 chances to price the lead, he's built your walls so he's really familiar with your house.
Trust is important - if you loose it you can loose more than your word. Follow your gut...

Its not unusual for people to underquote but if its on the drawing or a Building Reg requirement, then the Builder / sub-contractor is supposed to know his job - accept responsibility.

No-ones perfect, even the best Builder can over-order but something doesn't smell right here. Like I said maybe I'm missing something?

Gulliver

RKQ wrote: »

Am I missing something?
This guy priced the blockwork, priced the roof and priced the stonework - the lead trays are on the drawings BUT he didn't price for them?

This guy is no fool, he had 3 chances to price the lead, he's built your walls so he's really familiar with your house.
Trust is important - if you loose it you can loose more than your word. Follow your gut...

Its not unusual for people to underquote but if its on the drawing or a Building Reg requirement, then the Builder / sub-contractor is supposed to know his job - accept responsibility.

No-ones perfect, even the best Builder can over-order but something doesn't smell right here. Like I said maybe I'm missing something?

No, you're correct. I went the direct labour route and he came out cheapest in the block, roof and stonework. I went and visited plenty of houses that he had done and people had good things to say about his work. The only negative they gave was that he has a reputation of leaving a big job on hold whilst doing another smaller one, but I thought I'd control that. I didn't - it took 6 months to get from subfloor to wallplate height. He left twice (sickness and family emergency) for a period of 6 weeks total. I believe he was away doing another job but have no proof except he took his tools offsite before he was "sick".

Anyway, the point of all that waffle above is that I thought I had done my homework on this guy. No-one mentioned over-ordering or extra pricing.

He'll send people to me for recommendations, but I can't fault his actual blockwork. If I mention the over-ordering, extra pricing, untidiness, disappearing acts and general panicing/whinging nature of the man, it could get nasty as he lives just down the road.

However, I am not happy with the slaters he brought and won't give a recommendation for roofwork. I've told him I wasn't happy with them and he just sort of laughed it off as me being picky.

I guess I just want to rant about him more than anything as I know there's nothing to be done now. He'll pester me for the money like he did with the job payments and I'll eventually give in just to stop the moaning.

Buford T Justice

Business and pleasure do not mix OP, and i'd say that this guy is counting on the fact that you are just down the road from him so he can take the piss as he is.

And seriously, he's been away doing other jobs, and he's had three times to price the lead and he's missed them? Somethings definitely not right with this fella.

Poor Uncle Tom

It seems as though he tried it on once with the crane hire and go away with it, he saved himself a nice bit there. He's trying it on again in the hopes that you will just pay it. Finally the stonework will be much harder and longer then he planned and you'll need to stump up for that too.

Time to take him one side and explain some simple pricing facts to him before he starts any stonework.

Gulliver

Thanks guys. I just wanted other people opinions on these issues.

Am I right in thinking that if you take on a job, say a roof, for a fixed price, then anything to do with the construction of said roof if shown on plans should be covered with no extras for hire of equipment?

Maybe I should charge him for the hire....

sydthebeat

CONTRACT, CONTRACT and CONTRACT.....

jesus.....

why do people, on the biggest spend of their lives, operate in such an ad hoc way. Does you mortgage institution work in the same manner giving you out the money???? no... so you shouldnt act the same when spending it.

a contract should be signed, based upon agreed documents.... namely construction drawings and specification and the contractors tender price.

any extras should be only accounted for after an instruction from the client which would contravene the original tender document. This extra should be costed up and presented on paper within a specified time of request (3 days should be enough) and if the price is agreeable its entered into the contract documents, to be accounted for in the next stage payment.

NO extras should occur if there is no request for change from the client.

€1500 would have gotten a construction specification, drawings and tender instructions drafted up... what did the crane cost you?

and no.. .fixed price does NOT mean fixed price.

a fixed price contract is actually extremely hard to manage, as there has to be allowances made to the contractor when something out of his control occurs.

when you have no contract, or contract administrator, the contractor can run roughshod all over you... as you can to him.....

this should be a warning to all "self builder" as to the dangers of a "direct labour" builds with no construction documents and no contract.

mickdw

I wouldnt haave any respect for a blocklayer who couldnt spot where lead trays would be required. Your guy was the blocklayer & the roofer so 100% should have been on the ball. Still, alot of this is of your own making. you should be tying down all these issues or have a professional do it for you. The fact that the lead work was shown on the drawings though really says that he is chancing his arm. Dont pay him extra & get rid for the stonework or at least ensure you are so far the right side of him payments wise that he cannot afford to not turn up.

Poor Uncle Tom

Aah Syd, where's your sense of adventure? It would be very boring if everyone had a contract....:D

As said above a Fixed Price Contract does not mean just one fixed price, unless it is a Fixed Price Contract for the entire job, from Green Field to handover of keys and alarm codes. Where there is crossover of works/items it is very difficult to have a Fixed Price Contract for different elements of any one job.

Example, if you are tying down contracts at the start of a Self Build job in order to get your final costings sorted out. Will you include the scaffolding hire with the plastering? If you get it as a seperate item can it be got early to cover the windows installation? can it be left in place to cover fascia, soffit and rainwater goods? etc., or would each Fixed Price Contract price for their own?

muffler

sydthebeat wrote: »

on the biggest spend of their lives

Wrong! Marrying a woman will always cost more and you are definitely tied to a contract