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Your protest at the next election

  • 05-06-2010 12:52PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭


    So you've decided to resist the urge to storm the Dail pitchfork & torches style and rather get your own back at the next election.

    Right then ...you're not going to vote for anyone remotely attached to the current governement, that bit is easy.

    Now it gets difficult ...who exactly are you going to vote for? The lads from the opposition haven't exactly filled you with confidence either. One of them wants to keep up our ridiculous public spending, the other ...well who knows if he stands for anything but hot air really.

    That leaves not voting at all ...but hang on ...that way you just quietly support hardcore governement voters, so not voting is out of the question.

    What to do then?
    Vote for the local whacko? Some obscure fringe party? You sure don't want to see them running the country, do you?
    Spoil your vote? Add an extra box saying "none of the above"?

    How exactly can you effect a radical change with your one miserly vote?

    Suggestions on the back of an envelope please ....


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Comments

  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,504 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    if your adament you want a complete change of goverment, It boils down to the follwing choices

    1. FG
    2. Labour
    3. SF

    Labour have gone into Power with FF before, SF wont get enough TD's Elected to form a goverment on their own, FG wont go in with SF or FF.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    peasant wrote: »
    Now it gets difficult ...who exactly are you going to vote for? The lads from the opposition haven't exactly filled you with confidence either. One of them wants to keep up our ridiculous public spending, the other ...well who knows if he stands for anything but hot air really.

    I think you are being a little unfair to both opposition parties but FG in particular. In opposition you will always be full of 'hot air' because you can't implement policy from that position, so what you are saying is they can talk the talk but can they walk the walk? I agree they need to be tested and so far I've liked what they have to say so they'll get my vote. And is calling them full of hot air the best criticism you have of there many policy documents?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    FG/FF are simply two cheeks of the one arse, its an overly dynastic system which is replicating in SF and Lab.

    Limiting options to the old parties is simply perpetuating a two party system that has failed.

    Labour have, sadly, become increasingly FG lite, and the speech by the SDLP leader about seeing a Spring back in their rightful place was insulting.

    There are newer options coming on stream, as well as several independents.

    The Greens in the Dail may be tainted by the current government, but that has a lot to do with the current party executive.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Will hopefully be standing myself under my own org.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,968 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    peasant wrote: »
    Spoil your vote? Add an extra box saying "none of the above"?

    Definitely not this.
    Make a choice and wait for the result.
    If you spoil your vote you're not changing anything at all.
    Realy, you lose any right to complain about the election result if you do this.

    Even if you don't like any party candidate at all there is bound to be an independent to vote for. They are a local and will be available so ask them questions on what matters to you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    Biggins wrote: »
    Will hopefully be standing myself under my own org.

    Ditto - good luck with it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 82 ✭✭Bevvie


    To be honest, I'll probably vote FG/Labour as they can't possibly do a worse job than the shower at the moment.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    I'll vote Tony O'Reilly, sure he actually runs the place:mad::mad::mad::mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    I'll decide by elimination. I won't vote SF, because I don't agree with their polices, or any party to the Left of them, for that matter. I don't trust levy-is-a-spending-cut Labour to be in a position where they will actually have control of the finances of this country. Assuming I'm not going to vote for the current government parties, that leaves me with Fine Gael.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    I'll decide by elimination. I won't vote SF, because I don't agree with their polices, or any party to the Left of them, for that matter. I don't trust levy-is-a-spending-cut Labour to be in a position where they will actually have control of the finances of this country. Assuming I'm not going to vote for the current government parties, that leaves me with Fine Gael.

    Its sad that we are told they are the only alternative


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    simonj wrote: »
    Its sad that we are told they are the only alternative

    is Amhran Nua running out of interest


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    simonj wrote: »
    Its sad that we are told they are the only alternative

    I haven't been told by anyone that they're the only alternative; I've examined the political landscape myself and come to that conclusion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,885 ✭✭✭PomBear


    if your adament you want a complete change of goverment, It boils down to the follwing choices

    1. FG
    2. Labour
    3. SF

    Labour have gone into Power with FF before, SF wont get enough TD's Elected to form a goverment on their own, FG wont go in with SF or FF.

    I think you'll find it's the other way around


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    I tend to agree with the fella from Donegal and it leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth to say that FF is probably the best option. I despise what they have done to the country, but look at the other parties. It seems FG are saying what they believe the electorate wants to hear, and Enda Kenny ........ well, he's another thread topic altogether.

    Labour is not in touch with reality and would be a very dangerous coalition with FG. And even though I was a SF supporter in my younger days, they have no serious economic solutions to the country's fiscal problems.

    FF are making the right decisions now. I believe that the Wall Street Journal said during the week that FF are doing the right things (i.e. cutting the dependency on the welfare state, not cowering to the powerful unions that are running the country etc.) because they have nothing to lose at this stage.

    Spit, spit ................. that bitter taste is my mouth is the distasteful feeling of wanting to keep FF in power, in order to facilitate the recovery. But I also believe that a number of them should be in jail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    This post has been deleted.

    I can't believe I'm reading this :eek:

    The only thing FF has shown themselves willing to do is line their and their friends/allies pockets.

    The rest is stark reality catching up with them ...not policy, never mind "willingness".
    kivaro wrote:
    FF are making the right decisions now
    FF making decisions? That would be news to me.
    They are doing (half-heartedly) what needs to be done ...in small measures, without any political will and about two years too late.

    They are doing it because "the markets" / EU / IMF and the sheer fact that Ireland is broke leaves them no other choice.

    Any other party in governement would have to do the same, regardless of what they promise pre-election.

    Which reflects very poorly on the current "performance" of the opposition. Nobody seems to be willing to acknowledge the situation, ready to roll up the country's sleeves and get us out of this mess as quickly as possible ...because they all know they are going to meet large resistance from all sorts of vested interests.

    Which brings me back to my initial question: what can you do to effect REAL change? Because in my mind voting in FG isn't change ...it's just the same sh*t with different faces.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,639 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    I'll be writing "Fuck the lotta you" on my ballot card :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    I, for one, have not yet abandoned the pitchforks and pikes option and any mention of the words ivor or callelly serve to rekindle the flame.
    This portrayal of FF as the least worst option is a joke. Stalin, IMO, is a better option than FF, even though they have a lot in common.
    I'm not a party political follower, I am the eternal floating voter, though I'm unlikely to float my vote in the direction of SF, so that realistically leaves FG and Labour. I think it's highly likely that these will form the next government and hopefully, though I'm not betting on it, politicians will have been chastened enough to bring about real checks and balances to the excesses of the Dáil. If not I'm afraid it just might come down to the pitchforks and pikes.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 270 ✭✭GarlicBread


    I will be voting labour + rest of left.

    FF and FG have had almost a century to make this country a nice place to live and look at the state of the place. There will be zero change if either of these two parties retain power.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,789 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    This post has been deleted.

    Me, I can't vote (I'm the non-citizen taxpayer only kinda eejit) ...hand me that pitchfork there :D


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    I'd be tempted to vote SF at the next election. Mainly because they will win a seat in my constituency anyway (Hence I wouldn't need to worry about actually increasing their representation in the Dáil) but also because out of all the parties, they are the only ones capable of maintaining the self righteous air of the opposition. Their Marxist-Leninism singled them out as politically irrelevant, but at least they have a nice moral high ground.

    Compare with FG (Spineless opportunistic twats) who wanted to scrap stamp duty for first time buyers at the last election, but love to peddle the lie that they were ahead of the curve and would have miraculously saved Ireland if only they were in power. Labour (Directionless, vain, pompous, irrelevant) who still long after infantile leftism (How they expect this to ever work in an irrelevant and marginalised European economy with practically no industry amazes me)

    I won't vote FF because the country requires a change, even if the alternative may well be worse and more incompetant (Not to mention populist, spineless, and just as corrupt as FF) In normal circumstances I would vote Labour because I'm left of center, but the party has lurched quite far to the left recently, Eamon Gilmore is an absolute prat who harbours delusions of majority government, and also I simply cannot abide their incessant whinging about our economic condition. None of these parties deserve the moral high ground they try to carve out for themselves. Maybe history will judge that the kind of morons who took out loans to spend 20k on a ****ing bathtub were the cause of our crisis, not some government who forced (!) us to take out ridiculous loans for **** we didn't need.

    /Rant.

    I'm rather angry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    This post has been deleted.

    I'd consider myself as mainly "fiscal conservative", and there's no damn way in this wide earthy world that FF represent that!

    Remember that the only reason that FF have to pull back from the wastage is because they bought votes by dishing out that wastage.

    So there's no way I'll give them credit for undoing the damage that they did; it's far too little, far too late.
    The very last thing this country needs is five years with left-wing economic illiterates (Labour Party, SF, SWP, etc) anywhere near the reins of power.

    That's not the "very last thing" this country needs; it might be somewhere near that, but the "very last thing" that this country needs is to have disillusioned, underpaid people scraping by trying to survive while those at the top throw our money hand over fist at a bunch of gamblers and speculators.

    Of course, given that you're in favour of speculators making fortunes, etc, regardless of the consequences, that might explain why you'd consider them.

    Do we need less social welfare ? Yes, in general. Luxuries should be luxuries and should be earned, or else people should have to do community work for their welfare. Criminals and prisoners should too.

    Do we need a bit of cop-on whereby someone shouts STOP when bankrupt banks are paying €500,000 plus expenses to their management, using our money on the double (bailout plus increased interest rates) ? Yes

    Do we need those who condone and overlook corruption and expense-milking and dodgy deals to be anywhere near power ? Absolutely

    As a result, FF wouldn't even show up as an option on my radar.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,485 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Remember that the only reason that FF have to pull back from the wastage is because they bought votes by dishing out that wastage.

    FF dramatically increased public spending in education and healthcare. If I remember correctly FG and Labour promised the same. I believe it was considered a 'national consensus'. But by all means, delegate personal responsibility away to a bogeyman in Kildare St. and maybe all your troubles will sail away to fantasy land. Tell Gandalf I said hi.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Denerick wrote: »
    But by all means, delegate personal responsibility away to a bogeyman in Kildare St. and maybe all your troubles will sail away to fantasy land. Tell Gandalf I said hi.

    Please explain.

    Personal responsibility = borrowing within my means
    Personal responsibility = not voting for FF, so there was certainly no "national consensus"

    Should we have spent on stuff : Yes
    Should we have gotten value for money : Yes

    The second of those being the key point; FF's solution to everything was to throw more cash at it (a tactic learned from their Galway Tent buddies, no doubt, and they're now returning the favour).

    As for my "troubles", they're being added to daily by the said bogeymen (in both Kildare St and bank HQs) that others voted for and supported, and that have ruined this country.

    And I haven't a notion what the Gandalf reference is about.....does he point out the sickening unfairness of FF's actions as well, or what ? :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Spacedog


    You need to look at all of the individual candidates running in your local area. perhaps one candidate is a member of a party you hate, but you personally like.

    I suggest you focus your attention on independent candidates and examine them closely, as independent candidates tend not to be career politicians, and more like to be running because they want to change something, and know that the party politics to todays Irelend to to limited to do so.

    Finally if none of the candidates are at least slightly appealing or trust worthy, then it is your duty as citizen, to have the balls stand up and run yourself, if you beliefs are sincere and you think you can do better then those in charge. Convince people to vote for you and take the risk of having your ideas challenged and debated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,163 ✭✭✭✭Liam Byrne


    Spacedog wrote: »
    You need to look at all of the individual candidates running in your local area. perhaps one candidate is a member of a party you hate, but you personally like.

    Whether or not you like them is irrelevant, IMHO.

    Ahern was once - apparently - "likeable" (at least his projected persona was, to the point where the ridiculous "Bertie's Team" campaign was run) and look where that got us.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,823 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    I'd say as a pragmatic conservative, I'd vote on the competence level the local TDs/other candidates and what is their track record. My heusristic was to have politely asked their opinion on a matter and to base my voting on how they responsed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    I'm 19 so only just qualified to vote in reality. During the local elections all I seen was leaflets, posters and names. Now i read the leaflets, and most of them were waffling about stuff but I didn't really get any understanding of what they were trying to achieve. I'd vote for someone who'd take the time to explain what they stand for and exactly how it would benefit the people.

    Except Fine Gael, just don't like them.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 295 ✭✭simonj


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    is Amhran Nua running out of interest

    No, but its a long road - and it will take time


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