Glycoalkaloids and saponins - thoughts?

Sapsorrow

So I was sat down happily in the garden this morning with my breakfast (a colcannon type creation with kale and potatos etc) and laptop looking forward to reading the latest paleo diet newsletter from Lorein Cordain, only to find out it was part one of a two part article on the nightshade family. Here's a snippit;

I believe that far more troubling than the potential toxicity of potato glycoalkaloids is their potential to increase intestinal permeability over the course of a lifetime, most particularly in people with diseases of chronic inflammation (cancer, autoimmune disease, cardiovascular disease and diseases of insulin resistance). A leaky gut has been recently proposed to be a universal initiating trigger for autoimmune diseases14 – a conclusion that I agree with15, as well as promoting cardiovascular disease16, 17 and diseases of insulin resistance18.

Figure 1 shows how saponins disrupt cell membranes which may lead to a leaky gut. Saponins first bind cholesterol molecules in intestinal cell membranes due to the affinity of a saponin component (the aglycone moiety) for the membrane sterol (cholesterol)9. In the series of steps that follows, you can see how saponins cause portions of the cell membrane to buckle and eventually break free, forming a pore or a hole in the membrane.

Needless to say it ruined my breakfast somewhat for me. I'm trying to sort my IBS out at the minute and having a leaky gut is a serious concern of mine. My diet is so restricted though already having spuds is one of the few easy and really versatile foods I can eat! What are peoples thoughts on it?

Edwardius

There was a fair bit of nightshade hysteria there a while back on the interwebz. One of the things recommended was to cut nightshades (peppers, spuds, tomatoes etc) out for two weeks and then load up on them afterwards. If you notice any excessive swelling, sore joints, dodgy guts or inflammation then you have an issue with them. If not then happy days.

If it turns out you do have issues then you can just use sweet potatoes instead (part of the morning glory family, apparently)

El_Dangeroso

Gah, Loren Cordain annoys me sometimes, he tends to build up these seemingly logical arguments in favour of his point, but he never acknowledges epidemiological data that contradicts his hypothesis. Epidemiological studies can rarely prove anything, but they can help mount a case to disprove something.

So when Loren says that potatoes contain saponins and that "If they enter the bloodstream in sufficient concentrations, they cause hemolysis (destruction of the cell membrane) of red blood cells", that is technically true. But that 'if' is a pretty big 'if'. Sure if you inject them into the bloodstream then you're in trouble, but the quantity in actual potatoes is much, much smaller. Most of the saponins are in the skin of white potatoes, when you peel them, your left with even less.

When you compare the relative amount of toxins in white potato compared with the amount of toxins in things like cycads that were definitely eaten in the stone-age you begin to see how silly it is to cut the humble, delicious spud out of one's diet based on some scare stories with scary sounding chemical names.

There's no long term studies that show that saponins in nightshades cause a problem except possibly some people with arthritis. There's an awful lot of really well thought out and clever scientific theories out there that turn out to be completely wrong.

Ultimately in my opinion, keeping away from gluten, phytic acid, omega 6 and excess fructose is 99% of the benefit, after which the law of diminishing returns applies.

My 2c.

* In the interests of full disclosure, I must declare I fricking love potatoes and eat them once or twice a week.

Pembily

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Ultimately in my opinion, keeping away from gluten, phytic acid, omega 6 and excess fructose is 99% of the benefit, after which the law of diminishing returns applies.

What is phytic acid?? Do you recommend oats or do they include gluten?? So cut out all fruit as well?? Thanks

Sapsorrow

But from the perspective of someone who is worried they might already have a leaky gut would it not be better to play it safe when you're trying to heal it?

El_Dangeroso

Pembily wrote: »

What is phytic acid?? Do you recommend oats or do they include gluten?? So cut out all fruit as well?? Thanks

Phytic acid is in lots of things, you're not gonna cut it out but it is better to minimise it as it binds to important minerals that our modern diet is already deficient in such as magnesium and copper. Highest amount of phytic acid is in grains and beans, you can reduce it drastically by preparing the grains and beans properly by fermenting them. I just cut 'em out 'cos I'm lazy and they don't agree with me no matter how I prepare them. Oats can be cross-contaminated with gluten, but if you ferment them with live yoghurt on the counter top overnight they should be gluten and phytic acid free.

Sapsorrow wrote: »

But from the perspective of someone who is worried they might already have a leaky gut would it not be better to play it safe when you're trying to heal it?

Possibly, tbh the science isn't there yet to tell us one way or another. In my own experience I did cut them out for about a year with the odd indiscretion, so it could have helped heal my gut, I don't get IBS at all now unless I go completely crazy on raw vegetables. Cut all nightshades out for two weeks and then you'll know if you get any reaction, but I doubt you will.

Truth is every single plant has a toxin of some sort as a defense against being eaten, that's why we have a liver after all.

Sapsorrow

Sapsorrow wrote: »

A leaky gut has been recently proposed to be a universal initiating trigger for autoimmune diseases14 – a conclusion that I agree with15

That proposal wouldn't ring true in my family history.