Matchplay

Mr Titleist

2 handicap v's 12 handicap matchplay....

Be interesting to hear your thoughts......as regards to strategy,,,,game plan ....favourite etc.......surely the lower handicap is the strong fav right....

thoscon

im in the same boat.in our society matchplay qtr finals im playing a 23 handicap im off 12 meself
i should be the favourite but im giving alot of shots away and im gonna have to play out of my skin to win.not sure whether to adopt a certain strategy or just take it hole by hole
playing him sunday in headfort new

Mr Titleist

I'm the 12......fancy my chances IF I play half decent.......I mean if I shoot 9 or 10 pars.....my opponent may make alot of birdies right.

thoscon

Mr Titleist wrote: »

I'm the 12......fancy my chances IF I play half decent.......I mean if I shoot 9 or 10 pars.....my opponent may make alot of birdies right.

if you get 9 or 10pars you should be grand especially if they are holes that you have a shot on your opponent hed need alot of biridies to half them holes.hed have to play sum golf to have 9 birdies.

stockdam

Neither the low handicapper nor the high handicapper have any real advantage.

If both play to their handicap then it's going to probably be a tie.

Where the high handicapper often falls though is trying to match the low handicapper shot for shot and then getting into trouble or trying to pull off ridiculous shots.

The high handicapper should just keep the ball in play and use their shots wisely.

Trampas

The lower handicap person should always try and keep it in on the short stuff.

Higher handicap will end up trying to match and leads to mistakes.

soundsham

play to your h'cap and you wont be far out,

strategy:rolleyes: for 12 & 23 h'cappers
with all due respect just play each hole as well as possible your not a pro
dont play any different than you do week to week,as for getting 10 pars or 12 pars if you play off 12 your expected to get 6 pars

unless your opponent is in the total sh1t and you have 2 or 3 putts to win play your normal game,dont be getting ahead of yourself & enjoy

now a 2 h'capper is different they will have to take the odd chance here and there if behind perhaps,but I wouldn't be terlling a 2 h'capper what to do

Dr.Silly

I always think the higher handicap (12 in your case) is at an advantage.
Anytime I have played with people significantly better than me, my game is raised by a good few shots.

Gophur

Interesting, related, link,

Myth …..
'It is unfair in singles match play to require the lower handicap player to concede full handicap difference to his opponent. Three-quarters of the difference was more equitable.'

http://www.congu.com/template1.asp?pid=174

L.O.F.T

I will always say that it’s hard to play against shots. A high handicapper’s bogey will tie your par and a par by a high handicapper will require you to birdie, only to tie a hole.
Yes a low handicap in theory should be too strong and consistent but Ill put my money on the 12 over the 2 in the OP's original post.

Gophur

I played matchplay this week, giving 6 shots away. He had 4 shots on the back nine which he used to claw back a 2 hole advantage after first nine.

I prevailed on the 19th.

GreeBo

In reality all the low guy can do is try to par their way around and hope/expect that the high guy will make mistakes.
A lot depends on if they high guy is on the way down or has always been a high guy. If its an improver then the low guy has little chance, a perpetual high guy always makes mistakes.

Poker Face

I played a matchplay last week giving 16 shots. I play off 8. My strategy going out was to try and just play my own game and try and have around 36pts. It that wasnt enough to win then fair enough. I had 34 and managed to win on the 19th.

Going out, giving that many shots, I knew there would be a few holes where he would play well and there would be very little I could do to win the hole, but I also knew there would be holes I would win without having to putt out - which is the way it turned out.

Now in the next match, I currently only have to give 15 shots.

shawpower

GreeBo wrote: »

In reality all the low guy can do is try to par their way around and hope/expect that the high guy will make mistakes.
A lot depends on if they high guy is on the way down or has always been a high guy. If its an improver then the low guy has little chance, a perpetual high guy always makes mistakes.

That pretty much sums it up. If they guy is a genuine high handicapper, then the odds on him making mistakes are much higher. The low player just needs to play to his handicap then to probably win. It's a 55:45 odds on this so tight enough. As someone earlier said, if both play to their handicap, then the chances are that it'll go down 19.

MiniGolf

I played a matchplay last week. I'm off 18 and was giving away 7 shots!! I did my best to lose it on the front 9 - was -1 going onto 10 but pulled it back to win 3 & 2!
The course I played had 3 low index holes to finish..... we did play them out and I would have won by 4!!

GreeBo

MiniGolf wrote: »

I played a matchplay last week. I'm off 18 and was giving away 7 shots!! I did my best to lose it on the front 9 - was -1 going onto 10 but pulled it back to win 3 & 2!
The course I played had 3 low index holes to finish..... we did play them out and I would have won by 4!!

Im not keen on courses that have low indexes towards the end...

Look at it this way say you lost a match 5 & 4, but you had 4 shots on the last 4 holes...I'd be pretty pissed.
It also means that the low guy can get hit with needing a run of birdies to stay in the match, right at the death.

MiniGolf

GreeBo wrote: »

Im not keen on courses that have low indexes towards the end...

Look at it this way say you lost a match 5 & 4, but you had 4 shots on the last 4 holes...I'd be pretty pissed.
It also means that the low guy can get hit with needing a run of birdies to stay in the match, right at the death.

Yep! Agree with you.... not really fair on anyone! I didn't pick the course as my opponent had "home" draw!!
Doesn't the Rules of Golf give a "preferred" layout to courses..... ie: as above - no run of low index holes near end etc., etc??

Mr Titleist

GreeBo wrote: »

In reality all the low guy can do is try to par their way around and hope/expect that the high guy will make mistakes.
A lot depends on if they high guy is on the way down or has always been a high guy. If its an improver then the low guy has little chance, a perpetual high guy always makes mistakes.

Interesting to hear the comments guys....thanks.....I was off 9 four or five years ago but through less regular play have gone out to 12......although feel that I am hitting the ball reasonably well ....just need to get the scoring end together.

thoscon

Mr Titleist wrote: »

2 handicap v's 12 handicap matchplay....

Be interesting to hear your thoughts......as regards to strategy,,,,game plan ....favourite etc.......surely the lower handicap is the strong fav right....

have you played your match yet ?

played mine this morning won 8&7
was 1 down after 3 holes then then started hitting the ball very well getting alot of birdie chances .would have had 38pts so gud day all round

stockdam

Mr Titleist wrote: »

2 handicap v's 12 handicap matchplay....

Be interesting to hear your thoughts......as regards to strategy,,,,game plan ....favourite etc.......surely the lower handicap is the strong fav right....

Not the strong favourite but with 100% of the handicap difference then the low handicap player has a statistical edge........

Taken from CONGU.........


http://www.congu.com/faqDetail2.asp?id=174




Q.1 Why does CONGU direct the full handicap difference in matchplay?

A.1
All the Home Unions now recognise that giving the player with the higher handicap an allowance equivalent to the full handicap difference is the most consistent with equity. In view of this CONGU now directs that the full allowance in the difference between the handicaps be applied in singles matchplay.
It is wrong to say that there has been a debate on the question, because the argument for no change has barely been presented. CONGU has been waiting for years for a coherent document to be shown to it which finishes with the words. Therefore the fair allowance in matchplay is three-quarters of the difference in handicap. This has so far not been forthcoming.

To help to convince the doubters, this note sets out the basic arguments.

We start with the assumption that, for strokeplay, the present CONGU Unified Handicap System is accurate and fair for players with a reasonably full competitive record. All statistical investigations which have been made support this statement, and certainly it is much superior to any alternatives which have been suggested. We also assume that we want the scale of matchplay allowances to be fair, in the sense that each participant has a roughly equal chance of winning. This is not such a trivial statement as it might appear, because some golfers believe that the lower handicap player should actually be given the advantage. Suppose, nevertheless, that we have been charged with the task of devising the fair matchplay odds given our present handicapping system, based as it is on stroke-play data, and no previous assumptions. How should we proceed?

Let's think about how we would expect a match between a 6-handicapper and a 16-handicapper to go. First of all what scores do we expect each of them to achieve if they put in an average performance? There is an annoying technical point which affects the argument. We do not actually expect a player to 'play to his handicap'. The CONGU UHS, like all other handicap systems round the world, handicaps players according to the better half of their records. The high handicappers are more erratic and therefore their average score is relatively more in excess of their handicaps than is the case for the better players. So, instead of a difference of ten strokes between their scores, we expect something like eleven or twelve. Already our analysis is tilting the scales slightly against our sixteen handicapper.

But, for the moment, assume that in their match both players play exactly to their handicaps never having a birdie, nor a double bogey, and dropping their strokes consistently where the stroke index says they should. Playing level the 6-handicapper would have won ten holes, and under full handicap difference the match would have been all square. So where are we getting this 'three-quarters' from? In real life, of course, matches don't go like that. People take double or triple bogeys and even get birdies. We need to consider how strokes are likely to be converted into holes won, lost, or halved in matchplay. There are two ways in which strokes fail to be used at all. Our sixteen-handicapper might win a hole without needing his stroke or lose a hole in spite of having had one; so he might as well not have had a stroke at those holes! Actually, investigative work has been done on this- and there is a surprisingly consistent result. Just over 40% of a stroke entitlement, on average, is 'wasted'. Enthusiastic enquirers can check this by interrogating competitors in club handicap knock-outs. The conclusion is that our sixteen-handicapper, even if he gets ten shots, is only likely to be able to use six of them. It's beginning to look as if even full difference is not enough.

So far this is mostly theoretical. But let us consider the real life situation. Most Clubs run a handicap matchplay knockout competition each year with a reasonably large entry. Have a look at the honours board listing past winners. Even Clubs which use full difference find that low Category players predominate. And whether they have changed to full difference or not they will be pressed to produce any 3 or 4 Category winners in the last twenty years.
This is even more striking when you realise that low handicap players form quite a low proportion of the total entry. You can also look at the individual results for each match in the tournament, and you will find that the low handicappers have a consistent edge. The Scottish Golf Union has done a lot of work on this. They have an excellent presentation subtitled 'Myths and misconceptions', which will soon be on the CONGU Website. They carried out a survey of Clubs before and after the change to full difference. Before the change, 61% of handicap singles matches were won by the lower handicap player. After the change to full difference, the low handicapper won 55% (note that he still had an edge).

A good deal of experimentation has been done with what is called simulation. Using hole-by-hole scores from strokeplay many, indeed thousands, of 'pretend' matches can be run between each potential pair in the field. An objection may be raised that such a simulation is not like the real thing. But if you think about it, simulation probably actually understates the advantage which the low handicapper has. He can control the game better, preserving his winning position at a hole when necessary. Anyway, these simulations consistently show that, even at full difference, the low handicapper usually wins. (If you want to know the horrid truth, to make it even you would have to use nearly one-and-a-quarter times the difference. Not that that is recommended!). And using three-quarters gives the low- handicapper a huge edge. The actual numerical results can be provided on request; but you can rest assured that, the more numerical you get, the stronger is the evidence for full difference.

It is only fair to consider counter-arguments. One common complaint just now is that our low handicap players don't enter handicap knock-outs after the change to full difference; because the odds are against them. This is nonsense; all that has happened is that the odds in their favour have been changed from enormously favourable to favourable, but not actually unfair. The problem is one of education. Another childish question is 'Do you seriously expect me to give two strokes at one hole?' The answer to that is yes; and it happens even at three-quarters difference.

Finally, as a matter of interest three-quarters of handicap for singles appears to be used nowhere else in the world.

Affiliated Clubs are encouraged to download this answer if they think it would help them put the arguments to their sceptical members.

stockdam

MiniGolf wrote: »

Yep! Agree with you.... not really fair on anyone! I didn't pick the course as my opponent had "home" draw!!
Doesn't the Rules of Golf give a "preferred" layout to courses..... ie: as above - no run of low index holes near end etc., etc??

Yes there are recommendations for stroke indexes.

http://www.englishgolfunion.org/showpage.asp?code=0001000200090009

soundsham

I tried to read it .......zzzzzzzzzzzz

Mr Titleist

thoscon wrote: »

have you played your match yet ?

played mine this morning won 8&7
was 1 down after 3 holes then then started hitting the ball very well getting alot of birdie chances .would have had 38pts so gud day all round

Played it this eve and lost on the 18th...Only had 4 pars and 2 birdies.....Hitting it well though so cant complain either.......Should have got up and down alot more but chipping was woeful.

thoscon

Mr Titleist wrote: »

Played it this eve and lost on the 18th...Only had 4 pars and 2 birdies.....Hitting it well though so cant complain either.......Should have got up and down alot more but chipping was woeful.

unlucky.still a good effort to bring a 2 handicapper to the 18th

BUACHAILL

yeah hard luck, as said already good going getting to 18 !! n odoubt you will learn from it and get you more determined !!

Par72

Lower handicappers always have the edge no matter how many shots you are giving.