Bichon Frise tear stains

TequilaMockingBird

Anyone any advice? I've just been giving them a good scrub while bathing him, but could anyone recommend one of the many products available?

Thanks.

mymo

Put a couple of drops of cider vinegar in the drinking water, I read it on here before and tried it recently as changed the dogs food and suddenly they have these redish colour tear stains. It doesn't get rid of the stain but stops them getting worse, I cut out stained hair and theres no new stains.

TequilaMockingBird

Thanks. So do you think the stains are related to their diet?

BTW for a tiny dog, he bleedin' stinks! I've been looking at indoor dogs food, but I'm not sure if it's okay for a puppy. I'll ask the vet, but if anyone has a recommendation.. for a non tear staining non stinky puppy food - that would be cool!

mymo

I had been feeding royal canin and had no problems, nice firm poops not too stinky and not too many. Recently changed to arden grange and the staining started, so for mine its the food(checked with vet not infection or anything, he thinks food too) and more poop which is softer too(sorry for all the poop talk).
Arden grange has a good reputation it doesn't agree with my two dogs though, orijen is supposed to be very good as are james well beloved, and Robbies holistic food or luath(same company).
Mine aren't Bichon's though, and I think tear staining is a problem with bichons.
I wash my two with baby shampoo and conditioner(Tesco's) dilute it in warm water(about 50-50) and pour over dog rubbing it in. Rinse really well then same with conditioner. Smells great:D and is fine so long as well rinsed. Their coats are looking lovely too.
Teeth can cause smells too so try brushing them, No toothpaste just water.
Another thing causes smell is when anal glands need emptying:eek: go to a groomer for that one, and as its a pup it shouldn't be that(yet).

Dry food is best, what are you currently feeding and how old is the pup?

TequilaMockingBird

OH GOD at anal glands needing emptying :eek:

Thanks for all the info. He's 12 weeks and on Pedigree Chum dry puppy food (and the odd bit of Whiskas canned he hijacks from the cat).

Why did you stop using Royal Canin? It sounds good.

Andrew33

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Thanks. So do you think the stains are related to their diet?

BTW for a tiny dog, he bleedin' stinks! I've been looking at indoor dogs food, but I'm not sure if it's okay for a puppy. I'll ask the vet, but if anyone has a recommendation.. for a non tear staining non stinky puppy food - that would be cool!

FFS! I have a Shih Tzu, (Benny) with eye problems, We took him from the pound KNOWING it'd be a lifetime (his:() of work, How can you care what smells he makes or whether his eyes look pretty all the time? Regarding his poop, what goes in= what comes out. Get him onto a good dry food (BAKERS) and cut out the treats, you will give your dog a slow painful death feeding him stuff like bits of choc and bits of fat you wouldn't eat yourself, and I think thats not a bad mantra, If you won't eat it yourself, don't ask your dog to eat it.

mymo

There's your problem, pedigree and bakers and most of the supermarket brands are full of crap and chemicals, please try and find a good food, Burns is also good and cheaper than the others I listed, as is Redmills Leader(though not sure if they have puppy food).

Stopped the Royal canin as it was very expensive but will be going back to it as soon as this stuff is gone.
If I gave mine pedigree I'd have to leave the house 'cos of the smell!

morganafay

Andrew33 wrote: »

How can you care what smells he makes or whether his eyes look pretty all the time?/QUOTE]

Tear stains can hurt their skin and a dog smelling is sign of bad health sometimes, so it's kinda important. And it's not really practical to have a smelly dog in the house either. And it's much better for the dog if he is not eating food that makes his poo smell.

Also, I don't really know but I've heard Bakers is not a good food.

morganafay

If you get rid of the tear stains (by cutting them out or whatever) then you can put a bit of vaseline where the tear stains would be, everyday, and that'll stop the fur getting dirty and stop the tears irritating the skin.

It's kinda weird that I read this thread cos about an hour ago I was outside with my dogs and I was just thinking that one of them, Bella, had tear stains, and then Donna (another dog!) went up and licked her tear stains away.

TequilaMockingBird

Andrew33 wrote: »

FFS! I have a Shih Tzu, (Benny) with eye problems, We took him from the pound KNOWING it'd be a lifetime (his:() of work, How can you care what smells he makes or whether his eyes look pretty all the time? Regarding his poop, what goes in= what comes out. Get him onto a good dry food (BAKERS) and cut out the treats, you will give your dog a slow painful death feeding him stuff like bits of choc and bits of fat you wouldn't eat yourself, and I think thats not a bad mantra, If you won't eat it yourself, don't ask your dog to eat it.

Did you reply to the wrong post? If not I recommend yoga. Focuses the mind..

mymo

If you're not sure about if a food is good or not read the ingredients, anything with a named meat, Chicken, beef, pork etc, is usually good, if it says meat derivatives or stuff you don't know its probably not so good, same with colours.
Most have rice or potato added, they are better for some dogs than grains(corn, wheat, maize etc), and many foods have added fish oils (good), generally the less ingredients the better.
Try googling some of the foods and compare ingredients.

Be careful if you try vaseline, not to close to the eyes and if like one of mine he washes himself with his paws like a cat, don't use it.

TequilaMockingBird

mymo wrote: »

There's your problem, pedigree and bakers and most of the supermarket brands are full of crap and chemicals, please try and find a good food, Burns is also good and cheaper than the others I listed, as is Redmills Leader(though not sure if they have puppy food).

Stopped the Royal canin as it was very expensive but will be going back to it as soon as this stuff is gone.
If I gave mine pedigree I'd have to leave the house 'cos of the smell!

morganafay wrote: »

Tear stains can hurt their skin and a dog smelling is sign of bad health sometimes, so it's kinda important. And it's not really practical to have a smelly dog in the house either. And it's much better for the dog if he is not eating food that makes his poo smell.

Also, I don't really know but I've heard Bakers is not a good food.

Many thanks. I'll try him with a different food. I have cut the badly stained hair, but it's a bit risky tbh and I'd rather a more natural way of stopping it if possible.


He's asleep on my lap and is GORGEOUS.

mymo

Its tricky cutting round eyes, get someone to help hold the head and snout, always point scissors down away from eyes, and use mid way down blade to cut, not near tip. Hope that makes sense, if you're worried ask a groomer to do it.
Don't forget to post pic's;)

morganafay

One of my dogs doesn't have tear stains but she has kinda bits of fluffy hair near her eyes, and I she's too wriggly to trim it so I tried plucking it out with my fingers and it came out easily and didn't hurt her really. Only pluck it if it comes away quite easily though, otherwise it could hurt.

If he's used to having his ear hair plucked then he might be less sensitive about plucking anyway.

TequilaMockingBird

I get what you're saying about the scissors. I'll look for one of those kids sharp scissors with round tips.

I had to bring him with me to a couple of shops today - the car was too hot. I felt like a prat anyway with my little poodle and handbag. Got home and realised my top buttons had opened. Paris Hilton I ain't.

TequilaMockingBird

morganafay wrote: »

One of my dogs doesn't have tear stains but she has kinda bits of fluffy hair near her eyes, and I she's too wriggly to trim it so I tried plucking it out with my fingers and it came out easily and didn't hurt her really. Only pluck it if it comes away quite easily though, otherwise it could hurt.

If he's used to having his ear hair plucked then he might be less sensitive about plucking anyway.

Thanks for that. I can't imagine doing it though, jesus plucking my eyebrows hurts - ear hair must be agony.

But I'm new to this, I'll get there. If not, the vet/groomer will.

mymo

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

I get what you're saying about the scissors. I'll look for one of those kids sharp scissors with round tips.

I had to bring him with me to a couple of shops today - the car was too hot. I felt like a prat anyway with my little poodle and handbag. Got home and realised my top buttons had opened. Paris Hilton I ain't.

That happened to me too, (the buttons), wondered why the lorry driver beeped and waved at me at the traffic lights:o

Andrew33

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Did you reply to the wrong post? If not I recommend yoga. Focuses the mind..

Sorry Tequila, didn't mean to get fired up. You know when you hear about an animal being misfed and you just think "holy ****, if they stopped that, things would be better for all.

TequilaMockingBird

mymo wrote: »

That happened to me too, (the buttons), wondered why the lorry driver beeped and waved at me at the traffic lights:o

Bet you thought it was the dog!

But no, IT WAS YOU!

TequilaMockingBird

Andrew33 wrote: »

Sorry Tequila, didn't mean to get fired up. You know when you hear about an animal being misfed and you just think "holy ****, if they stopped that, things would be better for all.

I didn't mention mis-feeding him. You just jumped on in there.

Apology accepted though.

mymo

I did, he was in the passenger seat in his little seat belt, about 3 months old and very cute and fluffy:D
I even waved back, by god I was red in the face when I got home and found out the real reason:D

TequilaMockingBird

mymo wrote: »

I did, he was in the passenger seat in his little seat belt, about 3 months old and very cute and fluffy:D
I even waved back, by god I was red in the face when I got home and found out the real reason:D

Tart.

(Joke:D)

mymo

The plucking the ear hair thing isn't sore at all, my two don't even blink when I do it, little cornflower or talc to get a grip, then good tug and its gone. I do a little at a time, its not rooted very deep. A good groomer will show you these little things, mine did.
Its good to do it as it allows air into the ear, helps prevent ears infections and stuff.

Andrew33

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

I didn't mention mis-feeding him. You just jumped on in there.

Apology accepted though.

he's asleep on my lap as i type (doesn't make it easy!)
I have to put "Optimune" in his eyes twice a day and a "tears" gel 4 times a day but after 4 days of torture(for both of us) he now excepts that he feels better "after" I do it so he doesn't mind too much. I love him so much it hurts.:o

morganafay

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Thanks for that. I can't imagine doing it though, jesus plucking my eyebrows hurts - ear hair must be agony.

But I'm new to this, I'll get there. If not, the vet/groomer will.

I know! I feel bad plucking their ear hair, especially since Bichons are quite sensitive dogs and often seem to cry if you just brush through a tangle. But apparently they're one of the breeds who get a lot of ear hair in their ear canal :eek:

TequilaMockingBird

Thanks. As he's so young I haven't had to face this yet, I just wanted to make sure he didn't get an infection from the tear stains.

I gather now you pluck with your fingers? I was imaging trying to get a tweezers in his ear. :eek:

Learning curve to be sure..

morganafay

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

I gather now you pluck with your fingers? I was imaging trying to get a tweezers in his ear. :eek:

You can pluck the ear hair with your fingers, but if it won't come out then they might have to use tweezers. It sounds worse than it is though, I don't think it hurts a lot. I guess the first time it does, but every time it probably gets easier. Well I find that with eyebrows!

I'm thinking of getting a Bichon myself, and am not looking forward to plucking the ears when she gets older!

Denimgirl

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

OH GOD at anal glands needing emptying :eek:

Thanks for all the info. He's 12 weeks and on Pedigree Chum dry puppy food (and the odd bit of Whiskas canned he hijacks from the cat).

Why did you stop using Royal Canin? It sounds good.

Diamond eyes is great i get it for my yorkshire terriers it's €6.99 put it on a cotton ball and gently rub it's very good.

mymo

Doesn't diamond eyes contain antibiotics?
I know some of those drops do, I don't think its a good idea to be using something like that all the time. I have no doubt they work, but think I'd prefer to address the problem without medicating.

wopper10

Your right Diamond eyes does have a mild antibiotic and angel eyes is another ones that has a bleaching product stay clear of both.

You need to go for an all natural product such as eye envy or happy tails branded eye pack. Both very good and al natural products no antibiotics and no bleaches! Works by counteracting the enzyme that cause the staining (I think).
Hope that helps!

1c1a

Ive a lovely little shih tzu but she also suffers from tear stains so Ive tried diamond eyes which I've found to be great so maybe you should try it:)

wopper10

1c1a wrote: »

Ive a lovely little shih tzu but she also suffers from tear stains so Ive tried diamond eyes which I've found to be great so maybe you should try it:)

it is good and does work but it has an antibiotic in it. All be it a mild antibiotic its not good to be constantly giving your dog antibiotics. You should try eye envy I know plenty of people that have used it. I've seen the results it works REALLY well but its all natural and contains now chemicals that could be harmful to your dog....

golden8

http://www.vmd.gov.uk/Publications/MAVIS/Full/mavis66.pdf

I know angel eyes (which has tylosin) was taken off the market in the uk see link above which is defra. Diamond eyes does contain tylosin so therefore would not be in the UK market.

I would not use them due to the fact that they where pulled by defra.

There was a topic on this a few months ago

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64443813

1c1a

wopper10 wrote: »

it is good and does work but it has an antibiotic in it. All be it a mild antibiotic its not good to be constantly giving your dog antibiotics. You should try eye envy I know plenty of people that have used it. I've seen the results it works REALLY well but its all natural and contains now chemicals that could be harmful to your dog....

hey thanks I might give it a go, It was my vet that told me about diamond eyes so I assumed it was ok to use. Can you get eye envy in any pet shop?

wopper10

1c1a wrote: »

hey thanks I might give it a go, It was my vet that told me about diamond eyes so I assumed it was ok to use. Can you get eye envy in any pet shop?

Hi I'm sure a good few pet shops stock it but the one where my friends get theirs is Mollys pet Boutique in Dun Laoghaire, they have a website as well Mollys.ie. God luck with it!:)

Essexboy

You might find this useful.
http://www.bhejei.com/tearsta.htm

cucoigcrice

Hi TMB, there are alot of small breed dogs that suffer from this. Generally it could be a few things but alot of the time it is the following. The dog has tear ducts just in the inner side of the bottom eye lid and these ducts become blocked therefore th tears can not be drained away. This casues thet tears to then run down the outer part of the eye. This might be what it is, i would speak to your vet and if tha is the case i would she if they could unblock them for you. Hope this is helpful:D

Crafty-Chel

when i was dog grooming we had a lot of bichon's with tear stains... then one day a women came in and her bichon had none whatsoever, so we quized her on the dog's diet (to get advice for our other customer) and she was feeding him the same thing she feeds the rest of the family, she says he got lots of chicken and potatoes ect... hes coat was great and he was really white (alot of bichons get red stains on there legs from licking them) he didnt have any of this either... so maybe thats the way to go with them...

ABajaninCork

Have you tried camomile tea?

I have a Shih Tzu who has a few staining problems around his mouth. Found the idea on the internet which I've been trying. Just make the tea, leave to cool to blood heat, and gently wash his face with the infusion. Use a cotton wool pad, and use one for each side of his face. It seemed to make the marks much lighter.

If the staining is around his mouth, then the vet recommended cleaning his teeth every couple of days to keep the staining down too.

Although he's had a good cut since then, there's been no real problems with staining since I've tried these.

boomerang

Andrew33 wrote: »

FFS! I have a Shih Tzu, (Benny) with eye problems, We took him from the pound KNOWING it'd be a lifetime (his:() of work, How can you care what smells he makes or whether his eyes look pretty all the time? Regarding his poop, what goes in= what comes out. Get him onto a good dry food (BAKERS) and cut out the treats, you will give your dog a slow painful death feeding him stuff like bits of choc and bits of fat you wouldn't eat yourself, and I think thats not a bad mantra, If you won't eat it yourself, don't ask your dog to eat it.

Andrew, Bakers is awful stuff. It's the very last thing I'd feed a dog. It is full of artificial additives that have been banned for human consumption - some of them known carcinogens. It is also notorious for causing hyperactivity because of the tartrazine.

There's no harm in a dog owner taking pride in their dog's appearance and why not look for a solution to smells - apart from anything else it can indicate a digestive problem or a problem in the mouth.

boomerang

TequilaMockingBird wrote: »

Thanks. As he's so young I haven't had to face this yet, I just wanted to make sure he didn't get an infection from the tear stains.

I gather now you pluck with your fingers? I was imaging trying to get a tweezers in his ear. :eek:

Learning curve to be sure..

I read up on the tear stains lately - some of the professional grooming products can sting if they get in the eyes, so just be careful with them. One natural solution is to dab the stains regularly with some cotton wool soaked in cooled, boiled water and a pinch of salt - it helps to kill off the yeast that causes the staining. Ditto on the cider vinegar too. It's also good for arthritis. (Not that your puppy has arthritis but I said I'd mention it, lol!)

I'd say a Bichon puppy might be a little bit particular about his food, so try and get some samples of different foods before you pay out for a big bag. As others have mentioned, Robbies or Luath (from the Land of Holistic Pets) Burns, Arden Grange, James Wellbeloved and Orijen are all good foods. You'll only find rubbish in the supermarket, to be honest.

boomerang

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Have you tried camomile tea?

I have a Shih Tzu who has a few staining problems around his mouth. Found the idea on the internet which I've been trying. Just make the tea, leave to cool to blood heat, and gently wash his face with the infusion. Use a cotton wool pad, and use one for each side of his face. It seemed to make the marks much lighter.

That's a good idea! Chamomile tea can also be used as a natural, gentle eye wash if your dog has an eye infection, so it certainly won't do any harm.