instructors with ego

lubo_moravcik

i attended a class last week for the first time. was looking forward to it and the main instructor was welcoming and informative. on the night i got there the main man wasn't there, another guy was taking the class. all was going well until the last 5 mins when he decided to show us some 'grips/locks', why i don't know. given it was the first night i personally felt we had done a nice bit and would have happily went home and practiced what i'd learned.
with the locks, he done a move on another guy who was there for the 2nd time, the result being him being tossed on the floor and screaming out in agony. he then asked me to come over and although i was a bit reluctant and anxious about it, he done the same to me and same result, i was screaming in agony.
ok, people can say maybe you're just a pussy or whatever, but i genuinuly don't know why he would do that to someone on a first night, even give it til the next lesson when i'm settling in more. the rolls and throws were sufficient for a newbie to go home with, and to come back looking forward to learning new things (such as locks).

the result for me is a strained muscle on my arm and no desire to go back to the club.

it's great that you can do these moves which will help fight off undesirables, but at least give me a chance to settle in and get a feel for it before showing me how great you actually think you are mate.


cheers

arybvtcw0eolkf

What style was it?.

OLDMAN1

go some were else and dont look back, put it down to experience, you now know what a asshole looks like

Disgraceful, Name and shame

lubo_moravcik

i'd rather not 'name and shame' or say the style, it's just something that will stick with me for the time being. as much as it feels inside that i am, i'm not playing a victim here, i genuinely don't feel there was any need for someone to show moves that i/we(the other guy was on his 2nd night) were obviously not prepared for. i seen and heard him in pain, and although he told me to relax or it would hurt, i couldn't because i had just witnessed what the other lad had went through.
i would still like to try this art out and will look elsewhere, if not for that then maybe something similar

yomchi

Disgraceful. What style was it? I'm sure the peeps here could point you in the direction of a proper club.

OLDMAN1

there are plenty of good clubs around, forget about that fella, he probably wouldn'nt have been able to teach you much any way,people like that use beginners to make themselfs feel big, what style of type of fighting do you want to learn and im sure that you will get a lot of good suggestions here.

kravicecreama

sorry to hear about what happened.The very first ma class I went too so impressed me I trained there for 4 years.
Since then I have tried out various systems and dojo's and gyms.Some I liked, some i didnt.
At the end of the day its YOU who wants to learn and in YOUR time. So just walk away and try another club.And if you dont like that one move on. We are in an enviable situation in this country in that not only is there a massive amount of styles and systems to choose from, we also some of the best instructors in europe.
As someone else remarked..now you know what a bad teacher behaves like.The martial art world is full of them so take your time and try out a few clubs. You will know when you have found the right one.

rom

Can you tell us what you were training in at least.

Would love some expert to start there as a beginner and teach him a thing or two.

corkma

I've wasted time with bad instructoors. its not worht it. theree are lots of good clubs about so move on quickly. training with idiots is dangerous

lubo_moravcik

rom wrote: »

Can you tell us what you were training in at least.

Would love some expert to start there as a beginner and teach him a thing or two.

bujinkan.
as said in the initial post, the guy who runs the class wasn't there and someone else was taking it. i watched a senior class the week before with the 'main man'/dojo and at no time did i see anything that would put me off wanting to come back. again i do'nt want to sound like a pussy, i think he saw the fear in my eye when he asked me to put my hand up to show me the throw, he knew i was nervous and tense and still he went ahead with it. i'm NOT bad mouthing the class as a whole, i just think instructors should be more aware of how a simple bit off ****-wittery can put off and new potential members/participants/customers etc etc

casper69

I'm sorry to read of your bad expirence but can I offer a suggestion based on what you have posted above.

You seem to have enjoyed what you saw in the senior class you watched, and you say the main man was pleasent and informative.

Why not talk to him about what happened and see if he can sort things out for you.

This may have a better out come than just posting here

Bujinkan

Wow that is a shame, I would go with the above advice and take it up with the main instructor. There are cases however when a simple lock when applied correctly can be quite sore even though done soft. This can be due to inflexability of the joint. And if your not used to getting locks applied correctly it can be a shock to the system! If you want you can PM me?

yomchi

Bujinkan wrote: »

Wow that is a shame, I would go with the above advice and take it up with the main instructor. There are cases however when a simple lock when applied correctly can be quite sore even though done soft. This can be due to inflexability of the joint. And if your not used to getting locks applied correctly it can be a shock to the system! If you want you can PM me?

Even more reason not to perform one on a beginner IMO.

Bujinkan

Yomchi with the greatest of respect you are not aware of the Bujinkan beginners training syllibus. In my club we teach Locks, throws, Breakfalls and striking drills from the first class. Every student is made watch a class so that they know "exactly" what will be required of them if they decide to train. I'm not taking up for anyone here. This could be a total misunderstanding. If it is not he needs to inform the senior instructor so that this does not happen again! I can remember doing Judo a long time ago (nearly 30 years ago) and the first time I was thrown I hurt myself. There was no malice in the throw, I just tensed and landed bad. No one wants a bully in their club, thats why this needs to be brought to the proper instructors attention!

Bujinkan

Also like you said, I can point him in the direction of another club!

OLDMAN1

i undersatand that the main instructor was not there but from my experience assistants are a reflection of the senior instructor or should be, i recently did a few judo sessions, with 8 judo black belts in the class and me, there was'nt one instructor there , there was 8 guys helping each other, i found them all to be friendly and helpfull and they are the same weather the main instructor is there or not . they were a reflection of there instructor, im not trying to promote judo, there are a lot of good instructors from diffferent styles around, dont settle for second best ...

Slowpoke

Did the OP make the instructor aware of his elbow problems he posted here;

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055891215

Bujinkan

I understand the point you are trying to make Oldman, but you seem to be missing the point on this. In order to teach in the Bujinkan you must hold Shidoshi (full instructor) or Shidoshi Ho (Junior instructor) licence. Someone must always be responsible for the class....period (and your insurance requires it by law). If not it really is dangerous. Now lubo_moravcik has a "Grievance" and therefore it cannot go ignored. When you run a club if you are not there yourself you are placing your reputation in the hands of those you "Trust". If that trust has in anyway been broken you need to know about it, as you so rightly pointed out it is a reflection on the club as a whole!
If it was your club and that type of complaint was made, would you not want to know about it. If it was someone that you trust and you have put into that position of responsibility, you would want to know what happened from both sides. But you must also remember that it is a contact martial art, and with all contact martial arts accidents can happen. But until you have both sides you cannot make a judgement...fact! Thats like me accusing you of something and not giving you a say....how fair would that be??????

casper69

Re: the injury

The plot thickens!!

Bujinkan

Slowpoke wrote: »

Did the OP make the instructor aware of his elbow problems he posted here;

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055891215

This puts quite a different slant on things cosidering that the gentleman already had a underlying problem with his arm, good find Slowpoke!!

Bujinkan

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66188480#post66188480

This was posted by the gentleman yesterday!

me_right_one

I dont think its the injury that the OP's on about. He's concerned at the asshole instructor. Why did yerman have to show off in the first place? The instructor didnt know he was injured, but even if he did, he shouldn't have taken out his egotistical urge on a newbie, especially in a sport designed to fight and hurt people. Imagine if the OP was starting clay-pigeon shooting and some dikchead instructor told him to start running while levelling his gun at him:eek::eek::eek:. Thats what its akin to. As for telling the main man, yeah right! Does anyone think he could continue getting training in the same club, with the same asshole instructor hanging around, just waiting for his chance to get his own back? Come on!!!!!!!!!!

blanco

I had a similar experience as the OP on my second night in the BBD on Parnell St.

The first night was grand, Belfast Martin did the class.

The second night the chief instructor Brian took it.

Near the end of the night, he separated the beginners and told them he wanted to 'teach us pain.' (He honestly told us that!)

He said we must learn how much pressure to put on a wrist lock, and asked us to each grab his lapel.

#remember this bit # I told him I was a blue belt in judo and already have a good idea of that.

But, he insisted and said if we didn't do as we asked we should leave and not come back.

I thought this was the only place to learn Ninjutsu and reckoned he must know what he was doing.

The first guy to do it fell to the floor crying in pain. I was second to go and he didn't have me screaming the first time he tried it, so he did it harder... that did it!
He did that until all of us were on the floor in severe pain.

Out of the 6 of us 4 never came back.

I carried on training with the club for another few months, but every night he trained us was horrible. His ego was incredible...

The other trainers were grand: Martin & Alan from Belfast and Martin McA

There were also a couple of bullies / nut-jobs you had to try to avoid. But that's a different story..

I don't think it went down well that I did judo for some reason, All the senior instructors bar Martin McA had some issue with it.

#And when a black-belt from the Belfast club had difficulty throwing me he got a bit angry and told me I should go with his (Sloppy) throw.
When I did, he walloped me onto the ground, laughed and said, "I bet you didn't learn that in judo". #

The throws and wrist-locks are very poor in that club btw.

My training schedule went something like this... train for 2 weeks. Get injured, miss a day or twos work & take 1 week off (training)....
I was never injured in judo or even kick-boxing for some reason.

I can't believe I stayed so long, but as I said, I thought it was the only place I could learn Ninjutsu.

Craptacular

me_right_one wrote: »

he shouldn't have taken out his egotistical urge on a newbie

That's a little harsh. What happened next? Were the beginners left to practice the move or did the instructor walk of laughing evilly? It's already been stated that beginners learn locks and so on so it's possible the stand-in instructor was just following the usual class timetable rather than showing off or bullying anyone. This could all be a misunderstanding but without the other side of the story we'll never know.

Bujinkan

me_right_one wrote: »

Why did yerman have to show off in the first place? The instructor didnt know he was injured, but even if he did, he shouldn't have taken out his egotistical urge on a newbie,

So three points here. First you tell someone if you are injured. You should not be training with an underlying injury until it is cleared. If you allow yourself to have a lock put on an already injured arm, and have not told anyone....I'm guessing you would scream in pain no matter how gentle it was. The other thing the OP said was that there was another student there. So that student can confirm or deny the claims of the OP to the head instructor. Third, you are making an assumption when you where not there and no one has got the other side of the story......yeah that seems fair alright:rolleyes:!!!

Bujinkan

blanco wrote: »

I had a similar experience as the OP on my second night in the BBD on Parnell St.
.

Blanco, The BBD is in no way affiliated with the Bujinkan. Brian left the Bujinkan many years ago but still uses the name Bujinkan Brian Dojo. You can google it, but for the record the BBD is not Bujinkan!!!!!

blanco

Bujinkan wrote: »

Blanco, The BBD is in no way affiliated with the Bujinkan. Brian left the Bujinkan many years ago but still uses the name Bujinkan Brian Dojo. You can google it, but for the record the BBD is not Bujinkan!!!!!

I heard that a few years after I left. Though Brian still claims a connection with Hatsumi.
I believe Dr Hatsumi wrote an article about clearing out all the troublemakers, probably at about the time I trained at the BBD!

I also used the term Ninjutsu as opposed Bujinkan in my piece to avoid confusion.

I trained with a few Bujinkan guys about 10 years ago & found they didn't have that same nastiness as the BBD guys. Which is probably a good thing
My favourite instructor was Mark from Ballyfermot - not too arty farty and not too hard-core either.

Bujinkan

Yeah he left quite a while back. There is no longer a connection between Mr Mc Carthy and Hatsumi Sensei. I know Mark Cleary well, he is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet!

blanco

Bujinkan wrote: »

I know Mark Cleary well, he is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet!

Absolutly. If I could commit to more training, it would be with him. (Work abroad a lot)

Signing off.

poconnor16

Any class I've taken (teached or taken part in) beginners are not used for demonstration - for fairly obvious reasons. I dont know much about this particular art so I wont judge - but to the OP; just walk away as it doesn't sound like something you are looking for.
And do me a favour - stop calling yourself a pu**y.....the so called 'instructor' that did that to you is the real coward here IMO.:rolleyes:

Bujinkan

Again see post no. 26!!!!!!!

To the OP, at the end of the day you have the right to vote with your feet and go somewhere else. But if you still want to train in that club then you need to be speaking to the Head Instructor. Why dont you do that then come back here and tell us what was said? Until then or until there is another side to the story your not going to get any other advice that you can use. To the other posters please always remember that there are "TWO" sides to any story, and until you have both you are just giving your opinion which is not based on fact as you where not there! A one sided argument/discussion is not a debate, its a witch hunt!!!!;)

lubo_moravcik

Slowpoke wrote: »

Did the OP make the instructor aware of his elbow problems he posted here;

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055891215

hiya, thanks for posting that. the tennis elbow was on the other arm and no longer an issue at this time, and as you see from the thread i got it while boxing, something i am also new to. my body is obviously not as young and flexible as it might once have been, and getting into new sports it taking it's toll, the tennis elbow and more recently the shoulder/bicep pain. i'm picking up these injuries due to my own doing and going hard at it. the reason for the initial post is not to say principally that i hurt myself, more to ask if this is something that is common. yeah it was my fault i was hurt as i never eased up when asked to, but as a newbie on first night, i felt the lock move could have been left even til the next session when i had settled in a bit more.


ps. bicep/shoulder pain happened last night. i'm falling apart here


thanks for all the advice and responses.

FruitLover

Stupid and irresponsible action by the instructor. While IMO experiencing the receiving end of a good lock (or other technique) is important, I don't think anyone could legitimately argue that having people literally screaming in pain is smart (particularly beginners).

me_right_one

Mercy is for the weak:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2zJptvGCPQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8lUt0Ile00&feature=related

Bujinkan

Thanks for posting lubo_moravcik. Something that might clear this up a little for everyone here is do you believe that there was malice or ill intent when the instructor demonstrated the lock on you??? Because it is quite a different thing for a lock to be demonastrated for the purpose of showing the lock and what it will do, verses someone going out to snap your wrist because it makes them feel better. Also from personal experiance, when I run the beginners class at my Dojo one basic lock is shown in the class. It is part of the syllibus I teach at my club, and that is why potential students are made watch a class first. Did you know what you where getting into when you started, did the instructor give you a breakdown of what you where going to learn???
With any good club communication is key between student and instructor. Feedback to the instructor about what is good and what is bad is key in developing a better experiance. There is an old saying "you don't know what you don't know". So why don't you give some feedback and tell us the outcome? EVERY single style has it's own way of teaching the material of its art. Some styles are harder and look for more from the first class, other styles leave the harder stuff 'till later. It dosen't make it right or wrong.....just different!

With respect!!

lubo_moravcik

Bujinkan wrote: »

Thanks for posting lubo_moravcik. Something that might clear this up a little for everyone here is do you believe that there was malice or ill intent when the instructor demonstrated the lock on you??? Because it is quite a different thing for a lock to be demonastrated for the purpose of showing the lock and what it will do, verses someone going out to snap your wrist because it makes them feel better. Also from personal experiance, when I run the beginners class at my Dojo one basic lock is shown in the class. It is part of the syllibus I teach at my club, and that is why potential students are made watch a class first. Did you know what you where getting into when you started, did the instructor give you a breakdown of what you where going to learn???
With any good club communication is key between student and instructor. Feedback to the instructor about what is good and what is bad is key in developing a better experiance. There is an old saying "you don't know what you don't know". So why don't you give some feedback and tell us the outcome? EVERY single style has it's own way of teaching the material of its art. Some styles are harder and look for more from the first class, other styles leave the harder stuff 'till later. It dosen't make it right or wrong.....just different!

With respect!!

Thanks Bujinkan. At no time did I think there was ill intent, malice or anything nasty in what was done. the instructor was full of praise and encouragement and willing to listen to any questions i had. i never said that at any time through the thread either, i just think what i had learned that night until the 'lock' was sufficient. i'd have left the place buzzing, been at home rolling about and practising all i had learned and eager to come back for more, no doubt asking to learn locks.
the basic lock you say is taught to beginners, is it brought in on the first night and tried out on them or is it brought in throughout the beginners course??
the instructor/main man gave a good insight into what would be involved in the class, i just wasn't prepared to be hurt on the first night when it seemed like it was basics we were learning.

Bujinkan

Hi again lubo_moravcik, and thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts on the instructor. He certainly does not sound like the "bully" that so many are willing to label him. The lock you asked about thought in most Bujinkan Dojo's (I cannot speak for them all, just my own!) and thought in my club to beginners is usually a lock called Omote Gyaku. Yes it is thought on the first night in my Dojo. I have included two clips of the lock and would like to ask which version you where shown?
I am genuinely sorry that you got hurt, this could have been nothing more than a genuine accident. I know nearly all the senior grades in the Bujinkan in Ireland that hold instructors license to teach, and it really does not sound like this man was in any way trying to intentionally hurt you!

Here is an example of Omote Gyaku broken down as taught generally to beginners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATSzkw7cWi0

Here is an example of an advanced Omote Gyaku that most Black Belts use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go3fIa3_y1U&feature=related

I personally would be very interested to know which version you where shown if you have the time to answer?

On a side note just from this conversation, it is very interesting to note that you would have been happy with what you learned up until that point. I may well reveiw my own beginners course to move the locks to the second or third class. Like I said if you don't get feedback on material, there is no way to change and improve the experiance for beginners.

Again with respect!

yomchi

Bujinkan wrote: »

Yomchi with the greatest of respect you are not aware of the Bujinkan beginners training syllibus. In my club we teach Locks, throws, Breakfalls and striking drills from the first class. Every student is made watch a class so that they know "exactly" what will be required of them if they decide to train. I'm not taking up for anyone here. This could be a total misunderstanding. If it is not he needs to inform the senior instructor so that this does not happen again! I can remember doing Judo a long time ago (nearly 30 years ago) and the first time I was thrown I hurt myself. There was no malice in the throw, I just tensed and landed bad. No one wants a bully in their club, thats why this needs to be brought to the proper instructors attention!

There is no questions being raised on my end about the Bujinkan syllabus or technique, I'm sure it is just fine for beginners.
The problem post was about some idiot instructor who decided he'd near snap a beginners wrist showing a lock. I could show a beginner a lock without having them scream out in pain and so could anyone but they would know that if it were applied with force it would hurt.
The syllabus is not being called into question in this thread.

Ug Lee

In the case of a beginner, whenever a lock is applied, it should be done slowly and the person applying it should be aware of the other person's discomfort. They should not wait for the person to cry out in pain or even tap.

Only when the other person knows how to fall/flip out of it should the lock be applied through the full range of motion.

Tim_Murphy

At the end of the day, the smart advise would be to stop going to somewhere where people are getting hurt messing around with silly wrist locks and go back doing Judo or something of the like.

Sitric

I have a messed up cervical vertebra and clavicle from being head planted by a black belt at a judo class when I was a white belt. A friend of mine (huge guy) took one judo class, the instructor arm locked him viciously in nagekomi randori, his elbow was messed up for about 6 months and he never went back.

It shouldn´t happen but it does and you really can hurt someone quite badly. At the end of the day, we all have to be able to get out of bed and go to work the next day!

Ug Lee

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

At the end of the day, the smart advise would be to stop going to somewhere where people are getting hurt messing around with silly wrist locks and go back doing Judo or something of the like.

While there is a good argument for doing Judo and "the like" rather than wrist locks etc, this is not the point. As Sitric said, even in Judo you can have someone slam on locks, submissions, etc. The point is to do the movements carefully to minimize the risk of injury. Only when the student becomes more proficient can the locks be done at a greater intensity. The ultimate resonsibility for a safe environment is with the instructor. If the students does not agree with this then they should be asked to leave.

Two of my students a few years ago were lashing into each other. While I really liked the guys I told them that if they kept it up they could go home. They stopped immediately and one still trains with me and is a great student. The other stopped for different reasons.

However I did a few classes of Aikido a few years ago and the instructor seemed intent on making me wince with pain. I really feel he was trying to make a point.

However it is hard job teaching martial arts at times. Go too easy and some students think you are a puppy. (Substitute the pp with ss.) Go too hard and they think you are a psyco. And some people just need feel some pain for them to appreciate what you are trying to teach them.

corkma

If it's you're first class, the instructor should assume you have never been put in lock. if thats the case you don't how to react, of course you're going to tense and get hurt. any locks should be done slowly and in a way that you can feel pressure long before anything is strained. If it's a particular technique thats harder to apply gently, then it shouldnt be demonstrated on the newbie

lubo_moravcik

Bujinkan wrote: »

Hi again lubo_moravcik, and thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts on the instructor. He certainly does not sound like the "bully" that so many are willing to label him. The lock you asked about thought in most Bujinkan Dojo's (I cannot speak for them all, just my own!) and thought in my club to beginners is usually a lock called Omote Gyaku. Yes it is thought on the first night in my Dojo. I have included two clips of the lock and would like to ask which version you where shown?
I am genuinely sorry that you got hurt, this could have been nothing more than a genuine accident. I know nearly all the senior grades in the Bujinkan in Ireland that hold instructors license to teach, and it really does not sound like this man was in any way trying to intentionally hurt you!

Here is an example of Omote Gyaku broken down as taught generally to beginners
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATSzkw7cWi0

Here is an example of an advanced Omote Gyaku that most Black Belts use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go3fIa3_y1U&feature=related

I personally would be very interested to know which version you where shown if you have the time to answer?

On a side note just from this conversation, it is very interesting to note that you would have been happy with what you learned up until that point. I may well reveiw my own beginners course to move the locks to the second or third class. Like I said if you don't get feedback on material, there is no way to change and improve the experiance for beginners.

Again with respect!

the first clip was the one, but with none of the ease that it shows there. it was more a case of 'put your hand up and the instructor holding it, stepping in towards me, causing my arm to twist and me fall'. sounds so simple, it was like the last 5 seconds of the clip if you know what i mean. my tense arm due to seeing the other lad being thrown and yelping in pain obviously never helped. in all honesty i found it quite a cool move and would have loved learning it, i just felt it was a bit much for me to begin with after 'only' learning rolls and throws.
i don't doubt you have a successful club and wouldn't go changing the beginners class due to one story you hear on the internet if everyone in the club went through the lock and throw on first night. why fix it if it aint broke kind of thing

arybvtcw0eolkf

Sitric wrote: »

I have a messed up cervical vertebra and clavicle from being head planted by a black belt at a judo class when I was a white belt. A friend of mine (huge guy) took one judo class, the instructor arm locked him viciously in nagekomi randori, his elbow was messed up for about 6 months and he never went back.

It shouldn´t happen but it does and you really can hurt someone quite badly. At the end of the day, we all have to be able to get out of bed and go to work the next day!

I'm almost embarressed to say it not only happen's with bad BB's, but something similar happened in a club only Tuesday night.

A member from the forum here was interested in taking up Judo, so I invited him to come train with us in one of the clubs I use.

I informed him it was soft, easy Judo and somewhere one could train without the risk of being hurt..

It wasn't a BB who's ego got to him, but an orange belt. Our boards member was introduced to the class as a complete newbie. I even brought a spare Judogi for him to get a feel for the class.

During uchikomi (training technique WITHOUT the throw, basically learning to break balance, practice your entry etc) the orange belt decided it would be a good idea to dump our friend with Harai Goshi (hip throw).

Of course he was taken to task straight off.

Back there last night, and our newbie friend never showed up. So because of a rush of sh*t to the head we've probably lost at least two members (he brought a friend) and more when word gets out.

And funnily enough, I was telling our friend I hated training with beginners as the risk of injury to me was high - I ended up in Beaumont Hospital, on crutches and out of training for six weeks now

Ug Lee

I heard that in Informed Peformance, if you injure your training partner then you are not allowed to train for the amount of time that your partner is out of action. Sounds sensible!

Accidents can happen but I normally find you can tell when an accident is waiting to happen due to the bad training attitude of a student. So it is better to nip it in the bud and tell the person not to come back if they are taking the piss with little things.

Zen65

Ug Lee wrote: »

I heard that in Informed Peformance, if you injure your training partner then you are not allowed to train for the amount of time that your partner is out of action. Sounds sensible!

Accidents can happen but I normally find you can tell when an accident is waiting to happen due to the bad training attitude of a student. So it is better to nip it in the bud and tell the person not to come back if they are taking the piss with little things.

In one club where I trained a junior grade was "asked" to leave the club because he was regularly being injured as a result of his own refusal to obey the instructors & senior grades. During slow practice sessions with seniors he used to lash out full speed & power (I think he wanted to be able to say he'd decked a bb), and the seniors instinctively reacted by blocking hard - leaving him with bad bruising.

Cheers,

Z.

Bujinkan

Hi again, so like everyone I'm going to a BBQ so I'll make this quick. If the first version of the lock was shown then that would be in guidelines of what is appropriate for beginners, as well as asking them to keep the arm relaxed so as to minimise pain, discomfort or cause injury. Again it is a contact martial art which must always be taken into consideration. But as I was not there that is as far as I can comment!

I still think your "grivance" is best sorted by taking it up with the head instructor. It has been my long experiance that Shidoshi in the Bujinkan will go to great lenghts to stand up for everyone's rights, beginners and seniors alike.....I know I would!!!
If not may I wish you the best in whatever training you decide to partake in.....now like all healty martial artists I'm off for a burger and a cold one, have a good weekend everyone!!!:D

iceage

Bar the usual bumps bruises and injuries over the while, one of the two worst injuries I incurred over the years was in the very early days with a friend that I started with in a simple throw I landed on my ribs across his knee(all my body weight behind it) badly bruised ribs that laid me up for a couple of days. A complete accident and in no way his fault, if anything it was mine in a poor roll.

I've seen a few dingers in my time, but the nature of the art carrys with it the chance of injury, we all know this and anyone who wanders into a hall or Dojo needs to be politely told this and to prepare themselves or be trained to do so. I'm not for a second condoning the earlier mentioned incident, far from it..it should not have happened in the first place but it is a Martial Art for a reason and I'm not going to get into the whole Sport/Art/Do thing.. I haven't the time for that.

The most alarming and disconcerting sight for the beginner is when a so called belt or rank causes it. As someone mentioned above..thats the last you'll see of that beginner..and his/her friend.. and their friends. Not the way to introduce to Martial Arts.

Martin25

Beginners should be treated gently and taught safety first.
My first time at the opening of an new club supporting my Instructor,he had me spar and hurt the new people a bit, which I now would never do, but that was back in the olden days!