Israel attacks Aid Flotilla. At least 2 dead

paulaa

Israel has attacked the Humanitarian Aid Flotilla to Gaza in International waters , at least 2 dead and many injured.
It's being reported that Israeli commandos landed on the Turkish ship, MV MAVI MARA, from helicopters and used gas and live ammunition.

http://chicago.indymedia.org/newswire/display/90608/index.php

According to Israeli media 10 have died and over 60 are injured

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/report-at-least-10-activists-killed-as-israel-navy-opens-fire-on-gaza-aid-flotilla-1.293089

EuskalHerria

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055925835

Reported number of dead is now 16 apparently and also word that the Israeli embassy in Istanbul has been stormed by those angered at the news.

paulaa

EuskalHerria wrote: »

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2055925835

Reported number of dead is now 16 apparently and also word that the Israeli embassy in Istanbul has been stormed by those angered at the news.

Sorry I didn't see your thread. France 24 has said that casualty numbers are rising and at least 20 volunteers are now dead

halkar

This is sick. Hope MV Rachel Corrie is alright around there.

Israel should be thrown out of UN with sanction by every country in the world. Let them have the taste of their own medicine :mad:

digme

These people are animals.How in gods name can they do this.I hope something is done about this.

Memnoch

The oppressed become oppressor (in fairness this happened a long time ago). The sad truth of Israel is how little they've learned from their own history. They rightly deserve the condemnation of the world. I personally will be boycotting any products made in Israel.

Nijmegen

I commented in AH, also here: firstly, it's not yet clear what happened. Israelis report having being attacked, and I could see some truth to that, so we will have to see what happens there.

Secondly, Hamas are also "animals" - they murdered their elected counterparts in Gaza and have been dropping rockets on Israel. Go live nearby to that border and Israeli foreign policy makes more sense.

There is no good guy in this, and if I were Israel I'd have done this differently. But these protestors were delivering a terrorist organization a huge victory as well as aid to civilians.

digme

Nijmegen wrote: »

I commented in AH, also here: firstly, it's not yet clear what happened. Israelis report having being attacked, and I could see some truth to that, so we will have to see what happens there.

Secondly, Hamas are also "animals" - they murdered their elected counterparts in Gaza and have been dropping rockets on Israel. Go live nearby to that border and Israeli foreign policy makes more sense.

There is no good guy in this, and if I were Israel I'd have done this differently. But these protestors were delivering a terrorist organization a huge victory as well as aid to civilians.

Hey are you listening at all?The boats are not in isreali waters, they are civilians on a boat in international waters.Today people are after getting murdered .

Zulu

Yes, the commandos were attacked by blood thirsty aid workers. Those poor commandos were lucky to get out alive to be honest.

Deep Easterly

digme wrote: »

These people are animals.How in gods name can they do this.I hope something is done about this.

Nothing will be done, well, maybe a token slap in the backside by the US and the UN. :mad:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Memnoch wrote: »

I personally will be boycotting any products made in Israel.

Hello, good morning.. Like erm, Israeli Potatos?. See Sig...

You know the processor in your computer was likely designed by an Israeli, or the SMS messages you'll send today condemning Israel was developed by Israeli's - in Israel?.

Nijmegen

digme wrote: »

Hey are you listening at all?The boats are not in isreali waters, they are civilians on a boat in international waters.Today people are after getting murdered .

They were ships with an intent to run a blockade, wait till they're inshore and it's too late. Plus, you come in range of the guns of the peace loving Hamas.

digme

Well what happens if they murdered an Irish person today?What do we do?Kick out a diplomat for a week?There are many Irish people in that aid convoy.

P. Breathnach

Lailah Black Rabbit wrote: »

... You know the processor in your computer was likely designed by an Israeli, or the SMS messages you'll send today condemning Israel was developed by Israeli's - in Israel?.

Does that legitimise killing humanitarian aid volunteers?

digme

Nijmegen wrote: »

They were ships with an intent to run a blockade, wait till they're inshore and it's too late. Plus, you come in range of the guns of the peace loving Hamas.

Intent in international waters?Are you listening to yourself at all?So you murder the civilians before they get to your so called waters is it?Today people got butchered,it's a sick crime.

paulaa

Nijmegen wrote: »

I commented in AH, also here: firstly, it's not yet clear what happened. Israelis report having being attacked, and I could see some truth to that, so we will have to see what happens there.

Secondly, Hamas are also "animals" - they murdered their elected counterparts in Gaza and have been dropping rockets on Israel. Go live nearby to that border and Israeli foreign policy makes more sense.

There is no good guy in this, and if I were Israel I'd have done this differently. But these protestors were delivering a terrorist organization a huge victory as well as aid to civilians.

The "attacked" Israelis were heavily armed commandos who had boarded the ship from helicopters in international waters. Seeing the videos from the ship, they opened fire with gas and live ammunition on unarmed civilians. No amount of spin will put Israel in a good light after this. They have finally exposed themselves for the arrogant rogue state that they have become.

As to hamas "also being animals", are you saying that the "Democratic State of Israel" is no better than "terrorists" ?
I would agree with that and it still doesn't excuse this cold blooded massacre of civilians

Memnoch

Lailah Black Rabbit wrote: »

Hello, good morning.. Like erm, Israeli Potatos?. See Sig...

You know the processor in your computer was likely designed by an Israeli, or the SMS messages you'll send today condemning Israel was developed by Israeli's - in Israel?.

I will be checking any products I buy. If it says, "Made in Israel," I will not buy it.

Nijmegen

digme wrote: »

Intent in international waters?Are you listening to yourself at all?So you murder the civilians before they get to your so called waters is it?Today people got butchered,it's a sick crime.

I don't think these people had made any secret of their intent?

We need to wait to hear what happened on those ships for sure. If Israeli troops were attacked upon boarding, it is a different matter. Let's not forger, as I read in ah, that sky news reported the Dail being stormed a few weeks back. Let's wait and see.

Hamas is being blockaded by Israel and Egypt. They shell Israel regularly. They are at war, and anyone trying to run that blockade will be stopped.

Deep Easterly

Nijmegen wrote: »

I commented in AH, also here: firstly, it's not yet clear what happened. Israelis report having being attacked, and I could see some truth to that, so we will have to see what happens there.

Secondly, Hamas are also "animals" - they murdered their elected counterparts in Gaza and have been dropping rockets on Israel. Go live nearby to that border and Israeli foreign policy makes more sense.

There is no good guy in this, and if I were Israel I'd have done this differently. But these protestors were delivering a terrorist organization a huge victory as well as aid to civilians.

How the hell can you justify this?

"but these protesters were delivering a terrorist organiszation a huge victiory".

There is no bigger terrorist organistaion than the Isreali military. This attack against humanitarian workers is further evidence of that. You need to take your head out of the sand.

digme

They are trying to spin this already by inserting into the news that they were attached with axes while trying to get onto someone else's boat in international waters,so they can do as they please with you.

digme

Nijmegen wrote: »

I don't think these people had made any secret of their intent?

We need to wait to hear what happened on those ships for sure. If Israeli troops were attacked upon boarding, it is a different matter. Let's not forger, as I read in ah, that sky news reported the Dail being stormed a few weeks back. Let's wait and see.

Hamas is being blockaded by Israel and Egypt. They shell Israel regularly. They are at war, and anyone trying to run that blockade will be stopped.

So you think the aid convoy opened fire on the isreali commandos so is it?
Now i know your just having a laugh.

Nijmegen

Deep Easterly wrote: »

How the hell can you justify this?

"but these protesters were delivering a terrorist organiszation a huge victiory".

There is no bigger terrorist organistaion than the Isreali military. This attack against humanitarian workers is further evidence of that. You need to take your head out of the sand.

Hamas shells innocent Israelis on a regular basis. What the hell is Israel supposed to do, let them do whatever? They're at war.

arybvtcw0eolkf

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Does that legitimise killing humanitarian aid volunteers?

You know thats not what I'm saying.

I just laugh when people go on about boycotting Israeli products, when the same people won't boycott Eygptian products despite the fact Egypt imposes similiar, no in fact worse security measures against the people of Gaza.

One question, why do Gazans choose treatment in Israeli hospitals (and get their appointments) and not Egyptian hospitals?.. Would it be because they're denied equal treatment by their Arab neighbours?.

Lets boycott Egypt while we're at it too if thats the case..

Nijmegen

digme wrote: »

So you think the aid convoy opened fire on the isreali commandos so is it?
Now i know your just having a laugh.

And you know, for a fact, exactly what happened do you?

digme

I know what didn't happen.I also see how you are controlling around 10 peoples energy on this issue with your funny postings.

Memnoch

Lailah Black Rabbit wrote: »

You know thats not what I'm saying.

I just laugh when people go on about boycotting Israeli products, when the same people won't boycott Eygptian products despite the fact Egypt imposes similiar, no in fact worse security measures against the people of Gaza.

One question, why do Gazans choose treatment in Israeli hospitals (and get their appointments) and not Egyptian hospitals?.. Would it be because they're denied equal treatment by their Arab neighbours?.

Lets boycott Egypt while we're at it too if thats the case..

Wait, when was the last time the Egyptians shot up a boat filled with aid workers providing aid to refugees? Or for that matter, when did Egypt stop aid from reaching innocent people?

I'm really not interested in turning this into a debate on Israel vs Egypt. You can laugh all you like, doesn't change what the Israelis have done or continue to do.

Deep Easterly

Nijmegen wrote: »

Hamas shells innocent Israelis on a regular basis. What the hell is Israel supposed to do, let them do whatever? They're at war.

Oh, so the Isreeli's are at war, yet when the Palistinians defend themselves, they are labled as terrorists. Such utter crap.

Memnoch

digme wrote: »

I know what didn't happen.I also see how you are controlling around 10 peoples energy on this issue with your funny postings.

There will always be deniers and people who will try to derail the issue by defending criminal regimes. I'm going to be ignoring them henceforth.

The fact is that the aid ships we're checked by international organisations before departing for Gaza to make sure there were no weapons on board, precisely so that the Israeli's couldn't use the excuse of provocation.

It's a beautiful circle. Israel murders journalists and prevents journalists from reporting on it's crimes. People who then defend Israel use this to claim ambiguity in their actions, typical spin and disinformation and it's all nonsense really.

yoshytoshy

I hope obama comes out against this ,if not then there is more than one coward involved in this.

Nijmegen

Memnoch, and others, if you feel tha ignoring opposing viewpoints is the best solution, I'd suggest a public forum is not the best place to be.

digme

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I hope obama comes out against this ,if not then there is more than one coward involved in this.

osama you mean? oh sorry he's the good guy who invades countries,oh wait,actually,obama ?He will be a good little girl and speak of the horrors etc on the news and then use his veto to assist isreal with their crimes against humanity, just like they always do.

Deep Easterly

Nijmegen wrote: »

Memnoch, and others, if you feel tha ignoring opposing viewpoints is the best solution, I'd suggest a public forum is not the best place to be.

Only person ignoring "opposing viewpoints" is yourself sir.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Memnoch wrote: »

I'm really not interested in turning this into a debate on Israel vs Egypt. .

Why, because you find it easier to believe the Israeli's are always in the wrong?.

Imagine allowing unfettered aid into your enemies hands!, only a fool would do that, and Israel is no one's fool.

I'll refer you back to Col.Kemps address to a UN emergency session after the 2006 Gaza conflict and what he says about aid reaching the Palestinians, and other cool stuff.

Memnoch

Nijmegen wrote: »

Memnoch, and others, if you feel tha ignoring opposing viewpoints is the best solution, I'd suggest a public forum is not the best place to be.

Every criminal action, act of oppression, genocide, perversion of human rights in history has had its proponents, deniers and defenders. I have no interest in the viewpoints of those who try to justify the murder of the innocents through what is blatently deliberate obfuscation.

The suggestion that unarmed aid workers from international organisations attacked a fully equipped and armed military force well known for their criminal disregard for human life and provoked them into murdering said workers is so utterly ludicrous that I can't help but conclude that anyone making such an assertion falls into the above category.

Nijmegen

Deep Easterly wrote: »

Only person ignoring "opposing viewpoints" is yourself sir.

I'm involved in discussion of points. I was referring to people saying they will ignore any opposing viewpoints.

Deep Easterly

Memnoch wrote: »

There will always be deniers and people who will try to derail the issue by defending criminal regimes. I'm going to be ignoring them henceforth.

The fact is that the aid ships we're checked by international organisations before departing for Gaza to make sure there were no weapons on board, precisely so that the Israeli's couldn't use the excuse of provocation.

It's a beautiful circle. Israel murders journalists and prevents journalists from reporting on it's crimes. People who then defend Israel use this to claim ambiguity in their actions, typical spin and disinformation and it's all nonsense really.

You'll be comforted to know then that the Isreal military will be issuing a report on this 'incident' soon.

jimi_t2

Right, I'm neither Pro nor Against Israel/Palestine. I'm just relaying the facts as I see them.

10,000 tonnes of a convoy, some flying the flags of an Islamist state not known for its light-handedness, approached a military blockade despite repeated warnings.

Similar convoys had been there before, and had been refused, so they knew what they were in for.

The territory they were headed for was controlled by an Islamist extremist group known for suicide bombings and firing rockets into the suburbs of their neighbouring territories.

The flotilla was boarded (presumably) after they refused to stop going towards the blockade with a lot of very opinionated and presumably vocal people who described themselves as ''Pro-Palestinian activists'' hanging off said boats.

Seriously, you don't see MSF or the Red Cross trying to run a military blockade flying the flags of other countries, and for bloody good reason. It's provocative and accidents can happen.

Especially since they were WARNED that this would be the case.

Fair enough, the warning may have been illegal or immoral, but this, to me, seems to be effective martyrdom.

I'm all up for having holes poked in my argument, so please work away; just don't be obsequious about it.

yoshytoshy

If this aid was destined for isreal ,would this have happened ?

paulaa

Nijmegen wrote: »

Hamas shells innocent Israelis on a regular basis. What the hell is Israel supposed to do, let them do whatever? They're at war.

How many Israelis have been killed by the pathetic rockets fired from Gaza in protest at the inhuman conditions Israel has imposed on them ? How many women and children have Israel killed in Gaza and the West Bank ?

no building materials allowed in to let these people rebuild the homes that Israel bombed to oblivion during the infamous Cast Lead attack, Thousands are still living in tents !!!
Limited medical supplies, no paper, school books, crayons, chocolate, and thousands of other items, all banned from Gaza for the sake of Israel's "security". Collective punishment is against all International Laws.

Stop the seige and give these people some hope . All Israel is doing is creating another generation of radicalized youngsters who have seen their families wiped out, who have no freedoms and no future.

Israel doesn't want peace, it would cost them too much in financial support, loan guarantees etc and they would have to stop stealing land and stick to their own borders.

Zulu

Folks, why are you intent on side tracking this? Why can't you accept what happened?

Today Isreali commandos stormed an aid ship in international waters, and slaughtered civilians aboard.

Thats what happened.

digme

Zulu wrote: »

Folks, why are you intent on side tracking this? Why can't you accept what happened?

Today Isreali commandos stormed an aid ship in international waters, and slaughtered civilians aboard.

Thats what happened.

Yes your right and i'm finished as I kind of feel there's nothing else to say on this for now.

Nijmegen

Zulu wrote: »

Folks, why are you intent on side tracking this? Why can't you accept what happened?

Today Isreali commandos stormed an aid ship in international waters, and slaughtered civilians aboard.

Thats what happened.

The folks running this blockade were out to provoke Israel. It was suicide by cop, as another poster has said. Certainly, it could be seen that way, though we need to see what happened on the ship.

Zulu

Nijmegen wrote: »

The folks running this blockade..

...only in international waters they hadn't run any blockade, so it isn't "suicude by cop" it's "crooked cop killing unarmed innocent civilian".

arybvtcw0eolkf

paulaa wrote: »

How many Israelis have been killed by the pathetic rockets fired from Gaza in protest at the inhuman conditions Israel has imposed on them ? How many women and children have Israel killed in Gaza and the West Bank ?

no building materials allowed in to let these people rebuild the homes that Israel bombed to oblivion during the infamous Cast Lead attack, Thousands are still living in tents !!!
Limited medical supplies, no paper, school books, crayons, chocolate, and thousands of other items, all banned from Gaza for the sake of Israel's "security". Collective punishment is against all International Laws.

Stop the seige and give these people some hope . All Israel is doing is creating another generation of radicalized youngsters who have seen their families wiped out, who have no freedoms and no future.

Israel doesn't want peace, it would cost them too much in financial support, loan guarantees etc and they would have to stop stealing land and stick to their own borders.

Lets say all thats true, and that I agree with you (not in a million years btw).. But lets pretend... so beggars the question, why doesn't Egypt open its borders and allow aid through?. (I'm going to make the assumption you'll blaim either Israel or the American government on this one, but go ahead all the same).

Nijmegen

Zulu wrote: »

...only in international waters they hadn't run any blockade, so they were killed for intent which isn't "suicude by cop" it's "crooked cop killing innocent civilian".

As already said, trying to stop it closer in becomes even more dangerous. I wouldn't fly a helicopter in range of Hamas coastline. If they shot one down it'd be a bigger battle.

FlutterinBantam

Zulu wrote: »

Folks, why are you intent on side tracking this? Why can't you accept what happened?

Today Isreali commandos stormed an aid ship in international waters, and slaughtered civilians aboard.

Thats what happened.

Most intelligent people will wait to hear the reports which will be out shortly as to what happened.

Jumping to such definite conclusions from 2000 kms away,I would assume, is asinine in the extreme.

The flotilla got plenty of warning and decided to proceed.

I do not know what exactly happened and am prepared to wait for more definite reports before making a considered judgment.


I would urge the less informed amongst us to do the same.

danbohan

Nijmegen wrote: »

The folks running this blockade were out to provoke Israel. It was suicide by cop, as another poster has said. Certainly, it could be seen that way, though we need to see what happened on the ship.[/Q

anybody that knows anything about Israel knows exactly what happened on the ship , they are the child of the mafia don and can do as they please , its time the rest of the world pointed out to usa and israel that they are the real axis of evil

Byron85

Nijmegen wrote: »

The folks running this blockade were out to provoke Israel. It was suicide by cop, as another poster has said. Certainly, it could be seen that way, though we need to see what happened on the ship.

Next time I give some money to a homeless person i'll be sure you're not around so that I don't unwittingly provoke you.

Pull the other one.

The simple fact is that 10,000 tonnes of aid was being delivered and Israel has acted with cold calculating impunity and killed civilians of different nationalities in international waters. Israel sent in commandos. Not the coast guard. They were being resisted with sticks, according to Israeli media reports, and they responded with sub machine gun fire.

Suicide by cop? I'll say it once again. INTERNATIONAL WATERS.

Dress it up all you want but Israel has now hung itself out to dry due to its sheer arrogance.

Zulu

Nijmegen wrote: »

As already said, trying to stop it closer in becomes even more dangerous. I wouldn't fly a helicopter in range of Hamas ...

Range from what exactly? Are you suggesting that Hamas have AAA or SAM's that only have a maximum range of Israeli territorial waters?


Because that would be incredibly convenient. Also in the unlikly event that that is in fact the case - it still doens't justify killing civilians in international waters.

paulaa

Nijmegen wrote: »

The folks running this blockade were out to provoke Israel. It was suicide by cop, as another poster has said. Certainly, it could be seen that way, though we need to see what happened on the ship.

It has been on TV since 4.30 this morning. Some of us have seen what happened live. The trigger happy cowboys of Israel opened fire against unarmed civilian humanitarian aid volunteers in International waters where they had no business being anyway.

Anything that Israel doesn't like is "provoking" it. Israel is wrong and has acted no better than Somali pirates.

My sympathies go to the families of those murdered, simply because they were trying to bring attention to the inhuman conditions Gazans have been forced to live in and bring some small bit of relief , medical supplies, toys, water purifiers etc to these people.

northwest100

FlutterinBantam wrote:

The flotilla got plenty of warning and decided to proceed.

well, in that case, they deserved to die.

you see the narcissistic nature of israel and its supporters?
they can do no wrong...no matter what.