Chin-ups

Name Changed

Quick question......

I cannot do one single chin-up. I'm fairly fit, but cannot manage any and in fact, I've never been able to do one or even close to it even when I was super fit.

I need to be able to do ten for a specific thing that I am going for.

Are there any exercises you can do to build up the specific muscles that would help me do chin-ups? In other words, what exercises can I do to make me better at chin-ups without actually doing chin-ups?

Danger781

I'm no expert; Not even close.

But I think I'd be safe in assuming that you are lacking in upper body strength. Start working on your biceps and triceps to help build muscle in your arms. If you're near a gym, have an instructor help you out and perhaps assign you some workouts.

Name Changed

I do a fair bit of work on my arms but I'd be more into cardio stuff. Even when doing weights, I've never got close to being able to do one chin-up! Sad.

skelliser

Ya i would like so advice here as well, i cant do a single chin up either.
Im not over weight just lack the upper body strength for them.

Alkers

You can start from the 'up' position and lower yourself as slowly as you can, should work the same muscles as needed to get you back up

Danger781

Unfortunately Pull-ups & Chin-ups are hard. Very hard. You'll need a proper technique to do them. Chin ups are easier to do than pull ups though. It's not your body weight that's the problem. It's not having enough upper body strength.

Here this seems like a pretty good article:
http://stronglifts.com/how-to-do-pull-ups-and-chin-ups-with-proper-technique/

1ceman

That is a good (and extensive!) article on both chinups and pullups.

Last October when I got a personal trainer, I could do about 2 chinups.
In my program I had 4x6 chinups and I just started off doing as many as I could and then I'd do negatives for the rest (jump up, lower yourself down). Week by week I saw improvement and pretty quickly I was doing chinups for the full 4sets of 6reps. I then eventually graduated to doing pullups.

Note that I did (and still do) kipping pullups as I'm usually going high reps.

Those more experienced can probably find flaws in my technique but yesterday I did a total of 120 pullups in my workout and I'm quite happy with that!

BossArky

Name Changed wrote: »

Quick question......

I cannot do one single chin-up. I'm fairly fit, but cannot manage any and in fact, I've never been able to do one or even close to it even when I was super fit.

I need to be able to do ten for a specific thing that I am going for.

Are there any exercises you can do to build up the specific muscles that would help me do chin-ups? In other words, what exercises can I do to make me better at chin-ups without actually doing chin-ups?

What is your bodyweight / height? If you are "fairly fit" I'm guessing excess bodyweight / fat is not the issue.

Back when I started going to a gym I would superset lat pulldowns with bench (as they were some of the few pieces of equipment available). At some stage I must have tried pull ups and found I could do them.

Some people will tell you that lat pull down and pull ups/chins are totally different: one being open chain, the other closed. However, lat pull downs helped me when I was starting out.

Also, try negatives (stand on a chair) and lower yourself down, or get a rubber band to try assisted reps.

edit - what is the 10 rep test for anyway? I thought Gladiators try-outs were around Oct?

d'Oracle

Name Changed wrote: »

Quick question......

I cannot do one single chin-up. I'm fairly fit, but cannot manage any and in fact, I've never been able to do one or even close to it even when I was super fit.

I need to be able to do ten for a specific thing that I am going for.

Are there any exercises you can do to build up the specific muscles that would help me do chin-ups? In other words, what exercises can I do to make me better at chin-ups without actually doing chin-ups?

If you are under about 95Kg you could pick up a doorway pullup bar set it up somewhere you pass regularly during the day and do 2 or 3 negative pullups every time you pass. i.e. Grab the bar, hop up so your chin is over the bar and lower yourself as slowly as possible. Then just make sure to test a pullup/chin every other day or so. Worked relatively quickly for me.

Once I got 3 unbroken I started the Armstrong pullup programme:
http://www.4mcd.usmc.mil/AOP/OSOHyattsville/Armstrong%20Pullup%20Program.htm (WFS)
To boost your volume.

Alternatively bands or something should work, but that would involve having bands. I didn't have much success with the Lat Pull down but I have been told it works.

Tricep exercises are right out.

BrianD3

When you say you "can't do a chinup" what happens when you try? For example, do you fail at or close to the bottom? Or do you get 1/2 or 3/4 of the way up but can't go any higher?

edit:

BossArky wrote:

What is your bodyweight / height? If you are "fairly fit" I'm guessing excess bodyweight / fat is not the issue.

I just looked at some of his other posts and apparently he's 14 stone @ 5 ft 11 with a belly and man boobs. In that case it's not surprising that he's having some difficulty with the chinups

conor678

Hi,
I had the same problem as you OP but then I got my self a door way chin up for Argos and did 1 or 2 whenever I passed the door and slowly increased it from there.
Alternatively i really recommend using a chair to help you as in the negative chin ups. Takes time but they really improve your strength and body shape.
Keep at it!

Name Changed

BrianD3 wrote: »

When you say you "can't do a chinup" what happens when you try? For example, do you fail at or close to the bottom? Or do you get 1/2 or 3/4 of the way up but can't go any higher?

I can pull myself up about a foot and then I can't go any further.

edit:

BrianD3 wrote: »

I just looked at some of his other posts and apparently he's 14 stone @ 5 ft 11 with a belly and man boobs. In that case it's not surprising that he's having some difficulty with the chinups

Small belly, small amount of fat on the chest. I'm training every day so that'll be gone within a month. I've never been able to do one chin-up, even when I was at my fittest.

Name Changed

BossArky wrote: »

What is your bodyweight / height? If you are "fairly fit" I'm guessing excess bodyweight / fat is not the issue.

Back when I started going to a gym I would superset lat pulldowns with bench (as they were some of the few pieces of equipment available). At some stage I must have tried pull ups and found I could do them.

Some people will tell you that lat pull down and pull ups/chins are totally different: one being open chain, the other closed. However, lat pull downs helped me when I was starting out.

Also, try negatives (stand on a chair) and lower yourself down, or get a rubber band to try assisted reps.

edit - what is the 10 rep test for anyway? I thought Gladiators try-outs were around Oct?

I'll try that so. Thanks.

Killme00

Maybe try adding some band pullaparts and dislocates as well as scap pushups/pullups to your warmup. Band assisted pullups/chinups are a good place to start if you cant do one. Just dont be too reliant on the band and always be willing to change it for a band with less resisitance to continue improvement.

Once you get one, there will be no stopping you

TheZ

If your gym has an assisted pull up machine - use that and gradually lower the assistance. Get used to the feeling of pulling yourself up - a lot of that is confidence and feeling the feeling of doing it.

Then try and do a rep first thing every time you are in the gym on a pull up bar. swing your hips, bring your knees to your chest, whatever it takes to pull yourself up and eventually you will get there

to build up strength and get confident that you can also lift your own body weight you should also do some inverted rows on a smith machine

I think chin ups are as much about neural conditioning as strength. So it is a case of practising them as much as being strong. I don't consider myself strong but at 76kg have worked up to 6-8 reps at 25kg plus BW. I think a lot of that is just practice and liking the exercise. It is an exercise that does favour a lighter person too.

d'Oracle

TheZ wrote: »

neural conditioning

What now?

Danger781

Weight doesn't have much to do with it.

Jesse Marunde doing pull-ups at 316lbs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAUUTwoimpI

Danger781

d'Oracle wrote: »

What now?

I think he pretty much means training your mind to think 'Yes I can' instead of 'I can't do it'

d'Oracle

Danger781 wrote: »

Weight doesn't have much to do with it.

Jesse Marunde doing pull-ups at 316lbs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAUUTwoimpI

Ah come on FFS.
Weight has loads to do with it.
Its a bodyweight exercise.

OP isn't Jesse Frickin' Marunde.
The dude is clearly very strong.
Thats really unhelpful.

d'Oracle

Danger781 wrote: »

I think he pretty much means training your mind to think 'Yes I can' instead of 'I can't do it'

Doesn't work.
I tried it.

Danger781

d'Oracle wrote: »

Ah come on FFS.
Weight has loads to do with it.
Its a bodyweight exercise.

OP isn't Jesse Frickin' Marunde.
The dude is clearly very strong.
Thats really unhelpful.

I know he's not as strong as Marunde, but I'm just pointing out you can't blame it all on weight. Obviously if you're lighter it is less weight to be lifting..

d'Oracle wrote: »

Doesn't work.
I tried it.

Pssh that's not the right attitude to have! :P

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

pick up a doorway pullup bar set it up somewhere you pass regularly during the day and do 2 or 3 negative pullups every time you pass.

Once I got 3 unbroken I started the Armstrong pullup programme:
http://www.4mcd.usmc.mil/AOP/OSOHyattsville/Armstrong%20Pullup%20Program.htm (WFS)

d'Oracle wrote: »

What now?

See your post.

Danger781 wrote: »

Weight doesn't have much to do with it.

Jesse Marunde doing pull-ups at 316lbs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAUUTwoimpI

This forum gets better every day.

d'Oracle

Hanley wrote: »

See your post.

Now I'm even more confused.
I thought Strength was neural in nature.
What is the difference between neural conditioning and strength?
I thought I was just getting more of them because I was getting stronger.

Hanley

d'Oracle wrote: »

Now I'm even more confused.
I thought Strength was neural in nature.
What is the difference between neural conditioning and strength?
I thought I was just getting more of them because I was getting stronger.

Oh oh oh.. I know this game.

"What is semantics?"

d'Oracle

Ah.....I see.

Or rather I don't but I'm not sure I want to.

Transform

d'Oracle wrote: »

Ah.....I see.

Or rather I don't but I'm not sure I want to.

practice practice practice and stop doing biceps curls if you cant do chin ups - doing a chin up is wayyy more important

d'Oracle

Transform wrote: »

practice practice practice and stop doing biceps curls if you cant do chin ups - doing a chin up is wayyy more important

Oi!
I don't do bicep curls.

TheZ

Maybe it is semantics and splitting hairs but if you start off doing an exercise you haven't done before then I understood a lot of early progress is not huge increases in strength but developing neural pathways (neural conditioning) so that your body gets used to doing a certain thing.

Another issue is mentality - most people will easily jump a two metre distance laid out on the ground but make the jump over water and people start to wonder about doing it and may not make it - part of being able to do something that you physically are able to do is knowing/thinking you can do it - anybody doing their BW on a lat pulldown can do a pull up strength wise

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

Oh oh oh.. I know this game.

"What is semantics?"

mwhaaaaa

AntiVirus

d'Oracle wrote: »

Ah come on FFS.
Weight has loads to do with it.
Its a bodyweight exercise.

No it doesn't, Danger781 is correct.

When I started doing chin ups I could hardly do one, now I can do 19 with proper form but my weight has stayed the same, in fact its gone up!

d'Oracle

AntiVirus wrote: »

No it doesn't, Danger781 is correct.

When I started doing chin ups I could hardly do one, now I can do 19 with proper form but my weight has stayed the same, in fact its gone up!

Ok.
Super for you.

TheZ

http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=58038

thread on crossfit forum about this

One very clever poster says

"As an organism grows in size it's volume (and therefore weight) gets bigger much faster than the cross sectional area of it's parts (and therefore it's strength, as cross sectional area is fairly roughly equivalent to strength potential). If you want to consider it mathematically you could generally say that the volume of an organism is a cubed function (that is, a number raised to the third power) while the cross sectional area is a squared function (that is, a number raised to the second power). The cubed function will go up much faster."

Barry.Oglesby

Ridiculous.

Ask any coach who can do the most pull ups and the answer will be the lightest guys, with very, very few exceptions.

Or b), read some books and forums and form your opinion based entirely on that.

Of the great many moronic threads on the internet, this is one of them.

columok

Chin ups are indicator of your strength:weight ratio. If you have a low weight then the strength requirement is lower. If you have a high weight then the strength requirement is higher. Analogy alert: The bigger the chassis the bigger the required engine size to move that chassis.

As an organism grows in size it's volume (and therefore weight) gets bigger much faster than the cross sectional area of it's parts (and therefore it's strength, as cross sectional area is fairly roughly equivalent to strength potential). If you want to consider it mathematically you could generally say that the volume of an organism is a cubed function (that is, a number raised to the third power) while the cross sectional area is a squared function (that is, a number raised to the second power). The cubed function will go up much faster.

This seems needlessly confusing.

BrianD3

Getting back on topic the OP wants to do a pullup but is failing a foot from the bottom. Instead of doing BW partial reps up to the sticking point and not making much progress what I would do is

-negatives from the top lowering as slowly as you can to near the sticking point. Lock off at the sticking point for a couple of seconds if you can. Be careful with all of this as as an uncontrolled negative is likely to cause injury, also volume needs to kept low. I know rubadub has a lot of experience with negatives so perhaps he can advise.

-weighted partial pullups from the bottom, the idea being thet you make the lower part of the movement stronger so that you hit the sticking point with more speed when you go back to BW chinups

-assisted chins

-lose the belly

Danger781

AntiVirus wrote: »

No it doesn't, Danger781 is correct.

When I started doing chin ups I could hardly do one, now I can do 19 with proper form but my weight has stayed the same, in fact its gone up!

:rolleyes:

JJayoo

http://www.youtube.com/thedieselcrew#p/search/6/Jzts1X8l4Rk

Diesel crew vid, helpful for anyone tring to nail pullups/chinups

Mellor

Danger781 wrote: »

Weight doesn't have much to do with it.

AntiVirus wrote: »

No it doesn't, Danger781 is correct.

When I started doing chin ups I could hardly do one, now I can do 19 with proper form but my weight has stayed the same, in fact its gone up!

Hmm, maybe. Just maybe. You got stronger without getting heavier.



Are we really debating if weight comes into a pull up. It obviously does and anyone who says it doesn't clearly isn't worth discussing it with.

Strap a 20Kg plate to your legs, can you still do just as many? Why not, you are no less strong, you just weight more. :rolleyes:

AntiVirus

Mellor wrote: »

Hmm, maybe. Just maybe. You got stronger without getting heavier.



Are we really debating if weight comes into a pull up. It obviously does and anyone who says it doesn't clearly isn't worth discussing it with.

Strap a 20Kg plate to your legs, can you still do just as many? Why not, you are no less strong, you just weight more. :rolleyes:

We are talking about the OP not being able to do one chin up weighing 14 stones. Him not being able to do one is nothing about his weight but all about his strength. If he gets stronger he will be able to do chin ups at 14 stone. When talking about weight I'm assuming we are talking about body weight.

Name Changed

AntiVirus wrote: »

We are talking about the OP not being able to do one chin up weighing 14 stones. Him not being able to do one is nothing about his weight but all about his strength. If he gets stronger he will be able to do chin ups at 14 stone. When talking about weight I'm assuming we are talking about body weight.

My fitness is ok... Are there any other exercises you can do that will help improve your ability to do chin ups though? Would it be any use working more on my back or arms or chest or whatever?

Scuba Ste

Name Changed wrote: »

My fitness is ok... Are there any other exercises you can do that will help improve your ability to do chin ups though? Would it be any use working more on my back or arms or chest or whatever?

Yeah lat pulldowns and any type of row will help you get a stronger back and should carry over somewhat to chins.

d'Oracle

Name Changed wrote: »

My fitness is ok... Are there any other exercises you can do that will help improve your ability to do chin ups though? Would it be any use working more on my back or arms or chest or whatever?

There are a few and they have been outlined in the first page of this thread.
Before all the silly bull**** started.

Are you training in a gym?

AntiVirus

Name Changed wrote: »

My fitness is ok... Are there any other exercises you can do that will help improve your ability to do chin ups though? Would it be any use working more on my back or arms or chest or whatever?

A good exercise to build up to chin ups is doing inverted rows, you can do these almost anywhere without going to the gym. Check out the video in the link below and try some out later! (You can put your feet up on another chair to make them harder)

Select the "Inverted Row"
http://www.athleticintelligence.co.uk/what-we-do/how-we-do-it/fitness-training/videos.aspx

Name Changed

d'Oracle wrote: »

There are a few and they have been outlined in the first page of this thread.
Before all the silly bull**** started.

Are you training in a gym?

I get to go about 3 times per week. I'd be training most days, but with work commitments it is impossible to go to the gym every day.

Name Changed

AntiVirus wrote: »

A good exercise to build up to chin ups is doing inverted rows, you can do these almost anywhere without going to the gym. Check out the video in the link below and try some out later! (You can put your feet up on another chair to make them harder)

Select the "Inverted Row"
http://www.athleticintelligence.co.uk/what-we-do/how-we-do-it/fitness-training/videos.aspx

Will try this. Thanks,

Typhoon.

a chin up bar at home Op is the best thing... as suggested do em as you pass buy....

heres a similar thread

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/archive/index.php/t-586946.html

G86

AntiVirus wrote: »

A good exercise to build up to chin ups is doing inverted rows, you can do these almost anywhere without going to the gym. Check out the video in the link below and try some out later! (You can put your feet up on another chair to make them harder)

[/IMG]

I don't know about these, I've been doing them a good while now and can whack them out easy enough but I still can't do a chin up. OP would you try doing them with bands? I tried this a few weeks ago and I'm definitely going to get a band now so I can do them that way and try progress from there, at least you're getting used to the movement then too.

Also, this might help, it was posted on crossfit.ie a while back. http://joshsgarage.typepad.com/articles/2010/04/your-fitrst-pullup.html

GreeBo

I think they are more technique than anything else, as a teen who never did any weights etc I could do 20 chinups, not sure what I can do now but I think (assuming you are not huge) you dont need a huge amount of muscle

migozarad

The OP should do Lat Pulldowns or negative chin ups.Some-one has probably already mentioned this;just too lazy to trawl the previous pages

AntiVirus

G86 wrote: »

I don't know about these, I've been doing them a good while now and can whack them out easy enough but I still can't do a chin up.

Doing them alone will not suddenly mean you can do chin ups but it will definitely help along with lot of the other methods posters have posted.

Like the poster above me has said negatives chin ups are great and will help you get your first chin up. When your in the gym try jumping up and use your upward momentum to help you get into the up position of a chin up, then lower yourself down slowly. Keep doing this until you're lowering yourself down to fast, them move onto one of the other exercises that have been mentioned.

Good luck and make sure you let us know when you've got your first chin up!

TheZ

You could also try using a chair for negative chin ups - get on chair and go over bar and then lower yourself down slowly

also use chair for assisted chin ups (use legs and slowly move to one leg and then lean on it less and less) but be careful