W124's? Yes/no?

L-M

I'm toying with the idea of a 200e Saloon if and when the Bmw sells, would have to be black, reasonably clean, preferably auto (and No I'm not going into undertaking :P)

I've heard these are the most bullit proof of the lot, I'm just wondering if anyone has one or personal experience with them?

unkel

Well the only time I was in a car with nearly a million km on the clock it was a W124 250d - manual!

nmacc

Your average 124 is a very solid motor, but it's not miraculous. Like any other car it will rust and all of the usual stuff will break; it just takes longer on an MB and a 124 in paricular as they are built the way cars should be.

With one exception.

Beware the Achilles heel of the 124 series - the wiring.

MB have a strict policy on conductor size, plating, etc. Unfortunately on the 124 series they screwed up on the insulation. It's fine in the car in general, but it is not adequately rated to take the heat of the engine compartment. After about 150k the insulation starts to break down forward of the firewall. It becomes friable and leads to all sorts of strange running problems including, at the extreme end of the scale, blown ECUs and engine fires.

There really should have been a recall on this and in the States there was a class action. Thus over there you can buy an engine compartment loom for a 320 for around $400. Over here the same kit of two looms would cost you more than €1,000 EACH!

So, check the wires afore ye buy.

quenching

nmacc wrote: »

Your average 124 is a very solid motor, but it's not miraculous. Like any other car it will rust and all of the usual stuff will break; it just takes longer on an MB and a 124 in paricular as they are built the way cars should be.

With one exception.

Beware the Achilles heel of the 124 series - the wiring.

MB have a strict policy on conductor size, plating, etc. Unfortunately on the 124 series they screwed up on the insulation. It's fine in the car in general, but it is not adequately rated to take the heat of the engine compartment. After about 150k the insulation starts to break down forward of the firewall. It becomes friable and leads to all sorts of strange running problems including, at the extreme end of the scale, blown ECUs and engine fires.

There really should have been a recall on this and in the States there was a class action. Thus over there you can buy an engine compartment loom for a 320 for around $400. Over here the same kit of two looms would cost you more than €1,000 EACH!

So, check the wires afore ye buy.

Doesn't this only apply to the larger petrol engined cars such as E280 and E320. No too many of them in Ireland due to tax.

L-M

Thanks lads, something like this would be ideal, plus a set of monoblocks

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1324355

mike65

quenching wrote: »

Doesn't this only apply to the larger petrol engined cars such as E280 and E320. No too many of them in Ireland due to tax.

Yep, the biodegradable wiring harness issue was restricted to the 6 pots (from 1992/3 I think), ditto the less hardy paint and the greater chance the wings with rust. the Pre 1993 motors are the most solid if also a little more "fusty" in terms of styling details.

si_guru

Limerick man wrote: »

I'm toying with the idea of a 200e Saloon if and when the Bmw sells, would have to be black, reasonably clean, preferably auto (and No I'm not going into undertaking :P)

I've heard these are the most bullit proof of the lot, I'm just wondering if anyone has one or personal experience with them?

I always say that with Mercs you only ever want the Auto!

1. Manuals are rubbish
2. That foot operated parking brake sucks with a manual box - try doing a 3 point turn on a hill!

gears

Limerick man wrote: »

Thanks lads, something like this would be ideal, plus a set of monoblocks

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1324355

Just wondering about the one in this add, can the trim on the lower section of the doors be removed to reveal a painted section or would you be stuck with it with out getting in to seriouos body work.

In fairness its a decent looking bus, as for the price... Rediculous what these have come down to.

JohnxF

A definite yes from me. I've a 94 E220 coupe. Fantastic car. Rust has recently started coming through on the leading arches of the front wings so i'm getting that sorted. Other than that no major issues. I've put 60,000 miles on it in 5 years, almost all of those in the first 3 years. The only thing that had it off the road for a while was tracking down a faulty wire to the fuel pump.
AFAIK, the main visible differences in the face lifted models was clear/smoked indicator lenses and body-colour on the bumpers and side moulding. The car linked to above seems to have the updated lenses but 'old' mouldings. For the distance of the pictures it looks to be in great nick.

john.

L-M

JohnxF wrote: »

A definite yes from me. I've a 94 E220 coupe. Fantastic car. Rust has recently started coming through on the leading arches of the front wings so i'm getting that sorted. Other than that no major issues. I've put 60,000 miles on it in 5 years, almost all of those in the first 3 years. The only thing that had it off the road for a while was tracking down a faulty wire to the fuel pump.
AFAIK, the main visible differences in the face lifted models was clear/smoked indicator lenses and body-colour on the bumpers and side moulding. The car linked to above seems to have the updated lenses but 'old' mouldings. For the distance of the pictures it looks to be in great nick.

john.

Thanks lads. From what I've learn in my time dealing with cars, a picture is only there to tell you the colour, the wheels and that's about it. Things can be made look alot nicer in pictures

Dare I ask though, is it heavy on juice?

JohnxF

Around town it's not great, but on longer runs (motorway/60+mph) i used to get 32mpg which is pretty good for a large car with a 2.2 engine. Anyway, fuel costs is only a small part of your total expense in general. Even when doing 20k per year @ 32mpg with the 800 road tax the Benz would still cost less than i'd lose in depreciation on a newer, more economical car. Before i taxed, insured and fueled that too!

John.

quenching

My '94 E220 estate gets 26mpg in "suburban" driving, a previous 1.6 petrol MPV got 31mpg on the same routes, so not as bad as you'd think for an old bigger engined car.

Bigus

Limerick man wrote: »

Thanks lads, something like this would be ideal, plus a set of monoblocks

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1324355

You won't find a better speced 2.o ltr than that,leather, armrest colour you want, well worth a look for a haggle.lookes like a pilot with weston in the background or somebody using good PROPS (pun intended)

Mr. Presentable

Limerick man wrote: »

Thanks lads, something like this would be ideal, plus a set of monoblocks

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1324355

My only concern would be that it has a towbar. Who knows what was dragged about, and how?

Seweryn

si_guru wrote: »

I always say that with Mercs you only ever want the Auto!

1. Manuals are rubbish
2. That foot operated parking brake sucks with a manual box - try doing a 3 point turn on a hill!

In what way exactly the manual gearboxes (made by M-B) are rubbish? .
I had eight of these cars and half of them were manual, the other half were automatic. I found both of them excellent and never had any problem with any of them. Both transmissions are well engineered and both are very reliable and easy to deal with. The manual one is a lot more economical (about 20-20%), especially if you use the car on long trips. On the other hand, the auto is handy in the traffic. If I have a choice I would probably prefer the manual in about 60% of my journeys.
I also can't see a problem with doing a 3-way turn up the hill with manual. You simply release the clutch pedal until you feel the car starts moving and then release the parking brake and you drive off. Just bit of practice...

si_guru

Seweryn wrote: »

In what way exactly the manual gearboxes (made by M-B) are rubbish? .
I had eight of these cars and half of them were manual, the other half were automatic. I found both of them excellent and never had any problem with any of them. Both transmissions are well engineered and both are very reliable and easy to deal with. The manual one is a lot more economical (about 20-20%), especially if you use the car on long trips. On the other hand, the auto is handy in the traffic. If I have a choice I would probably prefer the manual in about 60% of my journeys.
I also can't see a problem with doing a 3-way turn up the hill with manual. You simply release the clutch pedal until you feel the car starts moving and then release the parking brake and you drive off. Just bit of practice...

There are undesirable.. also I had a C class 1.8 manual new.. never liked it as much as the auto MBs I have had.

I meant driving properly not riding the clutch... like if you stall and with a trailer on a hill and need to restart... you always have to go to neutral to engage the brake.. it's just wrong... badly thought thru'. There is a reason that all other manual cars have a hand brake.

Seweryn

nipplenuts wrote: »

My only concern would be that it has a towbar. Who knows what was dragged about, and how?

Nothing wrong with that. The W124 can pull trailers up to 2,100 kg (Estate with an automatic transmission), this one can do 1,900 kg. You should take it for a spin and check if there are any unusual noises, knocks or vibrations from the drive shaft when you drive it. The mechanical bits (final drive, gearbox, etc.) are up to the job.

mike65

Curiously the w201 has the standard handbrake design.

Seweryn

si_guru wrote: »

There is a reason that all other manual cars have a hand brake.

No, it is not. Unless there is a car that has the foot operated parking brake with automatic transmission and the standard hand operated parking brake if it is equipped with manual gearbox.

Seweryn

mike65 wrote: »

Curiously the w201 has the standard handbrake design.

The W201 is smaller (smaller foot wells) and that is the main reason they were equipped with handbrake.

Seweryn

Limerick man wrote: »

I'm toying with the idea of a 200e Saloon if and when the Bmw sells, would have to be black, reasonably clean, preferably auto (and No I'm not going into undertaking :P)

I've heard these are the most bullit proof of the lot, I'm just wondering if anyone has one or personal experience with them?

It is true that they are very well built and very well engineered.
Is there a reason that you are looking for the 200E / E200 model? There are two different engines with the same capacity (2000 ccm) - the earlier one - M102 and the later one - M111. The later M111 (as on the link you posted later) is a 16-valve engine with electronically controlled fuel injection system and the M102 has 8-valve head and mechanically controlled injection system. The M102 also needs valve clearance adjustment as far as I know (the M111 has hydraulic tappets). Both engines are great and trouble free. The only technical (or rather "cosmetic") detail that I do not like about the M111 is the sound. It is quiet motor, but when revved, it sounds a bit houverish. I like the way the five or six cylinder Diesel sound in these cars and even for that reason (apart from the excellent fuel economy and unbelievable reliability) I would take the Diesel engined 124 any time.
The bio-degradable wiring loom is the issue with later 6-cylinder petrol engined models. The smaller engines are not known to have this problem.
The most important thing when looking for the W124 is the condition of the bodywork in general (look for rust and any damage repairs). The mechanical stuff is easy to repair...

Good Luck with your choice.

Ali Babba

Also put a new set of ignition coils into it when you get it because if the coils pack up they automatically blow the ECU, I've seen it happen on three occasions so it's not a one off thing, more so with the 200 than the other models. Personally I'd buy the diesel version.

8~)

Bigus wrote: »

You won't find a better speced 2.o ltr than that,leather, armrest colour you want, well worth a look for a haggle.lookes like a pilot with weston in the background or somebody using good PROPS (pun intended)

I disagree - the doorcards don't match the seats and the electric front windows (only) are aftermarket. So it's a basic spec car which has had rewiring done and different seats fitted. Fine if it's a good and professional job but there is also potential for bodgery and rattly trim.

L-M

Bigus wrote: »

You won't find a better speced 2.o ltr than that,leather, armrest colour you want, well worth a look for a haggle.lookes like a pilot with weston in the background or somebody using good PROPS (pun intended)

I've to sell the BMW first before I can make any moves, the only box it doesn't tick is the fact it's not all black. The tow bar of course is a concern too.

I'll have to wait until the BMW sells, I can start seriously thinking into what I want next. Seriously considering one of these atm.

mike65

Does it have to be a 2.0 saloon? The 2.2 16v coupes are now very affordable.

carchaeologist

Yes!
Do it,you'll find it a far superior car to your Golf. Just take your time buying and get a good one. And get an auto,as capable as they may be a manual mercedes just isnt the same as an automatic.
Theres just something about older Mercs. After owning one for awhile you will see what i mean. My 190E is 20 years old and its still is a better drive than many much more modern cars even though its lowered.

Were you at the show in Castletroy yesterday?

L-M

mike65 wrote: »

Does it have to be a 2.0 saloon? The 2.2 16v coupes are now very affordable.

It has to be a saloon yes, I love the look of them.

carchaeologist wrote: »

Yes!
Do it,you'll find it a far superior car to your Golf. Just take your time buying and get a good one. And get an auto,as capable as they may be a manual mercedes just isnt the same as an automatic.
Theres just something about older Mercs. After owning one for awhile you will see what i mean. My 190E is 20 years old and its still is a better drive than many much more modern cars even though its lowered.

Were you at the show in Castletroy yesterday?

The Golf is going no where And no, I had to head up to Punchestown to take a few photos, was it any good? The father was down there with two of his cars.

Thanks for the engine info Seweryn, but to be very honest it's more about the look of the car over power. I've always had a thing for big Mercs, if I were to buy a newer S-class I'm sure I'd be plagued with expensive repair bill, the w124 seems to tick the boxes

carchaeologist

Limerick man wrote: »

The Golf is going no where And no, I had to head up to Punchestown to take a few photos, was it any good? The father was down there with two of his cars.

Yep,lots of modded VWs there,thought you might be among them!

unkel

mike65 wrote: »

Does it have to be a 2.0 saloon? The 2.2 16v coupes are now very affordable.

Good suggestion, couldn't agree more! The coupes used to carry ridiculous price tags until a few years ago. The looks of the W124 saloon haver never done much for me but the coupe is right up there. Stylish and elegant pillarless design. A true future classic.

Pity the OP doesn't agree with us

L-M

unkel wrote: »

Good suggestion, couldn't agree more! The coupes used to carry ridiculous price tags until a few years ago. The looks of the W124 saloon haver never done much for me but the coupe is right up there. Classic pillarless design. A true future classic.

Pity the OP doesn't agree with us

Don't worry, I know the value there! A friend of mine got one dirt cheap, blue, tested, cream leather, auto etc. etc. etc. all for not much more money than that saloon!

shawnee

Would like a diesel one myself , but most of the diesels have 200k on them and a towbar !!! seats worn etc , if you know of one that does'nt fit these bill , I am interested...:D

Seweryn

shawnee wrote: »

Would like a diesel one myself , but most of the diesels have 200k on them and a towbar !!! seats worn etc , if you know of one that does'nt fit these bill , I am interested...:D

I own three Benz Diesels at present (2 x 124T Estates and 1 x 190D) and all of them have over 200k and tow bars (no excessive wear on any seat anyway). I can't understand why people are being put off by the mileage especially. It is not a French car, it is the W124. Mileage for a well minded Diesel engined 124 is only a number on the speedometer . I have two friends and both of them drive / drove 124 Diesels with over 1 million km on the clock and they look great, drive fine and are reliable. The tow bar is also something that doesn't do much to a 124. They can pull really heavy trailers and give no problems. The things that may wear if pulling trailer are the drive shaft couplers (front and rear). These bits together cost less than 150 Euro if you really need to replace them and you will notice quite easily if they are worn when you take the car for a spin. Differential, gearbox and engine are well up to the job of pulling 2-ton trailer (just make sure you have oil there - that fact is not too obvious for most of car owners...).
I will be selling my 2.5-Diesel engined estate, as I got another one which needs repair (hopefully will keep that one for years). The car drives fine, is very quiet, has the NCT, technically sound, doesn't use any oil or water, doesn't smoke, has good seats, etc. But it has the "excessive" mileage and a tow bar (never used by me), so it doesn't tick the boxes on the Irish market.

Andrew33

Limerick man wrote: »

Thanks lads, something like this would be ideal, plus a set of monoblocks

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1324355

Yum! I want one now.

merc3ps

My old Merc 220TE is available since I traded it in, if anybody is interested....
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1347619

Seweryn

merc3ps wrote: »

My old Merc 220TE is available since I traded it in, if anybody is interested....
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1347619

That is a lovely one. I used to have a very same one E220T with very same equipment. The 2.2 M111 is a good balance between the power and fuel economy. It is 150 hp with very same fuel economy as its smaller 2.0 M111 brother. This car would be a good buy if it is in good condition...

SilverBell

Limerick man wrote: »

Thanks lads, something like this would be ideal, plus a set of monoblocks

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1324355

Strange...black with grey plastic panels....and grey carpets/grey trim? The seats seem to be a combination of two styles of seat aswell. Neither the old or new style.

Seweryn

SilverBell wrote: »

Strange...black with grey plastic panels....and grey carpets/grey trim? The seats seem to be a combination of two styles of seat aswell. Neither the old or new style.

It looks like the seats were replaced actually. They should be cloth to match.

quenching

Seweryn wrote: »

I will be selling my 2.5-Diesel engined estate, as I got another one which needs repair (hopefully will keep that one for years). The car drives fine, is very quiet, has the NCT, technically sound, doesn't use any oil or water, doesn't smoke, has good seats, etc. But it has the "excessive" mileage and a tow bar (never used by me), so it doesn't tick the boxes on the Irish market.

PM me with some more details when you're selling it Seweryn. My E220 estate might need company!

merc3ps

merc3ps wrote: »

My old Merc 220TE is available since I traded it in, if anybody is interested....
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1347619

These are so pricey compared to the E34 estates, having owned a W124 and an E34 I really cannot understand why.

L-M

RoverJames wrote: »

These are so pricey compared to the E34 estates, having owned a W124 and an E34 I really cannot understand why.

The E34 estates are a nice car as well, but again you'd could bring a 940 estate into the arguement as well. A friend bought a 2.0 turbo one yesterday with a years nct, 2 months tax for €400.

Seweryn

RoverJames wrote: »

These are so pricey compared to the E34 estates, having owned a W124 and an E34 I really cannot understand why.

It depends on the market, but the 124 is a bit better quality build car, the 124T Estate is a lot more spacious and if you wish to compare the Diesel engined models, then the BMW has very little to offer in comparison, as the TDS engines are no-where near with the reliability.

Was thinking more of the petrol models, I have a 1993 520i estate NCTs till Aug 2011 with 160000 miles on her, she is a fine bus but I won't be asking near €2750 for her, nor would I expect someone to part with that for her.

Blue850

Merc E300 diesel for under a grand and its taxed till November!

I Was VB

Bit of a personal fav for the pre-facelift 124, i know to the untrained eye they look the same but the pre 93 looks so much better than the 94-95 model.

Looks more understated and more Merc

YUM!! Altho it is a 500E


Bleh;

Still could be worse:

L-M

Blue850 wrote: »

Merc E300 diesel for under a grand and its taxed till November!

:eek:

I'd hate to tax it after November though And it's not black

shawnee

Yeah the feckin road tax has ruined the attraction of cars over 2 litre. Like this but again how much would a years tax be on it.:rolleyes:

shawnee

That 300 diesel for under a grand is gone, probably just as well as I was very tempted.:D

L-M

shawnee wrote: »

Yeah the feckin road tax has ruined the attraction of cars over 2 litre. Like this but again how much would a years tax be on it.:rolleyes:

My little book tells me

2901cc-3000cc €1293, 1/2 year €896, 1/4 year 442

3001 or more €1566, €869, €442 respectively.

I'd pay the tax on something like that but it would have to be a petrol performance car, I couldn't justify paying it on 3.0 diesel.

Like wise if I was to buy anything over 3.0 litre, I'd buy the biggest engine possible (ie. S600, E500 etc.)

L-M

shawnee wrote: »

That 300 diesel for under a grand is gone, probably just as well as I was very tempted.:D

Did you ring? It's still on donedeal?

L-M

Not cheap!!! But, it's nice.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1357610

Blue850

Limerick man wrote: »

Not cheap!!! But, it's nice.

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1357610

I hate chrome wheel arch trims