By election delay

Our man in Havana

Can the government refuse to move the writs and simply wait for the next general election?

CoalBucket

I would also like to know the legalities on this. Surely there has to be a time limit to the length of time they can prevent it ?

RATM

AFAIK the Constitution would have to be changed to put a time limit on when a by-election has to be held. I think atm it says something like it should be held 'at the earliest possible convenience' which is ambiguous to say the least.

maynooth_rules

Read an article in the Irish Independent last week that was urging the President to step in on the matter. Instead of going around the country cutting ribbons, maybe she could justify her three hundred thousand euro pay packet and actually stand up for democracy here and say that all 3 by elections should be held at the soonest possible date. What is happening is nothing short of a disgrace

scr123

The government is absolutely correct in blocking these byelections after the disgraceful shambles of the most recent one in Dublin South. This turned out to be a total waste of public money and a shameful embarrassment to political democracy. The results of the three elections will have no bearing on the governments ability to stay in office until 2010. All they will do is allow the maniacs opposed to FF to vent their hatred and this they do without wasting public money on their political and economic immaturity. God knows who the Opposition would helicopter in as candidates. Its troubled economic times we are in and solutions are needed not opportunities for useles people to repeat their empty attacks on FF without offering a viable alternative.

I want democracy not rabble rousing nonsense !!

norrie rugger

So to suit your needs, people should be denied representation in the dail?

Biggins

My thoughts are posted on www.unitedpeople.ie
Feel free to disagree but its an international disgrace that we are being seen to disallow whole communities to go unrepresented for selfish 2 party (FF/greens) reasons.

Posted by Scr123
The government is absolutely correct in blocking these by-elections after the disgraceful shambles of the most recent one in Dublin South. This turned out to be a total waste of public money and a shameful embarrassment to political democracy. The results of the three elections will have no bearing on the governments ability to stay in office until 2010. All they will do is allow the maniacs opposed to FF to vent their hatred and this they do without wasting public money on their political and economic immaturity. God knows who the Opposition would helicopter in as candidates. Its troubled economic times we are in and solutions are needed not opportunities for useles people to repeat their empty attacks on FF without offering a viable alternative.

I want democracy not rabble rousing nonsense !!

So anyone opposed to FF is a maniac? Talk about whacky, downright disgusting tainting onto the rest of the public!
The last people that had a mentality of "if they are not with us - they must be the enemy!" - was dictators the likes of Polpot, China's and North Koreas leader.
It seems Scr123 wishes to paint us all with the same coat regardless of skills, age, dedication to our country's international standing and its very people!

Sorry Scr123, we are not following your blind fanaticism.

ednwireland

scr123 wrote: »

The government is absolutely correct in blocking these byelections after the disgraceful shambles of the most recent one in Dublin South. This turned out to be a total waste of public money and a shameful embarrassment to political democracy. The results of the three elections will have no bearing on the governments ability to stay in office until 2010. All they will do is allow the maniacs opposed to FF to vent their hatred and this they do without wasting public money on their political and economic immaturity. God knows who the Opposition would helicopter in as candidates. Its troubled economic times we are in and solutions are needed not opportunities for useles people to repeat their empty attacks on FF without offering a viable alternative.

I want democracy not rabble rousing nonsense !!

thanks a lot, actually its quite likely pearse doherty will get in here if there is a by - election , although its tight between him and FF, hes the only one working on the ground here anyway (apart from mary appearing at the opening of an envelope and burying her head in the sand on murvagh beach)

erm all elections are rabble rousing nonsense, i just want my full quota of representatives, but its the FF maniacs fault for voting pat the cope into europe anyway

maynooth_rules

scr123 wrote: »

The results of the three elections will have no bearing on the governments ability to stay in office until 2010.

I want democracy not rabble rousing nonsense !!

Your first point makes no sense. I may be wrong, but a sitting party has never won a by election, so it is quite likely that Fianna Fail and their green lapdogs will not win any of those 3 seats. That will make there majority for FF/Greens very minute. Plus there aim will be to stay in office longer than just 2010.

Your second point, if you want democracy, then every constituency in Ireland should have the correct representation. They don't, and all because a desperate party is trying to cling to power, and prevent the people of those three areas to give their opinion on the governement. Shameful

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

This turned out to be a total waste of public money and a shameful embarrassment to political democracy.

FF in government turned out the exact same as the above, and I don't see you objecting to that being repeated ? :mad:

rightwingdub

FF have always been about the national interest not themselves:rolleyes:

ejmaztec

As someone who's a bit of a blow-in from 20 years ago, I just can't believe this bye-election fiasco and the bullsh1t excuses for their not being held.

It's two fingers being waved at democracy, plain and simple.

ejmaztec

scr123 wrote: »

The government is absolutely correct in blocking these byelections after the disgraceful shambles of the most recent one in Dublin South. This turned out to be a total waste of public money and a shameful embarrassment to political democracy. The results of the three elections will have no bearing on the governments ability to stay in office until 2010. All they will do is allow the maniacs opposed to FF to vent their hatred and this they do without wasting public money on their political and economic immaturity. God knows who the Opposition would helicopter in as candidates. Its troubled economic times we are in and solutions are needed not opportunities for useles people to repeat their empty attacks on FF without offering a viable alternative.

I want democracy not rabble rousing nonsense !!

Having read your posts, I've concluded that you must be Enda Kenny, and compliment you on your strategy of laying waste to FF in a clever double-bluff.

efb

It's up to FG to move the writ on Dublin south isn't it?

rightwingdub

Why are people moaning about the by elections not been held, call it natural wastage, we have too many TDS in this country, how much will the government save apart from their own skins:D by not holding these three by elections?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

scr123 wrote: »

The government is absolutely correct in blocking these byelections after the disgraceful shambles of the most recent one in Dublin South. This turned out to be a total waste of public money and a shameful embarrassment to political democracy. The results of the three elections will have no bearing on the governments ability to stay in office until 2010. All they will do is allow the maniacs opposed to FF to vent their hatred and this they do without wasting public money on their political and economic immaturity. God knows who the Opposition would helicopter in as candidates. Its troubled economic times we are in and solutions are needed not opportunities for useles people to repeat their empty attacks on FF without offering a viable alternative.

I want democracy not rabble rousing nonsense !!

uh oh, its mister staunchly again

rightwingdub

Ah but FF are a national institution:rolleyes:, FF have always been the party of ethics in Irish life:rolleyes:

danman

ednwireland wrote: »

thanks a lot, actually its quite likely pearse doherty will get in here if there is a by - election

I don't think he will get in. Just because he came 4 th in the GE, it does not follow that he is a shoe in in a byelection.

The majority of voters in Donegal east, are not SF voters, and he will get very few transfers from FF or FG.
He would have to get close to 50% first preferances and try to limp over on transfers.

SF don't seem to realise how PR works. They are certain that Pearse will get in, based on his 4th place previously.

The non SF voters still make up a vast majority in Donegal.

steelcityblues

The next government will have to immediately put in a time limit clause into the Constitution, and not let this undemocratic farce happen again!

rightwingdub

danman wrote: »

I don't think he will get in. Just because he came 4 th in the GE, it does not follow that he is a shoe in in a byelection.

The majority of voters in Donegal east, are not SF voters, and he will get very few transfers from FF or FG.
He would have to get close to 50% first preferances and try to limp over on transfers.

SF don't seem to realise how PR works. They are certain that Pearse will get in, based on his 4th place previously.

The non SF voters still make up a vast majority in Donegal.

SF won't win the Donegal South West by election, FG will win the the by election when it is held as long as they keep Kenny well away for the hustings:D

maynooth_rules

rightwingdub wrote: »

Why are people moaning about the by elections not been held, call it natural wastage, we have too many TDS in this country, how much will the government save apart from their own skins:D by not holding these three by elections?

They will probably save about enough to keep Anglo Irish in business for an extra 10 minutes

rightwingdub

maynooth_rules wrote: »

They will probably save about enough to keep Anglo Irish in business for an extra 10 minutes

Probably:mad: but whoever is in power after the next election is going to be very unpopular, I'm in Dublin south and I feel that I'm overrepresented already with 4 TDS, let alone 5.

Liam Byrne

rightwingdub wrote: »

Probably:mad: but whoever is in power after the next election is going to be very unpopular, I'm in Dublin south and I feel that I'm overrepresented already with 4 TDS, let alone 5.

Good for you. I don't think anyone in Dáil Eireann is representing me at the moment.

rightwingdub

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Good for you. I don't think anyone in Dáil Eireann is representing me at the moment.

Most TDS only represent their own selfish interests and are beholden to narrow minded vested interests.

Taxipete29

efb wrote: »

It's up to FG to move the writ on Dublin south isn't it?

Traditionally thats the way it has been done, with the party of the outgoing TD moving the writ.

Interesting to see what FF will do if they do move it. Labour should win that seat. Alex White looked nailed on until George Lee parachuted in.

rightwingdub

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Traditionally thats the way it has been done, with the party of the outgoing TD moving the writ.

Interesting to see what FF will do if they do move it. Labour should win that seat. Alex White looked nailed on until George Lee parachuted in.

Would Labour be able attract transfers from FG voters, Dublin South is traditionally a very middle class constituency, okay I know its a volatile constituency.

Taxipete29

rightwingdub wrote: »

Would Labour be able attract transfers from FG voters, Dublin South is traditionally a very middle class constituency, okay I know its a volatile constituency.

Alex White is quite popular in Dublin South. It would be him more so than Labour I feel who would attract the transfers.

danman

rightwingdub wrote: »

Would Labour be able attract transfers from FG voters, Dublin South is traditionally a very middle class constituency, okay I know its a volatile constituency.

With the way that the quota works in a by election, I can't see anyone other than FG candidate getting in.
That's only on past experience.

Transfers are the key in by elections. So I suppose, it depends on who gets the most number 1's to begin with.

If it os a mainly middleclass area, labour may not get the required number 1's.

Taxipete29

danman wrote: »

With the way that the quota works in a by election, I can't see anyone other than FG candidate getting in.
That's only on past experience.

Transfers are the key in by elections. So I suppose, it depends on who gets the most number 1's to begin with.

If it os a mainly middleclass area, labour may not get the required number 1's.

Its hard to judge from the last by-election as George Lee was hugely popular, however FFs vote collapsed(- 23%). The Green vote also dropped( -7.5%) and both of these are likely to drop further. Labour had a 9% increase in their vote and that is likely to of increased. Remember not all of Dublin South is middle class. There are many working class areas that just happen to be expensive to live in.

It will be tough to beat FG considering they do have a large vote, but will they lose alot of floating voters who were put off by the George Lee fiasco and who are turned off by Enda. I think it will be a tough fight for Alex White but I think its entirely possible.

Annasopra

Alex White will win that seat - FG are discredited after George Lee and there is no way an unknown or a celebrity FG candidate will pull in more 1st preferences

scr123

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Alex White will win that seat - FG are discredited after George Lee and there is no way an unknown or a celebrity FG candidate will pull in more 1st preferences

The Lee debacle will cause a serious rebound on FG if the byelection is held before the GE. It might also cause a rebound against them in the other two constituencies if the three are held on same day. Couldnt happen to a nice crowd of people

guinnessdrinker

scr123 wrote: »

The Lee debacle will cause a serious rebound on FG if the byelection is held before the GE. It might also cause a rebound against them in the other two constituencies if the three are held on same day. Couldnt happen to a nice crowd of people

I think the Lee debacle as you call it might cause a bit of a headache for FG in Dublin South alright but I really don't think it would make much difference to voters in the other two constituencies.

Het-Field

scr123 wrote: »

The Lee debacle will cause a serious rebound on FG if the byelection is held before the GE. It might also cause a rebound against them in the other two constituencies if the three are held on same day. Couldnt happen to a nice crowd of people

I suppose that will just mean another three seats for Labour then.

bijapos

It will be close run between Labour and FG, personally I think Lab will win on transfers. It depends a lot on who FG will run. FG Cllr Jim O'Leary who ran in 2007 and was favourite to run in 09 before Lee entered the race has resigned from the party which was a big shock to FG in Dublin S. He would have been favourite to take over from Shatter or Mitchell once they retire.

Former 'Independent' Cllr Gearoid O'Keefe might be a candidate, he joined FG in the last week or two. He seemingly asked to join FF again a few weeks ago but for whatever reason went to FG instead.

I think they will run O'Keefe, he will take a lot of votes in the Mount Merrion-Stilorgan area and tie this area up nicely for FG. Shatter and Mitchell live in diferent parts of the constituency. Don't see FG running another 'outsider'.

FG have been hit by their attempts to rezone certain parts of the constituency, most notably shopping centres in Stilorgan, Nutgrove and Carrickmines so it will be interesting to see how things pan out. It being a by-election it will be run on an ABFF ticket by both FG and Lab. Interesting times nonetheless.

sceptre

There are a number of posts which I've deleted which are personalising the discussion (I've also deleted ensuing posts). Take this as individual notice that such posts are not permitted, not appreciated and add nothing to a discussion. Your duty as a poster/member is to assume the sincerity of another member when posting unless there's demonstrable evidence to the contrary (at which point the solution is to report the posts to moderators if there's a tangiable reason for doing so). Merely disagreeing with your own view isn't demonstrable evidence of anything and isn't in fact a crime, even here. Kindly take note, the forum and other forum members deserve better. It's always been the case, it isn't difficult to remember, folks...

/mod

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

The Lee debacle will cause a serious rebound on FG if the byelection is held before the GE. It might also cause a rebound against them in the other two constituencies if the three are held on same day. Couldnt happen to a nice crowd of people

Whatever about the truth in the first part of the post, the last part of the post makes no sense, and shows a level of disrespect and contempt (assuming you meant "nicer").

Now if you'd given a reason for that contempt, it might at least make some sense, however FG aren't the ones who ruined this country with their disastrous policies and nod-wink politics.