I'm not religious, i'm spiritual

Bodhisopha

What's that all about then?

I can't quite wrap my head around it. Does it even make sense?

Is it simply a way to disassociate yourself from religion whilst not appearing a cold, unfeeling believer of nothing?

Does anybody here identify as non-religious yet spiritual?

Help me out.

Dr. Loon

I think some people say that sort of stuff, because in their heart of hearts they aren't in anyway superstitious, but they deperately want to believe in something spiritual. It's similar to the "There has to be something" crew.
But then there are also people who feel a spirituality through meditation, and I don't see anything wrong with that. I can feel "spiritual" looking at beautiful scenery. I suppose it's all in how it's expressed.

Vague mutterings about "something" and being "spiritual" but not putting any lucid description to it, are just that; vague mutterings and nothing else.

Pushtrak

I infer they are a fan of spirits. Of the intoxicating variety. Or just daft. One of those.

Jumpy

I can. I take the good bits from all the religions. Mainly buddhism though.
I dont neccesarily believe in Karma though, but I do follow its idea.

jill_valentine

I think they mean they're kinda philosophical, rather than religious as such.

dlofnep

I think it's the lack of belief in an organised faith, but still feeling that something is out there.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Obama described his mum as an atheist but one of the most spiritual people he'd ever met. Kind of bothered me because it appeared he was interpreting spiritual as "of high moral standard"

JayMul

Being religous doesn't automatically make you spiritual or a good christian. You could go to church and do all the formalities and still be a kiddy fiddler or just a p**ck to people. Spirituality is being in touch with your inner self and having a belief in a greater power whatever that may be.

I'm a spiritual person raised with Christian values and the teachings of Jesus. But I don't go to church cause it makes me feel uncomfortable and I don't believe Jesus would have wanted it that way so I feel I'm actually supporting him by not advocating it. In fact if Jesus was here to take a look at the current state of the Church and peoples view of Religion, he would probably end up on a cross again.

But in answer to Bodhisopha I think the people you are thinking of are defined as secular spiritualists.

Daftendirekt

For starters, I think the word 'spirituality' needs to be scrapped and replaced with something else, but I don't think the concept it stands for is necessarily a bad thing. I used to think it meant simply trying to replace the man in the sky with something else, but I think there's more to it than that.

My pet theory (sorry, hypothesis :pac:) is that 'spirituality' is an attempt to find something more substantial than the the 'be born, grow up, do stuff, die' format in life. Some people do this by adopting a belief in a deity who'll reward them in their afterlife. Some people prefer a sort of ambiguous impersonal being who doesn't really relate to humans in any meaningful way, but just works away in the background, giving the universe some unknowable purpose and taking some of the chaos and uncertainty from life. Others scrap the idea of a deity altogether, and embrace a philosophy such as Buddhism or even just focus on fulfilling themselves by working towards their own goals.

In this context, 'spiritual' is perfectly compatible with 'not religious'. I just don't like the supernatural connotations of the word itself.

Bodhisopha

Secular spirituality seems to place an emphasis on inner peace and happiness but i don't see how the attainment of either is a necessarily spiritual endeavour. Who doesn't want happiness? Who doesn't want inner peace?

kiffer

JayMul wrote: »

Being religous doesn't automatically make you spiritual or a good christian.
...

Yeah... cause you might be Islamic, Hindu or some other religion ...
we tend to forget about them...

hiorta

We all have a spiritual side to our nature, in the same way that we have an intellectual side, or an intuitive side.
Becoming more spiritual in being aware of the sufferings of others and other life forms is inborn, religious thinking is not.
As the born musician or artist continues to grow in their art, the spiritual person continues to develop their compassion for all as they experience life.
Beliefs of any kind may, but usually do not, form their chosen paths in life - they are just not needed - therefore 'kind' persons can be found in any and all walks of life.
There is no creed or obligation and no obligation or desire to conform to any doctrine or dogma.

JayMul

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Secular spirituality seems to place an emphasis on inner peace and happiness but i don't see how the attainment of either is a necessarily spiritual endeavour. Who doesn't want happiness? Who doesn't want inner peace?

Sure but wanting it and having it aren't the same thing, like spirituality and religion aren't the same thing.

People might want it and not actually know they can attain it outside of religion, religion is just a form of worship and is completely seperate from spirituality. Some religions promote spiritual endeavours, Buddhism and Indian religions promote meditation and yoga and these are spiritual exersizes. But neither are attached to a specific religion, some forms of christian religion promote meditation and in fact I have heard of one that burn oil lamps laced with THC (marijuana oil) in the inititiation ceremony of their priests, coptic christians I think they are.

Dr. Loon

JayMul wrote: »

I have heard of one that burn oil lamps laced with THC (marijuana oil) in the inititiation ceremony of their priests, coptic christians I think they are.

Sounds good.

JayMul

Dr. Loon wrote: »

Sounds good.

Yeh we should all become Coptic christians :pac:

20goto10

It means, like all other humans, they are conscious of their consciousness. But unfortunately they are mistaken as to what it means.

checkyabadself

I`ve met a few people that claim to be spiritual and not religious. When they say that, all I hear is "I`m not religious, I`m desperate".

I`ve always found it hard to grasp those who always say, "there has to be more than this". Where does that train of thought even come from?

When someone says "heaven is a great place" or "the afterlife will be better than earth and I`m looking forward to it", how are they quantifying (sp) heaven. How can you imagine another universe or world different to this one, let alone claim that it`ll be better.

Dr. Loon

checkyabadself wrote: »

When someone says "heaven is a great place" or "the afterlife will be better than earth and I`m looking forward to it", how are they quantifying (sp) heaven. How can you imagine another universe or world different to this one, let alone claim that it`ll be better.

I always thought heaven would be a very boring place. I mean, after 1,000 years chatting to your loved ones, you'd be looking elsewhere for entertainment, and I can't imagine there's much sex, drugs or rock n' roll in heaven.

fisgon

Most people mean by 'spiritual' the opposite of materialistic. In fact when people talk about their spiritual life, really they are talking about their emotional and psychological well being. Though it is one of the most meaningless words in the English language, as it can mean almost anything.

JayMul

Yet it's quite meaningful for those who feel they possess it.

Bodhisopha

JayMul wrote: »

Yet it's quite meaningful for those who feel they possess it.

As is a belief in God, Jesus, Allah, Santa Claus etc etc...

JayMul

For sure, each to their own and all that.

hiorta

There seems to be no connection whatever between 'spiritual' and ideas like 'heaven'.
Notions like 'heaven & hell' are theological constructs, the spiritual dimension to Life - all life - is quietly real, though inprovable.

sensibleken

absoulutely distinct.

claiming your religious is claiming you subscribe a certain set of beliefs and rules. saying your spiritual claims you do not subscibe wholly to one set.

personally im an athiest but am spiritual too. in so far as concerned with the nature of the spirit ethics, purpose etc. others will have different names for it but that one suits me

JayMul

It's a sensible outlook but I don't prescribe to the fact that spirituality is removed from religion and vice versa, in fact I would say you are wrong. They can be intertwined if one wishes, Buddhism places a huge emphasis on enlightenment and spirituality.

[-0-]

My understanding is taken from John Moriarty when he was dying.. It goes along the lines of:

"I know the Universe is billions of years old. I've read Darwin, Hawkins, Plato, Hitchens, Harris, etc. Despite all of this, I have something deep inside me. Call it a knowing, just like I know that water is wet or that the air is cold on a winter morning. I know there is something else out there after you die. It may not be heaven, but I do know that we go somewhere else when we die.".

He went on to give an account of someone stumbling home drunk from the pub and when they get to their door they realise they've lost their keys. They get down on their hands and feet under a street light and begin to look there. A cop comes by and helps as well, and after a while the cop says they can't be here. The drunk says 'Of course they're not here, I didn't lose them here!' to which the cop asks 'Then why are you looking here?' Now take this light to be how we perceive the universe, and the darkness on the street is the rest of the universe. We can only see so much of it due to light, etc, and we also perceive it in a certain way. Just because something we can't perceive something doesn't mean it's impossible.

The above is pretty much the view of someone who is 'Spiritual'. They don't believe in God, in Jesus, etc... but they do believe that we go somewhere or that something happens us when we die - that we simply don't just die but we either "become one with the universe" or transcend into something else/somewhere else.

Zillah

[-0-] wrote: »

My understanding is taken from John Moriarty when he was dying.. It goes along the lines of:

"I know the Universe is billions of years old. I've read Darwin, Hawkins, Plato, Hitchens, Harris, etc. Despite all of this, I have something deep inside me. Call it a knowing, just like I know that water is wet or that the air is cold on a winter morning. I know there is something else out there after you die. It may not be heaven, but I do know that we go somewhere else when we die.".

He went on to give an account of someone stumbling home drunk from the pub and when they get to their door they realise they've lost their keys. They get down on their hands and feet under a street light and begin to look there. A cop comes by and helps as well, and after a while the cop says they can't be here. The drunk says 'Of course they're not here, I didn't lose them here!' to which the cop asks 'Then why are you looking here?' Now take this light to be how we perceive the universe, and the darkness on the street is the rest of the universe. We can only see so much of it due to light, etc, and we also perceive it in a certain way. Just because something we can't perceive something doesn't mean it's impossible.

The above is pretty much the view of someone who is 'Spiritual'. They don't believe in God, in Jesus, etc... but they do believe that we go somewhere or that something happens us when we die - that we simply don't just die but we either "become one with the universe" or transcend into something else/somewhere else.

However, the fact that the man had previously had keys and used them to open his door makes the situation completely different. It's more like if we have a group of people under a street light and a few of them suddenly start insisting that there is something out there in the darkness. They didn't hear it, or see it, or smell it, but they feel it's out there. Some say it's a zombie, others say it's a dinosaur, a few say they're not sure but there is definitely something moving in the darkness. The rest of us say we didn't see anything so let's wait until we've got a few torches before we conclude anything. Add to this the fact that we know people tend to get paranoid about the dark and imagine things that aren't there and I think we've got a pretty good analogue.

studiorat

I'm not religious, but I've got Soul!

enda1

Spiritual means you like yoga and yoghurt, in fact all yo* things, as far as I can tell.

studiorat

enda1 wrote: »

Spiritual means you like yoga and yoghurt, in fact all yo* things, as far as I can tell.

I thought that was Ghey.

Dades

[-0-] wrote: »

The above is pretty much the view of someone who is 'Spiritual'. They don't believe in God, in Jesus, etc... but they do believe that we go somewhere or that something happens us when we die - that we simply don't just die but we either "become one with the universe" or transcend into something else/somewhere else.

The above nice, warm, fuzzy tale of what we don't know can be summed up like thus:

I don't know what happens after we die - and because you don't either - I'm saying there is because it makes me feel better.

We have no reason whatsoever to believe there is anymore of an afterlife for us than there is a for a fly squashed by a newspaper.

hiorta

"""I`ve always found it hard to grasp those who always say, "there has to be more than this". Where does that train of thought even come from?"""
checkyabadself.

The known universe is constantly expanding and changing.
The unseen Universe is possibly far greater.
Is it sensible to imagine that we know the questions - far less the answers - with only our 5 meagre senses to work with?

sensibleken

Zillah wrote: »

However, the fact that the man had previously had keys and used them to open his door makes the situation completely different. It's more like if we have a group of people under a street light and a few of them suddenly start insisting that there is something out there in the darkness. They didn't hear it, or see it, or smell it, but they feel it's out there. Some say it's a zombie, others say it's a dinosaur, a few say they're not sure but there is definitely something moving in the darkness. The rest of us say we didn't see anything so let's wait until we've got a few torches before we conclude anything. Add to this the fact that we know people tend to get paranoid about the dark and imagine things that aren't there and I think we've got a pretty good analogue.

dude if you suspect a zombie never just wait and see! get yourself to some secure shelter pronto!

[-0-]

Dades wrote: »

The above nice, warm, fuzzy tale of what we don't know can be summed up like thus:



We have no reason whatsoever to believe there is anymore of an afterlife for us than there is a for a fly squashed by a newspaper.

Moriarty also believed that a rock on a back road somewhere had as much meaning or relevance as our finest mathematics.

Just his thinking, which is not what this thread is about. I was merely highlighting the way some spiritual people think.

Dr. Loon

[-0-] wrote: »

My understanding is taken from John Moriarty when he was dying.. It goes along the lines of:

"I know the Universe is billions of years old. I've read Darwin, Hawkins, Plato, Hitchens, Harris, etc. Despite all of this, I have something deep inside me. Call it a knowing, just like I know that water is wet or that the air is cold on a winter morning. I know there is something else out there after you die. It may not be heaven, but I do know that we go somewhere else when we die.".

He went on to give an account of someone stumbling home drunk from the pub and when they get to their door they realise they've lost their keys. They get down on their hands and feet under a street light and begin to look there. A cop comes by and helps as well, and after a while the cop says they can't be here. The drunk says 'Of course they're not here, I didn't lose them here!' to which the cop asks 'Then why are you looking here?' Now take this light to be how we perceive the universe, and the darkness on the street is the rest of the universe. We can only see so much of it due to light, etc, and we also perceive it in a certain way. Just because something we can't perceive something doesn't mean it's impossible.

The above is pretty much the view of someone who is 'Spiritual'. They don't believe in God, in Jesus, etc... but they do believe that we go somewhere or that something happens us when we die - that we simply don't just die but we either "become one with the universe" or transcend into something else/somewhere else.

Why though?
For what reason, other than to give yourself comfort. Do people honestly believe that we - on this tiny planet in an almost or quite possibly icomprehensibly huge universe - are eternal beings? If advanced life forms ever find us they're gonna have some laugh.

Becoming one with the Earth and the Universe is essentially what will happen, you'll become a small piece of the dust of the universe and the circle of life on earth.

[-0-]

Dr. Loon wrote: »

Why though?
For what reason, other than to give yourself comfort. Do people honestly believe that we - on this tiny planet in an almost or quite possibly icomprehensibly huge universe - are eternal beings? If advanced life forms ever find us they're gonna have some laugh.

People have a predisposition to believe.

Dr. Loon wrote: »

Becoming one with the Earth and the Universe is essentially what will happen, you'll become a small piece of the dust of the universe and the circle of life on earth.

It's actually quite beautiful when you think about it.

Truley

This is an interesting one, I have always wondered what spirits, or being 'spiritual' means, I think it means different things for different people. From my interpretation (and this is just my view I'm not saying it's the correct definition,) the 'spiritual' world is like another realm outside of the physical world and its laws. It's a realm of our thoughts, feelings and desires; what we can't see or quantify but most will agree is a real entity, as real as our physical bodies.

To be 'spiritual' is to acknowledge this other region of our lives and to be 'tuned in' somewhat to it. For example with the changing seasons I will acknowledge the changing moods and energies it brings about in both the human and animal/plant world. I believe our experiences in the physical world can affect our 'spirit' and as such impact on us even when our physcal body has lost all awareness of it. The afterlife(s) is another story and I don't think it necessarily has anything to do with being spiritual.

Religion, I have always imagined, is an effort to label or box our spiritual experiences into something more concrete and managable. Which is why 99.9% of all religions follow a pretty predictable pattern along with the seasons etc. I don't think it is coincidential.

That's my interpretation of it anyway

gbee

Bodhisopha wrote: »

does anybody here identify as non-religious yet spiritual? Help me out.

For a start, religion was invented by man to suppress man, period. The principal is if one is afraid of God, Allah or any of the others, and YOU set yourself up as his [God/Allah etc] representative here on earth then you won’t need expensive standing armies to suppress or conquer peoples.

Next we have the ingrained belief system that YOUR mum and dad gave you, this is most likely the state religion which your parents pass on to you, they do so out of belief, ignorance and fear ~ they are not trying to suppress you as the government does, they genuinely love you and are trying to do the best for their son or daughter. The upshot is YOU grow up with a belief system that is hard to shrug off and in of itself is no harm, so YOU can understand that what you’ve been taught is a manipulation tool, but still find peace and comfort in some or all of its teachings.

So we arrive at the most common place, a place where you do not believe in any of the religions [for good reason] and you don’t believe in any of these religion’s gods either, but you think there might be a spiritual place as you now understand that life and sentient awakening are separate but linked. The body is born, but so far MAN [that’s all men and women] are the only ones who know that they are alive and can appreciate it. So maybe you think that there is a place, like what all these religions are talking about, but for FREE.

Dr. Loon

[-0-] wrote: »

It's actually quite beautiful when you think about it.

I think so. Quite profound really, and no need for any supernatural element.

ClutchIt

[-0-] wrote: »

Moriarty also believed that a rock on a back road somewhere had as much meaning or relevance as our finest mathematics.

Just his thinking, which is not what this thread is about. I was merely highlighting the way some spiritual people think.

The Moriarty sounds like a bloody Gimp

[-0-]

ClutchIt wrote: »

The Moriarty sounds like a bloody Gimp

To be fair, he was an amazing poet and philosopher who has written lots of very interesting books. I didn't do him any favours and he'd probably be rolling in his grave if he saw the examples I used.

He was far from a gimp tbh. Nostos is a great book an I'd recommend reading it.

Truley

enda1 wrote: »

Spiritual means you like yoga and yoghurt, in fact all yo* things, as far as I can tell.

And brown rice and lentils

Bodhisopha

So spirituality is another less defined, less restrictive leap of faith?

I notice a lot of people who claim to be spiritual talk about their mistrust of organised religion. It seems to me as if they want to let go of what they know has been destructive but don't want to let go of a belief in "more than this".

Words that crop up quite often are - meditation, nature, inner peace, higher power.

toiletduck

Somebody says "I'm not religious, i'm spiritual" I hear "I'm not really anything in particular, I take it all. I believe in horoscopes, think science is arrogant, am of the opinion that I'm a little bit psychic and will think you narrow minded if you ask for proof of any of it. Oh and I'll most likely lecture you on how Western Medicine is behind everything else."
:pac:

JayMul

A lot of the time Western Medicine prescribes ways to cure symptoms but not illnesses. Also it's so ahead of it's game it figures out new diseases to implant in society, then it can release it's new wonderdrug to cure ADHDHDDH or whatever is next. Every heard of Concerta? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate It's very similar to the stuff they sell in the head shops except it can be prescribed to you)?

Now when there is definitely something wrong with someone like treating an acute illness western medicine is extremely potent, but a lot of the time I wouldn't trust it.

Anyway why is this relevant? Cause a lot of illnesses can be caused by a spiritual malaise as much as a physical one (this is very generalised of course ). Your body and mind work together like a team and sometimes your body says slow the **** down.

strobe

JayMul wrote: »

A lot of the time Western Medicine prescribes ways to cure symptoms but not illnesses. Also it's so ahead of it's game it figures out new diseases to implant in society, then it can release it's new wonderdrug to cure ADHDHDDH or whatever is next. Every heard of Concerta? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate It's very similar to the stuff they sell in the head shops except it can be prescribed to you)?

Now when there is definitely something wrong with someone like treating an acute illness western medicine is extremely potent, but a lot of the time I wouldn't trust it.

Anyway why is this relevant? Cause a lot of illnesses can be caused by a spiritual malaise as much as a physical one (this is very generalised of course ). Your body and mind work together like a team and sometimes your body says slow the **** down.

Next time you get a bacterial infection, meditate rather than take anti-biotics so. Be sure to come back and let us know how you got on.

Zillah

JayMul wrote: »

A lot of the time Western Medicine prescribes ways to cure symptoms but not illnesses. Also it's so ahead of it's game it figures out new diseases to implant in society, then it can release it's new wonderdrug to cure ADHDHDDH or whatever is next. Every heard of Concerta? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylphenidate It's very similar to the stuff they sell in the head shops except it can be prescribed to you)?

Now when there is definitely something wrong with someone like treating an acute illness western medicine is extremely potent, but a lot of the time I wouldn't trust it.

Anyway why is this relevant? Cause a lot of illnesses can be caused by a spiritual malaise as much as a physical one (this is very generalised of course ). Your body and mind work together like a team and sometimes your body says slow the **** down.

Sometimes I wish that I too could live in magic land.

JayMul

JayMul wrote: »

Cause a lot of illnesses can be caused by a spiritual malaise as much as a physical one (this is very generalised of course ).

Which ones exactly?

Could you name a few of them and explain how exactly you know they can be caused by a spiritual malaise?

Truley

King Mob wrote: »

Which ones exactly?

Could you name a few of them and explain how exactly you know they can be caused by a spiritual malaise?

I know this question isn't directed at me but I'll give my take on it. Take for example a stomach ulcer. Conventional medicine will will look at the physical causes of the ulcer and treat it accordingly. No problem with that. But if someone was suffering from reoccuring ulcers wouldn't you want to look into more than just the physical causes? A problem like that is massivly affected by one's lifestyle, their emotions, personality and experiences, i.e. on a 'spiritual' level in the sense that I described previously. So yes, alternative therapies such as councilling, massage and yes even meditation are perfectly viable remedies for an array of physical ailments. It's just a more all encompassing way of looking at a person's health, rather than the traditional western way of good health = no physical sympthoms. Not exactly 'far out' man.

robindch

Truley wrote: »

Conventional medicine will will look at the physical causes of the ulcer and treat it accordingly. No problem with that. But if someone was suffering from reoccuring ulcers wouldn't you want to look into more than just the physical causes?

Except you don't appear to be aware of the history of the medicine of ulcers and perhaps unaware of the history of medicine too.

Until quite recently, ulcers were believed to be caused principally by stress. Treatment consisted of making the sufferer eat "low-stress" foods (actually, non-spicy food, usually white in color) and getting them to take it easy. With the result that ulcers remained. It wasn't until the early 80's that researchers discovered that ulcers were exacerbated by Helicobacter pylori and that eradicating these bacteria with antiobiotics very frequently cured the ulcer. The researchers received the 2005 Nobel Prize in Medicine for this discovery.

Evidence-based medicine wins, hands down.

Yes, long term exposure to stress hormones certainly does have detrimental effects upon the mammalian body, but excluding evidence-based medicine in favour of, say, a nice oil massage is not going to help fix the basic problem here.

Dades

I think people here are equating spiritual heath with mental health.

Everybody needs to look after their mind as well as their body, and some people do this by embracing their "spiritual" side. This however does not mean spiritual health has any actual 'power' per se, as other people achieve the same mental health with exercise, social interaction or by just having a hobby.

Whatever keeps you sane, as they say.