The driver complaint MEGATHREAD !

robbie_998

There seems to be a few complaints floating around here why not just stick them all in the one thread ?

so yes one and i don't know if its worth pissing over to DB about... you be the god of that.

so yes the 17:25 76 bus from ""Ballyier !"" and it arrives in good timing to Liffey Valley. I got on .. put my money in the jar and said "1:15 please" ... he counts the money, stares at me for a bit (not dodgy in anyway, just out of work and still in work clothing) then after a bit he presses the button and doesn't say anything.

I Continue to a seat near the rear of the tin can (passing a drunk old man singing to himself) and sit down... girl in wheelchair spot with pram... no problem.

journey goes on no bother..... we get to finches kind man with a baby girl in a pram gets on... girl in wheelchair space kindly moves her pram out of the way so they both fit side by side in the space provided.

Bus driver turns around and says to the bloke.... "fold the buggie !"
Man replies: "sorry ?"
Driver: " I said fold the buggie... take the baby out and fold the thing"

so the guy took a second and then the driver turned the engine off and repeated himself.... he didn't look like he was moving until he did what the guy was told.

The guy actually did it even though they were both fine the way they were.

What was the need for this ? driver being mean ? people seem to do it all the time on other routes no problem.

mikemac

Ah I know this policy, I've read about it on threads here.
Now I used to have over 7,000 posts but lost my account earlier this year

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Accessibility/Passengers-using-Wheelchairs/

Low-floor buses are designed so that buggies can remain unfolded in the wheelchair space if it is free. Please make sure the buggy is safely positioned and the brake is on, unfolded buggies cannot travel in the gangway. You should be able to board any low-floor bus with a buggy. If the driver thinks that it is too crowded for you to board safely, he may refuse you boarding. The driver will not ask anybody already travelling to get off the bus to make room.

Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely.

If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board when there is an unfolded buggy in the wheelchair space, the driver will ask you to fold the buggy and either put it in the luggage space or keep it by your side.

Don't blame the driver, they were only following orders from management. Want the change that thread title?
A buggy user can hold the child and fold the buggy, what do you expect a wheelchair user to do when there is only space available?

KC61

The driver was actually following the rules.

There is only one wheelchair or unfolded pram allowed at any time on the bus. Any additional prams must be folded up.

rx8

What are you on ! There is a sign on the bus that says it is only allowed to carry one open buggy and all others must be stowed in the luggage rack.

You are trying to create an anti bus driver thread here and I don't think you should be encouraging people to come on here and bash up bus drivers.The job is hard enough, trying to battle your way through the city traffic, deal with all kinds of junkies and low-life, without having the likes of you spouting off when you don't like what you see or hear.

Why didn't you stand up and say something to the driver at the time?
Answer;Probably because you knew that your €1.15 fare had ran out and you'd be asked for more money.

People don't realise that the Dublin Bus rules and regulations and the company by-laws are also the law of the land, and the driver is responsible for observing and implementing them.
Safety is the number priority at all times and that has to be understood by all on-lookers.

Maybe the driver was having a bad day and could have approached it differently,or in a more tactful manner, but at the end of the day,you should maybe consider the whole picture before coming on here and trying to incite something.

Martin.
Dublin Bus Driver.

mikemac

Realy OP, firstly I'd change the thread title.
The driver was following orders from management. Now what if a manager was on this bus at time, possibly the driver would have faced disciplinary action if they didn't bother to enforce the rule.
If you disagree with company policy then write to the depot or the HQ.

But don't blame a driver for doing their job

rx8

Also, Wheelchair users do not have priority over anyone else, as this would also be discrimination.
If a wheelchair is looking to board the bus, and a large or double buggy is occupying the space,the driver must be seen to ask if it can be folded, to enable the wheelchair to board. If it can't,then the wheelchair will have to wait for the next bus.
This is the company position and it is designed to avoid discrimination allegations from all passengers.
The quoted piece above is from November 2008 and it contradicts notices that the company have posted in all garages!(enquiries shall be made asap).

mikemac

rx8 wrote: »

Also, Wheelchair users do not have priority over anyone else, as this would also be discrimination.
If a wheelchair is looking to board the bus and a large or double buggy is occupying the space,the driver must be seen to ask if it can be folded to enable the wheelchair to board. If it can't then the wheelchair will have to wait for the next bus.

Realy? So how do you explain the quote from their own website?

Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely.

If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board when there is an unfolded buggy in the wheelchair space, the driver will ask you to fold the buggy and either put it in the luggage space or keep it by your side.

rx8

See above, was editing post at the time of your reply !

robbie_998

rx8 wrote: »

You are trying to create an anti bus driver thread here and I don't think you should be encouraging people to come on here and bash up bus drivers.The job is hard enough, trying to battle your way through the city traffic, deal with all kinds of junkies and low-life, without having the likes of you spouting off when you don't like what you see or hear.

Who said all of them did it ? I only picked one... and i do only pick a bad one that i will bitch about if s/he is doing a bad job.

Like the last one i had... woman texting on the phone while driving a bus and actually not knowingly crossing out of her lane... care to explain that one ?
I actually passed that info onto DB Customer care and they reviewed CCTV footage, confirmed my story and took action against it... anything to say on that one ?

Very simply because i've seen quite a few threads in here about bad employee's etc that it would be easier to stick them all into the one thread.

rx8 wrote: »

Why didn't you stand up and say something to the driver at the time?
Answer;Probably because you knew that your €1.15 fare had ran out and you'd be asked for more money.

well actually no... Liffey Valley (coldcut road) to clondalkin garda station is €1.15. Don't accuse me of law breaking.

rx8 wrote: »

People don't realise that the Dublin Bus rules and regulations and the company by-laws are also the law of the land, and the driver is responsible for observing and implementing them.
Safety is the number priority at all times and that has to be understood by all on-lookers.

Maybe the driver was having a bad day and could have approached it differently,or in a more tactful manner, but at the end of the day,you should maybe consider the whole picture before coming on here and trying to incite something.

Martin.
Dublin Bus Driver.

Just because someone has a bad day doesn't mean take it out on everyone else.. everybody deals with angry or upset people all the time but workers get over it... not pass it on to the next person.

rx8

So maybe you should get on in shorts and a cape if you want to be the "Bus-driver-
police".

Your idea for a megathread is still mis-guided IMO.

robbie_998

rx8 wrote: »

So maybe you should get on in shorts and a cape if you want to be the "Bus-driver-
police".

Your idea for a megathread is still mis-guided IMO.

so because im complaining about a bus driver texting on her phone and losing position in her lane causing a car along side to brake suddenly and blow the horn avoiding an accident i'm now the traffic corps ? sorry but no thanks.

I still have the emails for that complaint too by the way

megathread just for the sake of keeping things in the one place as a kind of a rant basis.

Cookie_Monster

robbie_998 wrote: »

Like the last one i had... woman texting on the phone while driving a bus and actually not knowingly crossing out of her lane... care to explain that one ?

That's why.

Since this thread is not going to go anywhere anyway...

robbie_998

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That's why.

Since this thread is not going to go anywhere anyway...

but i was originally complaining about a guy... what are you trying to get at ?

Im not picking on anyone.

KC61

robbie_998 wrote: »

but i was originally complaining about a guy... what are you trying to get at ?

Im not picking on anyone.

But I note that you have not recognised that he was actually following the correct procedure.....

robbie_998

KC61 wrote: »

But I note that you have not recognised that he was actually following the correct procedure.....

So why don't we just put it down to general attitude.

JHMEG

KC61 wrote: »

The driver was actually following the rules.

Do the rules say drivers have to be rude and embarrass passengers?

KC61

JHMEG wrote: »

Do the rules say drivers have to be rude and embarrass passengers?

Certainly not.

I don't think that is acceptable.

But I think the OP didn't realise that only one pram is allowed.

BenShermin

Can we have a Idiot Passenger Complaint Megathread instead??

I'd like to complain about the igonorant person who wouldn't fold their buggy up when asked to do so by the driver and thus made me five minutes late for work last week due to their stupidity.

AlekSmart

I rather suspect Robbie_998`s MEGA Thread idea may well be motivated by a by a personally ambivallent attituide towards Bus Drivers as a species.

By all means devote a thread,or several if needs be,but by the sound of this call-to-arms we are engaged now in a net-trawl for incidents to be attributed to Bus Drivers.

But back to Robbie_998`s (A Mini ?) observation regarding the 2nd Buggy and the responses to it.

As rx8 points out the situation regarding Disabled Priority has altered within the last 12 months,and NOT to the benefit of Disabled folk either.

Again,as rx8 states,where a Buggy owner is already in the "Dedicated Wheelchair Location" the Busdriver MUST ask (not Tell or Instruct) the Buggy Pusher if they would remove the child and fold their buggy to allow the Disabled Person access the Dedicated Disabled location.

The Buggy person is entirely within their rights to refuse the Busdrivers request,and there the matter ends,with the Busdriver now being required to inform the Disabled Person that they must wait for the next bus,whilst doing whatever can be done in terms of using the Radio to ascertain the position and availability of space on THAT Bus.

It really is the most appaling cop-out altogether and came about as a result of a complaint to the Equality Commission from an able-bodied passenger.

Instead of telling this person to get-a-life,our then equality commissioner ruled with the wisdom of Solomon and thus Dublin Bus was forced to issue it`s revised guidelines to platform-staff.

Now the really interesting aspect to this sorry tale is that since the introduction of the Low Floor Bus in Dublin as a direct result of the CIE companies being required to take cogniscance of the Equality Act 2000,most Busdrivers had assumed,along with many Managers,that a disabled person had priority of access to that facility.

Perhaps it`s only in Modern Ireland and the UK where political correctness has reached the levels of lunacy that we are now currently at.

The latest advice is that the Transport Entity is only required to ensure that there is provision on its vehicles to cater for a Disabled Person should one present for travel,there is NO onus on the company to actually prioritiize the access of that Disabled Person over and above an able-bodied individual.

A classic example of the Irish love affair with Ambiguity and Slithery weasel-words.

And,I can assure posters that being confined to a wheelchair does NOT at all guarantee that an able-bodied person WILL actually fold a buggy to allow a disabled person on-board.

I have had personal experience of several incidents where a totally unnecessary level of "Suggestion" was required to secure a young wheelchair bound lad`s access to the space,although thankfully several other passengers assisted in the process which saw the able-bodied individuals change their minds.

In Robbie_998`s scenario, I would suggest that the BusDrivers initial mistake was to actually allow the second Buggy on-board at all...Possession is 9 tenths etc etc...By far and away the safest,most effective method is to make very certain that Buggy Pusher No2 is aware of the situation whilst still outside the bus.

As an aside I would commend the members of the Filipino community in Dublin as being by far and away the most efficient and responsible Buggy Pushers,as they tend to do most of the observing and responding off their own bat without engaging the Driver in confrontational nonsense largely,it seems,designed to satisfy some craving for "respect"whilst pointedly denying that to everybody else.

I would also ask if Robbie_998 would position an infant sitting sideways-on if using his car ?

Why one wonders are ALL baby-seats,chairs and supports designed to be placed either facing in or away from the direction of travel?

Think about it.....

There are very solid reasons for the required lengthways positioning of a Baby-Buggy and ALL of them revolve around the safety of that infant in the event of an accident,added to the level of culpability which can be attributed to the Company after any such event.

And finally,I fully support Robbie_998`s amended suggestion ....

Very simply because i've seen quite a few threads in here about bad employee's etc that it would be easier to stick them all into the one thread.

By simply substituting Employee in place of Driver,Robbie_998 addresses any accusations of conspiracy,bias or antipathy towards any one grouping....(which might just cause problems with the Equality Authority !!) Sorted .... ?

rx8

Excellent post Alex, very well put.

As regards the apparent contradiction between the company's position as per their website, and the position they have outlined to staff, I have pointed this anomaly out to management today and I'm assured that the "accessability officer", (whoever they may be) will look into it.

Cookie_Monster

About time the EA came out with something sensible. We've already wasted billions on buses, trains and public building that have to be 100% accessible for a tiny tiny proportion of users who actually have a wheelchair. Money can be spent better than pandering to all these minorities.

now the immediate response will be that it makes it easier for all users to have low floor buses, well we did pretty well without them for the last 100 years or so. Just look at private coach companies or BE, no need to have low floors there...

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Just look at private coach companies or BE, no need to have low floors there...

Indeed. BE were instead forced to buy coaches with wheelchair lifts instead, a condition not forced on any other coach operator in the country.

Cookie_Monster

markpb wrote: »

Indeed. BE were instead forced to buy coaches with wheelchair lifts instead, a condition not forced on any other coach operator in the country.

I've never seen a wheelchair lift on a BE bus, only on the new ones
Mind you, not felt the need to get a BE bus in years either

Vic_08

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've never seen a wheelchair lift on a BE bus, only on the new ones
Mind you, not felt the need to get a BE bus in years either

That was well worth posting. :rolleyes:

All BE coaches purchased since 2007 have wheelchair lifts except for the LD class double-deck coaches which are low-floor and have a ramp but no wheelchair (or buggy) space currently available on-board.


Alex' post was spot-on. The usual PC PR crap, as long as people can wave about a bit of paper declaring their pro-equality status they couldn't give a toss about the actual issues for those with mobility issues or those who have to provide an actual service while dealing with these stupid rules and regulations.

I do completely agree with the point about not letting them on in the first place though. Thankfully I don't often have to deal with the buggy brigade but on the few occasions I have had this situation it has always been a case of not letting the second one on until they are fully compliant with folding the damn thing. If you let them on and they are given any hint of an opportunity to not have to fold it there will invariably be a pitched battle to get them to relent and fold it up.

RadioCity

The watchword these days is "accessible".

In respect of Bus Eireann, they would argue that all of their recent purchases are "accessible"-very different from "low-floor". This is true as the LC (and indeed later SP) coaches are all accessible - the coach fleet have all various methods of accessibility either wide entrance door or side opening door with wheelchair lift.

Ulsterbus, who I work for all have a similar accessible fleet, mostly low floor but have 29 Sunsundegui coaches with side opening door and about 180 school buses with similar side opening door. It matters not that these side doors will rarely, if ever, be opened and wheelchair lift deployed, what matters is that the people whose responsibility to order buses can all tick the "yes that's accessible" box and the company can show a huge % of the fleet as being accessible.


When it comes to actual low floor buses, Translink as a whole (Ulsterbus & Metro), had TWO spaces in each bus for either wheelchair or buggy. This is a crucial little feature that probably saves from occuring many a driver/passenger dispute. Indeed when it comes to 3 buggies on board the bus, many users are well enough schooled to collapse their parambulator- in fact in caes Ive seen passengers already on board to quickly fold their buggy to accomodate another.

spareman

robbie_998 wrote: »

I still have the emails for that complaint too by the way

If you are saying that management used cctv to discipline a driver I would love to get my hands on a copy of these emails. pm sent.

robbie_998

spareman wrote: »

If you are saying that management used cctv to discipline a driver I would love to get my hands on a copy of these emails. pm sent.

well i wouldn't say they used the cctv footage as discipline but i'd say it was used in some way to up hold the complaint.

I'd doubt they'd just go on my word for a complaint as such.

spareman

robbie_998 wrote: »

well i wouldn't say they used the cctv footage as discipline but i'd say it was used in some way to up hold the complaint.
I'd doubt they'd just go on my word for a complaint as such.

You wouldn't say they used it for discipline, but may have used it to up hold the complaint????
They either used it or they didnt.

Can you send me copy of emails if they exist?

And yes they would take your word over a driver's to discipline us, I could actually get myself sacked probably by sending an anounamous email or letter believe it or believe it not.

robbie_998

spareman wrote: »

You wouldn't say they used it for discipline, but may have used it to up hold the complaint????
They either used it or they didnt.

Can you send me copy of emails if they exist?

And yes they would take your word over a driver's to discipline us, I could actually get myself sacked probably by sending an anounamous email or letter believe it or believe it not.

send in private messages.... why did you need them ?

spareman

Nothing in them emails say cctv was used, where did you get that from? You made it up right?

This is why Dublin bus has the bad name it does, people like you, making **** up.

I think you should post up the emails so people here can see excatly what has happened and why you feel the need to open a mega thread re dublin bus driver complaints.

Hands up anyone who has never used a mobile phone while driving!!!!

Think 90% of drivers if they are honest would admit to this.

How you were able to see driver texting and also see bus moving out of bus lane is beyond me, obviously a very observant passenger, wonder would you be as observant when it comes to passengers smoking etc, re reporting to Gardai.

robbie_998

spareman wrote: »

Nothing in them emails say cctv was used, where did you get that from? You made it up right?

This is why Dublin bus has the bad name it does, people like you, making **** up.

I think you should post up the emails so people here can see excatly what has happened and why you feel the need to open a mega thread re dublin bus driver complaints.

Hands up anyone who has never used a mobile phone while driving!!!!

Think 90% of drivers if they are honest would admit to this.

How you were able to see driver texting and also see bus moving out of bus lane is beyond me, obviously a very observant passenger, wonder would you be as observant when it comes to passengers smoking etc, re reporting to Gardai.

I never said CCTV WAS USED, i assumed as i doubted that they just took my word over something so serious.

how i know she was texting and drifting out of lane you ask ?

well i was standing to get off the bus as it was coming to my stop and i glanced over and guess what ??? she was texting on her nokia 6300 or similar .

I am a regular driver with a full license and have never touched my phone while driving... if it rings while im driving i can't hear it so i never know its actually ringing so i've no need to touch it.

last statement is just ridicules tbh.

cleveland browne

robbie_998 wrote: »

So why don't we just put it down to general attitude.

The drivers atitude is hard to determine from your account. Since you seem to have an certain general atitude to Dublin Bus drivers your depiction of the event may be coloured by your "general attitude".
It is also possible that you may not be in full possesion of the facts in that you have witnessed one event it is possible that the driver is regularly on this route and has had previous incidents with this same passenger over the folding of a buggy. So while it appears to you that you have witnessed the entire event you may be witnessing one in a long line of events.
Personally I always try to be courteous and ask nicely but sometimes this is greeted with aggression, refusal, threats and hostility we all have our own lives and problems and previous experiences good and bad and unfortunately we bring that baggage with us that applies to passengers and drivers.
It appears to me that sometimes people like yourself immediately presume the driver is insisting on a pram being folded simply because he/she can and not because it is
A the law
B In the interests of the safety of the child and the other passengers using the service.
Yes it appears to you that there is "room" to fit 2 or maybe more buggies but the vehicle is licensed to carry one and in the event of an accident /incident i have no doubt that anyone injured would not hesitate to mention it to their solicitor that the driver had allowed 2 or more unfolded buggies to be carried.

JHMEG

Wow, this thread has been completely derailed (pun intended).

SickCert

robbie_998 wrote: »

What was the need for this ? driver being mean ? people seem to do it all the time on other routes no problem.

Thats right were all 'mean', were mean to infants in buggies because they cant fight back.

Just fold it, whats the issue?

I would love to hear what you sent Spareman.

robbie_998

SickCert wrote: »

Thats right were all 'mean', were mean to infants in buggies because they cant fight back.

Just fold it, whats the issue?

I would love to hear what you sent Spareman.

I don't necessarily care about the folding buggy fact... just more the way he handled it...

and who said all drivers ??? NOBODY

that was you assuming that all passengers are just taking hits at drivers.

What i sent to spare man was a complaint about a driver texting on the phone.... no excuse ... don't try to defend it like spareman did cos it was wrong and everybody knows it,

SickCert

robbie_998 wrote: »

What i sent to spare man was a complaint about a driver texting on the phone.... no excuse ... don't try to defend it like spareman did cos it was wrong and everybody knows it,

CCTV cannot be used against a driver unless the garda are involved.

As for the rest - do i care, uh No.

robbie_998

SickCert wrote: »

CCTV cannot be used against a driver unless the garda are involved.

I never said it was used.... like i already said about 3 times now... i assumed it was used to confirm what i say but i don't know.

SickCert wrote: »

As for the rest - do i care, uh No.

The don't say it in the first place then and don't post.

CSaber

robbie_998 wrote: »

I never said it was used.... like i already said about 3 times now... i assumed it was used to confirm what i say but i don't know.

Actually, you did say CCTV was used. From your original post:

robbie_998 wrote: »

Like the last one i had... woman texting on the phone while driving a bus and actually not knowingly crossing out of her lane... care to explain that one ?
I actually passed that info onto DB Customer care and they reviewed CCTV footage, confirmed my story and took action against it... anything to say on that one ?
.

(Emphasis mine)

It was only subsequently that you said you assumed it was used.

robbie_998

CSaber wrote: »

Actually, you did say CCTV was used. From your original post:

(Emphasis mine)

It was only subsequently that you said you assumed it was used.

and what difference would it make anyway ?

shouldn't be using the phone !

foggy_lad

robbie_998 wrote: »

and what difference would it make anyway ?

shouldn't be using the phone !

exactly and that is the most important point that the dublin bus drivers amongst us would try to cloud with nonsense about CCTV and trying to find out if it was used against a driver etc.

passenger safety is the most important consideration and any driver caught using their mobile for texting or other activities should be called back to the garage and sacked immediately and CCTV should be used to ensure the drivers are doing their job and not texting or ringing their missus, boyfriend, online poker account etc etc!

dfx-

robbie_998 wrote: »

There seems to be a few complaints floating around here why not just stick them all in the one thread ?

See the problem with that is the thread becomes a beacon for wading in for all kinds of defences. I still remember Unregistered's thread about being thrown off a 56A.

That thread was epic.