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UVF still active and killing people?

Comments

  • #2
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    ....well they have, afaik. That doesn't mean ex-members can't get up to no good off their own bat.


  • #3
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    It's interesting that any SF thread gets jumped on but no one has an opinion on this?

    It was reported in one of the papers today that since they started their ceasefire they have killed over 20 people, all of them protestants.


  • #4
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I heard it was a case of infighting?


  • #5
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Well lets say the loyalist leaderships did actually decide to fully decommission. It would be silly to think there'd be no dissidence amongst the ranks.

    Some members would have seen this coming years, even decades ago and undoubtedly pilfered away some weaponry.

    They've always been part of the drugs trade, no doubt still are given the financial income that brings. When you buy in quantities of drugs you usually get free guns thrown in. So the weapon used to kill this guy could even have come in after loyalists stopped killing "on behalf of Ulster"

    They haven't had many Republican killings to retaliate to in recent times which explains the lack of attacks on the nationalist community. If the soldiers and policemen attacked in the last while had of been northern Protestants I think it likely there would have been some.

    Reading the details on this latest attack it would appear it had nothing to do with the troubles. So it doesn't make them as a body any less dedicated to peace


  • #6
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    So it doesn't make them as a body any less dedicated to peace

    How do we know? The guns are still there to threaten that peace.

    All we have to go on from news reports is that 'it was a personal dispute between members'. And the way they carried it out the act in front of their own loyalist community in broad daylight in front of women & children was despicable.

    I just fear it won't be long before they turn their guns on innocent Nationalists.


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  • #7
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    gurramok wrote: »
    How do we know? The guns are still there to threaten that peace.

    There are guns amongst criminals in every country in the world. I think the point of decommissioning is that the army councils have chosen to abandon violence and destroy the weapons. We can't exactly ask them to do any more.
    All we have to go on from news reports is that 'it was a personal dispute between members'. And the way they carried it out the act in front of their own loyalist community in broad daylight in front of women & children was despicable.

    Its likely that's what it was, and not something ordered by leaders. And these types have no respect for their communites.
    I just fear it won't be long before they turn their guns on innocent Nationalists.

    Will only happen if militant Republicans kill northern Protestants(security forces or civilians) or a united Ireland starts looking to be on the cards in the near future. I'd be more worried about the former.


  • #8
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    The killings attributed to the UVF are, IMO, no different to the killings in Dublin, Limerick, Armagh or even Chicago in the 1920s. They are "mob" killings carried out to protect someone's patch.
    Attaching labels such as UVF or IRA to them only gives them a political respectability in the eyes of gullible people. Call them what they are.


  • #9
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gurramok wrote: »
    How do we know? The guns are still there to threaten that peace.

    All we have to go on from news reports is that 'it was a personal dispute between members'. And the way they carried it out the act in front of their own loyalist community in broad daylight in front of women & children was despicable.

    I just fear it won't be long before they turn their guns on innocent Nationalists.

    It's unlikely. A dissident group may emerge in the future, but it's a bit pointless in worrying about such hypotheticals.


  • #10
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    bmaxi wrote: »
    The killings attributed to the UVF are, IMO, no different to the killings in Dublin, Limerick, Armagh or even Chicago in the 1920s. They are "mob" killings carried out to protect someone's patch.
    Attaching labels such as UVF or IRA to them only gives them a political respectability in the eyes of gullible people. Call them what they are.

    Well the most recent killing and the events of the loyalist feuding in 2005 yes would completely agree.

    However go back a bit further when they were killing catholics for their community background or protestants who got killed due to their recklessness I think it naive to put it down to simple criminal killings. There was a political motive, and whilst that does not make the killings acceptable, it does make them different.


  • #11
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    karma_ wrote: »
    It's interesting that any SF thread gets jumped on but no one has an opinion on this?

    It was reported in one of the papers today that since they started their ceasefire they have killed over 20 people, all of them protestants.

    Why would they kill prodestants when they are Protestants


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  • #12
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    karma_ wrote: »
    It's interesting that any SF thread gets jumped on but no one has an opinion on this?

    It was reported in one of the papers today that since they started their ceasefire they have killed over 20 people, all of them protestants.

    I'm not sure what you are looking for. nodin summed it up in this post -
    Nodin wrote: »
    ....well they have, afaik. That doesn't mean ex-members can't get up to no good off their own bat.

    I have no doubt that ex UVF members are still carrying guns just as it is likely ex IRA members are still carrying them. just because the organisations opted to choose peace, it doesn.t mean all it's members will.

    the main objective imho, is to make sure these people don't re-rail the peace process and and that they are not able to influence younger members of the community.


  • #13
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Well the most recent killing and the events of the loyalist feuding in 2005 yes would completely agree.

    However go back a bit further when they were killing catholics for their community background or protestants who got killed due to their recklessness I think it naive to put it down to simple criminal killings. There was a political motive, and whilst that does not make the killings acceptable, it does make them different.

    I'm not talking about attacks carried out during the troubles, I'm talking about present day thuggery. It suits these people particularly in N.I., to hide behind political identities because there is still a misguided section of the public who attribute their activities to some or other "cause".


  • #14
    Big Mouth
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭Big Mouth


    karma_ wrote: »
    It's interesting that any SF thread gets jumped on but no one has an opinion on this?

    It was reported in one of the papers today that since they started their ceasefire they have killed over 20 people, all of them protestants.

    So True, have noticed that time and again on here. I remember when that poor man was killed about two years by 20 or so Loyalist scumbags who barged into a Catholic Estate and killed whoever was there, they even battered his heavliy pregnant wife and the debate on here as usual turned into an anti-IRA thread.

    Don't know why its so prevelant here, lots of people on here love to get a dig in against Republicans any chance they get. I bet none of them grew up in the North in the 60's, 70's & 80's....


  • #15
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    owenc wrote: »
    Why would they kill prodestants when they are Protestants

    ....you don't remember the UDA feud, the feud involving the LVF etc?


  • #16
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Big Mouth wrote: »
    So True, have noticed that time and again on here. I remember when that poor man was killed about two years by 20 or so Loyalist scumbags who barged into a Catholic Estate and killed whoever was there, they even battered his heavliy pregnant wife and the debate on here as usual turned into an anti-IRA thread.

    Don't know why its so prevelant here, lots of people on here love to get a dig in against Republicans any chance they get. I bet none of them grew up in the North in the 60's, 70's & 80's....

    I would hazard a guess and say that it is more a reflection on how the Republican movement and Sinn Fein in particular are viewed in Ireland than it is any love there is towards the Loyalists.

    The Loyalists are, speaking crudely, a bunch of thugs who are protecting their manner in a distant corner of this island, a bit like the thugs in Limerick or the drug barons in Finglas.

    They do not pretend to speak for the Irish people, or call anyone who disagrees with them a West Brit, or a traitor.

    The question is probably one the Republican movement needs to ask itself.


  • #17
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    They do not pretend to speak for the Irish people, or call anyone who disagrees with them a West Brit, or a traitor.

    They claim to speak for the 'Unionist people'. Well we know how they treat anyone who disagrees with them.


  • #18
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    gurramok wrote: »
    They claim to speak for the 'Unionist people'. Well we know how they treat anyone who disagrees with them.

    They certainly do not speak for the 'Unionist People', in the same way as the IRA/PIRA don't speak for the 'Nationalist people'.


  • #19
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    gurramok wrote: »
    They claim to speak for the 'Unionist people'.

    Sure any eejit could do that. Give yourself some name with Ulster and Defender in the title and claim responsibility for burning down a bin bag...there ye go. Hardly reason to blame the rest of the Unionists.


  • #20
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    gurramok wrote: »
    They claim to speak for the 'Unionist people'. Well we know how they treat anyone who disagrees with them.

    As far as Boards goes, I would say that is largely irrelevant as the vast majority of people on here live in the south and therefore (I guess) view them as someone else's idiot.


  • #21
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Nodin wrote: »
    ....you don't remember the UDA feud, the feud involving the LVF etc?

    the what? Sorry i don't pay too much attention to those terriorists.


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  • #22
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    gurramok wrote: »
    They claim to speak for the 'Unionist people'. Well we know how they treat anyone who disagrees with them.

    They don't speak for me anyway!


  • #23
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    owenc wrote: »
    the what? Sorry i don't pay too much attention to those terriorists.

    ....then why are you asking questions such as on the previous page of this thread? I gave you enough there to go look it up and you come back with that kind of remark?.....Seriously, if you aren't interested in the subject matter, don't bother posting.


  • #24
    PeterIanStaker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭PeterIanStaker


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0603/moffettb.html


    and sit back and watch this be ignored.


  • #25
    aDeener
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,487 ✭✭✭aDeener


    Big Mouth wrote: »
    So True, have noticed that time and again on here. I remember when that poor man was killed about two years by 20 or so Loyalist scumbags who barged into a Catholic Estate and killed whoever was there, they even battered his heavliy pregnant wife and the debate on here as usual turned into an anti-IRA thread.

    Don't know why its so prevelant here, lots of people on here love to get a dig in against Republicans any chance they get. I bet none of them grew up in the North in the 60's, 70's & 80's....

    to put in bluntly there is a horrible "cruiser" attitude on here :rolleyes:


  • #26
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    PeterIanStaker wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0603/moffettb.html


    and sit back and watch this be ignored.

    Is the pup not the really bigoted party, "the protestant unionsit party'"?


  • #27
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    owenc wrote: »
    Is the pup not the really bigoted party, "the protestant unionsit party'"?

    As far as I know its Progressive Unionist Party. The Protestant Unionist Party was set up by paisley but disbanded in 1971

    Dawn Purvis walking out. That's kind of worrying, can only assume she's doing that out of fear she'd lose her assembly seat. The fact that she's afraid of that must means there must be a lot of UVF members unhappy about not having weapons/refusing to hand over weapons.


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