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Cuts to one-parent family benefits

  • 29-05-2010 03:25PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭


    This post has been deleted.


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭AntiRip




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Add in the RS cost as well. Think its about €500m.

    Some posters on the AH thread seem to think despite the high out of wedlock birth rate, a single mother with 2 kids in Dublin should still be entitled to 1100 RS and 256 per week in the hand despite having free accommodation and free medical bills. And nothing to stop her having a 3rd kid without a father contributing.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/supplementary-welfare-schemes/rent_supplement


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    Do we know what the expected saving to the economy is in the short-term??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    This has been going all morning in the "further cuts to social welfare thread" but I agree that it should have a thread of its own. Anyway, my views;

    I believe that these cuts, and they are ones I welcome, are hopefully the first step in dismantling the welfare state. If I had my way, child benifit and single parents' allowance would be stopped altogether as I believe their absence would encourage sexual responsibility. I understand that accidents can happen but no state support would mitigate these issues and make teenagers and young adults realise that brining another life into the world is a decision that must be well thought out.

    Further, the days of 5-6 kids per family must become a thing of the past. With only one, many two children, parents could focus on raising child properly. With 5 kids, this becomes difficult and these days, there is simply too many people slacking off in their parenting duties which results in thousands of people growing up without contributing to society.

    If I ever had children, I will limit myself to one. This way, I could teach him / her proper life skills, the dangers of drink and drugs, music, art, literature and all the other great lessons my parents passed onto me. If I had 6 kids, I wouldn't have the time or the money. Time to change.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 959 ✭✭✭changes


    If the government are successful with this in the medium to long term then the savings will stretch beyond the social welfare bill. If alot more mothers begin working after their youngest child is 13 then they will be paying some tax and PRSI also

    Also, If they begin to earn decent money then they will no longer qualify for medical cards, clothing and footware allowance etc which come out of the Community Welfare Allowance & HSE budget.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    How exactly will this stop scroungers? Surely they'll just have another child when the yougest is nearly 13? I mean where I live there is one "mother" who has about 7 children, youngest is about 1 and they run wild around the town and there's no father to be seen, how will this bill stop people like this who will just reproduce again?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Blay wrote: »
    How exactly will this stop scroungers? Surely they'll just have another child when the yougest is nearly 13? I mean where I live there is one "mother" who has about 7 children, youngest is about 1 and they run wild around the town and there's no father to be seen, how will this bill stop people like this who will just reproduce again?


    It won't. Which is why I am in favour of stopping allowances for children altogether.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    It won't. Which is why I am in favour of stopping allowances for children altogether.

    That's a bit far in fairness, why should a child live in poverty because their parents are ignorant about contraception? These "people" won't get out and work just because they've had a child, it's just not their mentality, the child will just suffer.

    I can see your point of view on it, but I'd be more in favour of paying till the age of 13 for one child and no payments for subsequent children, an accident can happen once but paying out for 5/6/7 children and no father paying for any of them is ludicrous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    This post has been deleted.

    Make it economically unviable.

    Post from AH:
    Demonon wrote:
    Single mother with 3 children:

    LPA = €285.40 / week
    Child benefit = €487 / month
    Early childcare supplement (say 2 of the children are under 5) = €83 / month
    Rent supplement = (1 single parent with 3 children) = max rate of €1110 / month
    Medical card = ? hard to gauge an exact value to the state but it is still money moving from the state into private doctors on behalf of the lone parent

    All that adds up to €2917 / month or a yearly salary of €35,006 which actually equates to a pre-tax "salary" for a working person of roughly €42,000.

    It is economically viable to have kids as a 'single mother' based on the above entitlements.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    This post has been deleted.

    Then why bring in legislation that will be cancelled out by people doing the exact thing it's trying to prevent ie. having children carelessly?

    This isn't going to stop people having multiple children just so they can collect the dole, it's just going to result in more children being produced in order to finance the ones already in being.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 377 ✭✭whatisayis


    gurramok wrote: »
    Make it economically unviable.

    Post from AH:
    Originally Posted by Demonon
    Single mother with 3 children:

    LPA = €285.40 / week
    Child benefit = €487 / month
    Early childcare supplement (say 2 of the children are under 5) = €83 / month
    Rent supplement = (1 single parent with 3 children) = max rate of €1110 / month
    Medical card = ? hard to gauge an exact value to the state but it is still money moving from the state into private doctors on behalf of the lone parent

    All that adds up to €2917 / month or a yearly salary of €35,006 which actually equates to a pre-tax "salary" for a working person of roughly €42,000.

    It is economically viable to have kids as a 'single mother' based on the above entitlements.

    In the interest of fairness the figure of €1110/month for rent allowance is not received by the claimant. The claimant has to pay something like €25 a week towards the rent and the balance is paid directly by the government to the landlord.

    Therefore the yearly amount would be €21,686.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭dean21


    i think it is time this was done
    When there kids are in second level school they should not be allowed to sit at home a do nothing.
    It will also be better in the longterm for them when they are back in the work force


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 712 ✭✭✭BOHSBOHS


    incorrect

    the rent allowance is paid to the claimant


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭dean21


    RichardAnd wrote: »
    It won't. Which is why I am in favour of stopping allowances for children altogether.
    But we need more kids to pay for you when you are old


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,351 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Blay wrote: »
    How exactly will this stop scroungers? Surely they'll just have another child when the yougest is nearly 13? I mean where I live there is one "mother" who has about 7 children, youngest is about 1 and they run wild around the town and there's no father to be seen, how will this bill stop people like this who will just reproduce again?
    The fool me once, fool me twice principle.

    Where the father can't be identified at birth for 2nd and subsequent children, then NO payment should be made in respect of a child.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 215 ✭✭dean21


    whatisayis wrote: »
    In the interest of fairness the figure of €1110/month for rent allowance is not received by the claimant. The claimant has to pay something like €25 a week towards the rent and the balance is paid directly by the government to the landlord.

    Therefore the yearly amount would be €21,686.
    That dose not matter
    they dont have to find money for rent or mortgage so you can take the €1110 as income


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    dean21 wrote: »
    But we need more kids to pay for you when you are old


    They only pay if they work which many of the kids described in the post I replied to will never do. Also, I need no one to pay for me when I am old because I am saving for my retirement already and I'm still the right side of 30.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    gurramok wrote: »
    Make it economically unviable.

    Post from AH:


    It is economically viable to have kids as a 'single mother' based on the above entitlements.

    Single mother with 3 children:

    LPA = €285.40 / week
    Child benefit = €487 / month
    Early childcare supplement (say 2 of the children are under 5) = €83 / month
    Rent supplement = (1 single parent with 3 children) = max rate of €1110 / month
    Medical card = ? hard to gauge an exact value to the state but it is still money moving from the state into private doctors on behalf of the lone parent


    Early child care is gone already so scratch that off your list.
    one parent family with three kids in council house,rent paid every week 28:50 with out any additional money.With view to buy.
    Child benefit goes to everyone!!!!!

    Medical cards how many times a year does a kid see a doctor three if even.
    Unless they are very ill and then you would like to see them with no help at all?
    p.s FIS is not given to all single mothers or mothers who work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,669 ✭✭✭Colonel Sanders


    whatisayis wrote: »
    In the interest of fairness the figure of €1110/month for rent allowance is not received by the claimant. The claimant has to pay something like €25 a week towards the rent and the balance is paid directly by the government to the landlord.

    Therefore the yearly amount would be €21,686.

    What Dean said
    dean21 wrote: »
    That dose not matter
    they dont have to find money for rent or mortgage so you can take the €1110 as income

    People who don't claim rent supplement have to pay mortgages/rent. How ever this comes out of net income so even though they may earn €X net of tax a certain amount of this has to go on rent/mortgage


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Blay wrote: »
    How exactly will this stop scroungers? Surely they'll just have another child when the yougest is nearly 13? I mean where I live there is one "mother" who has about 7 children, youngest is about 1 and they run wild around the town and there's no father to be seen, how will this bill stop people like this who will just reproduce again?


    They are in their minority,and you will find that with parents who have jobs and both in the picture.
    Don't stereo type;)
    My sister is a single parent her kids are with her all the time and they do not roam the streets one of them wants to be a solicitor and the other a fire man.
    Her kids are a credit to her and so are many of the single parents i have seen.
    Stereo typing is a horrible thing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,938 ✭✭✭caseyann


    I have a question for anyone who can answer me this please thanks.

    Does this apply to only women who are allowed to work in Ireland.
    Or will refugees who are single mothers and are not permitted to work be cut also?
    How does that work :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 365 ✭✭DJDC


    The unproductive inefficient Catholic countries (and Greece) of Europe are totally in the sh*t due to years of corruption, misallocation of resources combined with a lack of work ethic and lax attitudes towards law enforcement. A property bubble has ruined Ireland and Spain cant hide the same problem using off-balance sheet accounting for much longer.

    The euros decline is a direct consquence of these countries inability to create a sustainable dynamic economy. Frankly, its as much the Germans faults for allowing in countries which just dont share the Anglo-Saxon work ethic.

    A direct consquence of all this is that serious pressure is being put on these failed states by the Germans and the French as a last ditch attempt at recovering their debt. A person from the ECB will quite simply look at the Irish govt books and laugh/cry at the ridicilous wages paid to civil servants and entitlements paid out in job allowances, child welfare payments etc etc. They will not tolerate the Irish, Italians et al. ruining the Eurozone with their massive budgetary imbalances.

    They are all going to be cut, this is just the start.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 725 ✭✭✭rightwingdub


    One parent family payment should be eliminated when the youngest child reaches 5.

    Single parents under 30 should live at home with their parents


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    One parent family payment should be eliminated when the youngest child reaches 5.

    Single parents under 30 should live at home with their parents
    Riiight... do their parents get a say in this?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,472 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    caseyann wrote: »
    They are in their minority,and you will find that with parents who have jobs and both in the picture.
    Don't stereo type;)
    My sister is a single parent her kids are with her all the time and they do not roam the streets one of them wants to be a solicitor and the other a fire man.
    Her kids are a credit to her and so are many of the single parents i have seen.
    Stereo typing is a horrible thing.


    I'm not stereotyping at all, I've no grievance against genuine people like your sister at all, more power to her, her sons and their dreams:).

    But I live in a town where the other spectrum of this situation live, people who abuse the system openly as I've outlined, people who the governmant are trying to target with this legislation when really all they have to do is have more children(making the problem worse essentially) and carry on claiming social welfare, living with the father but not declaring it and letting their children run riot with no control because they don't care about them or what they do.

    That's what I'm trying to draw attention to^, not people who are genuinely on Lone Parents Allowance and don't abuse it as above.


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