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Transgender pronouns

  • 28-05-2010 11:21pm
    #1
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,157 ✭✭✭✭


    Are there specific ways to refer to transsexuals - I know we touched on this last week but I'd like to know more about what is the best terminology to use - Is it for example offensive to refer to a pre op MTF as 'he' - what terminology is the best to use in order to avoid offence
    Please DO NOT mention grammar - This is not about what is grammatically correct

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



Comments

  • #2
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    Is it for example offensive to refer to a pre op MTF as 'he'

    Assuming they're in transition and appearing as female, then yes, it is offensive and hurtful.


  • #3
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,157 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Links234 wrote: »
    Assuming they're in transition and appearing as female, then yes, it is offensive and hurtful.
    OK but what if the person is not in transition or appearing as female?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #4
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    OK but what if the person is not in transition or appearing as female?

    Then I'd assume they're probably not out to anyone or only a few people and would still be referred to with he/him/his? The reason it's hurtful to someone in transition is because they are taking enormous steps to leave that part of their life behind and open a new chapter, and it undermines that person's efforts by being referred to by a pronoun you don't want to be associated with any more and have asked people not to use.

    Just try to refer to someone who identifies as female with female pronouns, and someone who identifies as male with male pronouns. Don't worry if slip up, it happens, and a lot of trans people will still experience people calling them their old names and by the wrong pronouns by mistake or out of habit, and will be understanding. It's a bit of a transition for everyone else as well, friends, family or coworkers, it is a lot for some people to take in.

    It's more about context. It's not necessarily offensive to call a MtF 'he' but if someone knows what they identify as and insist on calling them by the wrong pronouns, then yeah, that's offensive.


  • #5
    Freiheit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭Freiheit


    It's important though to understand that if someone doesn't use ones prreferred terminology to be understanding, at least initially as there is unlikely to be offence intended.

    There isn't universal agreement amongst 'Transgendered ' people as to terminology, some reject the terms Transgender and Transsexual or the term G.I.D. (Gender Identity Disorder,a worldwide source of current debate). Significant numbes do not view themselves as having a disorder and reject the medical categorisation of them as such.

    I have frequently used the term Gender Queer as well as Transgender , which to me refers to androgny, a queering of traditional gender norms.

    Some reject the term Transsexual as they don't consider themselves as ever having been their 'birth assigned gender' and therfore they are not 'transgressing' anything.

    Terminology is quite an individual thing and I'd always try to ascertain from each individual what they prefer to use, but I ask all to be tolerant of well meaning mistakes!


  • #6
    Chuchoter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Chuchoter


    If they're mtf you use she, ftm you use he. I don't think anyone would really take offence at an honest slip of the tongue but if you consistently on purpose use the wrong word then thats bad.


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  • #7
    Aoifums
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭Aoifums


    I'm just wondering if someone can answer this for me. Someone who used to be my friend is trans(mtf) and was out to some people but not transitioning. I was the first or second person she came out to. When I was talking about her in a group of people who I couldn't tell if she was out to or not, I'd always use male pronouns. She'd get mega pissy though. Was I doing the right thing or not? I reckoned better to be offended than to be outed.


  • #8
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Ask her, I totally understand you being careful, I know people who cross dress and who are transitioning and usually will refer to them as the gender the are currently presenting but it can be hard when they are not around and come up in converstaion, you can just use thier name and play the pronoun game, well i was talking to X abd they said ect but as to how out they are ask them.


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