The economy is sorted and building is restarting.

ScouseMouse

The recession must be over as building has restarted!

As everyone knows, we have thousands of vacant apartments, hundreds of ghost estates, and various other empty property.

So why has a new estate started in Killinarden, Dublin 24? There must be a couple of hundred empty apartments barely a mile away at the square, but there obviously is a need for new houses. I saw a sign yesterday about luxury 3 bed houses being built by Kelland Homes.

AND, on monday, An bord Pleannala, approved this:

http://www.sdublincoco.ie/index.aspx?pageid=144&regref=SD09A/0021

So we have a new hotel (two closed in Tallaght already with more in deep doo-doo), a shopping centre and a heap more apartments.

Did I miss the news everything was ok?

dan_d

Probably the same reason that this is being built.

http://www.dwyernolanhomes.ie/theforge/index.html

As locals, we're all watching in astonishment. They've nearly finished the first phase and are readying the ground for the second.

Where are they getting the money???

rightwingdub

How much will they be offering for 3 bed houses, there will be plenty of gullible people willing to pay over the odds?

RichardAnd

Hold on guys, simply because building has taken a serious hit does not mean it has halted all together. There are thousands of empty houses yes, but alot of them are in places no one would want to live. I don't know about these projects but don't be so quick to assume that construction is dead because it isn't.

ScouseMouse

RichardAnd wrote: »

Hold on guys, simply because building has taken a serious hit does not mean it has halted all together. There are thousands of empty houses yes, but alot of them are in places no one would want to live. I don't know about these projects but don't be so quick to assume that construction is dead because it isn't.

The Kelland building is going on about a mile from, maybe, 200 empty apartments at the square, tallaght.

RichardAnd

superscouse wrote: »

The Kelland building is going on about a mile from, maybe, 200 empty apartments at the square, tallaght.

Like I said, I don't know anything about these projects. I was simply making the point that building will always be going on to some extent.

Andrew33

RichardAnd wrote: »

Hold on guys, simply because building has taken a serious hit does not mean it has halted all together. There are thousands of empty houses yes, but alot of them are in places no one would want to live.

And Killinarden is a place people will be falling over themselves to live in??
No disrespect to people in Killinarden but D16 it ain't.(or any other reasonably desirable post code)

rightwingdub

Andrew33 wrote: »

And Killinarden is a place people will be falling over themselves to live in??
No disrespect to people in Killinarden but D16 it ain't.(or any other reasonably desirable post code)

My sentiments entirely, Killinarden is an absolute sh**hole, I'd sooner commute from Portlaoise then live in that crime ridden dump.

ScouseMouse

Andrew33 wrote: »

And Killinarden is a place people will be falling over themselves to live in??
No disrespect to people in Killinarden but D16 it ain't.(or any other reasonably desirable post code)

The area really isnt relevant. The fact there are a couple of hundred vacant apartments probably is.

And what about the other one in Palmerstown?

A hotel ????
A heap of apartments ????
A shopping centre ????

What the.....

maninasia

Some of it may be related to planning permission. Also, some place deposits were taken so they have to construct and then people have to pay.

NAMA or banks may also be involved, if they don't do anything the value of the asset may drop on their books so it may be better to develop even if no market exists.

Lurching

Look at it another way, land was at a premium price over the last couple of years, as well as materials and labour. Houses that were built just before the crash were inhibitively expensive to build. Fast forward to now, some sections of land are selling for 5% of what the same land was making 5 years ago. Add that to the cost of materials and labour now and you have a cheaper built house. This means the developers can sell for similar prices as the ghost estates are asking and still be making money.

Also, I think its great. The best way out of recession is for people to start spending money again. Theres plenty of people around that do still have money but are afraid to buy anything.

dan_d

As for the Dwyer Nolan development, they've had that land for about 6/7 years now, and it's been a wasteland. Then they suddenly started building on it last year?? Weird.
They're looking for about 245,000. Could go lower, given what's for sale around them. Lusk isn't too bad as a location - but it's still very strange.

And I work in construction.

It may not be clinically dead, but it's definitely in it's death throes.:D

johnnyskeleton

RichardAnd wrote: »

Hold on guys, simply because building has taken a serious hit does not mean it has halted all together. There are thousands of empty houses yes, but alot of them are in places no one would want to live. I don't know about these projects but don't be so quick to assume that construction is dead because it isn't.

Also, even in good locations the available housing stock is often of very poor build quality, size etc.

If you bought a site at 95% what was paid in 2006, got contractors in to do the work at 50% of the cost in 2006 and obtained materials at a similar discount, you could probably build houses that could seriously undercut the market and make a tidy profit for yourself.

That is one of the main things we need for the market to correct itself - some enterprising folk who realise they can make a profit by making better homes for less.

ei.sdraob

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Also, even in good locations the available housing stock is often of very poor build quality, size etc.

If you bought a site at 95% what was paid in 2006, got contractors in to do the work at 50% of the cost in 2006 and obtained materials at a similar discount, you could probably build houses that could seriously undercut the market and make a tidy profit for yourself.

That is one of the main things we need for the market to correct itself - some enterprising folk who realise they can make a profit by making better homes for less.

raises hand

tho i have no intention of selling, need a place to live an work in

there's work in full swing on my site, but neither I nor the builders/contractors are under any impressions of any "recovery"
many are happy to be working and putting in extra effort it seems

things certainly have changed a lot, labour is cheaper and more skilled, tho materials haven't really gone down, and of course there's VAT on everything...

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

some enterprising folk who realise they can make a profit by making better homes for less.

a lot of builders have realised that, and they also realize that people (who still have money) don't want to live in shoe-boxes or estates
the problem for them is liquidity
if the bank is not willing to give them money (and rightly so) then that's a lost opportunity (for them)


but yes thats how markets meant to work, people who make mistakes are meant to get burned and the prudent win out

unfortunately with all the bailouts and incoming taxation the irresponsible are hell bent on socialising their losses

ScouseMouse

dan_d wrote: »

As for the Dwyer Nolan development, they've had that land for about 6/7 years now, and it's been a wasteland. Then they suddenly started building on it last year?? Weird.
They're looking for about 245,000. Could go lower, given what's for sale around them. Lusk isn't too bad as a location - but it's still very strange.

And I work in construction.

It may not be clinically dead, but it's definitely in it's death throes.:D

As of this morning, the new superdump has been approved for Lusk. There seems to be lots of precautions about smells and whatnot, written into the permission, but this must kill any desire to live in Lusk?

But back to the main point about more developments.

What about another hotel in Palmerstown, the couple of hundred apartments, another new shopping centre. There cannot be need for them.

gurramok

superscouse wrote: »

What about another hotel in Palmerstown, the couple of hundred apartments, another new shopping centre. There cannot be need for them.

It maybe for a redevelopment of existing shops there, it looks like small scale local retail. The existing shops are not really appealing to the local populace. The apts are probably been built to maximise use of space and hope they sell them on at some price in the future

And the hotel, well it's on the N4 so should be able to get some business.

astrofool

I don't think people realise the profits builders were making. Building the houses is relatively cheap, with land costs well down, a builder can start a new site, and undercut all the competition, because they don't have massive loans to pay back, that stops the competition dropping their prices.

ei.sdraob

astrofool wrote: »

I don't think people realise the profits builders were making. Building the houses is relatively cheap, with land costs well down, a builder can start a new site, and undercut all the competition, because they don't have massive loans to pay back, that stops the competition dropping their prices.

They still need money to build, yes it cheaper, but no money no work

if the bank are not lending it then that means some of them were prudent and saved up

and its quite a risk to be building now just to sell on considering there's so much supply

the_syco

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and its quite a risk to be building now just to sell on considering there's so much supply

There is a large supply of expensive houses in certain places. Build cheap houses, and the they'll be sold, I'd say.

=-=

As for the shopping centre in Palmerstown, with Liffey Valley so close, it will have to be a small local thing, or it'll die.

ei.sdraob

the_syco wrote: »

There is a large supply of expensive houses in certain places. Build cheap houses, and the they'll be sold, I'd say.

you are then betting that the properties NAMA is holding dont flood the market

dan_d

superscouse wrote: »

As of this morning, the new superdump has been approved for Lusk. There seems to be lots of precautions about smells and whatnot, written into the permission, but this must kill any desire to live in Lusk?

But back to the main point about more developments.

What about another hotel in Palmerstown, the couple of hundred apartments, another new shopping centre. There cannot be need for them.

I grew up there with Baleally down the road, and it was just one of those things, but yeah, I would imagine it would put people off...though the new dump is actually in the townlands around the lusk/Ballyboughal area, and not in Lusk at all. Nor is it anywhere near those houses.

But anyway I'm surprised they got permission for the Palmerstown development. Obviously our planners have still not got it together enough to actually review the process for granting planning, and whether something is required or not.

thebman

All they have to do is put in some insulation and it will be better than boom time accommodation which will become part of nama before we tear it down when it becomes worthless.

New energy rating on houses will make sure everyone knows how crap the boom time houses really are and then those houses will be worthless without major works.

AlekSmart

New energy rating on houses will make sure everyone knows how crap the boom time houses really are and then those houses will be worthless without major works.

So true,whilst the BER certificate pahlavah can be regarded as yet another cost layered atop the levied folks already considerable burden of deductions it does have a major upside too.

That upside ,as spotted by thebman is the imposition of transparency on the specifications of much of the recently built housing stock.

It`s widely suspected that a high proportion of properties built during our boom will not meet or struggle to meet the BER ratings expected of them.

THESE types of build should be demolished IMMEDIATELY and their potential purchasers directed towards the newer higher rated developments.

NAMA or whatever should NOT be seen by the development industry as some sort of giant construction sewage plant to treat and store their toxic built waste until we reunite our fools and money once more :mad:

Mister men

dan_d wrote: »

Probably the same reason that this is being built.

http://www.dwyernolanhomes.ie/theforge/index.html

As locals, we're all watching in astonishment. They've nearly finished the first phase and are readying the ground for the second.

Where are they getting the money???

250,000 for a tiny three bed in Lusk? :eek: When are these guy's going to get real.

thebman

Mister men wrote: »

250,000 for a tiny three bed in Lusk? :eek: When are these guy's going to get real.

As soon as the number of defaults increases, anyone even considering buying at these prices will be running away.

Anyway they never get those prices at this stage, they are "guide prices" and they'll even try to convince you they have higher offers to try to get stupid people to put in higher offers.

People need to realise these people are snake oil salesmen and have no interest in the person buying or fairness. The are leaches that will exploit whoever they can to get them to pay the most for whatever house they thinking to buy and think what they do is fine because they didn't force you into leaving your common sense at the door. They just tried to sucker you in and play mind games with you to try to get you to pay more which is good business in their books. Any picture you can imagine of a good businessman wanting to sell a quality product at a fair price to the customer does not apply in the world of selling houses.

The worst kind of businessmen. No long term strategy and no desire to do right by their customers. They want to screw you over on the biggest purchase of your life which will leave you in long term death. Do your own homework and don't trust these people.

ei.sdraob

Mister men wrote: »

250,000 for a tiny three bed in Lusk? :eek: When are these guy's going to get real.

These houses at The Forge are set to achieve an A3 - B1 BER (Building Energy Rating)* incorporating the following features:
• Super High Levels of insulation throughout
• Solar Powered Hot Water System
• Minimised Thermal Bridging
• Improved Airtightness Throughout
• High Standard External Windows and Doors / Low U values
• ‘A’ Rated Energy Efficient Gas Combination Boiler

my god

are they actually trying to make following the latest building regulations and standards

a selling point? :eek:



anyways here are some photos and here


btw if you have land (or a quire some for cheap..) 250K can build you a 3 times larger detached home to a much higher standard than this ghost estate in the back arse of nowhere

ragg

Mister men wrote: »

250,000 for a tiny three bed in Lusk? :eek: When are these guy's going to get real.

The houses are far from tiny and they amount of people in viewing them on the open day was unbelievable. Literally hundreds of people.

Hasn't been another day since, leads to believe they have sold the first few

gurramok

ragg wrote: »

The houses are far from tiny and they amount of people in viewing them on the open day was unbelievable. Literally hundreds of people.

Hasn't been another day since, leads to believe they have sold the first few

Evidence or just your word?

ei.sdraob

ragg wrote: »

The houses are far from tiny and they amount of people in viewing them on the open day was unbelievable. Literally hundreds of people.

Hasn't been another day since, leads to believe they have sold the first few

the 3 beds are 104 Sq. Metres (1,119 Sq. Feet)

that's a whooping 228 euro a square foot :eek:

are these houses lined with gold or something?
are they located close to the city center or some other highly desirable location??



to put things into perspective average cost of building to latest regulations and kitting out a house with kitchen furniture is in the region of 80 to 120 euro a sq foot
im myself completing a detached home for under 100e a sq foot, that includes the value of land, extensive groundworks and landscaping, the house itself, putting in good finishes/floors/kitchen and of course following and going above all latest regulations like insulation/solar heating/waste water treatment

Andrew33

ragg wrote: »

The houses are far from tiny and they amount of people in viewing them on the open day was unbelievable. Literally hundreds of people.

Hasn't been another day since, leads to believe they have sold the first few

And a nice new SUPERDUMP on your doorstep! I'd be well wary of buying anywhere around Lusk til I knew exactly where thats going to be in relation to prevailing winds.

ragg

Andrew33 wrote: »

And a nice new SUPERDUMP on your doorstep! I'd be well wary of buying anywhere around Lusk til I knew exactly where thats going to be in relation to prevailing winds.

The old dump is far closer then the new one to Lusk