Toyota unintended acceleration claimed 89 lives in US

unkel

Article

NHTSA claims Toyota unintended acceleration may have claimed 89 lives

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is now estimating that 89 deaths may be attributable to unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles here in the United States between the year 2000 and May of 2009. Previously, it was reported that 52 deaths were possibly related to the throttle defect.

This figure has been extrapolated from NHTSA's database of the roughly 6,200 complaints it has received over that same time period. In addition to the 89 deaths, 57 injuries have also been tallied. Toyota reminds us that these figures are estimates, saying in a statement:
Many complaints in the NHTSA database, for any manufacturer, lack sufficient detail that could help identify the cause of an accident. We will continue to work in close partnership with law enforcement agencies and federal regulators with jurisdiction over accident scenes whenever requested.
According to Toyota, some 1.67 million sticky accelerator pedals and 1.62 million floor mats have so far been fixed under recall, with roughly 120,000 being performed per week on average.

[Source: The Washington Post | Image: Justin Sullivan/Getty]

I Was VB

Ah just tell them to buy a Carina.

JHMEG

You may have left the "may have" from the article title out of the thread title

unkel

JHMEG wrote: »

You may have left the "may have" from the article title out of the thread title

Aye. I left other bits out as well like "NHTSA". Sometimes it's better to have a more concise thread title on boards.ie. You did notice I copied the full thread title into the thread though?

BTW just googled and found out the original article was published in the Washington Post, surely on of the most respected newspapers in the world. Not a sign of any "may have" in their title...

So 89 deaths times what, a modest enough $10+ million dollar compensation payout and we're talking a billion dollars here! And this is only the start and only in the US. What's next?

Gov't: 89 deaths tied to Toyota acceleration

By KEN THOMAS
The Associated Press
Tuesday, May 25, 2010; 6:36 PM


WASHINGTON -- Unintended acceleration in Toyota vehicles may have been involved in the deaths of 89 people over the past decade, upgrading the number of deaths possibly linked to the massive recalls, the government said Tuesday.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said that from 2000 to mid-May, it had received more than 6,200 complaints involving sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles. The reports include 89 deaths and 57 injuries over the same period. Previously, 52 deaths had been suspected of being connected to the problem.

Toyota Motor Corp. has recalled more than 8 million vehicles worldwide since last fall because of problems with gas pedals, floor mats and brakes. The Japanese automaker paid a record $16.4 million fine for its slow response to an accelerator pedal recall and is facing hundreds of state and federal lawsuits.

Toyota said in a statement that it "sympathizes with the individuals and families involved in any accident involving our vehicles. We are making an all-out effort to ensure our vehicles are safe and we remain committed to investigating reported incidents of unintended acceleration in our vehicles quickly."



The automaker said "many complaints in the NHTSA database, for any manufacturer, lack sufficient detail that could help identify the cause of an accident. We will continue to work in close partnership with law enforcement agencies and federal regulators with jurisdiction over accident scenes whenever requested."

In the aftermath of the recalls, Congress is considering upgrading auto safety laws to stiffen potential penalties against automakers, give the government more powers to demand a recall and push car companies to meet new safety standards.

Toyota's U.S. sales chief, Jim Lentz, told Congress last week that dealers have fixed nearly 3.5 million vehicles under the recall and the company and its dealers have conducted 2,000 inspections of vehicles. Lentz said there was no evidence that electronics are to blame for the sudden acceleration reports.

NHTSA administrator David Strickland told lawmakers the agency had spoken to nearly 100 vehicle owners who said they had unintended acceleration following a recall fix but NHTSA had not seen pedal entrapment or sticky accelerators in any vehicles that have been properly repaired.

The government is investigating acceleration problems in Toyotas and a separate 15-month study by the National Academy of Sciences is scheduled to begin in July.

samsemtex

I don't know. How can they prove that any of these cases were caused by sticky accelerator pedals? I cant see all of these cases ending up with payouts as it is simply too hard to prove what the cause was.

Cookie_Monster

89 idiots who couldn't turn off the car, stick it in neutral or jam on the brakes and handbrake.

Mr Benevolent

It's not sticky pedals, it's now ECU problems.

89 idiots who couldn't turn off the car, stick it in neutral or jam and the brakes and handbrake.

The ECU also disabled cutoff overrun and the autobox disables dropping into neutral at high speed.

That said...

samsemtex

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

89 idiots who couldn't turn off the car, stick it in neutral or jam and the brakes and handbrake.

Ah now, some of them could have been passengers to be fair.

Alun

Are there any recorded instances of his happening anywhere apart from the US? Not wanting to cast any aspersions or anything, but .....

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

Aye. I left other bits out as well like "NHTSA".

Which didn't materially change the meaning, unlike your other edit.

unkel wrote: »

Sometimes it's better to have a more concise thread title on boards.ie.

We have plenty of garbage thread titles without adding to them

I.S.T.

samsemtex wrote: »

I don't know. How can they prove that any of these cases were caused by sticky accelerator pedals? I cant see all of these cases ending up with payouts as it is simply too hard to prove what the cause was.

Exactly. I don't see how the can come to any firm conclusions without evidence. It is very easy for someone to blame an accident on a sticky pedal. Funny how they are coming down so hard on Toyota in the states all of a sudden. The more suspicious person might think there is an ulterior motive at play here!

KamiKazi

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Exactly. I don't see how the can come to any firm conclusions without evidence. It is very easy for someone to blame an accident on a sticky pedal. Funny how they are coming down so hard on Toyota in the states all of a sudden. The more suspicious person might think there is an ulterior motive at play here!

American car sales ++

the_syco

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

89 idiots who couldn't turn off the car, stick it in neutral or jam on the brakes and handbrake.

Ever being at a T junction, waiting to go? Now imagine your car suddenly decides to go forward, when a truck is coming.

slave1

89 idiots who couldn't turn off the car, stick it in neutral or jam on the brakes and handbrake.

Or folk in a car other than a Toyota that got caught up in the accident, pedestrians etc, bit of a harsh comment that.

ShadowHearth

Confab wrote: »

It's not sticky pedals, it's now ECU problems.



The ECU also disabled cutoff overrun and the autobox disables dropping into neutral at high speed.

That said...

lol you made my day there . ill ninja that pic for future

Its a shame toyota hit the mud so badly, but worse thing is, that they knew about this problem and kept it silent...

I agree with lads here, it would be very very very hard to prove accsident was, becouse of jamed pedal.

fonecrusher1

Meh....yadda yadda yadda, look im sure theres plenty of big car manufacturers who have had serious mechanical issues gone unchecked & possibly could have caused many road deaths but the information has been either been very well hidden from the public or was never proven to have been caused by a manufacturing fault in the first place.

Yes its terrible that people have died due to these toyota accelerator issues but by christ are the competition enjoying & making sure its very well publicized. Especially the recently struggling american car makers who between them couldn't build a flat-pack cupboard from argos.:rolleyes: Yup a few toyota's have had serious accelerator problems but yank cars are still ****e & no matter how much they point their fingers at toyota thats still a fact.

Awful lot of people out there are chuffed to bits (& really only see this as an opportunity for one-upmanship) about toyota's recent bad press because they're Japanese & lets face it the Japs make the most reliable cars in the world so fans of european/american cars are delighted at toyota's fall from grace.
Something the american car industry need never worry about because when your at the bottom you can't fall.

SV

This is natural selection at it's very best to be honest.

JHMEG

SV wrote: »

This is natural selection at it's very best to be honest.

Being a Renault owner you would have to say that!

Could as easily have been you!

Whistleblower reveals car giant Renault's cover-up to Watchdog

SV

JHMEG wrote: »

Being a Renault owner you would have to say that!

Could as easily have been you!

Whistleblower reveals car giant Renault's cover-up to Watchdog

Not really..
those bonnet catches that were 'flying open' weren't even catching properly when closed so were always a bit loose and moving around.

again..natural selection, anyone with an iota of intelligence would know something wasn't right.





and HOW does being a Renault owner have anything to do with this? :rolleyes:

Esel

SV wrote: »

This is natural selection at it's very best to be honest.

This is stupid posting at it's very best to be honest.

jackofalltrades

Cookie_Monster wrote:

89 idiots who couldn't turn off the car, stick it in neutral or jam on the brakes and handbrake.

Or 1 car manufacturer who couldn't design their cars so that when you hold down the brake pedal it cuts the throttle.

SV wrote:

This is natural selection at it's very best to be honest.

:rolleyes: I'm sure you'd still be of the same opinion if it was you're mother or sister that had passed away.

SV

esel wrote: »

This is excellent posting at it's very best to be honest.

Aw, thanks!

jackofalltrades wrote: »

:rolleyes: I'm sure you'd still be of the same opinion if it was you're mother or sister that had passed away.

I'd hope they wouldn't be that fúcking stupid.

JHMEG

SV wrote: »

and HOW does being a Renault owner have anything to do with this? :rolleyes:

Helping to keep everyone focussed on another marque's unreliability

SV

JHMEG wrote: »

Helping to keep everyone focussed on another marque's unreliability

I wasn't?
I'm blaming the 'victims', not the manufacturer.

learn to read, if you're up to the challenge.

Esel

SV wrote: »

I'd hope they wouldn't be that fúcking stupid.

I wouldn't bet on that....

SV

esel wrote: »

I wouldn't bet on that....

I would.
I wouldn't be so sure about your own though, best they don't buy a toyota!(or well..any car for that matter)

JHMEG

SV wrote: »

I wasn't?
I'm blaming the 'victims', not the manufacturer.

learn to read, if you're up to the challenge.

Hey buddy keep your hair on! And learn to express yourself properly. And get some anger management classes while you're at it.

Kepti

Without knowing the exact circumstances in which these people died, assuming they died because of their own stupidity is itself stupid.

-Chris-

Attack the post and not the poster, people. You know the rules...

SV

Kepti wrote: »

Without knowing the exact circumstances in which these people died, assuming they died because of their own stupidity is itself stupid.

The circumstances are kind of irrelevant really, the fact is that they didn't know how to stop a car that had the throttle stuck open.. That's just plain stupidity.

Wasn't their a case of this where a guy rang 911 as he didn't know how to slow his car down? Lol.. Again, natural selection does it's job. Though not for that guy unfortunately.

I.S.T.

SV wrote: »

The circumstances are kind of irrelevant really, the fact is that they didn't know how to stop a car that had the throttle stuck open.. That's just plain stupidity.

Have you been in a situation where the throttle was stuck open in a car you were driving?

-Chris-

I presume most of the cars involved in the US were automatic.

If the throttle jams open on an auto, can you ram it into neutral?
If you kill the ignition, how will the auto 'box react?

SV

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

Have you been in a situation where the throttle was stuck open in a car you were driving?

The throttle is usually fully open regardless
But unintentionally, nope! Wouldn't mind it too much though..not exactly a big deal unless you panic and decide to ring the emergency services instead.. lol

Zubeneschamali

-Chris- wrote: »

If you kill the ignition, how will the auto 'box react?

One issue seems to be that in Lexussesses and Priiii you don't have a key to turn off the ignition, and pressing the Start/Stop button has no effect while in motion unless you hold it down for three full seconds. Many drivers of such cars are unaware of this.

Zubeneschamali

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Now I havent driven a prius but the majority of cars I have driven if you stand on the brakes as hard as you can it will stop even if the throttle is fully open. That includes a few single seater race cars and high end M BMW`s. So why arent these people doing that?

They are idiots.

I've read a few accounts of the problem by drivers, and more than one says that they put the car into neutral, but the engine got louder so they put it back in gear!

It also appears that several cooked their brakes with lots of half-hearted attempts to slow down instead of a full-bore emergency stop.

Car and Driver tested the options and found that foot-to-the-floor braking will stop any car even with the throttle wide open at 70 mph

SV

LIGHTNING wrote: »

. So why arent these people doing that?

Dare I say...Americans? :eek:

and oh..yeah it's all so tragic and we shouldn't dare call them idiots, even though it's entirely their own fault they died.
and the fact is they died because of their stupidity.


Darwin awards for all!

jackofalltrades

Lightning wrote:

Now I havent driven a prius but the majority of cars I have driven if you stand on the brakes as hard as you can it will stop even if the throttle is fully open. That includes a few single seater race cars and high end M BMW`s. So why arent these people doing that?

Because a lot of people panic and do the wrong thing. Its been proven that in emergency situations the vast majority of people don't brake hard enough.

How many people out there are aware of the issue of Target Fixation, probably very few, hence why people crash straight into other cars rather than trying to steer around them.

The average driver is very average at driving, cars should be designed to take this into account.

Joe 90

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Now I havent driven a prius but the majority of cars I have driven if you stand on the brakes as hard as you can it will stop even if the throttle is fully open. That includes a few single seater race cars and high end M BMW`s. So why arent these people doing that?

You are talking about people who bought a Prious in the first place.

Zubeneschamali

LIGHTNING wrote: »

when they actually need to brake hard i.e in a emergency they dont?

It's another thing (like motorway driving) that should be taught and tested: tester raps on the dash - both pedals hard to the floor.

Most drivers here have never practiced that.

unkel

There's no emergency stop in the driving test here? :eek:

Mr Benevolent

unkel wrote: »

There's no emergency stop in the driving test here? :eek:

Nope. Always wondered about that.

Alun

unkel wrote: »

There's no emergency stop in the driving test here? :eek:

Surprised too, they do it in the UK driving test.

JHMEG

unkel wrote: »

There's no emergency stop in the driving test here? :eek:

Nope, and would you believe some of the test routes don't even have traffic lights!

Jumpy

SV wrote: »

Dare I say...Americans? :eek:

and oh..yeah it's all so tragic and we shouldn't dare call them idiots, even though it's entirely their own fault they died.
and the fact is they died because of their stupidity.


Darwin awards for all!

The ECU issue meant they couldnt turn off the car via the key, couldnt drop it into neutral or reverse, (these are auto cars now) the brakes would have burned out trying to stop a car that was still accelerating even with your foot off the pedal.
Praytell how would you have stopped the car?

SV

Jumpy wrote: »

the brakes would have burned out trying to stop a car that was still accelerating even with your foot off the pedal.

No they wouldn't.

And the ecu issue prevented the engine turning off? First I heard.

unkel

Confab wrote: »

Nope. Always wondered about that.

Unbelievable stuff! Who made up the curriculum of the test? :rolleyes: Did they not have a quick look at the requirements in say the UK, Germany, France?

When I learned to drive (not in this country and 24 years ago ), the instructor during a lesson would hold up his hand and calmly tell you that whenever he'd move his hand down, you needed to make an emergency stop. Good approach, as this set you up well for a real life situation. Imagine the hand is always up.

Emergency stop was part of every single driving test...

kyote00

there is ....

Instrutor gives you instuctions on how he/she will signal you.... and you must come to an abrupt halt.

Most driving lessons also cover it....

One aspect about the Toyota problem that is not often mentioned is that the components that were implicated in the accelator issue were manufactored in America.
I am sure Toyota will pass on the pain of any financial loss to the supplier whose components fails --- in the "pass the hot potato" fashion...

unkel wrote: »

There's no emergency stop in the driving test here? :eek:

Vertakill

unkel wrote: »

When I learned to drive (not in this country and 24 years ago ), the instructor during a lesson would hold up his hand and calmly tell you that whenever he'd move his hand down, you needed to make an emergency stop. Good approach, as this set you up well for a real life situation. Imagine the hand is always up.

Emergency stop was part of every single driving test...

That's strange, I never even thought of this.

When I got a few pre-test lessons from an instructor a few days before my driving test, the instructor made sure to do the emergency stop process like you explained.

Wasn't asked to do it in the full test less than 5 years ago.

unkel

Vertakill wrote: »

That's strange, I never even thought of this.

When I got a few pre-test lessons from an instructor a few days before my driving test, the instructor made sure to do the emergency stop process like you explained.

Wasn't asked to do it in the full test less than 5 years ago.

You had a decent instructor so. He / she did the right thing teaching you an important safety measure even when it wasn't part of the test. I discussed this with mrs unkel just now (she only passed her test about 5 years ago) and she told me her father taught her how to do an emergency stop. It never came up during her driving lessons (with a professional instructor) or during her test