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Ireland has a pathetic last mile infrastructure

  • 26-05-2010 10:16AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭


    Yes most of you know that already

    but now there are figures to back it up :(

    smart economy in a slow lane....
    Speedtest.net was launched in 2007 by Ookla, a company that now also operates Pingtest.net, a site for measuring connection quality. Users conduct more than 1 million tests per day using Ookla's tools, which are also offered as rebranded services by ISPs (Internet service providers).

    Up until now, Ookla has been compiling the results of those individual tests -- about 1.5 billion so far -- but only making them available to outsiders through individual agreements. That is set to change on Tuesday, when consumers will be able to view average speed numbers for the whole world, cities and geographic regions on a new Net Index Web site. At the same time, the full information from the tests -- minus details such as who exactly was testing their home broadband -- will be freely available to academic institutions.

    http://www.itworld.com/networking/108922/internet-speedtest-results-going-public


    * download index: #63 @ 5.98 mbit / EU average 10.02mbit / OECD average 9.04 mbit

    * upload index: #41 @ 0.93 mbit / EU average 2.45mbit / OECD average 1.83 mbit

    * quality index: #68


    next time you hear Eamon Ryan blow hot air, remember this thread


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,131 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Am sick of listening to Ryan bang on about this, I just wish he would do something about it. it is a disgrace to think that other countries are improving their broadband all the time and yet here we are stuck at the start of the century.

    It is a disgrace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭thirtythirty


    Personally I think we're not doing *too* bad; our fibre optic rings and outcrops are growing nicely, contention is being reduced, and alternatives like WiMax and LTE are also getting significant investment.

    Yes, our last mile generally is pathetic BUT backend infrastructure is more important to get right first. Eventually I can see a progressive rip-and-replace of the 60 year old copper wires, largely due to degradation than anything else, but at least then the backend is there to benefit the shiny new wiring!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Personally I think we're not doing *too* bad; our fibre optic rings and outcrops are growing nicely, contention is being reduced, and alternatives like WiMax and LTE are also getting significant investment.

    Yes, our last mile generally is pathetic BUT backend infrastructure is more important to get right first. Eventually I can see a progressive rip-and-replace of the 60 year old copper wires, largely due to degradation than anything else, but at least then the backend is there to benefit the shiny new wiring!

    While yes they are required alot of these back-end circuits (the ones they dug up the main roads for) are unused

    And its not only residential customers that suffer, but businesses too

    the following is from the control panel for one of the cluster of servers I have in the US at the time of this post

    inz5p5.png

    If I located these in Dublin in datacenter here it would cost in the region of 10-30 euro per mbit, it costs 10 times less in the states and continent and you get better quality and better service (and thats not counting the electric costs)

    We contacted Eircom for a gigabit circuit before with plans to setup a small datacenter in Ireland, lets just say the price we got back threw a spanner in the works... And ESB who are sitting on a pile of fibre are a useless bunch of feckers (i know first hand how they work :D)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    I recall hearing a story from an international company that set up here in our smart economy... They moved into a corporate park freshly built, with new roads, freshly built, and fibre put down in the roads, freshly built.

    Did the fibre stretch to the buildings? Nope. Of course not. That's the kind of joined up thinking you get in foreign, not here!

    They were quoted €2,000 per metre to dig the fibre into their exchange, about 20 meters. A capital investment of €40,000 so as they could get an upload speed above 8meg to connect to their global infrastructure.

    A joke.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,353 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Our work office was bilt with fibre connected to the MAN. Hoewever when enquiring how much to get 8mb broadband over the fibre link we were told that it would cost €1500 per month.

    Instead we have a normal 24/1.5mb BB ADSL connection at €160 per month. The fibre connection would have great given the asymetirc speed but the pricing is way out of whack. I don't even think the MAN around the town is being used by anyone.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭omahaid


    Don't ye all know that we are an open smart green knowledge economy :pac:

    I despair at a national broadband strategy where the solution to lack for broadband is to give everyone midband


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,019 ✭✭✭Dr_Teeth


    Issues with 60 year old copper I could understand.. but check this out.

    The housing estate where I live is in Ongar, Dublin 15. It was built in 2008 - they're still trying to sell some of the houses. There is no cable TV / internet, and no fiber - just a telephone line. I've been told the maximum speed I can get out of this line is 4Mb. The exchange the line is connected to (Clonee I believe) has no 3rd party gear in it, just Eircom's bitstream service.

    I cannot understand how it was legal, or even possible for a developer to install such crap communications links into a new estate in this country's capital city, in 2008.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised at anything anymore! :mad:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Dr_Teeth wrote: »
    Issues with 60 year old copper I could understand.. but check this out.

    The housing estate where I live is in Ongar, Dublin 15. It was built in 2008 - they're still trying to sell some of the houses. There is no cable TV / internet, and no fiber - just a telephone line. I've been told the maximum speed I can get out of this line is 4Mb. The exchange the line is connected to (Clonee I believe) has no 3rd party gear in it, just Eircom's bitstream service.

    I cannot understand how it was legal, or even possible for a developer to install such crap communications links into a new estate in this country's capital city, in 2008.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised at anything anymore! :mad:
    The other point of note here being that when they built the feeder road there from power city up to Ongar, I have a feeling they put fibre down into that.

    I know a chap who moved from nearer the village to a house along that road, went from 24meg to the classic "up to" 3meg.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭oppenheimer1


    omahaid wrote: »
    Don't ye all know that we are an open smart green knowledge economy :pac:

    I despair at a national broadband strategy where the solution to lack for broadband is to give everyone midband

    Do you think its feasible to have wired broadband in the foothills of the Kerry mountains? You shouldn't expect services if you live in the back arse of nowhere. I include telephone and ESB in that too.

    Planning was/is a joke.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Do you think its feasible to have wired broadband in the foothills of the Kerry mountains? You shouldn't expect services if you live in the back arse of nowhere. I include telephone and ESB in that too.

    Planning was/is a joke.

    Considering that Mongolia ranks higher than Ireland on that list :eek: ...


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  • Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Do you think its feasible to have wired broadband in the foothills of the Kerry mountains? You shouldn't expect services if you live in the back arse of nowhere. I include telephone and ESB in that too.

    Planning was/is a joke.

    are you saying Ongar Dublin 15 is "middle of nowhere"? Are you saying that anywhere in Dublin is comparable to the "foothills of the Kerry mountains" ?
    :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,476 ✭✭✭ardmacha


    Broadband is the greatest disgrace of all. Building motorways and metros was always going to take time, but a bit of planning and some modest investment in the last decade could have ensured that Ireland was in reasonable shape for broadband.
    Are you saying that anywhere in Dublin is comparable to the "foothills of the Kerry mountains" ?

    Obviously not, or Dublin would win the All Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭dunsandin


    Your dead right, the last mile of road up to my gaff is full of potholes. I'd fill em, but some git would probably sue me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭lmimmfn


    we'll only get decent broadband if the politicians get brown envelopes for it like they did for land rezoning.

    Ignoring idiots who comment "far right" because they don't even know what it means



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭dunsandin


    Broadband???, I thought we were talkin roads here:D:D Sure we all know Irelands broadband is crap. Youtube is like watching a speech by Pronsias in our house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭MysticalRain


    Do you think its feasible to have wired broadband in the foothills of the Kerry mountains? You shouldn't expect services if you live in the back arse of nowhere. I include telephone and ESB in that too.

    Planning was/is a joke.

    Well seeing as there happens to be some major towns and villages in the foothills of those mountains, the answer would obviously be yes in all cases. Even the Black Valley eventually got electricity back in 1975.

    I can recall getting quite excited at the prospect of DSL coming to my local spot in Kerry back in 2000. Little did I know that it would be 2007 by the time we got it, and even then, it was a crappy 2meg Eircom line (1.7 Mb on a good day). That was 3 miles outside of Killarney town. Furthermore up the road there is still no broadband to this day. People there have to rely on ****e mobile "midband" connections.

    I had a similar story living in East Wall back in 2006. No broadband in our street, despite being less than a mile from the main city center and Parliament buildings.

    "Knowledge economy" my arse. I'm just amazed at the lack of embarrassment from our politicians when they utter that phrase knowing full well how dreadfully inadequate our broadband infrastructure is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭dunsandin


    But you are not taking into account the huge landmass of Ireland in comparison to everywhere else, next you will be suggesting that they can build a tunnel under the channel, or a railway across the continent of America. Get real will youse. How could anybody cover such a vast area as Ireland with proper services???? Absurd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21 Battleneter


    Speedtest.net is not accurate as its only "single" source. Any one of the hops can be slow, IE a server in the UK is the slow hop when testing New York.

    Add to this, different ISP can have different hops to servers, so its very possible to be showing a slower speed on a number of speedtest servers than someone else on another ISP, BUT be able to real life download a lot faster.

    Speedtest looks pretty and people believe the results, but the only "True" way to test your connection performance is real downloading from a known fast source (preferable multi-source).

    Speedtest.net is nearly worthless, I should add i am a IT network engineer :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    Speedtest.net is not accurate as its only "single" source. Any one of the hops can be slow, IE a server in the UK is the slow hop when testing New York.

    Add to this, different ISP can have different hops to servers, so its very possible to be showing a slower speed on a number of speedtest servers than someone else on another ISP, BUT be able to real life download a lot faster.

    Speedtest looks pretty and people believe the results, but the only "True" way to test your connection performance is real downloading from a known fast source (preferable multi-source).

    Speedtest.net is nearly worthless, I should add i am a IT network engineer :P
    You sound like you are an IT engineer for Eircom.

    Don't blame the infrastructure, blame speedtest.net

    A crap line is a crap line regardless of what any line testing company tells you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    dunsandin wrote: »
    But you are not taking into account the huge landmass of Ireland in comparison to everywhere else, next you will be suggesting that they can build a tunnel under the channel, or a railway across the continent of America. Get real will youse. How could anybody cover such a vast area as Ireland with proper services???? Absurd.

    What planet are you living on? The huge landmass of Ireland??? Go and look at a map for Feck sake.

    Here is some numbers for you:

    Ireland - Area 84,421 km2 - Download Ranking 42
    S.Korea - Area 100,140 km2 - Download Ranking 1
    Romania - Area 238,391 km2 - Download Ranking 6
    Japan - Area 377,944 km2 - Download Ranking 4

    Huge landmass. Can we blame our sh!te transport on the huge landmass aswell?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    syklops wrote: »
    What planet are you living on? The huge landmass of Ireland??? Go and look at a map for Feck sake.

    Here is some numbers for you:

    Ireland - Area 84,421 km2 - Download Ranking 42
    S.Korea - Area 100,140 km2 - Download Ranking 1
    Romania - Area 238,391 km2 - Download Ranking 6
    Japan - Area 377,944 km2 - Download Ranking 4

    Huge landmass. Can we blame our sh!te transport on the huge landmass aswell?

    I believe there was an element of sarcasm in that post!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,966 ✭✭✭✭syklops


    dogbert27 wrote: »
    I believe there was an element of sarcasm in that post!

    Oh. Apologies to the poster if there was. :(

    I thought Eamon Ryan had gotten a boards account.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    dunsandin wrote: »
    But you are not taking into account the huge landmass of Ireland in comparison to everywhere else, next you will be suggesting that they can build a tunnel under the channel, or a railway across the continent of America. Get real will youse. How could anybody cover such a vast area as Ireland with proper services???? Absurd.
    A bit like how all those Scandinavians living above the arctic circle complain about their lack of electricity, broadband, underground heating... Oh, er.

    "We can't..." is a great Irish expression.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,571 ✭✭✭ongarite


    syklops wrote: »
    What planet are you living on? The huge landmass of Ireland??? Go and look at a map for Feck sake.

    Here is some numbers for you:

    Ireland - Area 84,421 km2 - Download Ranking 42
    S.Korea - Area 100,140 km2 - Download Ranking 1
    Romania - Area 238,391 km2 - Download Ranking 6
    Japan - Area 377,944 km2 - Download Ranking 4

    Huge landmass. Can we blame our sh!te transport on the huge landmass aswell?

    I believe he may be talking about our population/sq km. Its one of the lowest in Europe. This means the cost per user of installing fibre in the last mile to the door is very high and the ROI is low by international standards.

    2 of the countries you have lised above have the higest population/sq km, making it far more profitable to offer these faster services.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    People calm down


    this study and dataset (millions of data points available for free)

    is for people that have internet connections AND used the speedtest site for testing

    of course people who dont have internet wont even show up in this


    anyone wants to help me look over the list and find countries with similar population density (info on wikipedia or cia) and then compare to Ireland

    there are places like Moldova which are similar size to us and extremely poor and the people there who do have internet get it for far cheaper and better service


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,503 ✭✭✭dogbert27


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    People calm down


    this study and dataset (millions of data points available for free)

    is for people that have internet connections AND used the speedtest site for testing

    of course people who dont have internet wont even show up in this


    anyone wants to help me look over the list and find countries with similar population density (info on wikipedia or cia) and then compare to Ireland

    there are places like Moldova which are similar size to us and extremely poor and the people there who do have internet get it for far cheaper and better service

    I believe Finland have a population similar to our own but with a landmass about 5 times the size of ours. How do they compare?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,044 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Speedtest.net is not accurate as its only "single" source. Any one of the hops can be slow, IE a server in the UK is the slow hop when testing New York.

    Add to this, different ISP can have different hops to servers, so its very possible to be showing a slower speed on a number of speedtest servers than someone else on another ISP, BUT be able to real life download a lot faster.

    Speedtest looks pretty and people believe the results, but the only "True" way to test your connection performance is real downloading from a known fast source (preferable multi-source).

    Speedtest.net is nearly worthless, I should add i am a IT network engineer :P
    I'm not a network engineer so I'll bow to your knowledge on that but can you explain to me how I can get consistent 5.8Mb on my German notional 6Mb connection using speedtest, but in Ireland my mother gets 1.2Mb on her notional 3Mb line?

    The infrastructure is a load of rubbish in Ireland, and Germany is not a world leader in it either, but still miles better than Ireland (btw, the 6Mb product I have is the cheapest offering, I could get 100Mb cable broadband or 50Mb VDSL from Telekom but I don't need it).

    I use videocalling to friends here, but can't bare to try to call home with it, it's so jittery and basically infuriating! There is no defence for a place like my mothers (Newcastle, Co. Dublin) having such crap "broadband". They promised improvements years ago and we're still waiting.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Speedtest measures your data rates and ping to a local server. i.e. here in Longford, I Speedtest to a server in Dublin or Galway. I consider this very relevant as a best-case scenario, i.e. if I'm connecting to a game server in Germany the figures will be slightly worse. Our "I.T. Engineer" suggested that tests were taking place between the U.K. and New York, I'm 99% sure both New York City and most of the UK have a local server.

    Incidentally I have Broadband, although some might call it midband (3MB down, 386k up, fixed BB from an Eircon reseller).

    As an aside - Irish Eircom and Eircom reseller broadband uses a technique called interleaving, which depending on the degree of use, increases ping time.

    If anyone on here is a gamer and is stuck with Eircom (or reseller) BB, I suggest taking the 3MB option in preference to the 7MB option as the 3MB option uses reduced interleaving and consequently gives you a better ping.

    I 'upgraded' my package from a 7Mbit line to a 3Mbit line for precisely this reason, that and the cost.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 879 ✭✭✭dunsandin


    ongarite wrote: »
    I believe he may be talking about our population/sq km. Its one of the lowest in Europe. This means the cost per user of installing fibre in the last mile to the door is very high and the ROI is low by international standards.

    2 of the countries you have lised above have the higest population/sq km, making it far more profitable to offer these faster services.


    I believe he may well have been totally sarcastic, and also somwhat lacking in faith when it comes to our infrastructure and its development.:)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Speedtest.net is nearly worthless, I should add i am a IT network engineer :P
    But speedtest always defaults to an Irish server for an Irish IP address and you should know that.

    Can you maybe explain why the quality metric is behind the entire first world and nearly all the second world then????


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