What the hell???

MaryDublin

Hi,

I need advice, I feel I won't like the replies though but anyhow here goes. I warn you that this going to be a long long post and i'm sorry if anyone gets annoyed by my self pity.

Basically I come from a family of 6, my mother, father and us 4 girls. My relationship with mother has never been good. Never. We just always disagree and the tension is horrible. We have gone for months before without speaking. My relationship with my sisters was brilliant until I was 10 and the eldest moved out and my other sister would run away a lot due to fights with my father, my other sister and I were really close. Had the same friends and shared a room.

Something began to change from 10 onward, I began to put on huge amounts of weight and became really sad all the time. My weight disgusted my mother, a former model, who had no qualms about screaming at me in shops for being too fat to fit into size 8 clothes anymore. I admit I was very big for my age but I put it down to medication for kidney problems and puberty starting to kick in. The more shame i felt, the more i tried to hide. I stopped going out with my friends and just went to school, came home, watched TV and ate resulting in me being 16stone when I was 12. Even now my weight is a problem. I lose weight and then put in back on plus some. I grew up being told by my sisters that I was strange and moody, that I was fat and lazy by my mother. On the eve of a leaving cert exam she told me I was useless and that i'd amount to nothing and end up cleaning toilets for a living!

My mother had a horrible up bringing and Ive tried to remember this when she says mean and cruel things to me. Her paranoia is beyond normal and infuriating. She was also bullied when in school and so left early. I think that somehow the bullied has become a bully and the fact that I am a very shy and insecure person meant that I just took her sh*te.
A sister told me she once came home and found me in a ball on the kitchen floor screaming as my mother punched me and kicked me. I was about 2 or 3 apparently. So anyhow, we just have a terrible relationship.

My dad has always been my rock. He would take my sister and I out each weekend to get us out and away from my mother. He has always been there when i've needed help in anyway and when he got sick but no one cared, I drove him to A & E and waited with him for 48 or so hours until I was sure he was ok. I don't want an award for this or anything but I always thought that he knew he could rely on me. We have the same sense of humour and same temper. He has been amazing to me, paid for my education which I am trying to repay and loaned me money for a car which I pay him back each month. I have never not paid a debt back to him and I have never taken his generousity for granted.

I don't have a very close relationship with my eldest sister but its not too bad, the 2nd eldest turned from someone I worshiped to someone I don't recognise and my other sister just went from a caring funny person to a hypocritical black and white person. She told me when she was getting married that if I got any fatter (I was 14 stone at the time!!) that I couldn't be a bridesmaid anymore and then told me I was going to be like "one of those people on the discovery channel who gets so fat that they have to be lifted by a crane".

So there is the background and here is my issue. I feel really alone. I went on holiday in April and when I got back I hated being here. Not the normal post holiday blues but total need to get out and away so I started looking for a place to live and applying for jobs all over the world. I had to leave. I should say at this point that I had moved back home to go to college and so was trying to also get out of the parents home.
So I had started looking for a place, then one night my dad came into my room and told me that staying in bed all weekend (i had a chest infection) and calling in sick for work was a disgrace, that the way my room was (i.e. really bloody messy as I had a wardrobe the size of a shoe!) was a joke and that I needed to do more about the house. I explained I was sick hence the being in bed and calling in sick and that i had zero storage space hence the room being messy which blew up into a complete OTT fight where he told me to start looking for another place to live and added that I am a dissapointment to them and a selfish person. For HIM to say that broke my heart. I was so so hurt and confused as I had not thought I had done anything so bad as to deserve that. Maybe my sadness had masked my selfishness to me?

I moved out this past Saturday and haven't been home for the rest of my stuff or talked much to my parents. Last 2 times I moved out I wasn't very communicative when I was gone and I even wasn't when I lived at home! I am a quiet person!! So today I got a voice mail from my sister telling me that because I hadn't sat down and talked to my parents that I am the scum of the earth, that she hates me and I can't see my niece anymore. She then texted me and called me an ignoramus, a sloth and told me to go f**k myself. I was honestly shocked and disturbed by this as from my side I do not see it as being her business and I would certainly never say those types of things to anyone let alone a family member. Truth is I was planning on going to my parents tonight to talk and to get more stuff from my old room but I have been so disturbed by her words that all i want to do is hide away again. I know, I am a coward.

So my question is, what the hell do I do? Am I wrong in thinking that this is all very unfair? I am not a mean person, my close friends will tell you that I do anything for anyone if they need help and I have bent over backward for people I barely know. I have a big heart and am very caring. What is it about me that has my family baying for blood and sending such horrible words? I have decided to now not try with her, that she is out of my life and to leave her to it and that Karma will sort it.

What do I do?

Thanks.

dory

Get far away from them. None of them seem like people you should have in your life.
Your father may just have thought he was giving you the kick you need.
Go, get yourself sorted out - job, confidence, whatever it takes to make you happy, and then you'll be in a better position to talk to these people.

MaryDublin

Thanks Dory, appreciate you replying.

dory

No problem, just wish had better advice. With all the issues with your mother you really should talk to a professional. Getting away for a while would be great. Could you teach English abroad or anything? You need to go somewhere to get away from the negative memories.

mudbath142

yea, that's an awful situation to be in. I don't have any quick fixes but it sounds like you are the punchbag of the family.

I can understand where you are coming from re your mother. I had the same issues when I was growing up, i.e., being bullied and put down in front of others. Wrecks your confidence when your own mother doesn't think you are any good.

Anyway, your family sound like a real toxic bunch and sometimes we just have to distance ourselves for our own sanity. It worked for me and now I have a better relationship with my family although still not great with one sister and my mother but at least we can communicate.

Try and surround yourself with the people you rely on and are not judgmental. You need to clear your head and I wouldn't go rushing abroad until you are sure you are doing the right thing.

When you are ready maybe make initial contact with your Dad and see if he still feels the same way - he is probably constantly hearing things from other people.

Best of luck.

MaryDublin

Dory - Ive been to every possible type of therapist there is but found CBT to be best. Ah things will get better I suppose. I'm away from them all now in a flat i like, a job i like and a new flat mate is moving in this week who seems nice so here's hoping.
Planning on doing a TEFL when i've paid my dad back for the car. Then we'll see what happens.

Mudbath - how to you approach your family now? There is a bloody party on June 4th for my god daughter in my parents house and to be honest i'm scared to go.

mudbath142

its not easy, for me it took a long time but I came to understand gradually that its not me, its not my fault these people are the way they are. I can't take responsibility for their anger.

For example, for years, we would all meet in my mum's house for dinner one day a week. I used to hate going there, always felt depressed about it and depressed the day after for feeling so negative. I'm not sure it was a Eureka moment but I just absolved myself. I said I needed to distance myself, and while I didn't do it physically, I did it emotionally. I took the power back into my own hands. So, instead of feeling the pits when I walked in and said hello and being ignored, I would still smile and focus on the people who are a bit positive. If something negative was said, just try and deflect it (I like to think of it as mental martial arts) with a bit of humour or make light of it. You can't change these people but you can change the way you react.

If its still too raw and too soon, make up a good excuse and wait until the next occasion but it will still be there so it will have to be confronted at some stage....

Best of luck whatever you do!

Wagon

Mary, I'll just say this. Being around people like that can drag you down to the point you don't recognise yourself anymore.

I reckon your dad might get in touch in the future when he pulls his head out of his arse. That's his own responsibility. Siblings aren't important if they treat you like crap and as for your mother, i think you should tell her on no uncertain terms where to go if she contacts you again. As far as i can tell, she's the root of all these problems and you'll be a far happier person without her in your life. I'm guessing the times you lost weight and felt happier about yourself were when you were living away from home? Correct me if I'm wrong but it does sound a lot like that.

Trust me, you're better off staying away from them.

And fúck the party. My advise is to spend the evening with nice people.

Beruthiel

Mary
Sounds to me like your parents, especially your mother, have basically fuked up their daughters in one way or another.
Now I know you say your Dad is a rock, but he stood by and allowed your mother to treat her daughters like sh!t, so he is not totally blameless here either.
You need to get professional help to talk you through this.
I also had a mother who did not know how to relate to her 4 daughters. I couldn't get out of the house fast enough and left at 19. For four years my parents did not talk to me. Eventually they made an effort and as a result, my relationship with them is better than at any time in the past.

You've moved out, my advice would be to stay away and just see them every so often. The less they see of you, the more they might be grateful when you do turn up. Either way, your relationship with them right now is very unhealthy and is messing with your head to the degree that you cannot think straight when it comes to them.
Stay away until you are in a place where you realise that just because they are your parents doesn't make them good parents or perfect people.

Fox McCloud

Jesus OP thats a hell of a lot to go through growing up.. Its fantastic that you've escaped pysically, just make sure you fully escape emotionally.

Your family sound like a toxic bunch. Up untill now they have used you as a punch bag, your sisters saw your mum treat you badly and assumed they could do the same and get away with it. Maybe they really think its ok to treat people like that... Either way its fairly messed up.

I would look out for the backlash that may be coming. You have probably been their person to compare to and make them feel better, when they see you happy and free they will prob try drag you back down at first, guilt you for things you havent done(eg your sisters voicemail), then exclude you from family gatherings etc. when you dont immediately turn doormat or them. Stay strong, dont let it get to you. The guilt is not yours, you are not a stone or them to stand on and kick at when they feel like it. Only your parents should feel the guilt for taking out there worst life experiences on you and your sisters. Eventually, if you stay strong there might be a chance for your family to cop on and respect you.. But only after a time when they realise you dont need their aproval to be happy. I would say for the time being look after number one for the time being, even if that means stepping on family toes by not showing up to parties etc. Also go get your stuff from your parents house, dont be scared of them also dont listen to a word they say. They will be angry you got away! Its really great that your out of there and can begin your life!

LegacyUser

Mary I just want to commend you on making the move out of home and taking that step. I know how difficult it is, I've been through a very similiar situation myself and only moved out recently after weeks of agonising over it. I am shocked at how similiar your story is to mine in that my dad turned unexpectedly. I have 2 very supportive younger siblings that agreed it would be best for my sanity to move out (it was very difficult leaving them but they don't get the same treatment as I did) and the others simply threatened to not speak with me. In the initial stages both my parents and older siblings didnt contact me at all. I bit the bullet and called home to collect some more gear. This visit was bearable I made it quick ans had some civil conversation. Since then, my parents and older siblings have accepted my choices and I think they are being more considerate towards me (yet I still dont see them often). I agree with previous posters in that you have done the right thing but I would give you family every chance possible to change their ways. Don't cut them out altogether. Since you have moved out they may soon realise the errors of their ways. I know they have done some harsh things but it will hopefully not be as difficult to cope with any subsequent episodes when your not around them 24/7.

MaryDublin

Thank you all so much for your replies. I got quite emotional reading them as I think I expected people to be like "grow up and cop on" or something.
I take heart from you all and hearing that those of you who have experienced the same sort of drama have come out the other side alright.

Am calling up to the house later to collect post and as much of the rest of my gear as I can fit in the car. The thoughts of it are annoying me as I really don't know what the hell all the drama is over. I am expecting a 'lets go into the sitting room and talk' moment and dreading it but i've written out some points to keep me on track just in case.

Beruthiel

MaryDublin wrote: »

I am expecting a 'lets go into the sitting room and talk' moment.

What is this talk about exactly?
You're a grown up, it is natural to leave the nest in order to get on with leading your own life. You need your own space.
Keep it short and sweet.

MaryDublin

Well i'm getting the impression that they are severely effed off with me as i've not been in touch really and they will lay down a guilt trip which to be honest i've no intention of taking the bait on. Like you say, I am an adult and the way they talk to me and try to control me won't work anymore.

I was terrified to move out and my confidence was so messed up that I thought i wouldn't be able to manage but I am loving it. I am happy with the life I have now and refuse to let them drag me back into that vortex of shame, bullying and control. They can stay there.

LittleBook

MaryDublin wrote: »

The thoughts of it are annoying me as I really don't know what the hell all the drama is over. I am expecting a 'lets go into the sitting room and talk' moment and dreading it but i've written out some points to keep me on track just in case.

Their little whipping dog has run away and they're put out.

I don't mean to offend YOU Mary but that's what their "drama" is. Your Mum treated you like dirt, your sisters (except maybe the eldest who got out as fast as she could) took their problems with her out on you and finally your Dad has snapped and lashed out at you.

I wouldn't even bother talking to them if I was you, I'm fairly sure you'll get nowhere in the current climate. But if you can't find a way to get your stuff from the house without dealing with them remember ... "You people treated me like dirt, I don't need you, goodbye".

You sound like you've made fantastic progress in moving away from horrific people ... keep going!!

Walls

I would recommend having a friend ring at some point while you are there, so that (a) you can say you have to go, or alternatively (b)merely provide a break in the conversation. You don't want to be sticking around with this bunch.

Beruthiel

MaryDublin wrote: »

Well i'm getting the impression that they are severely effed off with me as i've not been in touch.

lol
Seriously, you moved out last Saturday. That's what, five whole days?!?
Now if you hadn't been in touch in five months, I'd have something to say, but five days? Gimme a break. If they go down that road, tell them back off and give you some space.

Good tip from Walls above.

Nevyn

You are an adult and no longer living under your mother's roof.
She only has what authority and power over you which you hand to her.
Same goes for your sisters.

Collect you stuff, don't let them side track you, refused to enguage with them until it is all stowed away in your car, that way you can walk out of there.

Do you have someone who can go with you?

MaryDublin

Nope, no one to go with me but screw it. I'm a (very ha ha) big girl so i'll be ok. At the end of the day, this is my life and i've to take control and stop hiding behind excuses. Once I have all my stuff moved i'll feel a lot better.

Think the sister of psycho texts will be there collecting her daughter who she pawns off to everyone so that'll be a larf! :P

springwell7616

if and when you go to your folks house to collect the rest of your stuff, take someone with you, either male or female to witness that you have only taken your own stuff.
With a--holes like these people you call family they will otherwise surely start stories of you stealing some of their stuff.
We have my wife's neice staying with us because of roughly the same treatment that you went through. The only difference is that we got her out when the problem came to light and we reported them to the authorities.
Good luck and try and be positive. I know it's a big step for you to take but your life will be better without them in it.

kjl

Do you ever watch The Biggest Loser? Well one of the things I always notice in the contestants is that there is always some negative force that caused them to become so over weight. I think in your life, its your mother.

It seems to me like your family treated you in a certain way, and now that's the person you have become. I think you need to take your life back, and the first way of doing that is to join a gym, research healthy diets and exercise regimes and loose all that weight. All that weight represents the pain and suffering that you went through and now only stands as excess baggage that you have to carry around with you. Set a goal for yourself and achieve it, You cant be that out of shape that you couldn't lose it all in 6 months, and that's not and exaggeration.

You can't just sit around feeling sorry for yourself, you need to make an active difference in your life, you need to be the driving force in your life, not your family. Your mum says you will never amount to anything, prove her wrong. Sometimes we think that our parents are right about everything, but actually, they are wrong most of the time.

I hope you do take back your life, I really do. GL OP

MaryDublin

Thanks for the advice kjl.

I play rugby, do bootcamp (not the scary one in Bushy Park) and tai chi, I also walk to work every day now too.

I'm 5ft 10 and weigh 19stone so am trying to budge a bit down to 16 stone and then maybe down to 15 after that as any lower and I look scary.

kjl

MaryDublin wrote: »

Thanks for the advice kjl.

I play rugby, do bootcamp (not the scary one in Bushy Park) and tai chi, I also walk to work every day now too.

I'm 5ft 10 and weigh 19stone so am trying to budge a bit down to 16 stone and then maybe down to 15 after that as any lower and I look scary.

They are all great cardio, but to lose weight you need to do muscle training and eat a healthy diet. You also need to be doing about 1-2 hours of cardio a day. If you do this, along with intense work outs in the gym, then you will lose the weight in no time.

mudbath142

, I would disagree with the previous comment. You don't 'have' to do weight training to reduce fat. Sure it helps and the more muscle mass you have the faster you burn calories at rest. Also, I would caution against 'intense workouts'. This is fine if you have years of training under your belt, not if you are an intermediate and certainly not for a beginner.

However, for someone who just needs to lose a couple of stone weight initially, I would recommend minimising any weight training and focussing more on cardiovascular activities. Get aerobically fit first, then after a few months, introduce some light weight bearing activities.
Best exercises are the ones that are easier to do because you can do them longer. Fast walking is among the best - just build it up gradually!

kiwi123

Hi Mary,

I think your posts highlight the whole idea that you can't chose your family, but you can chose how much contact you have with them. Why would you willingly keep in contact with those who bring you down?! It sounds like your Mam is the one who needs therapy. Hope things are looking up for you and you are holding your head up high because you are doing yourself proud. The weightloss will start falling into place when you have a healty routine in place and not only will you feel amazing, but it will show your family just how well you are doing (not saying you should do it to prove a point but it may be a happy coincidence) When you walk back through your old front door, do it with confidence and grace as you have done nothing wrong. You are a grown woman and there's no quota about how often you should talk to your family for, especially when the atmosphere seems so toxic - take as much time and space as you need, you really don't owe these people anything.
I find it very strange that a family unit wouldn't help to develop and nurture a childs confidence. You seem to be doing very well for yourself, very independent and not letting the negative opinions of those around you hold you back.
OP, you should be very proud of yourself, keep going the way you are and everything will fall into place.

Good luck x

Jumpy

Some people thrive on drama. Your family does. You dont.

Stay away from them and travel as much as you can. In a few years you will feel sorry for what they are and hopefully happy with what you experienced.

Jumpy

Do NOT reply to angry messages by the way. That will only spark more of the same. Only ever talk to them if they are prepared to talk civilly.
This may take a very long time.

kjl

mudbath142 wrote: »

As a qualified personal trainer, I would disagree with the previous comment. You don't 'have' to do weight training to reduce fat. Sure it helps and the more muscle mass you have the faster you burn calories at rest. Also, I would caution against 'intense workouts'. This is fine if you have years of training under your belt, not if you are an intermediate and certainly not for a beginner.

However, for someone who just needs to lose a couple of stone weight initially, I would recommend minimising any weight training and focussing more on cardiovascular activities. Get aerobically fit first, then after a few months, introduce some light weight bearing activities.
Best exercises are the ones that are easier to do because you can do them longer. Fast walking is among the best - just build it up gradually!

Right, if she is already doing a lot of cardio, which she claims to be doing, and she is not seeing any results from it. Then she has a very slow metabolism. She needs to do weight training, I'm not saying she needs to start power lifting or anything like that, but she does need to train her back, legs, arms, chest, shoulders and core. Maybe 3 reps of 10, 3 times a week, with a medium weight.

And when I refer to intense workouts, I of course refer to high intensity interval training, which for losing weight is second to none.

Don't take this the wrong way there mudbath, but most of the qualified personal trainers I know, did some 3 week course the gym the work for provides and doesn't really know much about metabolism, diet or proper regimes, but more about how to lift and how to start people on programs and what not, I doubt that your training dealt with obese people and best course of action for them.

Also the advice about healthy diet is also good advice, you can't be starving yourself, you need to fuel your body for the work outs you are going to give it. Plus something I didn't mention, but you need to drink loads of water, you have to be hydrated or your body wont let you drop those pounds.

I know I didn't have 11 stone to lose, but I did lose 4 stone in about 2 months by doing this, but everyone is different. I have also helped a lot of my overweight friends to lose a lot of weight.

mudbath142

Kil wrote: Right, if she is already doing a lot of cardio, which she claims to be doing, and she is not seeing any results from it. Then she has a very slow metabolism. She needs to do weight training, I'm not saying she needs to start power lifting or anything like that, but she does need to train her back, legs, arms, chest, shoulders and core. Maybe 3 reps of 10, 3 times a week, with a medium weight.

And when I refer to intense workouts, I of course refer to high intensity interval training, which for losing weight is second to none.

Take your point kil but will have to agree to disagree and this is probably not the best place to have a debate on this. I have also helped a lot of people reduce weight and there are a number of things I would say:

Slow metabolism - not necessarily. You say Mary is doing enough cardio work. We simply dont know as we dont know how long she walks for, how often she plays rugby, etc. In my opinion, Mary probably needs to up the intensity in relation to aerobic work. There are a number of ways to do this. Change the exercise or increase the intensity. I would choose the latter.

There is also the social side of training in gyms. Many people who are overweight simply do not feel comfortable in gyms. That is why, get the weight down a bit first before going near one.

Disagree with you re high intensity interval training being the best method of losing weight - would like to see links to studies showing this. Agree with you re nutrition and drinking plenty of water.

I also have a degree in science (not bragging - its not food science anyway! ).

Silverfish

Okay, can we take the fitness debate elsewhere, the OP is looking for advice not a debate, thanks

Nevyn

mudbath142 please do not give professional advice it breaks the site rules.

MaryDublin

Hi All,

Irregardless of the advice and opinion given I just want to THANK YOU ALL for taking the time to reply. I really do appreciate it.

I am just back from the house. Went up and my mother was there, I asked her if she could tell me exactly what the issue is, what warrants the way everyone has talked to me in whatever medium they used. Her reaction? Stare intently at Emmerdale, not make eye contact and tell me "if you don't know what the issue is, i am not going to tell you"......very helpfull. So I said grand so, i'm off to pack stuff and went off upstairs. When I was done and taking stuff to the car I popped my head into the other room where my dad was (he had just come home) and asked him did he want to talk before I left, he gave me a ****-you look and said no so I said ok and left him to the footy or whatever he was watching.

I keep crying. I don't know why. Is it because i'm sad or because i'm relieved? I never felt I fitted in with everyone in the "family" so maybe i AM better off on my own? Gargh!!! My head is melting.

Wagon

MaryDublin wrote: »

Hi All,
I am just back from the house. Went up and my mother was there, I asked her if she could tell me exactly what the issue is, what warrants the way everyone has talked to me in whatever medium they used. Her reaction? Stare intently at Emmerdale, not make eye contact and tell me "if you don't know what the issue is, i am not going to tell you"......very helpfull. So I said grand so, i'm off to pack stuff and went off upstairs. When I was done and taking stuff to the car I popped my head into the other room where my dad was (he had just come home) and asked him did he want to talk before I left, he gave me a ****-you look and said no so I said ok and left him to the footy or whatever he was watching.

Well, they're like kids aren't they? Personall the kind of thing your mother said to you immediatly switches me off liking somone. It's like she's a teenager and wants you to keep digging so she can get angry and lash out like a teenager. Your dad isn't much better. I'll be as blunt as I can about what to do.

They're a useless family and you're better off without them all. Don't answer any angry voicemails, and if they keep ringing you and sending insults (given their actions above, i wouldnd't be suprised if they tried it) ignore the phone calls. Cut them out until they're ready to grow up and cop onto themselves. It's actually that simple.

To make yourself feel better, remember what you have now. You have all your stuff back so you don't need to visit your house ever again if you don't want to. You've got a job you like, your own place to live and you have good friends as well im sure. You also have goals for yourself .ie. losing the weight and getting your self confidence back on track. What i will say is that you might find the weight easier to get rid of now you are away from home and all the stresses you went through. Just keep a good diet and excersize and you'll feel better in no time.

There isn't much I can say. Just bear this in mind: We can't choose our family, but we can still tell them to fúck off when they push it. They're still human beings. You wouldn't take this treatment from your friends or strangers, you certainly don't have to take it from family

kjl

OP are you sure there isnt anything you are not telling us? because it just seems to me like your parents are dicks, I'm not sure if anyone can be like that without reason. Is there anything, not necessarily that you did, that could be factors in why this argument has started?

mudbath142

yea, agree with Kjl. You sure there is nothing else going on? Could someone have said something about you that maybe isn't true or is it just the case that they have decided you are the black sheep and they have given up on you?

How do they relate to other people? Other non-immediate family members. How do other non-immediate family members see the situation or has anyone else ever offered an opinion?

LegacyUser

Just reading through this post and really does seem like such a bad situation and atmosphere that nobody deserves. Well done and standing up for yourself and for putting yourself first and what makes you happy

I think it would be a good idea if you wrote a letter each for your mother and father and explain things in your words, how your feeling about the way they've treated you and that you dont understanding what the issue is but are hurting that you are being treated unfairly. It would be good to get all your feeling off your chest and then the ball is in their court to respond, id ask them if they want to reply to write a letter back as writting things down really makes you think about what you are saying.

Best of luck but it sounds like you are doing so much better already so keep all the positive people around you!

MaryDublin

KJL & Mudbath; there really is nothing else that comes to mind, genuinely have no idea what's happened. I distanced myself from them emotionally years ago so maybe i'm not as clued into their opinion of me as I should be? Really don't know.

I think when I moved home last time I got really down and hated the way they treated me like a child all the time, the family in general would say "oh you're an adult so act like it" yet i'd get told what time to be home or to call them if I wouldn't be home or if the parents went on holliers one of my sisters would always happen to be passing by and so check on the house. I mean when I was between 19 - 23 I was totally wild and no one said a thing to me yet when I calmed down all the control of me started. This is getting very boring isn't it.