Fake NCT

Ahorseofaman

My wife bought a small car for 1200 euro in feb from a long established small dealer in cork.It was nct,t til may.On ringing the nct to book it in they told us that the nct was a forgery and that it had not been nct,d since 2007.the dealer wont give us back our money claiming the guarantee is out and we have put 5000 miles on it but on talking to a solicitor friend she said that as it is illegal under the goods and services act and the road traffic act to sell an unroad worthy vehicle(it failed the nct in a spectacular fashion)we should take him to the small claims court and sue him for the cost of putting it right.it will cost about 1000 e as it needs a new cat among numerous others things.anyone one else have a similar experience and what happened in your case.
thanks
Patrick

smash

A new cat is cheap...

But back on topic - take him to small claims for a full refund + expenses for repairs if you've done any.

Also, do you know if the dealer was even aware of the fake disc? This might have been a scrappage car or something that they just got on trade in. What was their attitude like when you told them?

Zubeneschamali

Ahorseofaman wrote: »

My wife bought a small car for 1200 euro...(solicitor says)...we should take him to the small claims court and sue him for the cost of putting it right.it will cost about 1000 e

I think you should start the process of suing him, but settle for all your money back, including solicitors expenses. No way he'll want to defend this in court.

MagicSean

Report him to the gardaí for fraud. Forged documents are a serious offence.

Zubeneschamali

k_mac wrote: »

Report him to the gardaí for fraud. Forged documents are a serious offence.

Not until after you get your full refund including expenses!

firefly08

It may be illegal to sell an un-roadworthy car but I'm pretty sure selling a car with forged documentation is a bit more serious! Chances are the dealer wasn't aware but I would think he's still responsible to some extent...that is the route I would be following if I were you: make him realize that it's a serious offence that he is at least partly responsible for and I think he will change his tune. Suing someone over the sale of goods act is probably going to be a tedious process, so keep that as your last resort...

My 2 cents!

langdang

He's either got serious neck or he hasn't thought of how bad the headline "local car dealer sells car with forged NCT documentation" would look even in a local paper. If he had any sense he'd offer ye the 1200 and take the car back off ye for a quiet life! Would this be an acceptable solution for you OP?

He probably wasn't aware of the faked NCT, I mean it's not liking pretending a car was serviced - even the most un-car-knowledgeable person is going to find out the NCT was faked sooner or later. But no matter what price you pay you expect that when you buy from a dealer it won't fail the NCT "spectacularly" so don't take any guff about "what do you expect for 1200"

lightspeed

get a solicitor maybe to draft a letter of your intention to sue. it may cost you a small amount im not fully sure on the cost of it but i cant imagine it would cost that much. im sure he would take it seriously then . He is probaly used to getting calls from unhapy customers and most of them dont go to the bother of taking him to court but in this case you definately should.
best of luck with it.

knifey_spoonie

Hello my name is Devil's Advocate.

The op has put 5000 mile's on the car. Whats to say these problems have not manifested themselves since the warranty has ran out. The big problem here is establishing that the car was in an unroadworthy condition when purchased, it don't make no difference what condition it is in now.

Any person who plans to make a living out of selling cars, would be stone wall mad to try pull a fake NCT cert. The OP said they were long established.So the chances are they did'nt know and are as clueless as the OP.

Have you looked at the NCT cert, does it look fake. Have you put it beside another NCT cert. Is it possible that there is a mistake on the behalf of NCT's.

What you all seem to be forgetting is, if this fake NCT cert thing had not come up, the OP would not have a leg to stand-on.The dealer in my eyes has nothing to answer for on the account of the car failing the NCT. He is only liable for the Fake Cert.

Merch

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Hello my name is Devil's Advocate.

The op has put 5000 mile's on the car. Whats to say these problems have not manifested themselves since the warranty has ran out. The big problem here is establishing that the car was in an unroadworthy condition when purchased, it don't make no difference what condition it is in now.

Any person who plans to make a living out of selling cars, would be stone wall mad to try pull a fake NCT cert. The OP said they were long established.So the chances are they did'nt know and are as clueless as the OP.

Have you looked at the NCT cert, does it look fake. Have you put it beside another NCT cert. Is it possible that there is a mistake on the behalf of NCT's.

What you all seem to be forgetting is, if this fake NCT cert thing had not come up, the OP would not have a leg to stand-on.The dealer in my eyes has nothing to answer for on the account of the car failing the NCT. He is only liable for the Fake Cert.

he sold a car with a fake NCT! either he was aware of this meaning he is a crook, or he did it unknowingly meaning he is foolish, being ignorant of the facts isnt an excuse for breaking the law or fobbing someone off with a faulty product.
The Fake NCT has come it and it is an issue (the main issue) so your last paragraph is irrelevant. Do you run some kind of business motor or otherwise where you think this (ie shoddy, illegal service is acceptable)

slimjimmc

Ahorseofaman wrote: »

My wife bought a small car for 1200 euro in feb from a long established small dealer in cork.It was nct,t til may.On ringing the nct to book it in they told us that the nct was a forgery and that it had not been nct,d since 2007.the dealer wont give us back our money claiming the guarantee is out and we have put 5000 miles on it but on talking to a solicitor friend she said that as it is illegal under the goods and services act and the road traffic act to sell an unroad worthy vehicle(it failed the nct in a spectacular fashion)we should take him to the small claims court and sue him for the cost of putting it right.it will cost about 1000 e as it needs a new cat among numerous others things.anyone one else have a similar experience and what happened in your case.
thanks
Patrick

There is a legal warranty that the car must be safe, but it is not an offence under the Sale of Goods and Services Act 1980 (can't find any offence under the RTA either if there is one). It simply means you are entitled to 'redress' (usually compensation or your money back). http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0013.html

(2) Without prejudice to any other condition or warranty, in every contract for the sale of a motor vehicle (except a contract in which the buyer is a person whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) there is an implied condition that at the time of delivery of the vehicle under the contract it is free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.

If the car failed the NCT with dangerous defects then you can challenge on this basis, however if it failed spectacularily on a number of non-dangerous items such as the emissions test (i.e. dead cat) your car would not be road-worthy but not dangerous either. Somebody would need to certify the car as dangerous.

PS: Would the NCT allow a dangerous car to be driven home, most garages wouldn't afaik?

EPM

Fake cert...can you prove it? Get cert checked, then decide. If it is threaten to report it and see how it goes...for such small money I reckon he'll sort it.
Then report him. People like that give the trade a bad name

rebel.ranter

Sure the OP could have organized the fake NCT themselves.... That is what the car sales man could allege, is there good evidence that he did? If not then you are wasting your time reporting him.

Guy:Incognito

EPM wrote: »

Fake cert...can you prove it? Get cert checked, then decide. If it is threaten to report it and see how it goes...for such small money I reckon he'll sort it.
Then report him. People like that give the trade a bad name

Whats with everyone automatically assuming it's the dealer that put a fake disc in? It's much more likely that it was traded in to him or he bought it at auction like that.

How many dealers actualy ring up and check to see if the nct disk in the window is real. The same could be said of a tax disc.

Merch

Stekelly wrote: »

Whats with everyone automatically assuming it's the dealer that put a fake disc in? It's much more likely that it was traded in to him or he bought it at auction like that.

How many dealers actualy ring up and check to see if the nct disk in the window is real. The same could be said of a tax disc.

Thats not the OPS fault though, from now on in, I'll be checking NCT's are valid if buying. But you expect if it is represented as having an NCT then a business should be checking something like that, but no-one should be passing off a fake one.
If it was passed off to him as such then he should have followed that up rather than sell it on if he knew, if he didn't know he should refund the customer as his own foolishness cost him, why should the customer be faulted, ignorance isnt an excuse for poor service,

knifey_spoonie

Merch wrote: »

he sold a car with a fake NCT! either he was aware of this meaning he is a crook, or he did it unknowingly meaning he is foolish, being ignorant of the facts isnt an excuse for breaking the law or fobbing someone off with a faulty product.
The Fake NCT has come it and it is an issue (the main issue) so your last paragraph is irrelevant. Do you run some kind of business motor or otherwise where you think this (ie shoddy, illegal service is acceptable)

Its time for a english lesson

a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with for the sake of argument.

Not once did i say the dealer was right or his actions acceptable, so your can stop putting words in my mouth. The fact of the matter is all we are hearing is one side of the story, you do not now history behind this NCT, no one here does, All you are doing is going on preconceived misconceptions that all car salemen are crooks, scumbags or whatever other word you choose. I would like to know what you work as im sure i can come up with lots of unfair misconceptions about your profession.

To answer your question, yes i do work in the motor industry, and guess what im not a crook, I know shock horror. I work damm hard at my job, I treat all my customers with respect and honesty. I also know my customers appreciate this, as my overall customer satisfaction is at 96%.

I dont agree with the underhand ways of some dealers, but you or no one else here knows if the dealer had a hand in the NCT cert. Until it is confirmed put your pitchforks away, but by all means if it turns out he printed the fake cert, I would be the first to call him a w@anker from the tallest building.

Guy:Incognito

Merch wrote: »

Thats not the OPS fault though, from now on in, I'll be checking NCT's are valid if buying. But you expect if it is represented as having an NCT then a business should be checking something like that, but no-one should be passing off a fake one.
If it was passed off to him as such then he should have followed that up rather than sell it on if he knew, if he didn't know he should refund the customer as his own foolishness cost him, why should the customer be faulted, ignorance isnt an excuse for poor service,

I mever said it was the op's fault. I was talking about all the people screaming for the garage to be reported ans /or sued.

Merch

Stekelly wrote: »

I mever said it was the op's fault. I was talking about all the people screaming for the garage to be reported ans /or sued.

? didnt you read the first post? it said the dealer effectively told them to feck off, what would you do? accept that as your answer after being sold a lemon? the dealer seems to have made his position clear, why not out him if thats how his business operates? and sue to get your money back.

Ahorseofaman

it failed on rear axle brake hand brake, front suspension,steering linkage(both)repeat side slip test ,emissions.he rang tonight and offered. 1 he gives me 250 euro and I sort it .2 Igive him 500 and he sorts it or 3 he will buy it back for 800.Itold him (politely) to take a short walk off a long pier.
edit; My argument is that I paid 1200 quid for a roadworthy car with a valid ntc and what I got was a piece of crap with fake ntc that had,nt been tested in 5 yrs.It seems a no brainer to me .I dont believe (I think )that he put the fake cert on but as the seller he has a duty of care that the car is fit for purpose and legal.thanks you all for the input btw

knifey_spoonie

Ahorseofaman wrote: »

it failed on rear axle brake hand brake, front suspension,steering linkage(both)repeat side slip test ,emissions.he rang tonight and offered. 1 he gives me 250 euro and I sort it .2 Igive him 500 and he sorts it or 3 he will buy it back for 800.Itold him (politely) to take a short walk off a long pier.

Hey is there any chance of you PM'ing the Reg, I have a program that can usually pull up NCT date, Owners etc, It ain't cartell before anyone jumps in saying it is. Just to give a definite, so you can tell the dealer go shove.

If you dont feel comfortable then dont, just trying to help.

Ahorseofaman

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Hey is there any chance of you PM'ing the Reg, I have a program that can usually pull up NCT date, Owners etc, It ain't cartell before anyone jumps in saying it is. Just to give a definite, so you can tell the dealer go shove.

If you dont feel comfortable then dont, just trying to help.

It was the lads in the ntc that told me when it was last tested and it has beeen reported to the guards as well and they checked it as well but thanks for the thought

Merch

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Its time for a english lesson

a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with for the sake of argument.

Not once did i say the dealer was right or his actions acceptable, so your can stop putting words in my mouth. The fact of the matter is all we are hearing is one side of the story, you do not now history behind this NCT, no one here does, All you are doing is going on preconceived misconceptions that all car salemen are crooks, scumbags or whatever other word you choose. I would like to know what you work as im sure i can come up with lots of unfair misconceptions about your profession.

To answer your question, yes i do work in the motor industry, and guess what im not a crook, I know shock horror. I work damm hard at my job, I treat all my customers with respect and honesty. I also know my customers appreciate this, as my overall customer satisfaction is at 96%.

I dont agree with the underhand ways of some dealers, but you or no one else here knows if the dealer had a hand in the NCT cert. Until it is confirmed put your pitchforks away, but by all means if it turns out he printed the fake cert, I would be the first to call him a w@anker from the tallest building.

I know what you mean, I'm not having a go at you, but it seems irrelevant to suggest as below from your post that they put 5k on it when the NCT was out already, if that was the case then the car was unroadworthy, the dealer either knew this or should have known. The car was only gotten in Feb, would you be happy with it? I wouldn't.Yes all we have to go on is the OPs post, so if this is not true then its all irrelevant.

The op has put 5000 mile's on the car. Whats to say these problems have not manifested themselves since the warranty has ran out. The big problem here is establishing that the car was in an unroadworthy condition when purchased, it don't make no difference what condition it is in now.

Ahorseofaman

Merch wrote: »

I know what you mean, I'm not having a go at you, but it seems irrelevant to suggest as below from your post that they put 5k on it when the NCT was out already, if that was the case then the car was unroadworthy, the dealer either knew this or should have known. The car was only gotten in Feb, would you be happy with it? I wouldn't.Yes all we have to go on is the OPs post, so if this is not true then its all irrelevant.

Tust me its true .I'going to stand outside his premises today with a sign reading "b***** motors sold me a car with a fake nct.real nct 5yrs out of date.refuses to replace refund or repair.ask me for details before you buy here " and see how he likes that.

langdang

Bargain him up from the 800 and get rid of it would be what I'd do.
If you got him up to 900 you had the use of a car for a few months for 300 euro. You can be letting the guards worry about it once it's out of your sight.

Henry Ford III

Rarely I'd ever defend a car dealer, but if it was a previous owner that forged the NCT disc why would the garage even have checked it, and why would they have any liability now?

Merch

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Rarely I'd ever defend a car dealer, but if it was a previous owner that forged the NCT disc why would the garage even have checked it, and why would they have any liability now?

You must be a car dealer of some kind,
Well I imagine they should check it is legit for their own sake. They cannot claim to be ignorant of the facts and turn a blind eye to things like that, its their business/job to know so pleading ignorance is no excuse.
I'd try to get as much back out of them as possible, I'd even take 1000 but would def be on to report them somehow.

Henry Ford III

Merch wrote: »

You must be a car dealer of some kind,
Well I imagine they should check it is legit for their own sake. They cannot claim to be ignorant of the facts and turn a blind eye to things like that, its their business/job to know so pleading ignorance is no excuse.
I'd try to get as much back out of them as possible, I'd even take 1000 but would def be on to report them somehow.

I'm not. If any car had a decent quality forged disc displayed, why would anyone feel the need to double check it?

Zubeneschamali

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If any car had a decent quality forged disc displayed, why would anyone feel the need to double check it?

After this dealer is forced to return every cent of the OP's money plus expenses, I bet he'll feel the need to check in future.

Henry Ford III

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

After this dealer is forced to return every cent of the OP's money plus expenses, I bet he'll feel the need to check in future.

You are assuming the dealer forged it. That might not be correct.

Merch

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I'm not. If any car had a decent quality forged disc displayed, why would anyone feel the need to double check it?

I'm not in the business either but, I'd have assumed a dealer would think this essential to check, before taking a car off anyone, otherwise how might they sell it on?
You make it sound like you think a good quality forgery is acceptable? I wouldn't buy a car from anyone from now on in without checking, you make it sound like you would. If you did and it turned out your NCT was forged as it had failed spectacularly, would you be happy with your family, friends, children or anyone that might happen to be in proximity to the vehicle you bought subject to the consequences of it failing mechanically because someone else (in this case the dealer) wasn't arsed to check.
If I bought anything as a consumer I have the right to have problems or faults dealt with by the business that sold me the product and not be fobbed off by who may have caused the problem.

I'm not having a go at you, I am trying to point out if this happened to you, would you be thinking the same way, I wouldnt.

Merch

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You are assuming the dealer forged it. That might not be correct.

I didnt see this while I was writing my reply, that persons post doesnt suggest the dealer forged it, it says to me, wether he passed it on knowingly or unkowingly its the dealers fault.
Ignorance of the facts isnt an excuse to break laws or provide a shabby service.

Henry Ford III

Merch wrote: »

I'm not in the business either but, I'd have assumed a dealer would think this essential to check, before taking a car off anyone, otherwise how might they sell it on?
You make it sound like you think a good quality forgery is acceptable? I wouldn't buy a car from anyone from now on in without checking, you make it sound like you would. If you did and it turned out your NCT was forged as it had failed spectacularly, would you be happy with your family, friends, children or anyone that might happen to be in proximity to the vehicle you bought subject to the consequences of it failing mechanically because someone else (in this case the dealer) wasn't arsed to check.
If I bought anything as a consumer I have the right to have problems or faults dealt with by the business that sold me the product and not be fobbed off by who may have caused the problem.

I'm not having a go at you, I am trying to point out if this happened to you, would you be thinking the same way, I wouldnt.

A forgery obviously isn't acceptable, and a dangerous vehicle is much worse.

What I'm saying is I have never known a dealer or private seller to have to double check forged discs for NCT or Road Tax.

robtri

It doesnt matter if the dealer was are it was a forgery or not... really doesnt....


1. He should have known or did checks on car, you know to make sure people arent givin him stolen cars etc.

2. Ignorence is no excuse under the law, and by law he is responsible for the goods he sold..

Merch

Henry Ford III wrote: »

A forgery obviously isn't acceptable, and a dangerous vehicle is much worse.

What I'm saying is I have never known a dealer or private seller to have to double check forged discs for NCT or Road Tax.

I'm not in the business, I assume a business would check as the last poster said if it was stolen, so why wouldn't they check other obvious things like NCT?
As you said you are not in the business, I don't know how you are aware how a dealer or private seller would be checking at all? unless you change your car very regularly.

If I was the OP, I don't think I would waste my time putting a sign up, I'd go to a solicitor or take this to a small claims court as it is under 2000 euro, I would keep a record of all my communication with the dealer.
I do not have a link, but I am certain I have read recently that car can only be sold with a valid NCT,

langdang

Ah lads, I know I said even at 1200 euro there had to be some standards, but I meant that it would have to road-worthy and not likely to fail an NCT spectactularly, not that it would have to pass some CSI level of forensic scrutiny?

Get rid of it OP, if the guards check it out there will probably be a "suspected fraud" flag on the reg in the PULSE database for evermore knowing your luck. Throw it back to the dealer, get 900 or 1K off him. It'll be his problem briefly to satisfy the guards but really the hassle should eventually find it's way to whoever had it before him.

Zubeneschamali

langdang wrote: »

Throw it back to the dealer, get 900 or 1K off him.

Folks, the OP already said that the dealer will not refund his money.

OP, pay your solicitor friend a few bob to write to the dealer telling him you intend to sue, but offering to drop the matter if you get all your money including the solicitors fees back.

smash

When a dealer takes in a trade in, or buys at auction, or a private buyer buys from a private buyer, 90% of the time you'll get the NCT disc in the window and not the original cert because Irish people are brutal at keeping any form of service history. If the disc is there you'd assume good faith and that everything was in order. Even if you got a pre purchase inspection of the car they wouldn't do a background check to see if the NCT disc was real, if it's valid then it's valid.

I'd be of the opinion that the previous owner forged the disc to get a better trade in value, and this being the case, I'd be checking your chassis numbers too!

The dealer should without question give a refund and then pursue the previous owner for damages. It's not complicated.

Give the dealer a chance and if he doesn't play ball then take it further.

stevenmu

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Rarely I'd ever defend a car dealer, but if it was a previous owner that forged the NCT disc why would the garage even have checked it, and why would they have any liability now?

Consumer law. The OPs contract is with the car dealer and the car dealer is responsible for ensuring they live up to their side of it. As an example, imagine Sony produced a bunch of faulty TVs, and I then bought one through Powercity. Event though it would be Sony's fault, my contract would be with Powercity so it would up to them to make it right through repair/replacement/refund etc. This is a very well established principle in consumer law here.

What I wouldn't be sure of is if the faked NCT would constitute the dealer not fulfilling their end of the contract. I suspect it would, the car was sold with the claim that it had passed it's NCT and it clearly had not. This means that the car was not as described.

Whether the dealer knew this or not is irrelevant to the OP, his contract was with the dealer and it's up to the dealer to put the situation right.

I'd personally guess that the dealer did not know the NCT was faked, the risks vs benefits are just too great (and I'm sure most dealers would realise that the truth would come out sooner or later). It's the dealer's responsibility to then chase down the person who sold/traded them the car for their own recourse.

langdang

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

langdang wrote: »

Throw it back to the dealer, get 900 or 1K off him.

Folks, the OP already said that the dealer has offered him 800

FYP

Zubeneschamali

langdang wrote: »

FYP

Fair enough, I missed that post earlier.

Ahorseofaman

I have started the process of the small claims court and protested outside with my sign for 1/2 an hour at my lunchbreak.only reaction was one of the dealers saying he was getting on to his solicitor because my wife "upset him" so much when she rang to complain.(she was the one who ended up crying).Iintend to keep the picket low key at a 1/2 an hour a day til saturday when I will be outside all day.at 800 euro refund I lose 400 + the 140 I spent on tyres while he gets back a car he will fix at cost and probably sell on at a profit again. f**k that, I m holding out for a full refund.

dirtydiesel

Ahorseofaman wrote: »

I have started the process of the small claims court and protested outside with my sign for 1/2 an hour at my lunchbreak.only reaction was one of the dealers saying he was getting on to his solicitor because my wife "upset him" so much when she rang to complain.(she was the one who ended up crying).Iintend to keep the picket low key at a 1/2 an hour a day til saturday when I will be outside all day.at 800 euro refund I lose 400 + the 140 I spent on tyres while he gets back a car he will fix at cost and probably sell on at a profit again. f**k that, I m holding out for a full refund.

Fair play to you.

thebman

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Its time for a english lesson

a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with for the sake of argument.

Not once did i say the dealer was right or his actions acceptable, so your can stop putting words in my mouth.

You can play devils advocate all you want but don't be surprised when people quote your post and try to rip it apart TBH.

You may not believe what you say or you believe but are trying to stop an onslaught of attack.

Its irrelevant really, even if someone does quote and refer to you, it doesn't mean that they think you believe what you say anyway but you were the one who said it so for them to refer to your post and you as the person that posted it is still accurate.

daveharnett

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Hello my name is Devil's Advocate.

The op has put 5000 mile's on the car. Whats to say these problems have not manifested themselves since the warranty has ran out. The big problem here is establishing that the car was in an unroadworthy condition when purchased, it don't make no difference what condition it is in now.

Any person who plans to make a living out of selling cars, would be stone wall mad to try pull a fake NCT cert. The OP said they were long established.So the chances are they did'nt know and are as clueless as the OP.

Have you looked at the NCT cert, does it look fake. Have you put it beside another NCT cert. Is it possible that there is a mistake on the behalf of NCT's.

What you all seem to be forgetting is, if this fake NCT cert thing had not come up, the OP would not have a leg to stand-on.The dealer in my eyes has nothing to answer for on the account of the car failing the NCT. He is only liable for the Fake Cert.

Well then Mr. Advocate, I would say the main problem is that the car the dealer sold was (unwittingly we assume) not as advertised.

Pkiernan

Ahorseofaman wrote: »

I have started the process of the small claims court and protested outside with my sign for 1/2 an hour at my lunchbreak.only reaction was one of the dealers saying he was getting on to his solicitor because my wife "upset him" so much when she rang to complain.(she was the one who ended up crying).Iintend to keep the picket low key at a 1/2 an hour a day til saturday when I will be outside all day.at 800 euro refund I lose 400 + the 140 I spent on tyres while he gets back a car he will fix at cost and probably sell on at a profit again. f**k that, I m holding out for a full refund.

Good job.

This is the only real course of action open to you, and it's great that you are taking it.
Hope you get all your money back.

Demonon

steve06 wrote: »

A new cat is cheap...

What are you talking about ? They range from €250 - €800 new depending on the car.

Merch

Demonon wrote: »

What are you talking about ? They range from €250 - €800 new depending on the car.

I was thinking a CAT wasn't cheap when I saw that post, but I wasn't certain, more distracted by other elements of the posts, I thought it would be closer to 1000 depending on the car, but that was off the top of my head I never guessed you could get one for any model at 250

langdang

170ish for a generic cat, obviously wouldn't suit every application but I'd call that cheap.

rebelccfc

I think you should ring into 96fm and expose him.

I can guess who it is already as i have heard this happenening to someone at a car dealer. OB are the initals of the surname of the dealer i know of.

He will be a lot more worried if people on 96fm hear. As the adds constantly say, about 100000 people listen to Neil Prenderville. Might be more effective than your picket.

Ahorseofaman

rebelccfc wrote: »

I think you should ring into 96fm and expose him.

I can guess who it is already as i have heard this happenening to someone at a car dealer. OB are the initals of the surname of the dealer i know of.

He will be a lot more worried if people on 96fm hear. As the adds constantly say, about 100000 people listen to Neil Prenderville. Might be more effective than your picket.

thats my next port of call.I had dealings with ob a long time ago ,another messer.They called the guards on me today but they said what I was doing was perfectly legal and apart from a friendly chat did nothing.The saga continues .Thanks for the support

langdang

Fair dues horse, fair dues. I can't believe they would rather call the guards on you rather than coming up another few hundred from the initial offer to get rid of you, you'd swear we were talking a few grand here!