Is there a lack of responsibility in Ireland?

DrumSteve

well is there?

I really believe that there is.

Right from the top down this is evident. From guys like O'Donoghue and O'Dea in goverment blaming everything on everyone but themselves (with respect both the expenses fiasco and the lible suit). The church, the banks, the public sector, the private sector... whatever. There just seems to be no desire for any one here to say " you know what, I ****ed up". The problem is I see this filtering down through society to the teenagers who go around smashing things up and gettign away with it due to a "broken home" or abuse or whatnot or knifing each other because they see the people of power in this country literrally get away with whatever they like and think why shouldn't they.

is there just a general lack of taking responsibility for your actions in this country? Cos there seems to me to be always some excuse to explain away even the worst of things.

Biggins

I'd say there is a lack of accountability also.

moonpurple

a High Court Judge wrote a report on a former Government leader and talked about the 'quality of our modern democracy'

it varies:

headline in todays Independant: 'HSE refuse to pass over files'

a certain lawlessness

time to become more German, time to be less irish and more European,

'a european solution to an Irish problem'

thats my 2cents!

prinz

I think it would be more apt to describe it as from the bottom up.

DrumSteve

prinz wrote: »

I think it would be more apt to describe it as from the bottom up.

How so?

prinz

DrumSteve wrote: »

How so?

People need to change at the ground level first. Then your elected officials etc will be different. There is still a massive culture of shirking responsibility in this country, until it changes at grass roots level those at the top won't be any different.

Kasabian

The problem is that as a nation we don't hold people responsible. Why aren't our prisons full of white collar workers?

NothingMan

As the great Bartholomew J. Simpson once said.

I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, can't prove anything.

storm2811

A fella I know got stabbed Saturday night,he's in hospital now,everyone in the town knows full well who did it,he's been fighting with him for ages and has done stuff like this before too many times,all that happened was that he wasn't allowed to leave his estate.

Hopefully now he'll get what he deserves before he goes around attacking people again.:mad:

PeterIanStaker

NothingMan wrote: »

As the not-so-great Bartholomew P. Ahern once said.

I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, can't prove anything.


FYP :cool:

mikom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ4axo9rmJY

Cavehill Red

NothingMan wrote: »

As the great Bartholomew J. Simpson once said: I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, can't prove anything.

Simpson or Ahern?

PeterIanStaker

NothingMan wrote: »

As the great Bartholomew J. Simpson once said.

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Simpson or Ahern?

Beat you to it :cool: see post #10

biko

prinz wrote: »

People need to change at the ground level first. Then your elected officials etc will be different. There is still a massive culture of shirking responsibility in this country, until it changes at grass roots level those at the top won't be any different.

I'd say it should start at the top. People have always taken their cue from those in power.
"Sure what does it matter if I pour some bleach down the drain when XXX company gets away with spilling tons of oil".

That said, responsibility should be taught in schools and by responsible parents.
Our children should be better citizens than we were.

prinz

biko wrote: »

That said, responsibility should be taught in schools and by responsible parents. Our children should be better citizens than we were.

+1, but having an attitude like the OP isn't going to help.

I don't see why people need to see someone else practice personal responsibility to take it upon themselves. It is in fact another facet of dodging personal responsibility - trying to blame someone else.

Cavehill Red

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Beat you to it :cool: see post #10

I'm glad that's so important for you.

ejmaztec

A nation of rabbits.:(


The Bunny Poem by Pam Ayres

I am a bunny rabbit
Sitting in me hutch
I like to sit up this end
I don't care for that end ... much.
I'm glad tomorrow's Thursday
'Cause with a bit of luck
As far as I can remember
That's the day they pass the buck!

PeterIanStaker

Cavehill Red wrote: »

I'm glad that's so important for you.

I never pass up the opportunity to target the architect of the country's demise (Bertie)

GTE

I've seen it in children not wanting to admit they did something.
I've seen it through secondary school with people just not willing to admit they did something or caused a problem.
I see it in college when a mistake is made and they are not willing to come clean.

In each different place I mentioned it gets worse and worse that no one can take responsibility. Primary schoolers are ok, secondary schoolers should know better and college goers are just idiots.

Then you have the people up to the very top.

I do believe there is a problem with people taking responsibility for their actions.











btw. For a future argument. . I didnt say any of that lol.:rolleyes:

Cavehill Red

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

I never pass up the opportunity to target the architect of the country's demise (Bertie)

Whatever.
I was referring to your glee at having posted the same sentiment as myself seconds earlier.
In what way does that fulfill you?

PeterIanStaker

Cavehill Red wrote: »

Whatever.
I was referring to your glee at having posted the same sentiment as myself seconds earlier.
In what way does that fulfill you?

I wasnt being gleeful (is that a word). Its actually interesting we think alike on the subject. Thats all. Peace, man.

electrofrog

Weaseling out of things is important to learn. It’s what separates us from the animals . . . .…except the weasel;)

saywhatyousee

is boards.ie run by germans?every thread without fail someone says we need to be more like germany. why there on the verge of destroying europe for the third time in 100 years

ScumLord

I don't really blame politicians to be honest. Their politicians, I don't get mad at a dog for wagging it's tail so I'm not going to get mad at a politician for being the best politician they can be within a corrupt system.

It's the people that are really to blame, the Irish sit back and expect to be waited on hand and foot by their government. We do nothing to get involved with the running of our country on a local level, that's why this country is screwed we have no interest in it. Politician are just the states employees they're nothing without the people behind them.

starbelgrade

Is there a lack of responsibility in Ireland?

Do I look like I give a f*ck? It's not my problem.

DrumSteve

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't really blame politicians to be honest. Their politicians, I don't get mad at a dog for wagging it's tail so I'm not going to get mad at a politician for being the best politician they can be within a corrupt system.

It's the people that are really to blame, the Irish sit back and expect to be waited on hand and foot by their government. We do nothing to get involved with the running of our country on a local level, that's why this country is screwed we have no interest in it. Politician are just the states employees they're nothing without the people behind them.

tbf the people arent behind FF and they still have the power to enact policy and deny by-elections.

Cheap Thrills!

I don't like responsibility, even me own so I'm not helpin' the Government to do theirs the lazy b0ll0xes.

I'm too tried. zzzzzzzzz.

BehindTheScenes

Well that's why we have the Gardai, let them do a better job. Anybody will try their best to get away with something until they get caught.

prinz

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Well that's why we have the Gardai, let them do a better job. Anybody will try their best to get away with something until they get caught.

Speak for yourself there chief. You sound like the sort of chap who even if the gardaí did catch you doing something would whine about why they weren't catching someone else etc.

ScumLord

DrumSteve wrote: »

tbf the people arent behind FF and they still have the power to enact policy and deny by-elections.

They're employees, we're stuck with them for now we should be on their backs getting them to do what needs to be done rather than being on their backs telling them how bad they've been, it's non-constructive just telling them they're crap instead of finding out what you actually need (locally) and getting them to do that.

As far as I can see the general public haven't a clue what they want, how can your employee know what way to act when they can't really get any clear message of what they should be doing from their employer.

unamused

prinz wrote: »

+1, but having an attitude like the OP isn't going to help.

I don't see why people need to see someone else practice personal responsibility to take it upon themselves. It is in fact another facet of dodging personal responsibility - trying to blame someone else.

I agree people tend to spend too much time worrying about what the person next to them is doing instead of looking at themselves and taking responsibility for their own actions

as my mother always said "if so and so jumped off a cliff does that mean you would do that also" she always taught me to be my own person not to jump on the bandwagon and if i f***ed up to admit it and take responsibility for it

harsh lessons where learned but at the end of the day i respect someone more if they can hold their hands up and say yes i messed up im sorry how do i fix it how do i make it better and learn for this experience so that if i encounter the same dilemma in the future i can handle it better

royston_vasey

DrumSteve wrote: »

tbf the people arent behind FF and they still have the power to enact policy and deny by-elections.

We democratically elected Fianna Fail as a party into government, you can argue about the Taoiseach but not the party elected.

As a previous poster commented we get what we deserve, we have seen Michael Lowry involved in corruption yet he still gets elected, we will see O'Donoghue get elected in the next election. Unless we, as an electorate, change our parish pump mentality we will always end up with politicians who are myopic and the continuum of inept and ineffectual government will prevail.

We have nobody in this country who can challenge the status quo as you need access to substantial funds and an established political network- at either local or regional level - to effectively stand any chance of election.

The really worrying aspect for me is that we have no leadership at present and when I look at the possible alternatives I'm not inspired by either of them. Both of them are popularists in their rhethoric but when it comes down to it they have no substance or effective policies, we have seen Enda Kenny embarassed on numerous occassions and I recall an edition of the Frontline where Pat Kenny destroyed Eamon Gilmore's policy statements.

I think we do need some form of credible democratic socialist party but unfortunately I cannot see this becoming a reality in the near future.:mad:

DrumSteve

ScumLord wrote: »

They're employees, we're stuck with them for now we should be on their backs getting them to do what needs to be done rather than being on their backs telling them how bad they've been, it's non-constructive just telling them they're crap instead of finding out what you actually need (locally) and getting them to do that.

As far as I can see the general public haven't a clue what they want, how can your employee know what way to act when they can't really get any clear message of what they should be doing from their employer.

It was general public feeling the John O'donoghue should have stepped down... what he did was morally wrong but technically within the rules. he was then given a soapbox in the dail to blame everyone but himself.

granted FF havent got a precise clear message from the public... but thats the beauty of a democracy in that everyone gets there opinion on how the place should be run. IMO certain banks cant be allowed to fail but if i said that to the goverment it'd be up to them to make the decision and take responsibility for it. however with the current crowd i would be named and shamed and all the fault for it would lay at my feet. I firmly believe that this goverment will do anything to abdicate responsibility for its actions.

(thats not to say the other crowd are better)

when you couple that with the disjointed sentences the courts are handing out, i believe the people just feel no connection with what their actions entail and what they lead to i.e. the murder of those 2 polish lads in drimnagh. The girls were never charged due to their age but imo they were well aware of their actions and should have received some form of punishment.

responsibility seems to be a foreign concept here.

As a side note, i would say on a personal level i have always tried to take responsibility for my actions. at the end of the day you can lie to everyone else but you cant lie to yourself.

BehindTheScenes

prinz wrote: »

Speak for yourself there chief. You sound like the sort of chap who even if the gardaí did catch you doing something would whine about why they weren't catching someone else etc.

Me whine, no, have never been a whiner as such. I have a great relationship with An GS whenever something comes my way I take a badge number and name and give my uncle a call. The man has not failed to sort out a situation yet with one of his subrodinates on my behalf.

Some will hate me for that but it's great when it can be resolved by a telephone call.

prinz

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Me whine, no, have never been a whiner as such. I have a great relationship with An GS whenever something comes my way I take a badge number and name and give my uncle a call. The man has not failed to sort out a situation yet with one of his subrodinates on my behalf..

I find the above laughable at best. I've never met a garda yet who would 'sort a situation' out for a colleague/superior. Must be in Donegal or somewhere.

Dudess

I don't know whether the abdication of personal responsibility is an Irish thing, but then again look at insurance premiums here.
On a daily basis I encounter quite shocking levels of spoonfeeding requirements. Now to be fair, I think it's only human to require/request some bit of spoonfeeding, but certain people take the absolute piss.

goose2005

storm2811 wrote: »

A fella I know got stabbed Saturday night,he's in hospital now,everyone in the town knows full well who did it,he's been fighting with him for ages and has done stuff like this before too many times,all that happened was that he wasn't allowed to leave his estate.

Hopefully now he'll get what he deserves before he goes around attacking people again.:mad:

Do you plan on testifying against him?

Not that that would make much difference as his distraught mother would say that he'd "always" been a "good" "boy" up to now. Suspended sentence and free to cut your throat.

prinz

Dudess wrote: »

I don't know whether the abdication of personal responsibility is an Irish thing, but then again look at insurance premiums here..

Part of the reason for that was the whole compo-culture which emerged here, second only to the US IIRC. People getting compensated for their own stupidity quite frequently."it's not my job to watch where I'm walking...;)

BehindTheScenes

prinz wrote: »

I find the above laughable at best. I've never met a garda yet who would 'sort a situation' out for a colleague/superior. Must be in Donegal or somewhere.

Really, you aren't friends with or related to any Gardai then.

Hank_Jones

It's basically just that the people in these positions are complete cowards.
If they can get away with doing that sort of thing and then plead ignorance and get away with it...
They are obviously going to do it.
It's just the system we have.

Would you expect Brian Cowen to ever stand up and say that he was wrong?
I'd say Obama would. I would think FDR would have.
It's all to do with what type of men/women they are.

BehindTheScenes

Hank_Jones wrote: »

Would you expect Brian Cowen to ever stand up and say that he was wrong?
I'd say Obama would. I would think FDR would have.
It's all to do with what type of men/women they are.

I don't like Biffo or the gang but at the end of the day Obama is no different to him.

Obama is a politician, no more, no less. Two incidents where I have heard nothing from him, firstly his aunt not being deported when she should have been, secondly drilling for oil so he could run through his health care reforms.

As well, he is on the same road as Cowen. The U.S.A. will be more in more debt than at any time in its' history. I have heard him say plenty about the Bush administration and their mistakes (of which their is plenty). Very little about his own.

prinz

BehindTheScenes wrote: »

Really, you aren't friends with or related to any Gardai then.

Actually I am both.

storm2811

goose2005 wrote: »

Do you plan on testifying against him?

Not that that would make much difference as his distraught mother would say that he'd "always" been a "good" "boy" up to now. Suspended sentence and free to cut your throat.

They got him there a few hours ago,tried to do a runner up to the north:pac:

No idea what's happening now,but I'm sure he'll deny everything or call it "self defense":mad:

BehindTheScenes

prinz wrote: »

Actually I am both.

Interesting, I have a friend and uncle based in Dublin and it has never been a problem to get anything 'taken care of.'