Overkill, bang/knife kills, semi/full auto

Airsoft Reloded

Hi all,

I'm just wondering what people's opinons are on the above. Do you agree with the bang kill as a rule or a courtesy, do you agree with semi when close up or in a building?

I personally prefer the knife kill rule to the bang kill and maybe an overkill rule instead of a semi rule i.e. Your not to riddle someone close up but you don't have to risk going semi and missing the initial shot.

What do you guys think?

MagicIRL

Personally I like the bang rule - There really is no need to blast someone when your close enough to basically touch them with an outstretched arm.

As far as Semi goes Im not a fan - Granted I like the idea of not riddling someone when your very close but burst fire is a better alternative. Certain AEGs for example, the AK47/74 have a fire selector thats rather difficult to swap between ASAP.

swiftblade

The bang rule and knife kill is basically the same thing. But you do get some plonkers shouting bang from a mile away :rolleyes: Theres nothing like sneaking up behind someone to get a kill

StevieGriff

Totally agree with the bang kill rule, can cut out some very unnessary bad vibes between players and of course some painful shots. But how it's put to use all comes down to a good brief before games.

I like semi in buildings, way more practical. It demotes "OMG something moved" reactions followed by a hosing of a target that isn't there and of course its a hell of a lot safer. People are gunna check for sure what there shooting before they waste valuable time over shooting a dead man walking or a marshall.

Washington Irving

I perfer the bang rule, but if at a distance where I'm not sure if I'm close enough to bang kill or far enough to shoot, I usually fire two shots on semi to the vest (eg Avoid the head and groin area). Two shots just so they know they've actually been hit

J.D.R

Knife rule is well better. I was sneakign up by a window, and with the window half closed, the person inside the room tried to Bang kill me, even though there was no way he could have seen or shot me!

My phylosophy is if they have their back turned to you, bang rule can be OK, but if you are facing someone, and they are close, double tap to a Well padded area (ie vest) cause, I have often stared down at someone barrel quite close, and have them miss!! From under 10 feet away!:eek:

Also, i have been in the same situation where they bang killed me, have me take the hit, and then have them reload their mag cause they were out of ammo!! I personally hate playing with the bang rule. But I wouldn't mind playing with the Kinfe kill or Semi rule

J.D.R

StevieGriff wrote: »

Totally agree with the bang kill rule, can cut out some very unnessary bad vibes between players and of course some painful shots. But how it's put to use all comes down to a good brief before games.

I like semi in buildings, way more practical. It demotes "OMG something moved" reactions followed by a hosing of a target that isn't there and of course its a hell of a lot safer. People are gunna check for sure what there shooting before they waste valuable time over shooting a dead man walking or a marshall.

What I do to avoid this is always walk with my hand around the corner, and when exiting a door, always shout loudly, dead man coming out. Avoids alot of anger from you getting hit, and them giving away a good position.

But that might just be me

Airsoft Reloded

The thing I don't like about the bang rule (for example), Bert was playing in Drogheda the other day and some fella shouted bang at him and before the guy could even finish saying it Bert swung around and shot him square in the mask. The guy was roughly 20 ft away and behind a bit of cover and he haden't even got his gun pointed at Bert, so I mean in that situation what is the player to do? Obviously you shoot the guy who was stupid enough to give away his postion withoout even having his gun pointed at you yeah?

The knife kill rule gives you the same advantage without the disadvantage of having to say something.

Also what happens if you wander into a room that has say 4 people in it, mass bang kill, or say it 4 times? Its a bit silly I think when you could just shoot them all.

As far as semi I would say burst instead, say a double tap or three to the body, this way your not lacing the person but your not leaving the possibility of missing the first shot either.

andy_g

I prefare bang as a courtousy but also semi in really close quaters

Airsoft Reloded

andy_g wrote: »

I prefare bang as a courtousy but also semi in really close quaters

But what about the problems I mentioned about the bang kill?

MerryDespot

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

The thing I don't like about the bang rule (for example), Bert was playing in Drogheda the other day and some fella shouted bang at him and before the guy could even finish saying it Bert swung around and shot him square in the mask. The guy was roughly 20 ft away and behind a bit of cover and he haden't even got his gun pointed at Bert, so I mean in that situation what is the player to do? Obviously you shoot the guy who was stupid enough to give away his postion withoout even having his gun pointed at you yeah?

The knife kill rule gives you the same advantage without the disadvantage of having to say something.

Also what happens if you wander into a room that has say 4 people in it, mass bang kill, or say it 4 times? Its a bit silly I think when you could just shoot them all.

As far as semi I would say burst instead, say a double tap or three to the body, this way your not lacing the person but your not leaving the possibility of missing the first shot either.

If you're going to give bang kills the rule would have to be that it only applies where the shooter has his gun pointed at the target, is within a certain distance (so it's for safety reasons). That stops some plonker going into a room and trying a multi bang!
If someone full auto'd me at extreme close range I would not be happy - it has happened and usually when it does I've to supress the urge to turn and empty a mid cap into them - a burst is grand - as said above moving the selector on an ak in a hurry is a bit of a pain in the rear...

Airsoft Reloded

MerryDespot wrote: »

If you're going to give bang kills the rule would have to be that it only applies where the shooter has his gun pointed at the target, is within a certain distance (so it's for safety reasons). That stops some plonker going into a room and trying a multi bang!
If someone full auto'd me at extreme close range I would not be happy - it has happened and usually when it does I've to supress the urge to turn and empty a mid cap into them - a burst is grand - as said above moving the selector on an ak in a hurry is a bit of a pain in the rear...

And would you have the bang kill as a mandatory rule (as in when its offered you have to take it)? I ask because even in paintball :pac: the surrender rules is optional.

If you offer it to someone and they shoot you instead would you not be annoyed?

Puding

bang or knife in cqb there generally the same thing just different name, there an alternative option to firing

i like the bang rule as a curtsy because that's the game i play and even if the rule is not in force i will normal still use it because i would like to think people would do the same to me

and semi is always a good option in cqb from a safety but also game play point of view, with auto used freely it just becomes an endurance game, semi still allows the option of movement

yes the bang bang rule can be abused but that is not the fault of rule itself more the mentality of players that would abuse it, it all comes down to how people see rules some people see them and the first thing they do is see how far they can push them

all you can do is set the rules up for the style of play you want to encourage and people can either play that way or go somewhere else, your not going to please all the people all the time

for me it would be:

- bang kills should be offered if the player does not accept it then semi to the chest, aeg/gbb has to be pointed at player
- try and avoid head shots
- i do not mind semi across the board but an alternative would be , semi in stairs or in really enclosed area ( people just have to use common sense )

if you have to start adding to much to the rules like set distances and massive list of does and don't then your going to be fighting a lossing battle

andy_g

I think merrydespot answered the question. Even if it wasnt mandatory i would still offer it. like all rules there will always be someone to try push it out. Tbh it should be used as a courtesy at 10 or less ft and gun pointed at the person that you are going to shoot if they reject it

Sod'o swords

I'd give a bang kill if i was near point blank to someone's head/face, otherwise just a semi shot to the chest/leg.

This is one of the things I hate most about airsoft, more than non hit taking, nearly everyone seems to liveee on full auto, there's no need for it at all.
It takes one shot to kill, yet you have lads peppering the shíte out of you.
The only time I don't use Semi is when giving covering fire or suppressing fire. Walking around or trying to hit someone, I keep it on semi, in case i come across someone close.

Another annoying thing is people going for head shots, I don't think they mean it, or so I hope, but must have it built into them from something. Because i'm 6 foot 3, and get shot in the head more than any other place when just standing out in the open. It would be so much easier to shoot me in the chest, yet nearly always in the head.

Knife kills work well in some cases, like silently taking out lads, but i've seen some stupid stuff where one lad was just sprinting around trying to knife kill people..

Airsoft Reloded

Thanks for the input Puding.

When in The Warehouse we operated a no bang kill rule (that is to say that it wasen't even allowed to be offered) and we never had any injuries because of that decision (but I know what your saying).

I don't agree with lacing people but a couple of shots close up (by a couple I mean 2 or 3 and by close I mean like 10 ft) can't hurt. The knife rules is different than the bang rule in that you have to actually touch the other player, proving that you had the jump on them (its also a lot cooler :cool:).

Now if you entered a room (holding 6 enemy players), aimed your gun at someone and offered a bang kill would the others not straight away kill you? Where as you could enter the room and kill them all before they had a chance to act. That is one of my major issues with the bang kill rule, it doesn't allow for mass engagement.

Also I have seen amazing movement in The Warehouse with over 40 people blasting away, you'd be surprised how some people use a huge firefight for cover sometimes (you know what I mean).

Puding wrote: »

bang or knife in cqb there generally the same thing just different name, there an alternative option to firing

i like the bang rule as a curtsy because that's the game i play and even if the rule is not in force i will normal still use it because i would like to think people would do the same to me

and semi is always a good option in cqb from a safety but also game play point of view, with auto used freely it just becomes an endurance game, semi still allows the option of movement

yes the bang bang rule can be abused but that is not the fault of rule itself more the mentality of players that would abuse it, it all comes down to how people see rules some people see them and the first thing they do is see how far they can push them

all you can do is set the rules up for the style of play you want to encourage and people can either play that way or go somwhere else, your not going to please all the people all the time

Airsoft Reloded

Sod'o swords wrote: »

Knife kills work well in some cases, like silently taking out lads, but i've seen some stupid stuff where one lad was just sprinting around trying to knife kill people..

All rules are subject to gob****es unfortunately.

Puding

i know what you mean i;ve done it myself, but personally everyone blazing away on full is not the kinda game i want to play, but i do appreciate that a lot of people do want to play like that, its why i gave the advice to set the rules with an eye to one of two things

to me the bang bang rule is not about safety its about a style of play and active choice by the players

- to attract the highest number of people ( as a business this is off course important )
or
- choice a rule set that encourages the type of play you like and run with it

people who want to play will play

what i do not like to see is the macho ball to the wall attitude that creeps in when you talk about stuff like this, people think its ;weck; and ;sissy' to offer a bang bang and crap like that, again it comes down to how you view the hobby/sport

Airsoft Reloded

Puding wrote: »

what i do not like to see is the macho ball to the wall attitude that creeps in when you talk about stuff like this, people think its ;weck; and ;sissy' to offer a bang bang and crap like that, again it comes down to how you view the hobby/sport

I think people are mainly messing when they joke about things like that.

One of our old customers (Keegan) was saying we should offer days where the different rules apply. What do you think of that?

Again I like the oppisite style of game play than you do but no harm in trying to accomadate all sorts I guess.

Gray

Knife kill should be a rule-if you can sneak up on someone & touch them fare enough (your good at that Brian)

Bang kill should be a curtousy when up close-I've had an AEG poked through a window at my head:eek: & heard "bang kill" better than a BB from 2 foot:). But it is a bit ridiculous from 20 foot.

Semi-auto can work well, we played the courtyard game in Red Barn entirely on semi-auto today instead of with amo-limits & it worked really well. It really depends on the stile of game you want to play.

Puding

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

I think people are mainly messing when they joke about things like that.

One of our old customers (Keegan) was saying we should offer days where the different rules apply. What do you think of that?

Again I like the oppisite style of game play than you do but no harm in trying to accomadate all sorts I guess.

would agree at lot of it macho joking, the problem I've come across and played with new players who believe the hype and play like that, the next thing you know is people are butting heads unfortunately

only my 2 cents

Inari

My perspective:

Knife Kill:
In my eyes, this is a stealthy way of eliminating opponents. So for arguments sake, it'd mostly be done with the other players back turned. Sneaking up, and eliminating someone without the whurrr of the gearbox etc giving away your position, should be allowed. If you manage to get close enough to 'kill' someone with a knife, without harm to yourself (i.e. in stealth) then you deserve the kill. It's as 'real' as getting shot with a BB. I can't see any reason for not using it in the slightest. If people choose not to use it, I'd see it as just that...a personal choice. Maybe they don't think they could get that close, perhaps they don't feel that they would be capable of 'knifing' someone in the scenario, but if you are...kudos.

BANG Kills:
Courtesy. If someone is side on (using to distinguish between the above) and close, but hasn't seen you, then keep your finger on the trigger and offer BANG...if they don't call hit right away then fire off the shot. If you do not feel comfortable to make the shot if they choose not to accept bang, you shouldn't have offered it. Bang is when you have a guaranteed kill shot. It's, as far as I'm concerned, something that's there for courtesy.

Overkill/Semi-Auto:
Anti-Overkill is better than Semi-only. I much prefer semi, but I respect everyones choice to play the game as they wish. It would be overkill if I pulled the trigger 20 times @ 2ft range on semi. Just as it would be overkill to do so on full auto, therefore I think it's safe to say that an Overkill rule is much more enforceable, with crap all loopholes.

Airsoft Reloded

Puding wrote: »

would agree at lot of it macho joking, the problem I've come across and played with new players who believe the hype and play like that, the next thing you know is people are butting heads unfortunately

only my 2 cents

Granted, I have seen a lot of that myself but I have also seen it when there was no overkill. I shot a guy before with 5 hits and he start flipping out. This was from around 100 ft away aswell, it depends on the person.

I agree fully with what you said though.

Another problem with single fire is sometimes you don't feel the hit, this also causes a lot of problems and arguments even when all players are playing honestly there can be problems because of this.

Puding

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Granted, I have seen a lot of that myself but I have also seen it when there was no overkill. I shot a guy before with 5 hits and he start flipping out. This was from around 100 ft away aswell, it depends on the person.

I agree fully with what you said though.

well we all know those types of players tbh, and not matter the rule set or the game type that type of personality will show throw

Airsoft Reloded

Puding wrote: »

well we all know those types of players tbh, and not matter the rule set or the game type that type of personality will show throw

Thats true, I guess my statement was a bit pointless really.

MerryDespot

Sod'o swords wrote: »

Another annoying thing is people going for head shots, I don't think they mean it, or so I hope, but must have it built into them from something. Because i'm 6 foot 3, and get shot in the head more than any other place when just standing out in the open. It would be so much easier to shoot me in the chest, yet nearly always in the head.

I'd say this is a call of duty hangover! Get what you mean though - I'd never intend a head shot unless it was the only part of someone that was peeking out over or around cover - centre mass is just such a bigger target (even more so in my case!).

Damo 2k9

When i was playing today i only found out how much bang kill should be used when necessary, this was about 3 ft away and he put a small burst into me but caught me in the arm and the neck and it left a hefty mark
I try bang kill people whenever possible, because i wouldnt like it done to me but i dont go crazy on them and normally only ever bang kill people from 5-7 ft away.
If theres multiple people in the room then all is needed is a double tap to the torso area
Semi indoors i think is a good idea because most people nowadays are going crazy with the 11.1 lipos and if it was semi only then it would show that rof isint everything

joe stodge

i personally hate bang kills. there is nothing worse than a lad running into a room full of people and shouting bang, then throwing a hissy fit when they all open up on him. if your close enough for a bang kill your usuall close enough for a knife kill.

i'd also usually go semi when close up only using full auto for covering fire or long distance. but then again there has been a few time where i have turned quick and and went full auto close up (just out of surprise more then anything). i dont get angry when hit on full auto close up as im out to hit and get hit.

birdman 1979

I am all for bang kills, theirs nothing like creeping up beside someone and going BANG. I have played indoor, where their was a no bang rule. I got lit up at close range so many times that i rapidly lost intrest in playing indoors over it.

Also with bang kills their has to be a bit of cop on. E.G somebody that is 30ft away or in a room.

Damo 2k9

I agree that if theres multiple people in the room then thats a bit stupid, if theres multiple people in the room then they should just double tap them on single shot, but if theres only one person then i think bang kills should be used.

Airsoft Reloded

birdman 1979 wrote: »

I am all for bang kills, theirs nothing like creeping up beside someone and going BANG. I have played indoor, where their was a no bang rule. I got lit up at close range so many times that i rapidly lost intrest in playing indoors over it.

Also with bang kills their has to be a bit of cop on. E.G somebody that is 30ft away or in a room.

A lot of people don't like the pain caused by cqb but obviously the bang rule can't work in a cqb environment anyway, you couldn't have an indoor site with that rule in place, it just wouldn't work. I would prefer to sneak up, tap someone on the shoulder and see the surprise on their face as you walk on sniggering.

I guess its a matter of opinion though.

Airsoft Reloded

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

I agree that if theres multiple people in the room then thats a bit stupid, if theres multiple people in the room then they should just double tap them on single shot, but if theres only one person then i think bang kills should be used.

Its getting a bit to complicated when you start talking amount of people in rooms and what not though no?

birdman 1979

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

A lot of people don't like the pain caused by cqb but obviously the bang rule can't work in a cqb environment anyway, you couldn't have an indoor site with that rule in place, it just wouldn't work. I would prefer to sneak up, tap someone on the shoulder and see the surprise on their face as you walk on sniggering.

I guess its a matter of opinion though.

True, when i played indoor, i offered a bang kill to players, who were within 10 feet, in my line of sight, not behind cover. Most took the hit, players that did not, got a double tap to the upper body.

When i play i am not out to hurt people, just have some good clean fun.

Miscreant

I have been on the receiving end of some pretty horrendous full auto bursts to the back at point blank range during CQB scenarios (and they were not from my own team ) so I would definitely be in favour of a bang or knife kill rule.
A simple double tap is effective too if the person is not willing to acknowledge the "kill".

TheDoc

Bang rule - Courtesty, player discretion, causes so much confusion and aggro i wish it would just be forgotten about and hope that common sense prevails.

Semi auto indoor and in CQb is a must for a fun enviroment. Using full auto indoors or cqb is fail and just makes for **** games.

Knife kills are immense

SpookyBastard

I personally always try to avoid causing my targets pain. So I avoid aiming for the head, etc. If the head is all I can see I'll usually try and reposition to increase my chances of missing the head or just wait for the target to move. I'm almost never on full auto anyway but its certainly semi/single in cqb. Only need 1 beeb to get the kill after all.

Big fan of the bang kill, as sometimes you're very close and it's the right thing to do. It is only a game after all. Guess it's like touch rugby in a way. Sure I could hammer a couple of beebs into your chest/legs/arse but since you're hit either way I might as well be gentle

Had a nice occurrence in January, coming around a corner and meeting an enemy head on. Double bang killed each other... was funny caus we both jumped from fright. I guess we could have agreed a parley but you don't see that option/rule used often.

Airsoft Reloded

So, no bang kill (knife kills instead) and a rule that when your close up go semu auto (or even single tap if you can).

That sound like a good scenario?

Damo 2k9

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Its getting a bit to complicated when you start talking amount of people in rooms and what not though no?

Well, when briefing at the start of each game then explain that the bang kill can be used but not only one person, if theres multiple people in the room then just double tap them.

flashinbluelite

TheDoc wrote: »

Bang rule - Courtesty, player discretion, causes so much confusion and aggro i wish it would just be forgotten about and hope that common sense prevails.

Semi auto indoor and in CQb is a must for a fun enviroment. Using full auto indoors or cqb is fail and just makes for **** games.

Knife kills are immense

If im playing with airsoft players that i know wont riddle me from 2 or 3 metres , i actually prefer semi-auto, adds fear and realism....

if you riddle me in full auto and then have the cheek to tell me to take me hit i will spas 14 you back to last week....

but i have nothing but respect for a airsoft player that can get close enough without me knowing and knife kill me(you know who you are).... i also think that if you are knife killed you should not shout "HIT" just drop to the ground or walk off and respawn....

So to close, you know me use semi wisely, you dont know me just try full auto.....first round on me .....all the other rounds on you....

k99_64

Semi auto all the way in close quaters, and i think that the bang kill rule should only be used when you have someone who is unaware of your presence (you are behind him and have him dead in the water.

Ive had experiances with some people jumping out shouting 'BANG BANG BANG' in front of me when we both had ammo and were aware of where each of us were.

silverhare

The bang rule is just too unrealistic for me. Too much like being eight again and pointing cap guns at my mates. If you're in a position to use the bang rule, you're in a position to shout 'didi mau' or 'Hande Hoch!' or, make a knife kill. This gives your opponent the opportunity to avoid a possibly painful close range hit, the choice is theirs

That said, my preference is most definitely for CQB. CQB and a bang rule mean you might never squeeze the trigger.

I really don't care if people are on full or semi, so long as a little sense is used. Short bursts on auto and the occasional single tap should be enough to hit any acquired target, longer bursts to lay down suppressing fire.

Airsoft Reloded

It seems like people are in general agreement about the knife kill rule (that its epic) and most agree that a few rounds close up is no harm.

I'll adjust our rules to suit the consensus, thanks for all the posts guys.

Hardtop

I have no issues with full auto in cqb, 3 or 6 round bursts is fine, part of the problem i think is people having five or 6 highcaps on them for a game that lasts 15 minutes. there is just no incentive to conserve ammunition.

when we went to the mall they didn't call it a bang rule, they called it surrender ie: if you came up on some one from behind you could ask them to surrender and they could if they wanted try and turn and take you out.

captaindanwaldo

What I hate is the 'we dont use the bang rule but you can use the bang rule' speil...Ive often used the bang rule on such a site only to have someone whip around (or try to) and piss their own weight in plastic at me...(whats the skill involved in that).
If your behind someone and within a reasonable distance they should take it...

And as for using 'bang' in a room with more than one person, its just as easy to point your aeg and shout bang at each of them as it is to point your aeg and squeeze...if you expect to kill all of them with the one bang do you expect to kill all of them with the one shot?

€0.02

Airsoft Reloded

captaindanwaldo wrote: »

What I hate is the 'we dont use the bang rule but you can use the bang rule' speil...Ive often used the bang rule on such a site only to have someone whip around (or try to) and piss their own weight in plastic at me...(whats the skill involved in that).
If your behind someone and within a reasonable distance they should take it...

If you offered an enemy to surrender he/she mite just turn and shoot you too. That is the reason we barred the rule from the warehouse, just to avoid confusion.

captaindanwaldo wrote: »

And as for using 'bang' in a room with more than one person, its just as easy to point your aeg and shout bang at each of them as it is to point your aeg and squeeze...if you expect to kill all of them with the one bang do you expect to kill all of them with the one shot?

€0.02

No but you could just pull the tirgger and whip the gun across the room killing everyone in a fraction of the time

Agent Larkin

I like both the knife and bang kill rule because they are both useful in different circumstances.

However as someone who can't afford a helmet yet and only has a Balaclava to stop pellets I'm a big fan of the Semi rule.

Airsoft Reloded

Hi all, thanks a lot for all your comments. Our rules have been adjusted to suit the majority of your opinions.

Our new rules are:

When close use the knife kill if possible, other wise it must be a single (or two) shots into the abdomen.

Semi (Or Burst) fire will be instructed instead of full auto for engagements

The Bang kill is still not allowed on any Airsoft Reloaded site.

Inari

Why is the bang kill 'not allowed'?

I don't understand why it's effectively barred, when it's just a courtesy. Both knife & bang have their uses, and bang could be used a differently. I can understand why it wouldn't be enforced by marshals (as it's a courtesy, and is users choice to give/take), but cannot see why banned

gerrowadat

Inari wrote: »

Why is the bang kill 'not allowed'?

I don't understand why it's effectively barred, when it's just a courtesy. Both knife & bang have their uses, and bang could be used a differently. I can understand why it wouldn't be enforced by marshals (as it's a courtesy, and is users choice to give/take), but cannot see why banned

Bang kills have caused more rows than anything else in my experience.

Either some loser pops up 20 years away and goes 'bang!' or some other loser gets all pissy because you didn't take the bang kill hit.

rossla

Not a fan of bangkill myself, I'd prefare knife kills up close or a shot or 2, but i dont use a shotgun for cqb to offer bang kills when i'm in the best range to use it

Airsoft Reloded

gerrowadat wrote: »

Bang kills have caused more rows than anything else in my experience.

Either some loser pops up 20 years away and goes 'bang!' or some other loser gets all pissy because you didn't take the bang kill hit.

Thats exactly why !