unhappy with .204

remington 700

i just changed from a .223 to a .204 and can make no hand of it by night by day i can hit whatever is put in front of me but cant hit foxes by night. is it just i have to get used of the gun or wha

johngalway

Questions you might get asked.

What size groups are you getting by day?

What experience did you have shooting at night previous to having the .204?

Are you using a bipod or other type of rest?

What lamp are you using?

Are you accurately judging the range of your target at night?

What rounds are you using?

What scope and mounts are on the rifle?

Is the rifle moderated?

Do you generally feel comfortable with your new rifle?

What trigger unit is in your rifle?

Do you think you may be flinching or more nervous shooting at foxes than at targets?

tomcat220t

remington 700 wrote: »

i just changed from a .223 to a .204 and can make no hand of it by night by day i can hit whatever is put in front of me but cant hit foxes by night. is it just i have to get used of the gun or wha

I have seen this myself .If your used the the drop of the .223 then take out the .204 ,there more likely to be going over your prays back at a bit of distance.What round are you using with the .204 ? What group size?

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

I have seen this myself .If your used the the drop of the .223 then take out the .204 ,there more likely to be going over your prays back at a bit of distance.What round are you using with the .204 ? What group size?

If the .204 is as flat as the chart says it is Tom seems to be bang on the money. you prob are using hold over where none is required. I've my .223 zero at 200 and i often do the opposite on close range and forget that my round is high at 50 and 100 and over the head of the bunny she goes. Just aim bang on with the .204.

Failing that shoot at paper at several distances and work out your own chart!

pat58

remington 700 wrote: »

i just changed from a .223 to a .204 and can make no hand of it by night by day i can hit whatever is put in front of me but cant hit foxes by night. is it just i have to get used of the gun or wha

Are you sure your not hitting them and they are just running off with that light round,

tomcat220t

pat58 wrote: »

Are you sure your not hitting them and they are just running off with that light round,

Whats the min. energy ,in your mind for a clean kill on a fox if the round is put in the right spot?

Tackleberrywho

pat58 wrote: »

Are you sure your not hitting them and they are just running off with that light round,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-BwrKhU-7o

Not that light when it hits a madra rua !:D
or a coyote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILE15su4BOM&feature=related

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

Whats the min. energy ,in your mind for a clean kill on a fox if the round is put in the right spot?

13 times the weight of the animal in ft/lbs is my rule of tumb
fox weighs 10lbs 130ft/lbs will kill him

tomcat220t

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

13 times the weight of the animal in ft/lbs is my rule of tumb
fox weighs 10lbs 130ft/lbs will kill him

Well ,when you consider the .22 hornet will give a clean kill out to 200 yards with a WELL placed shot its not lack of hitting power with the .204.

pat58

I would use noting less than my trusty old .270,:DIm sure those little rounds can do the job in hand ,But when you want something deader than dead and flat shooting noting does it better than the .270;), pound for pound the best all rounder on the market, 9 out of 10 foxes dont recommend them:D:D

tomcat220t

pat58 wrote: »

I would use noting less than my trusty old .270,:DIm sure those little rounds can do the job in hand ,But when you want something deader than dead and flat shooting noting does it better than the .270;), pound for pound the best all rounder on the market, 9 out of 10 foxes dont recommend them:D:D

The OP is missing shots at night so even with a 50cal. its no help.Im sure the .270 does a fine job on mr. fox ,aswell.;)

Tackleberrywho

pat58 wrote: »

I would use noting less than my trusty old .270,:DIm sure those little rounds can do the job in hand ,But when you want something deader than dead and flat shooting noting does it better than the .270;), pound for pound the best all rounder on the market, 9 out of 10 foxes dont recommend them:D:D

Ah but it kicks like a mule:D if it is a light barreled version
I think they are a fantastic round, but I think in a fox round they are just too loud and hard hitting. the .204 .223 is what was designed for foxes, anything else is just a waste of energy. The .223 Polymer tipped rounds are more devastating on a fox than a soft nose 270 IMHO. I went out bunny shooting with a mate and his .270 one day and he was amazed at the power of the .223 on bunnies. He thought the 270 would be ten times netter, it just was 10 times louder

Do you use a mod on your .270? Otherwise you would scare everything else in the parish under ground.
I shot 4 rabbits yesterday from the same spot in the space of ~ 45 mins with a .223 moderated

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3z70GnRWRA

remington 700

both guns were rem 700

this one has an adjusted trigger
i have a swivel bipod
i had no problems shooting foxes with the .223
i would have done alot of fox shooting

the only thing is one day i found my on light face down on the seat of the car there are no burn marks on it but there was a smell would this affect it

pat58

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Ah but it kicks like a mule:D if it is a light barreled version
I think they are a fantastic round, but I think in a fox round they are just too loud and hard hitting. the .204 .223 is what was designed for foxes, anything else is just a waste of energy. The .223 Polymer tipped rounds are more devastating on a fox than a soft nose 270 IMHO. I went out bunny shooting with a mate and his .270 one day and he was amazed at the power of the .223 on bunnies. He thought the 270 would be ten times netter, it just was 10 times louder

Do you use a mod on your .270? Otherwise you would scare everything else in the parish under ground.
I shot 4 rabbits yesterday from the same spot in the space of ~ 45 mins with a .223 moderated


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3z70GnRWRA

It has a varment barrel ,The combination of that and a can brings recoil and noise back an acceptable level,;) And as for .223 or .204 both are excellent rounds well capable of doing the job in hand it all boils down to bullet placement especially with the smaller rounds:D

Tomcat, Then with the op (no insult intended)Its not down to caliber or bullet energy,its down to a trip to specsavers.

tomcat220t

remington 700 wrote: »

both guns were rem 700

this one has an adjusted trigger
i have a swivel bipod
i had no problems shooting foxes with the .223
i would have done alot of fox shooting

the only thing is one day i found my on light face down on the seat of the car there are no burn marks on it but there was a smell would this affect it

Affect what?Need a bit more detail.What ammo are you using?What way is it set ? What size groups?

Tackleberrywho

remington 700 wrote: »

both guns were rem 700

this one has an adjusted trigger
i have a swivel bipod
i had no problems shooting foxes with the .223
i would have done alot of fox shooting

the only thing is one day i found my on light face down on the seat of the car there are no burn marks on it but there was a smell would this affect it

Should not, very dangerous that, could set your car on fire. Halogens get very hot!

I think you just need to get used to the round and the trigger, you might be pulling it before you are ready.
A light trigger can be hard to get used to at first, I could never go back now to a heavy trigger though.

Paper tells no lies, put up a target @ vqrious ranges and test grouping and point of impact.

Has your scope been changed too? Maybe the scope eye relief is the problem and you are not properly on target?

remington 700

would this affect the efficiency of the light
i have a burris scope 6-14
warne mounts
im using hornady 40gr
and its doing a inch group

tomcat220t

remington 700 wrote: »

would this affect the efficiency of the light
i have a burris scope 6-14
warne mounts
im using hornady 40gr
and its doing a inch group

Thats 1" group at 100 yards im guessing ?Try the 39gr Federal ammo .The 40gr hornady seem to need a tighter twist (1-11)or less.Have you tried the 40gr at 200 or 300 yards on paper?Good chance this is where your problem lies.Your 40gr round is destablizing ,out at distance.

remington 700

i have checked it at a range ands its spot on. i have had this scope with years shot hundreds of foxes with. maybe i do need to get used of the trigger its a lovely trigger for setting up gun but maybe its different in the field. i have a .270 tikka T3 for deer and had no problem with that shot deer straight off the shoulder

tomcat220t

remington 700 wrote: »

i have checked it at a range ands its spot on. i have had this scope with years shot hundreds of foxes with. maybe i do need to get used of the trigger its a lovely trigger for setting up gun but maybe its different in the field. i have a .270 tikka T3 for deer and had no problem with that shot deer straight off the shoulder

1" is not great at 100 yards for a .204 .Trigger,scope,all that ....if your happy with your results during the day your setup should work fine for night time shooting.How far out have you shot it on paper with the 40gr hornady and with what results?

remington 700

i never checked it out to more than 100 yards.

remington 700

everybody seems to b raving about the 39gr federal ammo is it really that good in .204 or is hornady rounds really that poor

Tackleberrywho

Remington 700

Your groups should be no bigger than twice this size @100. If they are you will have issues at further ranges.
Did you Zero yourself or have another do it for you?

tomcat220t

remington 700 wrote: »

i never checked it out to more than 100 yards.

My advice is forget the 40gr hornady rounds .I have yet to see good results with them in a remington or any other make of rifle with 1-12 rifle twist .Get yourself a box of 39gr and set it.75" high at 100 yards and you will be a lot happier .

tomcat220t

remington 700 wrote: »

everybody seems to b raving about the 39gr federal ammo is it really that good in .204 or is hornady rounds really that poor

The hornady 40gr is not as good in the wind down range as the federal 39gr but if your rifle could stableize them they would be very accurate aswell.

Tackleberrywho

tomcat220t wrote: »

The hornady 40gr is not as good in the wind down range as the federal 39gr but if your rifle could stableize them they would be very accurate aswell.

What about the lighter 32grain .204 Hornady?

If my understanding of twist is correct 1/12 would work well on the 32 grain
http://www.hornady.com/store/204-Ruger/

tomcat220t

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

What about the lighter 32grain .204 Hornady?

If my understanding of twist is correct 1/12 would work well on the 32 grain
http://www.hornady.com/store/searchammo.php?main_cat=249&mode=search&categoryid[]=256&categoryid[]=275&categoryid[]=&x=33&y=13

Yea ,the 32gr works really well in 1-12 twist .A little more flatter than the 39gr federal and id say easier got ,too;).The 32 gr works very well out to 300 yards on foxes and rabbits but after that with some wind they loose out the 39gr ,hands down.

pat58

tomcat220t wrote: »

The

hornady

40gr is not as good in the wind down range as the federal 39gr but if your rifle could

stableize

them they would be very accurate aswell.

Is it the bullet

weight

or is it the design that makes the 39gr superior over the 40gr

tomcat220t

pat58 wrote: »

Is it the bullet

weight

or is it the design that makes the 39gr superior over the 40gr

The 39gr federal has a better B/C than the 40gr hornady so for my money they are a superior round .One a calm day i have had 1" groups at 450 yards with the factory 39gr federal so not just better in the wind than the hornady but very accurate,too.

pat58

tomcat220t wrote: »

The 39gr federal has a better B/C than the 40gr hornady so for my money they are a superior round .One a calm day i have had 1" groups at 450 yards with the factory 39gr federal so not just better in the wind than the hornady but very accurate,too.

450 yards:eek: good shooting , what rifle and scope are you using? sounds an amazing distance for such a light little round .How calm a day was it???

tomcat220t

pat58 wrote: »

450 yards:eek: good shooting , what rifle and scope are you using? sounds an amazing distance for such a light little round .How calm a day was it???

Its a custom rifle built by John Greene in Waterford.The group was shot on a frosty(calm) day some months ago with fellow boards member as wittness .

pat58

tomcat220t wrote: »

Its a custom rifle built by John Greene in Waterford.The group was shot on a frosty(calm) day some months ago with fellow boards member as wittness .

Amazing shooting, A round i dont know much about , But i may look into it, I have had similar size rounds and never found them close as accurate as that.

tomcat220t

pat58 wrote: »

Amazing shooting, A round i dont know much about , But i may look into it, I have had similar size rounds and never found them close as accurate as that.

Let me guess a .223?

pat58

tomcat220t wrote: »

Let me guess a .223?

It was meaning ,past tence,When i used the lighter rounds i found the wind really effected it:mad: , With the heavier rounds i found they dropped like a stone, After 150 yards i had to know the exact range ,Or i was guaranteed a miss:mad: learned my lesson a went and bought the .270:Dnow that is like a laser.Massive advantage to point and pull out to good ranges.:cool:

tomcat220t

pat58 wrote: »

It was meaning ,past tence,When i used the lighter rounds i found the wind really effected it:mad: , With the heavier rounds i found they dropped like a stone, After 150 yards i had to know the exact range ,Or i was guaranteed a miss:mad: learned my lesson a went and bought the .270:Dnow that is like a laser.Massive advantage to point and pull out to good ranges.:cool:

They are not great in the wind unless you ues 60gr + ammo .Then they end up not so flat a shooter .Still in the right hand they work ok .You hardly use the .270 on rabbits ?

johngalway

I hate this multi quoting craic, but here goes anyway...

tomcat220t wrote: »

I have seen this myself .If your used the the drop of the .223 then take out the .204 ,there more likely to be going over your prays back at a bit of distance.

From what I've read so far I think the above could well be a factor. You could be compensating for a .223 drop, while using a .204.

remington 700 wrote: »

the only thing is one day i found my on light face down on the seat of the car there are no burn marks on it but there was a smell would this affect it

Check the reflector in your lamp, if it's brownish or coloured in any way then it's been damaged. If it's nice and shiny it's fine, IMO.

Is there smell there now when ever you use the lamp, or was it just there that time?

You need to be just as careful with a lamp in a vehicle as with a gun outside it. Only for he was in a hurry and didn't accept an invite in for tea, my mate would be minus one van. His lamp had turned on accidentally in the back and started to burn his padded shirt. Always unplug/disconnect not only when unattended but when not in use.

remington 700 wrote: »

would this affect the efficiency of the light
im using hornady 40gr
and its doing a inch group

See above re lamp.

I have also long heard that the 39 grain bullet is best in the .204. I don't know the reason behind it though.

An inch group I would not be totally happy or confident with it. It's good enough, but no more than that (personally speaking, I'm not criticizing anyone).

How far away are the foxes that you're missing on average? Are you using a range finder?

pat58

I do use the .270 on rabbits, The biggest shock when i changed from the .223 to .270 there was very little differance between the price of the premium .223 ammo and the .270:mad:I know the .223 is not a bad round BUT and its a big but ,its not a great round, So what i have learned is why struggle with a round that is jack of all trades but master of none;) just my 2cents

remington 700

what scope what kind of magnification

pat58

Who are you addressing that to bud?

remington 700

sorry tomcat220t. cant make no hand of this boards. what do you think of the .204 federal 39gr

tomcat220t

remington 700 wrote: »

what scope what kind of magnification

I was using a leupold 6.5-20x40 EFR with a fine duplex .Got a smith+bender PM11 5-25X56 on now but the clicks are 10mm so totally different to the leupold .As for the 39gr federal it really accurate and good out to 600 yards .I know lots of lads might think a light 39gr round wouldnt have a hope at that range but they would be sadly mistaken .Very efficient round for its size

remington 700

does anybody know if there going putting serial no. on moderator/silencer/suppressors. and making them like a gun license so you have to show a license before the dealer will give you one

pat58

So far no plans for that.

remington 700

pat58 wrote: »

So far no plans for that.

i heard that from a dealer here.

pat58

The way shooting laws are gone untill i see it i dont believe it. Dont think they know what they want. One law for for jim , jack, and joe and another for you:(

declan1980

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I shot 4 rabbits yesterday from the same spot in the space of ~ 45 mins with a .223 moderated

what bullets did you use for the rabbits?
and what kind of damage did it do?

Tackleberrywho

declan1980 wrote: »

what bullets did you use for the rabbits?
and what kind of damage did it do?

55grain, and they did there job!

pat58

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

55grain, and they did there job!

How do they work say 3 o clock wind at 10 mph at 200 yards standard volocity?

Tackleberrywho

pat58 wrote: »

How do they work say 3 o clock wind at 10 mph at 200 yards standard volocity?

3 o'clock wind = Wind coming from right to left?
Standard velocity? I'm not sure what you mean on that one either?
well I generally wait for the wind gust to stop before I squeeze, Very rarely wind is constant but it blows ~ 1" - 1" 1/2 inches with reasonable wind.

As I said, i wait for the wind to ease between shots if possible, eg the rabbit does not know I am there and I have all the time in the world, I get myself good and low to stop me from blowing with the wind, I do believe the wind blowing the user can have the same affect on the shot.

My scope has a load of crosshairs for different conditions and externally adjustable turrets so i can either dial her in and aim bang on or use the next cross hair on the right. thats why I love NF scopes. Or if I am not bothered picking him up I aim central body mass and let the bullet hit him where it hits him.

pat58

Cool can i import some of them non moving rabbits,I was using 75gr and i had more movement than that,I guess thats just that .Buy the way 3 o clock means full value left to right or right to left ;)Tought you have known that lad.

Dvs

remington 700 wrote: »

i just changed from a .223 to a .204 and can make no hand of it by night by day i can hit whatever is put in front of me but cant hit foxes by night. is it just i have to get used of the gun or wha

Hello Remington 700,
you say that you can hit whatever is put in front of you during the daytime,
Is this at your zero range of XXX yards?, or at any range from 25 out to 100 and 100 out to 250?

Do you have a ballistic chart for you rifle?
If not how are your adjusting for shots at different ranges?
are you holding over or dialing in with your scope?

You might try setting up a large target with a small aim point, where you zero your rifle and try shooting it at night using the lamp a different distances, paper does not lie.


Dvs.