The HSE and social workers.

Flimbos

The HSE have been trying to employ 270 extra social workers, but maybe there is a reason why they cannot fill these posts. My other half worked as a child protection social worker, and had an unbearable caseload to deal with constantly. There simply weren't enough hours in the day to deal with each case. Late evening emergencies were commonplace. This was normal for all front line social workers, while the same health centre where she worked was top heavy with admin and middle management, some doing very little actual work. In the end she left the job, close to burn out, and is now considering a change of career.


Perhaps if the HSE looked at the staff structure of a typical child protection health centre, things might improve. Much more support is needed for front line staff. For example, social workers have to spend a lot of their time supervising access visits between clients and their parents. Something like this could be delegated.



A letter in today's Independent from a similarily stressed out worker is worth a read.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/hse-carers-are-simply-doing-their-best-2186599.html

irishh_bob

Flimbos wrote: »

The HSE have been trying to employ 270 extra social workers, but maybe there is a reason why they cannot fill these posts. My other half worked as a child protection social worker, and had an unbearable caseload to deal with constantly. There simply weren't enough hours in the day to deal with each case. Late evening emergencies were commonplace. This was normal for all front line social workers, while the same health centre where she worked was top heavy with admin and middle management, some doing very little actual work. In the end she left the job, close to burn out, and is now considering a change of career.


Perhaps if the HSE looked at the staff structure of a typical child protection health centre, things might improve. Much more support is needed for front line staff. For example, social workers have to spend a lot of their time supervising access visits between clients and their parents. Something like this could be delegated.



A letter in today's Independent from a similarily stressed out worker is worth a read.


http://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/hse-carers-are-simply-doing-their-best-2186599.html

social workers are in the main , proffesional hand wringers , wooly liberal do- gooders who make all the right noises but have no real power and therefore no effect on change

opinion guy

irishh_bob wrote: »

social workers are in the main , proffesional hand wringers , wooly liberal do- gooders who make all the right noises but have no real power and therefore no effect on change

Thats just incredily ignorant. Social workers are an integral part of the health service and do ALOT for patients both in and out of hospital. Go educate yourself before makign such statements please. OH and especially before voting. Its ignorance like this that has allowd harney stay in office

moonpurple

irish bob: god preserve you from learning how the word of a social worker, to help mammy, can change your life forever baby

irishh_bob

opinion guy wrote: »

Thats just incredily ignorant. Social workers are an integral part of the health service and do ALOT for patients both in and out of hospital. Go educate yourself before makign such statements please. OH and especially before voting. Its ignorance like this that has allowd harney stay in office

as someone who has a close relative who regulary comes into contact with social workers , that has been my experience , i can only speak for myself

dan_d

I know a number of young social workers working for the HSE.
The problem is not the social workers, is the system they have to work in. As with everything in the HSE - huge administration, overburdened with managers, yet not enough of them on the ground in the office to cover all the hours they need to work. One is paid by cheque every 2 weeks, which he has to go and collect - they refuse to take his bank account details, or send him a paycheque- too much effort, or something. He picks it up from an office with 5 people working in it...with 3 computers...he rekons he knows what 2 of them do all day, and everytime he comes in, the other 3 are either sitting beside the 2 at the computers and looking over their shoulders, or standing around talking. Another has 4 managers/supervisors + managers above them....to manage the 5 social workers in the office who are covering most of North County Dublin.
Go figure.

donaghs

I'd say like most jobs there are good and bad people. But there is too much expected of them. A social worker can never be a replacement for a good loving family. And it cant be assumed that a social worker can undo the harm created by an abusive childhood.

Fratton Fred

irishh_bob wrote: »

social workers are in the main , proffesional hand wringers , wooly liberal do- gooders who make all the right noises but have no real power and therefore no effect on change

I worked with quite a few when I worked in the youth service and a lot of them i think are like you describe.

the majority though were very hard working, dedicated people who have to put up with not only a lot of general **** from within their own organisation, but can also manage some quite distressing cases.

irishh_bob

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I worked with quite a few when I worked in the youth service and a lot of them i think are like you describe.

the majority though were very hard working, dedicated people who have to put up with not only a lot of general **** from within their own organisation, but can also manage some quite distressing cases.

but they have no real power to effectivley deal with those distressing cases other than to offer meaningless platitudes and bland sympathy

rightwingdub

irishh_bob wrote: »

but they have no real power to effectivley deal with those distressing cases other than to offer meaningless platitudes and bland sympathy

Muy sister in law is a social wroker and she deals with people with disabilities, I do take your point that a lot of social workers are bleeding heart do gooders, not surprising as my sister in law votes for Labour;)

opinion guy

irishh_bob wrote: »

but they have no real power to effectivley deal with those distressing cases other than to offer meaningless platitudes and bland sympathy

So if its not their fault then why are you bad mouthing them on here ? Maybe you should support them in their work by lobbying the HSE/your local TD for change instead of bad mouthing people trying to do their best in a god-awful soul destroying system. don't ya think ?

irishh_bob

opinion guy wrote: »

So if its not their fault then why are you bad mouthing them on here ? Maybe you should support them in their work by lobbying the HSE/your local TD for change instead of bad mouthing people trying to do their best in a god-awful soul destroying system. don't ya think ?

if someone involves themselves in a crisis despite having no means of resolving or aiding the situation , then they are IMO motivated by piousness and little else , profesional hand wringers and deliberators are everywhere in our health service , especially when it comes to the area of mental health , i see it all the time in relation to a cousin of mine who needs to be in an institution but cannot for the simple reason that he hasnt killed anyone yet , i have no interest in conversing with politicians about a system where political correctness is all encompassing

Memnoch

irishh_bob wrote: »

if someone involves themselves in a crisis despite having no means of resolving or aiding the situation , then they are IMO motivated by piousness and little else , profesional hand wringers and deliberators are everywhere in our health service

What a joke. I've worked in the health service, and worked alongside social workers. Most of them work very hard in a difficult job trying to do their best with limited resources to help people genuinely in need.

Your attacks are not only baseless and unfounded but crude and cheap. At least they are making an effort to contribute to society and help others which is a damn sight harder than pissing on them on an internet forum from some sort of position of detached superiority with little effort or regard for the realities or difficulties of the job.

You claim they are motivated by piousness. And what motivates you to launch this pointless diatribe? Are you part of the solution somehow? I'd rather be a liberal do gooder, than someone who lambasts anyone trying to make a difference simply because they are too selfish and need an excuse to justify their own unwillingness to lift a finger, usually, because they have never had to face the difficulties that so many do, so that they can continue to look at themselves in a mirror and not realise what an utter tit they are.

Memnoch

irishh_bob wrote: »

i see it all the time in relation to a cousin of mine who needs to be in an institution but cannot for the simple reason that he hasnt killed anyone yet , i have no interest in conversing with politicians about a system where political correctness is all encompassing

Okay you added this bit in your edit after I'd already written my reply to your opening post... so now I see where your misplaced anger is coming from.

The irony of this is astounding. You fail to see that the problem is a simple lack of resources and not political correctness, and for this you blame the social workers? Why? Because it's easier?

The greater irony is that you lambast the very attitude, i.e. of so called "liberal do-gooders," who would be the ones to fight and argue for the resources that might actually help your cousin get the care they need. But hey, don't let that stop your ignorant fury in bolstering your backward prejudices.

FlutterinBantam

irishh_bob wrote: »

as someone who has a close relative who regulary comes into contact with social workers , that has been my experience , i can only speak for myself

And I'll agree with you Bob.

Just making jobs for themselves , papering over cracks, and making little or no contribution to alleviating the generic problem.

Not being personal ,but they are experts at 'fluttering paperwork ' around and while the clients they deal with are usually poorly socially skilled, they rarely make any impact but rather compound the inherent problems.


Paper pushers we don't need.

opinion guy

irishh_bob wrote: »

if someone involves themselves in a crisis despite having no means of resolving or aiding the situation , then they are IMO motivated by piousness and little else , profesional hand wringers and deliberators are everywhere in our health service , especially when it comes to the area of mental health , i see it all the time in relation to a cousin of mine who needs to be in an institution but cannot for the simple reason that he hasnt killed anyone yet , i have no interest in conversing with politicians about a system where political correctness is all encompassing

This speaks volumes. You may not have any interest in it, but if you want something done/ **** to change - this is the way. Pressure your local TD. Your attitude is extremely hypocritical. Your cousin would probably be worse off without whatever help he/she is getting.

So talk is cheap - either write some letters to some people about your cousin or just put up with it. Bitching about people who do what they can to help him/her on an internet forum is just plain lazy

irishh_bob

Memnoch wrote: »

Okay you added this bit in your edit after I'd already written my reply to your opening post... so now I see where your misplaced anger is coming from.

The irony of this is astounding. You fail to see that the problem is a simple lack of resources and not political correctness, and for this you blame the social workers? Why? Because it's easier?

The greater irony is that you lambast the very attitude, i.e. of so called "liberal do-gooders," who would be the ones to fight and argue for the resources that might actually help your cousin get the care they need. But hey, don't let that stop your ignorant fury in bolstering your backward prejudices.

in the case of my cousin , all the social workers have to do is recomend that he be committed , this is what his immediete family want and what would be best for the general public yet the culture of political correctness which dominates every area to do with mental health prevents this from happening , that and the fact that social workers rarely come down on one side or another , we hear endless storys of awfull abuse involving neglected children not being taken away from thier parents yet all the social workers did was sit on the fence and deliberate

Memnoch

irishh_bob wrote: »

in the case of my cousin , all the social workers have to do is recomend that he be committed , this is what his immediete family want and what would be best for the general public yet the culture of political correctness which dominates every area to do with mental health prevents this from happening , that and the fact that social workers rarely come down on one side or another , we hear endless storys of awfull abuse involving neglected children not being taken away from thier parents yet all the social workers did was sit on the fence and deliberate

Sorry to hear about your cousin. Fortunately or unfortunately, committing someone is much harder than it used to be since the change in the mental health act. This is to protect the rights of the individual being committed. It is probably more a fear of litigation that is holding back the social workers (or as I said before, a lack of resources) than political correctness. The litigant society we live in is not as you would put it, a result of "liberal do-gooderness," rather a result of a culture of blame and greed.

Also committing someone is a complex decision, and without knowing the particulars of the case, I can tell you that if mental health professionals (i.e. the attending psychiatrist - I presume your cousin has seen one) felt that your cousin was a danger to themselves or others then I doubt any social worker would stand in the way of that.

Naturally, families have most contact with social workers or community nurses in these kinds of situations which make them convenient lightening rods for venting frustration. You keep saying political correctness is the problem, I wonder if you would illustrate why you feel this.

opinion guy

irishh_bob wrote: »

in the case of my cousin , all the social workers have to do is recomend that he be committed , this is what his immediete family want and what would be best for the general public yet the culture of political correctness which dominates every area to do with mental health prevents this from happening , that and the fact that social workers rarely come down on one side or another , we hear endless storys of awfull abuse involving neglected children not being taken away from thier parents yet all the social workers did was sit on the fence and deliberate

Social workers don't have the power to commit someone. It takes 2 psychiatrists to commit someone. Your social workers may feel it should be the case, but you are way out of line blaming them for all your cousins woes.

irishh_bob

Memnoch wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your cousin. Fortunately or unfortunately, committing someone is much harder than it used to be since the change in the mental health act. This is to protect the rights of the individual being committed. It is probably more a fear of litigation that is holding back the social workers (or as I said before, a lack of resources) than political correctness. The litigant society we live in is not as you would put it, a result of "liberal do-gooderness," rather a result of a culture of blame and greed.

Also committing someone is a complex decision, and without knowing the particulars of the case, I can tell you that if mental health professionals (i.e. the attending psychiatrist - I presume your cousin has seen one) felt that your cousin was a danger to themselves or others then I doubt any social worker would stand in the way of that.

Naturally, families have most contact with social workers or community nurses in these kinds of situations which make them convenient lightening rods for venting frustration. You keep saying political correctness is the problem, I wonder if you would illustrate why you feel this.

the prevailing view among mental health proffesionals ( when it comes to those who are not the full schilling ) is that the rights of the patient supercede all other considerations , this includes the wellbeing of the patients immediete family or the broader community , anytime you hear reports on tv about psychiatric patients in mental hospitals , the report centres around how awfull it is that theese people are locked up and not living among the community , ive never once heard it mentioned that some people ( if not the majority of people ) dont want certain individuals to be free , thier are familys up and down the country suffering terribley due to the fact that they cant get thier son or daughter committed yet the media would have us believe that the familys of mental cases only ever want thier loved ones to be free , time was , people were put in the big hourse for trivial reasons but the pendelum has now completley swung the other way , many innocent people have died as a result of the pollitically correct wooly liberal policy that prevails regarding the mentally unwell , my mother is from the south west , thier was a guy from her surrounding area called brendan o donnell who killed a young mom , her infant child and a priest some years ago , this nutcase was notorious in his area for years before this attrocity occured yet no pre-emptive action could not be taken , o donnells rights trumped every other consideration , thier was another case a few summers ago where a young man from the midlands was up in dublin for his cousins stag part , upon returing back to his cousins appartment one evening , he was attacked by a knife wielding maniac and stabbed 72 times , when arrested , the psycho told gardai that he had just killed the devil , thier are numerous other storys involving people who should not have been walking around , unfortunatley , the present policy by the mental health services prevents pre - emptive action and nothing is done untill the problem enters the realm of criminality and then its too late , therefore the only people who have any real effect are the police , social workers and other do - gooders provide nothing but lip service

irishh_bob

opinion guy wrote: »

Social workers don't have the power to commit someone. It takes 2 psychiatrists to commit someone. Your social workers may feel it should be the case, but you are way out of line blaming them for all your cousins woes.

i didnt blame them but when you are unable to provide anything but bland sympathy , you should get out of the way , the country cant afford so many proffesional hand wringers

missus cat

why dont ivestigate themselves with all those childrendying in their care.

opinion guy

missus cat wrote: »

why dont ivestigate themselves with all those childrendying in their care.

Big headline in the paper today saying the HSE won't provide the data.

Eddie Yu

What is the difference between a social worker and a rotweiler? Answer: at least you get your child back from a rotweiler.