People from Northern Ireland are not British!

LordSutch

According to Pat Kenny, 'all people from Northern Ireland are not British' Why? because although they live in the UK, and hold British Passports, they do not live on the island of Britain > > Click on 58 mins, and listen for just one minute Link; http://www.rte.ie/radio1/player_av.html?0,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-r1-todaywithpatkenny.smil

The above is news to me :rolleyes: and surely it would cause complications re 'Irish' people born in Britain? ergo they cannot be 'Irish' if born on the neighbouring island.

Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this New Political Fact, (according to Pat Kenny)!

Banned Account

Maybe they're just there on holiday.

enda1

While I can't listen to the interview, based on what you've written it just comes down to the interpretation of the word British.

If you mean British as short-hand for The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, then Northern Ireland people are British.

If you mean British as shorthand for Great Britain as a geographical denomination, then they are not British.

For example Team GB is the term used by the UKoGB&NI Olympic team to include NI because it is used as a kind of short hand. The countries official name is a bit long winded no?

anymore

Camelot wrote: »

According to Pat Kenny, 'all people from Northern Ireland are not British' Why? because although they live in the UK, and hold British Passports, they do not live on the island of Britain > > Click on 58 mins, and listen for just one minute Link; http://www.rte.ie/radio1/player_av.html?0,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-r1-todaywithpatkenny.smil

The above is news to me :rolleyes: and surely it would cause complications re 'Irish' people born in Britain? ergo they cannot be 'Irish' if born on the neighbouring island.

Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this New Political Fact, (according to Pat Kenny)!

Well pat kenny does tend to have strange ideas about land !

LordSutch

You really need to listen to Minute 58 . . . .

sirromo

British people are people from Britain. Irish people are people from Ireland.

Ulster protestants are Irish people of British-descent.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

karma_

Camelot wrote: »

You really need to listen to Minute 58 . . . .

You asked for peoples opinions, opinions were then posted and all you can again is listen to minute 58?

I'm from Northern Ireland and I'm not British.

southsiderosie

sirromo wrote: »

British people are people from Britain. Irish people are people from Ireland.

Ulster protestants are Irish people of British-descent.

Or Scots descent? The whole thing is bloody complicated...

LordSutch

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

He could indeed, but if you Click on 58 mins . . .

Anyway, where does this leave people who claim to be 'Irish' but were born in Britain, or further afield? are they not Irish due to place of Birth?

karma_

Camelot wrote: »

He could indeed, but if you Click on 58 mins . . .

Anyway, where does this leave people who claim to be 'Irish' but were born in Britain, or further afield? are they not Irish due to place of Birth?

They may have Irish heritage but if your born in England your English, Wales your Welsh, Scotland your Scottish, Botswana your... well I'm not sure but you get the picture.

Given that I'm not sure what to make of your apparent shock that people from Northern Ireland are Irish.

LordSutch

karma_ wrote: »

You asked for peoples opinions, opinions were then posted and all you can again is listen to minute 58?

I'm from Northern Ireland and I'm not British.

You completly missed the irony of Pat's comments (followed by the news segment immediately after) anything to add to your opinion karma?

You of all people should know that one million up North consider themselves 'British' even if you and Pat Kenny don't see it that way.

marco_polo

southsiderosie wrote: »

Or Scots descent? The whole thing is bloody complicated...

And of course the scots were originally Irish ...

sceptre

enda1 wrote: »

While I can't listen to the interview, based on what you've written it just comes down to the interpretation of the word British.

If you mean British as short-hand for The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, then Northern Ireland people are British.

If you mean British as shorthand for Great Britain as a geographical denomination, then they are not British.

For example Team GB is the term used by the UKoGB&NI Olympic team to include NI because it is used as a kind of short hand. The countries official name is a bit long winded no?

In a nutshell, what enda said above.

"United Kingdomish" would be a bit long-winded and in the same way that UK people often call this country "Éire" (or as they frequently say "eeera"), which is a bit annoying for not being technically "correct" in one way or another, people in Northern Ireland can call themselves whatever they want for all I care as it's a self-designation based on what they themselves call themselves. Ask Pat Kenny whether he thinks people from Tibet are Chinese and he might have a view on that too. Or whether Leitrim actually exists.

Pat Kenny is a radio personality. He doesn't work for the department of foreign affairs. His opinion is right up there as "fact" with Danny Kelly announcing on BBC WM the other day that QE2 had passed away (the queen, not the boat). Hence, treat it with the applause or derision it deserves based on his opinion as a radio presenter. It's about as significant in a constitutional view or change as Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand leaving a message on Andrew Sachs' phone.

Meh.

Banned Account

Camelot wrote: »

are they not Irish due to place of Birth

If one is born in a banana box, is one a banana?

gizmo555

Pat Kenny is absolutely right. In the Good Friday agreement the UK and Irish governments affirmed that they:

recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

http://www.nio.gov.uk/agreement.pdf

Exile 1798

Camelot wrote: »

According to Pat Kenny, 'all people from Northern Ireland are not British' Why? because although they live in the UK, and hold British Passports, they do not live on the island of Britain > > Click on 58 mins, and listen for just one minute Link; http://www.rte.ie/radio1/player_av.html?0,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/quickaxs/209-r1-todaywithpatkenny.smil

The above is news to me :rolleyes: and surely it would cause complications re 'Irish' people born in Britain? ergo they cannot be 'Irish' if born on the neighbouring island.

Just wondering what peoples opinions are on this New Political Fact, (according to Pat Kenny)!

I'm not going to listen to the interview but on the simple face of it is a correct statement: "all people from Northern Ireland are not British"

So there doesn't seem to be any issue there.

What's interesting is that you have a history of making petty threads on this subject.

Camelot wrote: »

How can you have a Forum called "NI & UK Colleges"

May I suggest the title be changed to "NI & GB Colleges" or just simply "UK Colleges" ...............

NI + GB = UK

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57361478#post57361478

Camelot wrote: »

It has come to my attention recently that as far as Irish people are concerned there appears to be several understandings of what the term 'UK' means - and I am curious to know why there is such confusion here as to what constitutes the make-up of the UK! - Examples: Vodafone ireland says;- "Roaming charges in Northern Ireland or the UK" but what does that mean? has the North left the UK secretly? or what about sailing to the UK with Irish Ferries! shouldnt that be sailing to Britain with Irish ferries........... then you have people saying things like "I am going to the UK for the weekend! but what does that mean? Scotland? Cornwall? Belfast? Essex? I mean to say why cant Irish people just say for example "I am off to Manchester for the weekend"; Irish Radio & TV can be just as bad also: Remember the Bunsfield Oil depot Explosions a couple of months ago in North London (near Luton), well it was reported on several Irish radio Stations at the time that "There have been large explosions heard in the UK", which could basically mean anywhere!

Can anybody shed any light on why many Irish people dont understand what the UK is? (all explanations welcome).

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054905063

Camelot wrote: »

Is Northern Ireland part of the UK anymore in the eyes of the local Irish media/ local advertising/ Local Government?

I ask this because; nearly every day on Irish Radio, on Irish TV, in the Dail, or on 'Irish websites' there is reference to "the UK & Northern Ireland" or references to . . .
"Northern Ireland or the UK", or maybe you would like to Sail to the UK, etc, etc.

(Vodafone.ie/ 02.ie/ Meteor.ie are the main culprits) & so is Dermot Ahearn.

And this confuses me, as I thought that one of the Net results of the Good Friday agreement was that the the current status of the North was agreed upon by all and sundry that; Northern Ireland was an integral part of the United Kingdom as long as the majority of people living there wanted ~ but maybe Not?

Is it not the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland anymore? or is it now the United Kingdom of the UK & Northern Ireland?

I know what the story really is myself, but if I were a foreigner or a tourist or a newcomer to these shores, I might be forgiven for thinking that Northern Ireland was definately NOT part of the UK (specially if I were to listen to Irish sourced media/ advertising).

Any ideas posters as to whats going on with this new Irish the definition of the term "UK" or have I missed something in the last few years?

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054994390

You are either abnormally fixated on this minor naming issue or are involved in low level trolling.

karma_

There's also a funny phenomenon with people from NI. As soon as they leave to go abroad almost 100% of them identify themselves as Irish. I had opportunity to live in the US with a few plane loads of Ulster folk under one of the peace incentive visa programs, and to a man/woman everyone when asked was Irish.

mike65

Who, apart from the most anal buttoned-down mind really gives a feck? :mad:

loldog

Not this again....:rolleyes:

.

LordSutch

Exile 1798 wrote: »

I'm not going to listen to the interview but on the simple face of it is a correct statement: "all people from Northern Ireland are not British"

So there doesn't seem to be any issue there.

You are either abnormally fixated on this minor naming issue or are involved in low level trolling.

Well yes I do do have strong opinions on the subject, and I believe that Northern Ireland is part of the UK, and I also believe that approx one million people claim to be British, I also heard Pat Kenny on the radio this morning stating otherwise ..........

It was certainly a shock to me hearing Pat Kenny's 'facts' this morning.

Gaelic32

Camelot wrote: »

one million up North consider themselves 'British' even if you and Pat Kenny don't see it that way.

Think u will find that this is false and grossely exagerated spurious headcount. The majority of six county residents recognise themselves as irish and rightly so.

LordSutch

Gaelic32 wrote: »

Think u will find that this is false and grossely exagerated spurious headcount. The majority of six county residents recognise themselves as irish and rightly so.

Leaving the 'One Million' British people aside, Pat's claim about not being British even if you hold a British passport does seem a little OTT in my opinion.

OhNoYouDidn't

Camelot wrote: »

Leaving the 'One Million' British people aside, Pat's claim about not being British even if you hold a British passport does seem a little OTT in my opinion.

But if one were to flip your pedantry back to you, there is no such thing as a British passport. There is a country called the United Kingdom which issues passports.

So technically Pat Kenny is 100% right. Other than people from the island of Britain, there are no British people in the 6 counties.

If, as I saw, you are bothered being anal, be properly anal. Or don't be half-arsed etc.

Jaysoose

Since when does anything pat kenny say matter?

Gaelic32

To get into discussion on something Pat Kenny did or didnt say is a new low for this forum - If you have an issue with him, join the feckin queue! On the issue of peoples nationality I dont think its up to you camelot to be quoting incorrect and unprovable statistics to serve your own agenda - Its offensive to irish people who see no difference in our people no matter in which county they reside on our emerald isle.

enda1

Camelot wrote: »

Leaving the 'One Million' British people aside, Pat's claim about not being British even if you hold a British passport does seem a little OTT in my opinion.

By Irish do you mean of the country of the the island?

By British do you mean of the country (UK) or of the island (GB)?

Because without setting these two definitions in stone (which they are not) then the argument is just circular.

People from NI are Irish (of the island), Irish of the country if they choose to be and British (of the country) if they choose to be. Facts > Fiction.

Anonymous1987

enda1 wrote: »

While I can't listen to the interview, based on what you've written it just comes down to the interpretation of the word British.

If you mean British as short-hand for The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, then Northern Ireland people are British.

If you mean British as shorthand for Great Britain as a geographical denomination, then they are not British.

For example Team GB is the term used by the UKoGB&NI Olympic team to include NI because it is used as a kind of short hand. The countries official name is a bit long winded no?

People in Northern Ireland could be described as both Irish and British or just Irish. The Union Jack, a symbol of Britain actually has an Irish symbol in it, St Patrick's Cross (The red X in the flag) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag#Since_1801 so it would not seem too extraordinary that one could be both Irish and British. Given that Great Britain and Ireland are different and separate geographical regions it would be incorrect to identify Britain as including Ireland however politically there is more ambiguity with generally unionism in the north identifying with being both British and Irish whereas republicans defining themselves as strictly Irish. So really its a matter of personal and political opinion with neither being incorrect or correct.

karma_

Camelot wrote: »

Leaving the 'One Million' British people aside, Pat's claim about not being British even if you hold a British passport does seem a little OTT in my opinion.

You are just plain wrong on this.

Demonym for people from Northern Ireland is - Irish / Northern Irish

I'm guessing though that any quantity of evidence contrary to your opinion will just be completely ignored in fairness.

murrayp4

Folks, it's always referred to officially as Great Britain & Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is not part of Britain- it's part of the United Kingdom.

Gaelic32

Some people on here obviously think the President of Ireland is British....Mmmmhhhh.?????

Carlos_Ray

Most people believe Northern Ireland is part of Britain. Maybe he was just trying to highlight the fact thats its not. Its part of the UK. Hence the term, " UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."


That said, I don't think this effects nationality. Approx 55% are proud British citizens, the remainder are proud Irish citizens. Under the GF agreement, this is a legally recognised right.

OhNoYouDidn't

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Most people believe Northern Ireland is part of Britain. Maybe he was just trying to highlight the fact thats its not. Its part of the UK. Hence the term, " UK of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."


That said, I don't think this effects nationality. Approx 55% are proud British citizens, the remainder are proud Irish citizens. Under the GF agreement, this is a legally recognised right.

No, they are proud UK citizens. That is the point of the entire thread.

southsiderosie

There is a running conversation about this over in AH right now, but nationality and state membership are two different issues. No less than Ian Paisley has said “I would never repudiate the fact that I am an Irishman”. But he would prefer to be an Irishman governed by the UK and not the Republic.

karma_

I listened to what he said and he is correct.

Lets take for example Andy Murray, who is of course Scottish, he is also British. Rory McIlroy may be able to call himself British because he can have a British passport but his nationality is Irish / Northern Irish.

Anonymous1987

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

No, they are proud UK citizens. That is the point of the entire thread.

Actually people born in the UK are legally defined as British citizens. Like I said, its a blurry area and people in Northern Ireland are entitled to define themselves as Irish, British or Irish and British.

sceptre

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

No, they are proud UK citizens. That is the point of the entire thread.

What Anonymous1987 said. Here's the background for his correct statement:

The British Nationality Act 1981 redefined the previous category of "Citizenship of the United Kingdom and Colonies" into three main categories: "British citizen", "British Dependent Territories citizen" and "British Overseas citizen" (as well as British subjects, British protected persons and British overseas nationals, all of which are much smaller categories - the first takes account of people including Irish people with a UK passport if they got it prior to 1949 and British India for example). The latter three take account of small exceptions only, the main ones are the first three.

So they've certainly legally been called "British citizens" rather then "UK citizens" since the passage of the 1981 Act (which became law in 1983) and before that in a justifiably informal sense at the very least. That's the current legal position, that they are "British citizens" rather than "citizens of the UK" but as I said, it's essentially a self-identifying mechanism in any case.

djpbarry

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Approx 55% are proud British citizens, the remainder are proud Irish citizens.

Approximately 100% of people from outside Northern Ireland don't really give a toss.

Rebelheart

Camelot wrote: »

According to Pat Kenny, 'all people from Northern Ireland are not British'

And you are contending that Seán Murphy from Crossmaglen, to take one of 700,000 native Irish nationalists living under British occupation in the northeast of Ireland, is British?

Pat Kenny, unlike you, is clearly much more conscious of the reality.


PS: The key word in Kenny's comment was 'all'; how unsurprising that your headline missed this, totally. Why do you even bother?

danman

All the Protestant people that I know from NI consider themselves as Northern Irish.

It is Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as has been mentioned before.

Another wee point, maybe someone can clarify, are British people "Subjects" rather than Citizens.
They live in a monarchy rather than a republic.
I don't know where this leaves the Northern Irish, subjects or citizens. Probably subjects of the Crown or Irish citizens, whichever pleases them.

Rebelheart

enda1 wrote: »

If you mean British as short-hand for The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, then Northern Ireland people are British.

Yeah, of course "Northern Ireland people" are British. The fact that 43% of the population in the Six Counties are not 'Northern Ireland people' but rather 'Irish people' makes your point irrelevant.

Fratton Fred

karma_ wrote: »

You are just plain wrong on this.

Demonym for people from Northern Ireland is - Irish / Northern Irish

I'm guessing though that any quantity of evidence contrary to your opinion will just be completely ignored in fairness.

The name for people from England is...English, but hey, they are British too.

Not that it matters, we are all British as we are all from the British Isles, but some of us are Great, some are not!

Fratton Fred

danman wrote: »

All the Protestant people that I know from NI consider themselves as Northern Irish.

It is Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as has been mentioned before.

Another wee point, maybe someone can clarify, are British people "Subjects" rather than Citizens.
They live in a monarchy rather than a republic.
I don't know where this leaves the Northern Irish, subjects or citizens. Probably subjects of the Crown or Irish citizens, whichever pleases them.

My passport clearly states British Citizen, the term subject was dropped decades ago.

enda1

Rebelheart wrote: »

Yeah, of course "Northern Ireland people" are British. The fact that 43% of the population in the Six Counties are not 'Northern Ireland people' but rather 'Irish people' makes your point irrelevant.

¿Que?

karma_

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The name for people from England is...English, but hey, they are British too.

Not that it matters, we are all British as we are all from the British Isles, but some of us are Great, some are not!

I've often wondered about why they chose the prefix 'Great', I would have thought 'Moderately Good' or 'Just OK' would have been more appropriate.

getz

my wife was born in gibraltar, is she british ?well you wouldent dare tell her she isent

old hippy

You are who you are, wherever you are. I'm an Irishman born and bred. However, my ancestors came from Scotland & mother is from the US. People will always argue about identity, down to what side of the road you live in

One of the benefits of living in a multicultural London is that here, you really can be who you want to be. I'm not for a moment saying London is better than anywhere else (it isn't!) but I finally felt I could breathe over here. But that's just my experience, of course. I still rankle when I hear "Londonderry" instead of "Derry"...

I do miss Dublin, of course. My heart will always be there.

LordSutch

karma_ wrote: »

I've often wondered about why they chose the prefix 'Great', I would have thought 'Moderately Good' or 'Just OK' would have been more appropriate.

'Great' refers to being greater than .............
And in the case of Great Britain, being (larger than) Brittany.

enda1

karma_ wrote: »

I've often wondered about why they chose the prefix 'Great', I would have thought 'Moderately Good' or 'Just OK' would have been more appropriate.

Great = Large.

Like Great Blasket Island is largest of the Blasket Islands.

So Great Britain is the largest of the British Isles.

karma_

getz wrote: »

my wife was born in gibraltar, is she british ?well you wouldent dare tell her she isent

She is infact Gibraltarian.

karma_

enda1 wrote: »

Great = Large.

Like Great Blasket Island is largest of the Blasket Islands.

So Great Britain is the largest of the British Isles.

Thanks enda, ruined my joke there.