Getting good with all characters?

UberPrinny_Baal

This is a repost of something I threw up on SRK, so forgive the excesses of words I use to try and avoid getting flamed as a n00b (since my account is like a week old).

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I'm a returning SF2 player, who never played the Alphas or SFIIIs or even much vanilla IV. I'm maining Deejay because I mostly played him in HD Remix, and because I enjoy gettin' lost in da beat.

A lot of the time playing online though, whether I win or lose, rather than wanting to play again and see if I can improve on my previous game's performance; I find myself wanting to play AS my opponents character because they did something awesome I didn't know that character could do.

Back in the megadrive/snes days of SF2 and more recently in HDR, I'd regularly do "double random" select with equally skilled friends of mine. We all sucked, but we all sucked equally so the matches were even and varied, and it was a lot of fun.

I think maybe in SSFIV, the "hook" that will keep me coming back might not be being the best DeeJay I can be for tournaments, but being solidly mediocre with all 35 characters with an end goal of being able to hit "Random" in a ranked match, and being able to take down your average flowchart Ken; or to just have fun at casuals. The added plus in Super being that "random" doesn't show your opponent (or you) your character until the match begins, so they can't optimise by picking the appropriate Ultra.

I mean, Capcom put a lot of work into this game, and I spent a lot of time reading the developer blog posts about Super, after all that it seems weird just to reuse my old main from HDR and neglect the majority of the content. At best maybe I'll find someone I like better than Dee Jay, and at worst I'll eventually pick up that "C to shining C" achievement.

So from the more experienced fighters, I was wondering if there's a "best way" to go about doing this?

I know the challenge modes teach a lot of the basics, and the individual SRK character forums have a wealth of information, but there's a very wide gap between being a knowledgeable theory fighter, and pulling this stuff off in muscle memory.

I figure at the very least I need to know all special, super and ultra inputs, as well as any special properties/uses they might have (Like how Chun's ultra 1 can punish fireballs from full screen, and her Ultra 2 rules the skies), as well as notable normal attacks. One BnB I can pull off per character would probably be useful as well.

Also how much time is probably needed per character?
Should I choose random all the time, or should I have 1 dedicated character only for set periods of time?

Thanks for any advice and sorry about the teal deer.

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I know GorySnake and I could both do this in Smash Bros Melee, and I think its something fun to aim for in Super.

Ken B

My advice is use the one character that you love......and treat the other 34 characters as 'more people to beat up...'. Use the other characters for fun.
How's this thread being treated in SRK?

There's a lot of utter morons trollin' on that site.....

Sairus

I always aim to be at least able to use all characters to some level of useability in any fighter I play - ie I know all their moves and basically how to use them. The problem recently I've been having is after getting my ass handed to me by the Dublin guys, I wanted to get really good with a character.
Now that my Rose is actually pretty good, what I used to settle for with other characters is now unbearably awful. Now I often go into training with characters I never plan on regularly using, just so I know the strengths of all their normals and get some combos in place. Also, if a character has an obvious combo, like Ryu's FADC Ultra I'll always learn it.
I find that going through most of everyone's trials gives a fairly good idea of what you can do, even if you'd never use half the stuff from those trials in an actual match.

/rambling

Orim

Linky linky to the SRK thread. I imagine it's funny.

If you want to be able to beat the average XBL player then it should be possible by just learning a few good pokes/anti-airs and playing a good solid fundamental game. You won't beat everyone but I reckon you could get a decent win rate.

UberPrinny_Baal

There was always a link to SRK in first line of the post, you guys are just colourblind :P

No trolls yet, as I mentioned it was carefully worded to avoid that, and I have enough levels in Internet to pull it off.

Orim

Found it. My theme doesn't show links, it can cause problems.

That thread is very dull. Are you sure that's SRK?

UberPrinny_Baal

As I said, carefully crafted post :P

Ramza

Personally I am finding it hard to find a solid main in SFIV but I finally have

I'll speak from my exp of other games ;

I set to main/learn a character I learned. After playing so and so much of that game, I just knew from watching videos/fighting other people/matchup info, what other characters could do and what there styles are etc. Which is why generally I have my solid main but I can do solidly well with the rest of the cast too, its just all down to experience

Best way to learn a matchup is to main said character you are trying to learn the matchup for, for a while, maybe a month or two, that's what I did

GorySnake

This is basically what I did in SFIV before I found my main in Rufus/Sakura. I bounced from character to character all the time, thinking the next looks even more fun than the last, but in the end I just used this curiosity as a means of finding a consistent character.

Learn the basics of a character: footsies, general strategy, combos and a trick or 2 (FADC - Ultra/Mixups). Once you feel you have the general idea of how to use that character move on, I wouldn't recommend going random, you wont get enough experience with any character and will struggle to find that next main.

In SFIV I "learned" about 12 characters, it took me a long time to find Rufus/Sakura. For SSFIV, I decided on Cody back in November, though I have tried dabbling in Dudley and Ibuki but I want to really master Cody before moving on.

UberPrinny_Baal

I've hit C rank with Ryu (and already Dee Jay obviously), and feel like I have a decent enough handle with him. I've beaten plenty of much higher ranked players with him, especially in mirror matches.

For my next char I'm considering four reasonably different chars:

Guile: Because he's apparently like Dee Jay "if Dee Jay didn't suck", and I need to work on my patience/turtling
Seth: I always pick Seth when I come up against someone French, just to troll really. Would be nice if I actually WON more of those matches.
T-Hawk: To represent ST better, and because 360'ing people after a condor dive is fun. Hell 360-ing people is fun in general
Cody: He just plain looks like a lot of fun, and Gorysnake took me apart with him

ogiekeaney

well i muck about with 5-6 characters in super.its a case of whtether you want to be mediocre with alot or put all your time into one character.i find playing with a varied cast is more fun,probably at the expense of becoming more competitive though.

GorySnake

Guile: Pretty much said it yourself, a better Dee Jay.

Seth: Wouldn't recommend using him until you get really good at the game. High risk, low reward character really, poor damage unless you're using his resets which are hard to land midscreen.

T.Hawk: Basic grappler character, which can help with your footsies and spacing.

Cody: You already know my opinion on him!

roy nelson

if i had my way street fighter would be called shoto fighter 4 and only have shoto fighters plus guile.

IN MY OPINION shoto v shoto matches make for the most technical and enjoyable fights. much more combos, spacing and timing involved.

It would be a better game if they would remove the unorthodox characters like vega, blanka, el fuete who rely on their randomness and jumping around the screen rather than technical combos.

plus you would you be familiar with all characters.

UberPrinny_Baal

roy nelson wrote: »

if i had my way street fighter would be called shoto fighter 4 and only have shoto fighters plus guile.

IN MY OPINION shoto v shoto matches make for the most technical and enjoyable fights. much more combos, spacing and timing involved.

It would be a better game if they would remove the unorthodox characters like vega, blanka, el fuete who rely on their randomness and jumping around the screen rather than technical combos.

plus you would you be familiar with all characters.

*taps sarcasm detector*

Blasted printed text, I'm not getting a clear readout.

roy nelson

no sarcasm at all, what can i say im a maverick.

But i know if i had the choice to fight sagat or a bouncy ball blanka 100 times i would pick sagat.

UberPrinny_Baal

roy nelson wrote: »

no sarcasm at all

Oh okay.

roy nelson wrote:

But i know if i had the choice to fight sagat or a bouncy ball blanka 100 times i would pick sagat.

Your choice is obviously marred however by the tiny fact that YOU'RE INSANE!

K.O.Kiki

Roy, I'll respect your opinion even if I think it's grossly misguided.

Saying that non-shoto characters rely on "randomness" does them a great disservice. Spacing, they have to think HARDER than a shoto due to only having use of their limbs. Combos, you ever try Fuerte's RSF loop? Doesn't get much more technical than that.

Plus we crave variety. Or do you want to go back to Street Fighter I's Ryu vs Ken matches?

Doyler01

roy nelson wrote: »

if i had my way street fighter would be called shoto fighter 4 and only have shoto fighters plus guile.

IN MY OPINION shoto v shoto matches make for the most technical and enjoyable fights. much more combos, spacing and timing involved.

It would be a better game if they would remove the unorthodox characters like vega, blanka, el fuete who rely on their randomness and jumping around the screen rather than technical combos.

plus you would you be familiar with all characters.

Could you elaborate on this?

First off, you said shotos + Guile only.. You think Guile has a more exciting style than Vega? REALLY?? Im not bashing Guile players here, but hes never exactly been known as the most exciting character in SF4.

And nothing is stopping you from getting familiar with all characters in SSF4.

roy nelson

i would be all for ken vs ryu only matches, they would be so tight and technical.

you have to admit with variety comes an element of randomness with characters ive mentioned.

Most fuertes i play do their best impression of the running man and it makes for a boring and unenjoyable game.

I know what im gonna get with shoto fighters and the best player will always come out on top.

Sisko

roy nelson wrote: »

if i had my way street fighter would be called shoto fighter 4 and only have shoto fighters plus guile.

IN MY OPINION shoto v shoto matches make for the most technical and enjoyable fights. much more combos, spacing and timing involved.

It would be a better game if they would remove the unorthodox characters like vega, blanka, el fuete who rely on their randomness and jumping around the screen rather than technical combos.

plus you would you be familiar with all characters.

Hehe , you should deffo make a thread on SRK and post this. Epic.

UberPrinny_Baal

GorySnake wrote:

Seth: Wouldn't recommend using him until you get really good at the game. High risk, low reward

Yeah I wish Seth was at least a Glass Cannon, but he feels more like a Glass Bar of Soap: He certainly stings, but he's probably going to end up shattered on the floor either way.

roy nelson wrote: »

Most fuertes i play do their best impression of the running man and it makes for a boring and unenjoyable game.

Fuerte clearly results in awesome and highly enjoyable matches. Like this one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaYb7PW9QwA

That guy was having so much fun, he did his own impression of the running man!

K.O.Kiki

Ryu is technical, yes. A good all-round character. A matchup everybody should learn by heart.

Ken though? Ken's ALL about the kara shenanigans IMO.

chris mcmahon

although i dont agree with his main suggestion for shoto fighter,i think the point roy is trying to make is that some characters are gimicky, some are annoying and some are cheap. especially from a shoto players point of view, which roy is.

can anyone honestly tell me they enjoy fighting zangief? the whole fight consists of running away and poking.
then we have dhalsim. this fight is all chasing unless your character has a very good fireball.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh el fuerte, worst charcter ever. he can suck my balls, squeeky sneakers. this is the most ridiculous and annoying fight in the game. there is no way anyone can enjoy fighting a fuerte.
im not saying they are bad characters, i like all the characters with the exception of dan and fuerte, fuerte because of what i just said and dan because he is pointless, a waste of a charcter slot that bisons cape should fill.

variety is the spice of life and the different fights are what makes sf so good, but yes, some characters and their various match ups arent fun

chris mcmahon

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Ryu is technical, yes. A good all-round character. A matchup everybody should learn by heart.

Ken though? Ken's ALL about the kara shenanigans IMO.

i play ken. ken is more than a kara throw, highly enjoyable to play as and to fight, as for exciting matches, i love to watch a good ken more than any other character such as.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X5-eXBbRG4
what a great match, yipes has a bad ass ken. very little focus on the kara stuff. and a lovely head of hair

Doctor DooM

chris mcmahon wrote: »

can anyone honestly tell me they enjoy fighting zangief? the whole fight consists of running away and poking.
then we have dhalsim. this fight is all chasing unless your character has a very good fireball.

Aw man, wait til you get a load of me in a bad mood.

Doctor DooM

chris mcmahon wrote: »

although i dont agree with his main suggestion for shoto fighter,i think the point roy is trying to make is that some characters are gimicky, some are annoying and some are cheap. especially from a shoto players point of view, which roy is.

can anyone honestly tell me they enjoy fighting zangief? the whole fight consists of running away and poking.
then we have dhalsim. this fight is all chasing unless your character has a very good fireball.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh el fuerte, worst charcter ever. he can suck my balls, squeeky sneakers. this is the most ridiculous and annoying fight in the game. there is no way anyone can enjoy fighting a fuerte.
im not saying they are bad characters, i like all the characters with the exception of dan and fuerte, fuerte because of what i just said and dan because he is pointless, a waste of a charcter slot that bisons cape should fill.

variety is the spice of life and the different fights are what makes sf so good, but yes, some characters and their various match ups arent fun

I completely disagree, btw.

The joy in SF for me is figuring out how the different fights go.

For example, Dreddy and I would have a series of extremely close matches. Gief vs Guile, should be pure boring. But to me they were immense fun!


Watching a good Fuerte is a thing of beauty.

What do you mean by cheap? Alot of people consider Ken "cheap".

Doctor DooM

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Your choice is obviously marred however by the tiny fact that YOU'RE INSANE!

[modhat] attack the post, not the poster. [/modhat]

Ken B

roy nelson wrote: »

if i had my way street fighter would be called shoto fighter 4 and only have shoto fighters plus guile.

IN MY OPINION shoto v shoto matches make for the most technical and enjoyable fights. much more combos, spacing and timing involved.

It would be a better game if they would remove the unorthodox characters like vega, blanka, el fuete who rely on their randomness and jumping around the screen rather than technical combos.

plus you would you be familiar with all characters.

I take it you prefer draughts to chess?

Taking Vega/Fuerte/Blanka out of the game would be like taking the Knight piece from the chess board. You'd lose the the unorthodox, chaotic, loose-canon type characters.

In war, most people want the tanks, shotguns and bazookas.....Vega is like the crazy bastard with the knife!

lazlo

this thread is great. I have laughed out loud several times already

I can't say that I agree with Roy at all though

Dreddybajs

chris mcmahon wrote: »

can anyone honestly tell me they enjoy fighting zangief? the whole fight consists of running away and poking.
then we have dhalsim. this fight is all chasing unless your character has a very good fireball.
ahhhhhhhhhhhhh el fuerte, worst charcter ever. he can suck my balls, squeeky sneakers. this is the most ridiculous and annoying fight in the game. there is no way anyone can enjoy fighting a fuerte.

I like all of these matchups for what it's worth

chris mcmahon

kens who mash shoryu all day are cheap yes (not me;))

i just cant stand fuerte, he is too unorthadox, i would include hakan in this but he simply poses no threat, whereas fuerte is an annoying c**t. in saying that tho, there is an amzing fuerte player called kai, i love watching his fights, he cripples the opposition.

sometimes i actually enjoy the dhalsim match, even as ken!!!.

as for gief, its just the same thing over and over, run away poke, run away poke, try something different, get a lariot in the ring, back to poking. not fun for a character who needs to be in your face to do damage.

Doyler01

@Roy Nelson & Chris McMahon

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this is a really bad attitude to have, I know this because I used to feel the same way. When you see that your up against whatever character you have a problem with you instantly lose some focus while thinking about how much of a dick the other guy must be for picking said character. Then mid game you think up excuses for why your losing (Cheap/random ect.) instead of just dealing with it and working on the fight. For the record I used to hate pretty much all the characters listed here.. But then I realized how dumb it was to think this way.

I dont think any character is cheap BUT if any character is cheap its Top tier Ryu, not bottom tier Vega...

@Ropedrink Balrog is my fav matchup.

ogiekeaney

roy nelson wrote: »

if i had my way street fighter would be called shoto fighter 4 and only have shoto fighters plus guile.

IN MY OPINION shoto v shoto matches make for the most technical and enjoyable fights. much more combos, spacing and timing involved.

It would be a better game if they would remove the unorthodox characters like vega, blanka, el fuete who rely on their randomness and jumping around the screen rather than technical combos.

plus you would you be familiar with all characters.

I DISLIKE THIS POST IMMENSELY

Doctor DooM

Doyler01 wrote: »

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this is a really bad attitude to have, I know this because I used to feel the same way. When you see that your up against whatever character you have a problem with you instantly lose some focus while thinking about how much of a dick the other guy must be for picking said character. Then mid game you think up excuses for why your losing (Cheap/random ect.) instead of just dealing with it and working on the fight. For the record I used to hate pretty much all the characters listed here.. But then I realized how dumb it was to think this way.

I dont think any character is cheap BUT if any character is cheap its Top tier Ryu, not bottom tier Vega...

Lads you should listen to Doyler here, he is morpheus and he's saying to FREE YOUR MIND.

Don't listen to him in the sequels to this post though, any old philosophical bull**** will do in them.

Doctor DooM

RopeDrink wrote: »

Ahahaha, I just proved my own post above... Logged into Player Match and accidentally hit Random Select (Box above Balrog) and got the complete opposite to him, Dhalsim... Opponent at least honored it with a RSelect and got Akuma whom from my understanding is a bad matchup for Dhalsim, neither of us had a bloody clue what we were doing and with comical results.

Never again... Never again...

Contrary wise, I had a good old sessions with Sagat06 yesterday, in which I picked:

Ryu
Ken
Guile
Ibuki
Blanka
Chun Li
E Honda
Juri

... and a couple more and it was great crack! I feel it kinda helped keep my hands keep a little limber and not just back- forward- punch.

I was picking Bison the other day and I did azza's little cross up lk lk lk xx scissors kick combo. Felt kinda sick

roy nelson

@ doyler etc

the reason I have that opinion is probably because im not really that into my fighting games. I dont have time for any other game or any other characters with a wacky moves.

I just like to pick ryu throw fire balls and hopefully get matched against a fellow shoto. no interest in grinding out victories against a vega who has flown across the screen 15 times a round.

i appreciate someone blocking a cross up successfully rather than mashing out electricity of spinning a lariat. my mind is as free as a bird

Doctor DooM

roy nelson wrote: »

@ doyler etc

the reason I have that opinion is probably because im not really that into my fighting games. I dont have time for any other game or any other characters with a wacky moves.

I just like to pick ryu throw fire balls and hopefully get matched against a fellow shoto. no interest in grinding out victories against a vega who has flown across the screen 15 times a round.

i appreciate someone blocking a cross up successfully rather than mashing out electricity of spinning a lariat. my mind is as free as a bird

It's not really. You're limiting yourself to enjoying/ tolerating half of what the game's got to offer. *Shrugs* your loss I guess, I would consider SF to be extremely boring if there was just shotos on offer, I easily find them the most boring to fight (and that's coming from a Guile).

Also, bad shotos mash out DPs just as much as bad Giefs mash out lariats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJqLt9QtYZY

PPC

roy nelson wrote: »

i appreciate someone blocking a cross up successfully rather than mashing out electricity of spinning a lariat. my mind is as free as a bird

I was in that same frame of mind before as a Blanka player. I'd be annoyed that i could be ultra'd by chunli on block. Eventually I learned its a move just can't do unless i'm sure its going to hit.

If you know someone is going to use electricity or lariat then its time to change tactics.

Once you have that counter set of tactics the game gets alot more fun

UberPrinny_Baal

Doctor DooM wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJqLt9QtYZY

Man whenever I come across a random U2 Ken, I know I'm pretty much guaranteed to land whatever I want after I'm done ducking their full-screen flame kick.

Dunjohn

I love meeting electricity spammers. As Balrog, if I get too close and they just sit there spamming, I spend a few seconds getting my position just right, letting them wonder WTF I'm up to, then crouch fierce kick them out of it. I imagine that the foundations of their entire world view crumble when that happens.

Orim

PPC wrote: »

I was in that same frame of mind before as a Blanka player. I'd be annoyed that i could be ultra'd by chunli on block. Eventually I learned its a move just can't do unless i'm sure its going to hit.

If you know someone is going to use electricity or lariat then its time to change tactics.

Once you have that counter set of tactics the game gets alot more fun

I'm fairly certain Chun can U1 blanka ball on hit. Yup she can.

BanjoB

Orim wrote: »

I'm fairly certain Chun can U1 blanka ball on hit. Yup she can.

Really??. If u get hit doesn't that mean u won't have enough charge for U1.

bush

BanjoB wrote: »

Really??. If u get hit doesn't that mean u won't have enough charge for U1.

Not if he does a combo that ends in a ball.

chris mcmahon

jesus christ doom, how did that ken u fought have so many points?

anyway, i like all the characters in the game except fuerte and dan. there are just some i dont enjoy fighting as a ken player like zangief, brilliant character, love watching amazing zangief play (vance/vangief), but to fight, cant stand him. thats not because i lose to him, i beat most giefs i fight, its just a grind.
vega, again, i love the character and one of my favorite players to watch is a vega (tatsu). that guy is a wizard. dont mind the fight either, tricky stuff. i get beat by many vegas tho:(.

dont tar me roy nelsons brush, i dont agree with him, i just think some match ups for ken are boring.

BanjoB

Bush80 wrote: »

Not if he does a combo that ends in a ball.

Ah very good. Didn't think about charge if your eating a combo

bush

BanjoB wrote: »

Ah very good. Didn't think about charge if your eating a combo

Ye its pretty stupid. A few characters can punish balls no hit with ultra and a lot can punish with normals and special moves.

Cobelcog

Bush80 wrote: »

Ye its pretty stupid. A few characters can punish balls no hit with ultra and a lot can punish with normals and special moves.

teehee

K.O.Kiki

Bush80 wrote: »

Ye its pretty stupid. A few characters can punish balls no hit with ultra and a lot can punish with normals and special moves.

UWAAAAAAH!!

bush

Its ok cos I use 2 of the characters that can do it so it balances out for me :pac:

Orim

This thread took an awesome direction cause of my little comment.

But yeah you can get charge while he combos.

animaX

Doyler01 wrote: »

I dont think any character is cheap BUT if any character is cheap its Top tier Ryu, not bottom tier Vega...

Yeah, bloody top tier ryu has it so easy landing ultra off anything. BOORING

roy nelson wrote: »

I just like to pick ryu throw fire balls and hopefully get matched against a fellow shoto.

Shoto matches at the highest level can be exciting to watch (here for example) but in general its not true. You need more variety. Game would be a bore with shoto's just firing projectiles all day