Refused to get new parking permits

Decorus

Hi,
Can Management Company or the agent refuse to give parking permits due to some rules being changed and i was never notified about them in advance?
Car was clamped and unclamping fee was paid, is their any way to get these money back from either the agent or Commitee who is giving orders?
Thanks!

Paulw

It would depend on the rules, how they were changed, and how the information was distributed.

Are you a tenant or are you the unit owner (company shareholder)?

If you're a tenant, then it's up to the landlord to provide the information to you. The management company has only an obligation to inform the company shareholders (unit owners).

You can try putting in a claim from the management company (through the agent) or directly from the clamping company. I have no idea how successful you may be though.

Decorus

Thanks!
Im the owner but my tenants car was clampped.
As a shareholder i was never notified about changing rules, found out in the conversation last night and this morning car was clampped.
So i was thinking who is responsible: agent or Committe which is "giving orders" to them as we were told?

Paulw

The directors of the management company have a responsibility to notify shareholders of changes in rules, through the management agent.

This is normally done by post, but, post can always be lost.

You should check if notice was sent out with the management agent.

You should complain to the management agent and directly to the directors of the management company, and seek a refund that way. The clamping firm are not at fault (it would seem) since they are contracted to clamp. It should be up to the management company to notify you, by whatever is the normal means of notification.

Decorus

Thanks a million!

gimme5minutes

Quick question, was the clamping in this case another example of a car being clamped by a body with no legal power to do so?

Ste.phen

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Quick question, was the clamping in this case another example of a car being clamped by a body with no legal power to do so?

No, it says there that the clamping company were hired by the property owner to provide clamping services

Decorus

Yeah, think they were hired, but not sure.

gimme5minutes

Ste.phen wrote: »

No, it says there that the clamping company were hired by the property owner to provide clamping services

Decorus wrote: »

Yeah, think they were hired, but not sure.

And what difference does that make? Every clamping company is hired by the owner of some property.

Only the county/city councils have a legal right to clamp people.

athtrasna

gimme5minutes wrote: »

And what difference does that make? Every clamping company is hired by the owner of some property.

Only the county/city councils have a legal right to clamp people.

Only councils can clamp in a public place but in a private development the MC has the right to retain the services of a clamping company to implement parking rules. We had to vote on it at our AGM, but it was overwhelmingly approved.

gimme5minutes

athtrasna wrote: »

Only councils can clamp in a public place but in a private development the MC has the right to retain the services of a clamping company to implement parking rules. We had to vote on it at our AGM, but it was overwhelmingly approved.

They have the right to hire clampers alright. But the clampers have no right to clamp. There is no legislation saying private companies can clamp, that's why people cut them off and get away with it.

Decorus

Should I complain to the clamping Co or there is no point?

sickofwaiting

Decorus wrote: »

Should I complain to the clamping Co or there is no point?

Let them clamp you again, cut the clamp off, making sh*te of it the process, and when they start giving out to you over it tell them they can shove it up their hole.

This private clamping racket is a disgrace. It's basically extortion. Some of them are charging over €100 to have the clamp removed, who set that fee? 500K people are on the dole in this country, lots of people haven't a shilling to rub together since the recession. It is outrageous that a significant % of people have to pay over half the money they receive a week to get a clamp taken off their vehicle when the clamping company don't even have any legal right to immobilize it in the first place.

Decorus

Thats actually the situation I am in at the moment...
I would do it no problem myself but I feel it is not right to ask tenant to do it as I believe he will rather prefer to move out...

otwb

So you would prefer that lazy drivers park in disabled spaces, fire exits and other peoples parking spaces rather than park properly and with due consideration for other car-park users???

The management company is probably reinforcing health & safety concerns or else are issuing parking permits only to those units who have paid their management fees...

...no background provided as to WHY the car was clamped....

Paulw

gimme5minutes wrote: »

They have the right to hire clampers alright. But the clampers have no right to clamp. There is no legislation saying private companies can clamp, that's why people cut them off and get away with it.

You're in a delicate legal situation.

Cutting off the clamp could result in you being taken to court (by the clamping company) for criminal damage.

Of course, you can take them to court for interfering with a motor vehicle.

Both issues would require a civil case to be taken to court, which would cost a lot to do. Hence, clamping companies don't take action against those who cut off clamps, and no one has a legal precidence set where clamping is illegal.

Until that happens, clamping is legal (since it's not illegal).

The OPs issue here is with the management company. The clampers were simply hired by the management company to enforce clamping as per instructions.

gimme5minutes

Paulw wrote: »

You're in a delicate legal situation.

Cutting off the clamp could result in you being taken to court (by the clamping company) for criminal damage.

Of course, you can take them to court for interfering with a motor vehicle.

Both issues would require a civil case to be taken to court, which would cost a lot to do. Hence, clamping companies don't take action against those who cut off clamps, and no one has a legal precidence set where clamping is illegal.

Until that happens, clamping is legal (since it's not illegal).

The OPs issue here is with the management company. The clampers were simply hired by the management company to enforce clamping as per instructions.

No clamping company is ever going to take anyone to court for breaking a clamp. Why? Because if the court found against them they would be out of business overnight. They would never want to risk losing a business, generating millions on an annual basis, to get compensation for a damaged clamp.

Even if the court let them keep clamping it's highly likely imo that they would no longer be able to charge the extortionate fees of €100+ that they decided upon themselves and that makes their business so juicy.

If you are clamped by one of these cowboy companies cut it off yourself and leave a note on it telling them to stick it up their holes because they are not going to do anything about it.

Decorus

otwb wrote: »

So you would prefer that lazy drivers park in disabled spaces, fire exits and other peoples parking spaces rather than park properly and with due consideration for other car-park users???

The management company is probably reinforcing health & safety concerns or else are issuing parking permits only to those units who have paid their management fees...

...no background provided as to WHY the car was clamped....

Background is I had parking permit up until April. Apparently Management Co changed rules without notification that standing order has to be for a bigger amount (pay all in 10 months instead of 12). Told me to bring verification of the changed standing order. Banks were already closed, next day car got clamped. How the hell can I know about rules without notification and reasonable adjust them?
To get permits for the first 4 months was no problems at all and no issues were raised.

Paulw

Decorus wrote: »

Background is I had parking permit up until April. Apparently Management Co changed rules without notification that standing order has to be for a bigger amount (pay all in 10 months instead of 12). Told me to bring verification of the changed standing order. Banks were already closed, next day car got clamped. How the hell can I know about rules without notification and reasonable adjust them?
To get permits for the first 4 months was no problems at all and no issues were raised.

Basically they changed the rules about allowing payment of management fees?

Your issue is with the management company (the directors). Your recourse is to contact them directly (or failing that through the management agent), and explain your case.

It's common for parking permits to be renewed. It's not uncommon for a change of clamping company.

But, they should have given enough notice and time for any change.

Decorus

Yeah, they changed rules of payments of management fees.
Directors never notified, agent refused to give permits which caused clamping outside of the apartment...
Can directors be liable for it? I mean not giving a notice. What action can be taken?

Paulw

Decorus wrote: »

Yeah, they changed rules of payments of management fees.
Directors never notified, agent refused to give permits which caused clamping outside of the apartment...
Can directors be liable for it? I mean not giving a notice. What action can be taken?

Nope. Technically your fees are due from the first date of your company year (unless otherwise specified in your Lease Contract). By allowing you 12 payments is simply a nice way of doing it. Obviously people are not paying (company is short of funds) so they have changed the rules to get the money in quicker.

Yes, it's not a good way of doing it. It's bad that they didn't inform people.

But, they are not liable, and basically I'm not aware of any action at all that can be taken.

Express your frustration, make it an issue at the next AGM, and make sure it doesn't happen again, but until then, just pay your fees.

Decorus

I owe this apartment for 4 years and it has always been spreaded for 12 months. I am more than sure 90 % of residents do the same.
New directors were appointed few months ago and it looks they do not care enough, apart from being "directors".
I have shareholder's status same as they do, so how they can change the rules without notification and not giving me permits "until I bring something" what they personally decided?
How about the Agent? Are they liable for anything like this?

Paulw

Decorus wrote: »

I have shareholder's status same as they do, so how they can change the rules without notification and not giving me permits "until I bring something" what they personally decided?
How about the Agent? Are they liable for anything like this?

Directors are elected to make decisions on behalf of the development (somewhat similar to a govt running a country). They decide how best funds are to be collected and how the place is run.

If you don't like it, at the next AGM, you can put yourself forward to be a director.

The agent has no liability since the agent is only doing as instructed by the management company directors.

Cookie_Monster

Paulw wrote: »

Cutting off the clamp could result in you being taken to court (by the clamping company) for criminal damage.

They'd need evidence that you actually did it too. How do they know you didn't just arrive back at your vehicle to find a mysterious stranger had helped you out

Victor

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Quick question, was the clamping in this case another example of a car being clamped by a body with no legal power to do so?

Can we stay on topic please?

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

They'd need evidence that you actually did it too. How do they know you didn't just arrive back at your vehicle to find a mysterious stranger had helped you out

CCTV

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

CCTV

That'd be the evidence all right, if it were around.