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Social welfare fraud!

  • 19-05-2010 10:26AM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭


    Im studying down in Carlow IT and I see students in the dole queue each week, i know a few people claiming with rent allowance and having secret jobs in pubs etc. I know at least 4 people that brag about getting the dole in college and it pisses me off, Im working 4 nights a week to pay off my college fees and pay for insurance petrol and accomodation, im scraping by getting €120 euro a week and i work from 10 in the evening until 3:30 in the morning.
    That on top of studying is a serious work load. I get on with it though because I know I have to, what else could i do? Go on welfare full time?
    I dont get any handouts from anybody, and it makes me sick seeing these students sit on their fat holes every night drinking while I work at all hours.

    Is it possible to report people anonymously for welfare fraud?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    Yes it is.

    An anonymous letter.

    Since the recession the amount of anonymous tips has risen 600%.

    All of these would be looked into but the resources aren't there to catch everyone.

    Sounds like a joke, but more staff are needed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 271 ✭✭scorpioishere


    Yes you can report these people anonymously. You will do this country a big favour by doing this as there are so many fraud in the social welfare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    how can they be a registered full time student and claim the dole? how is that possible:(
    do they offer any financial incentive for reporting people for welfare fraud?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    Piriz wrote: »
    how can they be a registered full time student and claim the dole? how is that possible:(
    do they offer any financial incentive for reporting people for welfare fraud?

    There just aren't the resources to catch everyone. They need people to provide tip-offs.

    Surely a financial reward for saving money is a bit self-defeating?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,297 ✭✭✭✭Sam Kade


    Piriz wrote: »
    do they offer any financial incentive for reporting people for welfare fraud?
    No they do not.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,734 ✭✭✭MidlandsM


    REPORT THEM!


    isn't there an anonymous email these day to do it by?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,352 ✭✭✭daveyboy_1ie


    Its the people like that who abuse the system that make those genuine claimers to be stigmatised. It should be possible to report them, in fact I know it is as I hear people being caught out by tip offs. Do it and at least that way you won't need to feel so pissed off, it certainly would me if I worked my a** off and seen someone else abuse the sytem. College was tough for me financially and at the time most in my class seemed to have one scam or another going on, different times of course but it p*ssed me off all the same.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Piriz


    Funkfield wrote: »
    There just aren't the resources to catch everyone. They need people to provide tip-offs.

    Surely a financial reward for saving money is a bit self-defeating?

    but how can they be on the system being both a registered full time student and claiming welfare...like can people work full time and claim welfare too? i don't think so but surely students can't do it either?

    No, a 200euro reward for example for a report which leads to successfully catching someone making fraudulent welfare claims could save the government ~10,000euro a year..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 223 ✭✭namaimo


    You can report them (and you should!) online/by phone/by post. Here's the link:

    http://www.welfare.ie/EN/ContactUs/Pages/reportfraud.aspx


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,604 ✭✭✭dave1982


    report


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    Piriz wrote: »
    but how can they be on the system being both a registered full time student and claiming welfare...like can people work full time and claim welfare too? i don't think so but surely students can't do it either?
    You say about "the system". There isn't one system. There are many systems. There is cross checking done but it is seriously under-resourced.

    Piriz wrote: »
    No, a 200euro reward for example for a report which leads to successfully catching someone making fraudulent welfare claims could save the government ~10,000euro a year..

    There aren't financial rewards for reporting other crimes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭OmeGar


    As pointed out their is an online site for reporting Fruad.

    However i should point out that there is a variant of the Back to education scheme that requires students to sign every month. So the students you see in the dole Queue may actually be doing it legally..

    As for the people working full time. If they working and paying tax, then revenue notify the dept. of Social Protection of people starting work. this is i think done every month, but may be more frequent. Once DSP get the notice, they review a case to ensure it is all correct.

    However if you think someone is being fruadalent, report them. The Dept. won't automatically cut someones money based on a report, but they will investigate each one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,023 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Funkfield wrote: »
    You say about "the system". There isn't one system. There are many systems. There is cross checking done but it is seriously under-resourced.

    Surely all these systems should be cross referenced automatically via a software database ?
    Cross reference pps numbers ,date of birth,surname,address,etc etc ,it cant be that difficult.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    Surely all these systems should be cross referenced automatically via a software database ?
    Cross reference pps numbers ,date of birth,surname,address,etc etc ,it cant be that difficult.
    I wouldn't trust the government with a database. Of anything. Just think of all the incorrect information that it would hold and of all the hoops you'd need to hop through to get any of it corrected.

    I do see what you're driving at though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭OmeGar


    The information is cross checked, however the information is not synced on a "Live" basis, instead files are shared on a regular basis.

    I think this is because of the Data Protection Act, but i could be wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭alrightcuz


    Whats wrong is your grant not enough for you,,,,, these people just lost there grant since the budget probably on a similar scheme to back to education , the way rules are changing i wouldn't be surprised if they had to sign on every month.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 101 ✭✭pulpfictionost


    alrightcuz wrote: »
    Whats wrong is your grant not enough for you,,,,, these people just lost there grant since the budget probably on a similar scheme to back to education , the way rules are changing i wouldn't be surprised if they had to sign on every month.

    I already said i dont get any handouts, that includes grant money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,322 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Im studying down in Carlow IT and I see students in the dole queue each week, i know a few people claiming with rent allowance and having secret jobs in pubs etc. I know at least 4 people that brag about getting the dole in college and it pisses me off, Im working 4 nights a week to pay off my college fees and pay for insurance petrol and accomodation, im scraping by getting €120 euro a week and i work from 10 in the evening until 3:30 in the morning.
    That on top of studying is a serious work load. I get on with it though because I know I have to, what else could i do? Go on welfare full time?
    I dont get any handouts from anybody, and it makes me sick seeing these students sit on their fat holes every night drinking while I work at all hours.

    Is it possible to report people anonymously for welfare fraud?

    As pointed out you can attend college and still claim a payment. You can also still work and get a payment in fact the social welfare encourage you to go back to college and re train. You are making huge assumptions about peoples personal circumstances calling them lazy etc.

    They may be commiting fruad but its unlikely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    OP -are you sure these people aren't actually on BTEA?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    eth0_ wrote: »
    OP -are you sure these people aren't actually on BTEA?

    Report them anonymously anyway. Whats the worst that could happen?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,731 ✭✭✭✭entropi


    Oh btw you ARE allowed to work up to 20 hrs per week while on BTEA...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭tommy21


    OmeGar wrote: »
    As pointed out their is an online site for reporting Fruad.

    However i should point out that there is a variant of the Back to education scheme that requires students to sign every month. So the students you see in the dole Queue may actually be doing it legally..

    As for the people working full time. If they working and paying tax, then revenue notify the dept. of Social Protection of people starting work. this is i think done every month, but may be more frequent. Once DSP get the notice, they review a case to ensure it is all correct.

    However if you think someone is being fruadalent, report them. The Dept. won't automatically cut someones money based on a report, but they will investigate each one.

    It is also possible for postgraduate students doing a thesis by research only (i.e. not a taught masters as they would not be available to work with lectures) to obtain JSB or JSA. But certainly some of the people you say may be dole cheats and I would advise you to report them!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,050 ✭✭✭✭Degag


    Im studying down in Carlow IT and I see students in the dole queue each week, i know a few people claiming with rent allowance and having secret jobs in pubs etc. I know at least 4 people that brag about getting the dole in college and it pisses me off, Im working 4 nights a week to pay off my college fees and pay for insurance petrol and accomodation, im scraping by getting €120 euro a week and i work from 10 in the evening until 3:30 in the morning.
    That on top of studying is a serious work load. I get on with it though because I know I have to, what else could i do? Go on welfare full time?
    I dont get any handouts from anybody, and it makes me sick seeing these students sit on their fat holes every night drinking while I work at all hours.

    Is it possible to report people anonymously for welfare fraud?

    As an aside, you should be earning more than €120 for working 22 hours. Perhaps report your employer for not paying the minimum wage?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,217 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Report them, but do not make any accusations, you do not know their circumstances and what they are entitled to. Why are you in the dole queue may I ask?

    Don't create a scenario because of your jealousy OP. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭eth0_


    Oh btw you ARE allowed to work up to 20 hrs per week while on BTEA...

    Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

    I dread to think how much this scheme is costing the state. Let's face it, this country is so screwed at the moment (and will be for years to come) that getting a degree will do SFA to increase your job prospects and those who do complete their course while on BTEA will end up either emigrating or doing a low paid job unrelated to their new qualification.

    I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,603 ✭✭✭Funkfield


    eth0_ wrote: »
    Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

    No one on BTEA should be getting paid through the holidays. If they are, that's a disgrace. They should be on regular Jobseekers and be looking for work like everyone else.

    eth0_ wrote: »
    I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.

    I think you're right.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 31,117 ✭✭✭✭snubbleste


    eth0_ wrote: »
    Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

    I dread to think how much this scheme is costing the state. Let's face it, this country is so screwed at the moment (and will be for years to come) that getting a degree will do SFA to increase your job prospects and those who do complete their course while on BTEA will end up either emigrating or doing a low paid job unrelated to their new qualification.

    I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.

    There are almost 500,000 people out of work in this country and there are very few jobs. Do you think it is more productive for the State to pay €196 for people to seek almost non-existent positions or to encourage those people to upskill or reskill?

    No one on Btea is paid during the holidays, they are able to apply for JA if they cannot find employment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Balagan


    Funkfield wrote: »
    No one on BTEA should be getting paid through the holidays. If they are, that's a disgrace. They should be on regular Jobseekers and be looking for work like everyone else.



    They are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭jamesie_boy


    Do they not need written confirmation from the college to confirm they aren't in full time education? Surely there is a database they can look up to confirm your not in college


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Balagan


    eth0_ wrote: »
    Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

    I dread to think how much this scheme is costing the state. Let's face it, this country is so screwed at the moment (and will be for years to come) that getting a degree will do SFA to increase your job prospects and those who do complete their course while on BTEA will end up either emigrating or doing a low paid job unrelated to their new qualification.

    I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.

    If you know of fraud, report it, but enough with the sweeping generalizations.


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