Social welfare fraud!

pulpfictionost

Im studying down in Carlow IT and I see students in the dole queue each week, i know a few people claiming with rent allowance and having secret jobs in pubs etc. I know at least 4 people that brag about getting the dole in college and it pisses me off, Im working 4 nights a week to pay off my college fees and pay for insurance petrol and accomodation, im scraping by getting €120 euro a week and i work from 10 in the evening until 3:30 in the morning.
That on top of studying is a serious work load. I get on with it though because I know I have to, what else could i do? Go on welfare full time?
I dont get any handouts from anybody, and it makes me sick seeing these students sit on their fat holes every night drinking while I work at all hours.

Is it possible to report people anonymously for welfare fraud?

Funkfield

Yes it is.

An anonymous letter.

Since the recession the amount of anonymous tips has risen 600%.

All of these would be looked into but the resources aren't there to catch everyone.

Sounds like a joke, but more staff are needed.

scorpioishere

Yes you can report these people anonymously. You will do this country a big favour by doing this as there are so many fraud in the social welfare.

Piriz

how can they be a registered full time student and claim the dole? how is that possible:(
do they offer any financial incentive for reporting people for welfare fraud?

Funkfield

Piriz wrote: »

how can they be a registered full time student and claim the dole? how is that possible:(
do they offer any financial incentive for reporting people for welfare fraud?

There just aren't the resources to catch everyone. They need people to provide tip-offs.

Surely a financial reward for saving money is a bit self-defeating?

Sam Kade

Piriz wrote: »

do they offer any financial incentive for reporting people for welfare fraud?

No they do not.

MidlandsM

REPORT THEM!


isn't there an anonymous email these day to do it by?

daveyboy_1ie

Its the people like that who abuse the system that make those genuine claimers to be stigmatised. It should be possible to report them, in fact I know it is as I hear people being caught out by tip offs. Do it and at least that way you won't need to feel so pissed off, it certainly would me if I worked my a** off and seen someone else abuse the sytem. College was tough for me financially and at the time most in my class seemed to have one scam or another going on, different times of course but it p*ssed me off all the same.

Piriz

Funkfield wrote: »

There just aren't the resources to catch everyone. They need people to provide tip-offs.

Surely a financial reward for saving money is a bit self-defeating?

but how can they be on the system being both a registered full time student and claiming welfare...like can people work full time and claim welfare too? i don't think so but surely students can't do it either?

No, a 200euro reward for example for a report which leads to successfully catching someone making fraudulent welfare claims could save the government ~10,000euro a year..

namaimo

You can report them (and you should!) online/by phone/by post. Here's the link:

http://www.welfare.ie/EN/ContactUs/Pages/reportfraud.aspx

dave1982

report

Funkfield

Piriz wrote: »

but how can they be on the system being both a registered full time student and claiming welfare...like can people work full time and claim welfare too? i don't think so but surely students can't do it either?

You say about "the system". There isn't one system. There are many systems. There is cross checking done but it is seriously under-resourced.

Piriz wrote: »

No, a 200euro reward for example for a report which leads to successfully catching someone making fraudulent welfare claims could save the government ~10,000euro a year..

There aren't financial rewards for reporting other crimes.

OmeGar

As pointed out their is an online site for reporting Fruad.

However i should point out that there is a variant of the Back to education scheme that requires students to sign every month. So the students you see in the dole Queue may actually be doing it legally..

As for the people working full time. If they working and paying tax, then revenue notify the dept. of Social Protection of people starting work. this is i think done every month, but may be more frequent. Once DSP get the notice, they review a case to ensure it is all correct.

However if you think someone is being fruadalent, report them. The Dept. won't automatically cut someones money based on a report, but they will investigate each one.

MisterAnarchy

Funkfield wrote: »

You say about "the system". There isn't one system. There are many systems. There is cross checking done but it is seriously under-resourced.

Surely all these systems should be cross referenced automatically via a software database ?
Cross reference pps numbers ,date of birth,surname,address,etc etc ,it cant be that difficult.

monkeypants

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Surely all these systems should be cross referenced automatically via a software database ?
Cross reference pps numbers ,date of birth,surname,address,etc etc ,it cant be that difficult.

I wouldn't trust the government with a database. Of anything. Just think of all the incorrect information that it would hold and of all the hoops you'd need to hop through to get any of it corrected.

I do see what you're driving at though.

OmeGar

The information is cross checked, however the information is not synced on a "Live" basis, instead files are shared on a regular basis.

I think this is because of the Data Protection Act, but i could be wrong.

alrightcuz

Whats wrong is your grant not enough for you,,,,, these people just lost there grant since the budget probably on a similar scheme to back to education , the way rules are changing i wouldn't be surprised if they had to sign on every month.

pulpfictionost

alrightcuz wrote: »

Whats wrong is your grant not enough for you,,,,, these people just lost there grant since the budget probably on a similar scheme to back to education , the way rules are changing i wouldn't be surprised if they had to sign on every month.

I already said i dont get any handouts, that includes grant money.

Grumpypants

pulpfictionost wrote: »

Im studying down in Carlow IT and I see students in the dole queue each week, i know a few people claiming with rent allowance and having secret jobs in pubs etc. I know at least 4 people that brag about getting the dole in college and it pisses me off, Im working 4 nights a week to pay off my college fees and pay for insurance petrol and accomodation, im scraping by getting €120 euro a week and i work from 10 in the evening until 3:30 in the morning.
That on top of studying is a serious work load. I get on with it though because I know I have to, what else could i do? Go on welfare full time?
I dont get any handouts from anybody, and it makes me sick seeing these students sit on their fat holes every night drinking while I work at all hours.

Is it possible to report people anonymously for welfare fraud?

As pointed out you can attend college and still claim a payment. You can also still work and get a payment in fact the social welfare encourage you to go back to college and re train. You are making huge assumptions about peoples personal circumstances calling them lazy etc.

They may be commiting fruad but its unlikely.

eth0_

OP -are you sure these people aren't actually on BTEA?

Funkfield

eth0_ wrote: »

OP -are you sure these people aren't actually on BTEA?

Report them anonymously anyway. Whats the worst that could happen?

entropi

Oh btw you ARE allowed to work up to 20 hrs per week while on BTEA...

tommy21

OmeGar wrote: »

As pointed out their is an online site for reporting Fruad.

However i should point out that there is a variant of the Back to education scheme that requires students to sign every month. So the students you see in the dole Queue may actually be doing it legally..

As for the people working full time. If they working and paying tax, then revenue notify the dept. of Social Protection of people starting work. this is i think done every month, but may be more frequent. Once DSP get the notice, they review a case to ensure it is all correct.

However if you think someone is being fruadalent, report them. The Dept. won't automatically cut someones money based on a report, but they will investigate each one.

It is also possible for postgraduate students doing a thesis by research only (i.e. not a taught masters as they would not be available to work with lectures) to obtain JSB or JSA. But certainly some of the people you say may be dole cheats and I would advise you to report them!

Degag

pulpfictionost wrote: »

Im studying down in Carlow IT and I see students in the dole queue each week, i know a few people claiming with rent allowance and having secret jobs in pubs etc. I know at least 4 people that brag about getting the dole in college and it pisses me off, Im working 4 nights a week to pay off my college fees and pay for insurance petrol and accomodation, im scraping by getting €120 euro a week and i work from 10 in the evening until 3:30 in the morning.
That on top of studying is a serious work load. I get on with it though because I know I have to, what else could i do? Go on welfare full time?
I dont get any handouts from anybody, and it makes me sick seeing these students sit on their fat holes every night drinking while I work at all hours.

Is it possible to report people anonymously for welfare fraud?

As an aside, you should be earning more than €120 for working 22 hours. Perhaps report your employer for not paying the minimum wage?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Report them, but do not make any accusations, you do not know their circumstances and what they are entitled to. Why are you in the dole queue may I ask?

Don't create a scenario because of your jealousy OP.

eth0_

Master of Nothing wrote: »

Oh btw you ARE allowed to work up to 20 hrs per week while on BTEA...

Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

I dread to think how much this scheme is costing the state. Let's face it, this country is so screwed at the moment (and will be for years to come) that getting a degree will do SFA to increase your job prospects and those who do complete their course while on BTEA will end up either emigrating or doing a low paid job unrelated to their new qualification.

I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.

Funkfield

eth0_ wrote: »

Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

No one on BTEA should be getting paid through the holidays. If they are, that's a disgrace. They should be on regular Jobseekers and be looking for work like everyone else.

eth0_ wrote: »

I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.

I think you're right.

snubbleste

eth0_ wrote: »

Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

I dread to think how much this scheme is costing the state. Let's face it, this country is so screwed at the moment (and will be for years to come) that getting a degree will do SFA to increase your job prospects and those who do complete their course while on BTEA will end up either emigrating or doing a low paid job unrelated to their new qualification.

I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.

There are almost 500,000 people out of work in this country and there are very few jobs. Do you think it is more productive for the State to pay €196 for people to seek almost non-existent positions or to encourage those people to upskill or reskill?

No one on Btea is paid during the holidays, they are able to apply for JA if they cannot find employment.

Balagan

Funkfield wrote: »

No one on BTEA should be getting paid through the holidays. If they are, that's a disgrace. They should be on regular Jobseekers and be looking for work like everyone else.



They are.

jamesie_boy

Do they not need written confirmation from the college to confirm they aren't in full time education? Surely there is a database they can look up to confirm your not in college

Balagan

eth0_ wrote: »

Yeah, and it's a pity they're not encouraged to do this. I know people on BTEA who totally exploited the system..they quit their jobs and sat on the dole for six months with no intention of getting a job, purely so they could go on BTEA, and go back to college with their rent paid and 196 euro pocket money each week. And now they have almost four months off for their summer holidays none of them have any intention of getting a part-time summer job.

I dread to think how much this scheme is costing the state. Let's face it, this country is so screwed at the moment (and will be for years to come) that getting a degree will do SFA to increase your job prospects and those who do complete their course while on BTEA will end up either emigrating or doing a low paid job unrelated to their new qualification.

I would put money on BTEA being drastically cut or axed in the next budget.

If you know of fraud, report it, but enough with the sweeping generalizations.

eth0_

I'm not making ANY sweeping generalisations. I'm talking about friends of mine who openly exploited the system. Of course there are people on the scheme who are on it because they genuinely couldn't find work because they hadn't got any qualifications, as opposed to thinking "Oh I fancy a career change. I've heard if quit my job and go on the dole for 6 months the social welfare will pay my rent and give me money while I do a degree".

And i'm right about a huge amount of these BTEA people not being any more employable after they finish their courses. If the government had been smart they would have restricted it to courses that correspond with areas of the workforce that have a low number of new graduates.

eth0_

snubbleste wrote: »

There are almost 500,000 people out of work in this country and there are very few jobs. Do you think it is more productive for the State to pay €196 for people to seek almost non-existent positions or to encourage those people to upskill or reskill?

Hypothetically yes, of course BTEA is a good idea. However, we already have a highly educated workforce yet we have no jobs and companies are going bust or pulling out of Ireland on a daily basis. BTEA needs to be overhauled and restricted to courses that are actually in demand by employers.

snubbleste wrote: »

No one on Btea is paid during the holidays, they are able to apply for JA if they cannot find employment.

Yes and they'll be transferred over to JA no questions asked - I saw this happen with my friends last summer. A nice 3-4 month holiday on 196 euro a week.

Balagan

eth0_ wrote: »

I'm not making ANY sweeping generalisations. I'm talking about friends of mine who openly exploited the system. Of course there are people on the scheme who are on it because they genuinely couldn't find work because they hadn't got any qualifications, as opposed to thinking "Oh I fancy a career change. I've heard if quit my job and go on the dole for 6 months the social welfare will pay my rent and give me money while I do a degree".

And i'm right about a huge amount of these BTEA people not being any more employable after they finish their courses. If the government had been smart they would have restricted it to courses that correspond with areas of the workforce that have a low number of new graduates.

Really?

Balagan

eth0_ wrote: »

Hypothetically yes, of course BTEA is a good idea. However, we already have a highly educated workforce yet we have no jobs and companies are going bust or pulling out of Ireland on a daily basis. BTEA needs to be overhauled and restricted to courses that are actually in demand by employers.



Yes and they'll be transferred over to JA no questions asked - I saw this happen with my friends last summer. A nice 3-4 month holiday on 196 euro a week.

And what courses would these employers who have no jobs like people to do?

eth0_

Balagan wrote: »

Really?

No, of course not - i'm specifically talking about a couple of people I KNOW. I'm not talking about EVERYONE on BTEA.

Matt88

eth0_ wrote: »

Hypothetically yes, of course BTEA is a good idea. However, we already have a highly educated workforce yet we have no jobs and companies are going bust or pulling out of Ireland on a daily basis. BTEA needs to be overhauled and restricted to courses that are actually in demand by employers.



Yes and they'll be transferred over to JA no questions asked - I saw this happen with my friends last summer. A nice 3-4 month holiday on 196 euro a week.

Hang on does that mean people in college can claim JA during the summer? I suppose they are available for work to be fair

eth0_

Matt88 wrote: »

Hang on does that mean people in college can claim JA during the summer? I suppose they are available for work to be fair

No. Having 2-3 months off college does not mean you are "available for work" as the department of social welfare define it. You can, however, apply for the dole as soon as you finish college, i.e. after you do your finals or drop out of your course (documentary evidence is required).

Matt88

eth0_ wrote: »

No. Having 2-3 months off college does not mean you are "available for work" as the department of social welfare define it. You can, however, apply for the dole as soon as you finish college, i.e. after you do your finals or drop out of your course (documentary evidence is required).

OK that makes sense to me anyway. That would leave it open for major fraud.

Does this also apply yo JB? They may have worked and got a load of credits. Do they have to wait to claim them?

eth0_

Matt88 wrote: »

Does this also apply yo JB? They may have worked and got a load of credits. Do they have to wait to claim them?

If you go back to college after having worked for a period of time, you would apply for a tax refund.

Balagan

Matt88 wrote: »

OK that makes sense to me anyway. That would leave it open for major fraud.

Does this also apply yo JB? They may have worked and got a load of credits. Do they have to wait to claim them?

This issue came up on other threads in past months and there were replies from one of the Moderators that JB can be claimed during summer hols from college courses. It's worth checking out with SW.

Matt88

Balagan wrote: »

This issue came up on other threads in past months and there were replies from one of the Moderators that JB can be claimed during summer hols from college courses. It's worth checking out with SW.

O cheers, I must look into that while I can

Nehaxak

eth0_ wrote: »

No. Having 2-3 months off college does not mean you are "available for work" as the department of social welfare define it. You can, however, apply for the dole as soon as you finish college, i.e. after you do your finals or drop out of your course (documentary evidence is required).

That's not correct. If you're available and looking for work and NOT currently participating in education, that's inclusive of the education/course having broken up for summer holidays - You ARE entitled to jobseekers like anyone else so long as you meet the conditions of the means test and so forth, again like anyone else has to go through.

Once your education/course/whatever starts back after the holiday period, you need to sign off the live register if you're going back to it/continuing your studies fulltime etc.,

Balagan

from:
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/OperationalGuidelines/Pages/ja_jobseekall.aspx

THIRD LEVEL STUDENTS

(a) Students who have not completed their final year :

Third level students who have not completed their final year at college are disqualified for receipt of JA during the academic term and for the duration of the summer vacation periods. This disqualification also applies to:

* Students pursuing Post Leaving Certificate courses of more than one year's duration;
* Irish/ EEA students returning from courses abroad; and
* Non- EEA third level students applying for JA in Ireland.

Nehaxak

I was told different. However, it may well have been because I was enquiring in regards the BTEA.

Puzzles me though, if you manage as a student to get fulltime employment during those 3 months or indeed you are working a fulltime job in the evenings after college - why exactly are you paying PRSI if you cannot claim it as jobseekers (benefit) if you are then made unemployed at the start of the summer college break ? Surely you can claim your entitlement to jobseekers benefit if you were paying or have paid the required amount of stamps ?

Balagan

Nehaxak wrote: »

I was told different. However, it may well have been because I was enquiring in regards the BTEA.

Puzzles me though, if you manage as a student to get fulltime employment during those 3 months or indeed you are working a fulltime job in the evenings after college - why exactly are you paying PRSI if you cannot claim it as jobseekers (benefit) if you are then made unemployed at the start of the summer college break ? Surely you can claim your entitlement to jobseekers benefit if you were paying or have paid the required amount of stamps ?

If you read through the link it states that BTEA enables you to claim JSA during Summer months, likewise mature students. Those with relevant credits can claim Jobseekers benefit.

IMC042

Can someone here please answer my question.

I finished a two year PLC course in May this year and subsequently applied for Jobseekers Allowance. I supplied the welfare office with a letter from my PLC college stating that my course was finished. I have not received any payments as yet.

I have now decided to pursue a third level course in an Institute of Technology and am returning this month to college.

My question is will i still get the back payments for the summer months as I was genuinely finished that PLC course and was seeking work until i decided to go and do this degree course??

Thanks!