Armbands

Airsoft Reloded

Hi all, I am just wondering here now. When we operated The Warehouse we used a the colour of tactical vests to tell teams apart, now some people liked this (especially noobs) and some people didn't.

So my question is how would you like teams to be told apart on game day, unfortunately you can't use camo unless it is an event and even at that it could be very difficult to ensure all your customers had the correct camo.

I guess our options are:

Armbands
Tac vests
Camo (though not really)

and I can't really think of anything else.

roryk1

armbands as most people have their own tac vest and loadout;)

Puding

my preference is always for camo, but as you say this is not always possible

arms bands is the most practical as no matter the gear the people turn up in you can split the teams up, best is a nice idea but this does rely on there being an even slit of vest colors which of course you can never guarantee

has to be arm bands for easy of use and practicality for pick up skirmish

thermo

what about baseball caps or similar?

swiftblade

I always find 99 % of the time i never see the arm band, but recongnise the person instead.

I would like to see arm bands that didnt stand out as much but i guess that would defeat the purpose of them :rolleyes:

Witcher

Armbands are the least invasive on a persons particular loadout..Hellfire in Bray use a wide strip of tape around your arm which I found good..doesn't move around and you don't have to worry about people leaving the site without returning it:)

Puding

thermo wrote: »

what about baseball caps or similar?

we thought about using caps at cork for an event we can, they do have the up side but unfortunately you have a hygine issue when reusing them ( don't laugh but as a site owner it is something you need to consider the same as washing masks after use ) also some poeple use full face masks which make a cap impossible to wear, some like to wear a helmet to protect against bb stricks, few other issue but you get the idea

thermo

Puding wrote: »

we thought about using caps at cork for an event we can, they do have the up side but unfortunately you have a hygine issue when reusing them ( don't laugh but as a site owner it is something you need to consider the same as washing masks after use ) also some poeple use full face masks which make a cap impossible to wear, some like to wear a helmet to protect against bb stricks, few other issue but you get the idea

was only an idea,,,,,,,,,,,,

J.D.R

Armbands, but make sure people put the arm they will be sticking round corners. Nothing more embarrassing then launching half a mag into someone, yelling at them to call their hits, and then having them poin to the colour of their armbands, which was on the side you couldn't see

swiftblade

Patches would be cool .eg red or blue. But not very practical as people would have to have the place to stick it on their camo.

Puding

thermo wrote: »

was only an idea,,,,,,,,,,,,

and was only giving some feedback from experience sorry if it came over as anything else

Witcher

J.D.R wrote: »

Armbands, but make sure people put the arm they will be sticking round corners.

That only works if the person turns each corner in the same stance..I'd change the side I'm using the rifle on when turning a corner depending on which way exposes me the least so I'd need tape on both arms..walking target:pac:

thermo

my thinking was heads are visable 90% of the time where arms much less so.....

J.D.R

Blay wrote: »

That only works if the person turns each corner in the same stance..I'd change the side I'm using the rifle on when turning a corner depending on which way exposes me the least so I'd need tape on both arms..walking target:pac:

Oh yeah. Must be having withdrawl or somthing

Br4tPr1nc3

you could use armbands,
and if two people are behind cover from each other and dont know each others colours, you could put in a rule where each person says their colour, but they have to be honest about it. then they dont have show themselves.

swiftblade

We could all run around in high vis vests, or different coloured hard hats

Airsoft Reloded

Yeah the problem I always saw with armbands was as you guys have said so far:

People for some reason steal them (or don't realize they are wearing them when leaving)

You could miss them every now and then

I can't think of anything you could do around the head that would be hygenic really.

I'm leaning towards armbands, even though I don't like them (but I guess everywhere uses them and there must be a reason).

thermo

you could either put some kind of removable marking, maybe a coloured tape on the front end of the guns?

Airsoft Reloded

swiftblade wrote: »

We could all run around in high vis vests, or different coloured hard hats

lol, keep em coming Sean

Puding

thermo wrote: »

my thinking was heads are visable 90% of the time where arms much less so.....

and that is one of the big advantages, cqb would be the best area to use something like this, in a forest i would not like to use caps as they would by nature have to be bright colored making stealthy observation of a target a little difficult

my main area of worry with this option is that they would mean that some peope would have to change the gear they wear to accommodate wearing a cap, know this is semi ok with helmets but when people might have to change there eye/face protection its a worry

you could get players to wear an arm band on each arm, seen this done a few times and does fix some of the issues others have mentioned

Airsoft Reloded

thermo wrote: »

you could either put some kind of removable marking, maybe a coloured tape on the front end of the guns?

That's an interesting idea now

Br4tPr1nc3 wrote: »

you could use armbands,
and if two people are behind cover from each other and dont know each others colours, you could put in a rule where each person says their colour, but they have to be honest about it. then they dont have show themselves.

Thats a great idea too

Perhaps a combination of armbands, the strip at the end of the gun and the rule above. Those three together would do away with any problems I think.

swiftblade

I think arm bands are the only really pratical solution.

Airsoft Reloded

So 1 team wears armbands (one on each arm) the other team wear none.

A strip at the end of everyone's gun

A rule that says when engaged if asked you must tell the other player your colour.

How does that sound to everybody?

Puding

is arm bands disappearing is an issue best bet is to add a deposit for them, been to a few places that make you put down a 5 euro deposit on the arm bands, people soon return them fast with this in place

of course the down side is that it requires man power to manage the arms bands going out and in

ED E

Headgear, headgear, headgear.

I know in urban ops its not as common as outdoor but the part of a person you usually see first is their head. Pick distinct yet not bright colours in Helets/Caps/masks and away you go. Caps are cheap. Bitta paint on current mask stock and covers for helmets. I'd go for maybe black, urban and OD. Maybe UN Blue too.

MagicIRL

Armbands is the best idea but maybe larger then average armbands. Somthing maybe2 hand-widths on the upper arm.

The smaller armbands are indeed often hard to see :<

swiftblade

I think that sounds good! But i think people should also be aware of who is on their team. Thats the best way to avoid friendly fire incidents

Airsoft Reloded

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Headgear, headgear, headgear.

I know in urban ops its not as common as outdoor but the part of a person you usually see first is their head. Pick distinct yet not bright colours in Helets/Caps/masks and away you go. Caps are cheap. Bitta paint on current mask stock and covers for helmets. I'd go for maybe black, urban and OD. Maybe UN Blue too.

Been through that dude, theres no hygenic option for rental head gear that any of us can think of.

Puding

A rule that says when engaged if asked you must tell the other player your colour.

a similar rule is used in areas at the mall in conjunction with arm bands, you can challenge anyone and they have to truth full give there team color but there is a grace period as you do this

there is always going to be issue with any system, you could just as easily miss colors on an aeg if your behind the person just as much as missing an arm band if your at the wrong angle, but to me that is part of the game

Airsoft Reloded

Puding wrote: »

is arm bands disappearing is an issue best bet is to add a deposit for them, been to a few places that make you put down a 5 euro deposit on the arm bands, people soon return them fast with this in place

of course the down side is that it requires man power to manage the arms bands going out and in

I have to say I hate taking deposits, we will have someone at the front door to soley handle rentals and such so thats no problem really.

Maybe a numbering system in which when you sign in you receive your armbands and your name is put down as having those numbered armbands?

Br4tPr1nc3

coloured maskin tape around the end of the gun, with a bit hanging down too.

Decoy

Another vote for armbands, least intrusive but still make team indentity reasonably easy to make out.

I think ASG sell coloured neoprene armband sets that work nicely, and if you're worried about them going home with players simply number them & note who gets what armband, that way you know what you're missing and who has it. Or you could take a nominal deposit for each armband and only give it back when the armband is returned, mush like the locker keys in Hellfire

Puding

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

I have to say I hate taking deposits, we will have someone at the front door to soley handle rentals and such so thats no problem really.

Maybe a numbering system in which when you sign in you receive your armbands and your name is put down as having those numbered armbands?

well deposit are the far end of the spectram, if you hand out the arm bands at the same time as weavers you can take down a number, but again not practical at time of paperwork as you may not know the numbers yet, you would just have to take names and numbers as you hand them out at a latter time

gerrowadat

I think too much emphasis is being put on preventing blue on blue here.

Part of the game (a big part actually) is knowing where the rest of your team are generally, what they're working on doing and a rough idea of who's with you, after a few minutes of play. It's called situational awareness.

I reckon if you don't know where the guys on your team are, blue on blue is inevitable. If your problem is that you brap your team-mates all the time as soon as they appear around a corner, then stop doing that, dingus. Just be less **** at the game like.

Airsoft Reloded

Puding wrote: »

well deposit are the far end of the spectram, if you hand out the arm bands at the same time as weavers you can take down a number, but again not practical at time of paperwork as you may not know the numbers yet, you would just have to take names and numbers as you hand them out at a latter time

Yeah, i'd reckon thats the job alright.

Ok then, thanks all for your comments. I'll go with the ould armbands and maybe throw a rule here and there.

Anyone know any Irish retailers that sells them?

J.D.R

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

So 1 team wears armbands (one on each arm) the other team wear none.

A strip at the end of everyone's gun

A rule that says when engaged if asked you must tell the other player your colour.

How does that sound to everybody?

The one team wears them, one team doesn't won't really work, as the one who has to wear them will complain if they lose saying "Yeah, but the band makes me stick out more". Better having them all wear them, just very different, and bright, colours.

And I knwo alot of people who would object to having sellotape on the end of their "Babies". I wouldn't, but then again I'm not a drama queen.

And shouting out your colour may give away a position to the eemy, but in a CQB site, I'd say it would work

Airsoft Reloded

Lol, fair point but I'm thinking largely of new players here Dave.

gerrowadat wrote: »

I think too much emphasis is being put on preventing blue on blue here.

Part of the game (a big part actually) is knowing where the rest of your team are generally, what they're working on doing and a rough idea of who's with you, after a few minutes of play. It's called situational awareness.

I reckon if you don't know where the guys on your team are, blue on blue is inevitable. If your problem is that you brap your team-mates all the time as soon as they appear around a corner, then stop doing that, dingus. Just be less **** at the game like.

Puding

have to agree and i did mention this in an early post, for me as well the situational awareness of your team and where it is, is just part of the fun, if you get blue on blue then so be it

swiftblade

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Yeah, i'd reckon thats the job alright.

Ok then, thanks all for your comments. I'll go with the ould armbands and maybe throw a rule here and there.

Anyone know any Irish retailers that sells them?

Not sure if they're in stock.

http://www.seairsoft.net/product_details.php?id=283&sub=24&subcat=Miscellaneous

You could ask steve here on the forums

Airsoft Reloded

It says that they're out of stock dude.

Anyone know anyone else thats sells them????

swiftblade wrote: »

Not sure if they're in stock.

http://www.seairsoft.net/product_details.php?id=283&sub=24&subcat=Miscellaneous

You could ask steve here on the forums

gerrowadat

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

Lol, fair point but I'm thinking largely of new players here Dave.

True enough, but I think you lose a big part of the game, even for n00bs, if you try too hard to make people stand out. Means people think before firing and makes the game more challenging and rewarding (and the opposite of rewarding for blue on blues :-)).

J.D.R

If an Airsoft shop doesn't stock them, I am sure if you walk into a Sports shop they'll oint you in the right direction (but I understand if you wanted to "Keep it in the Family" as they say)

NakedDex

J.D.R wrote: »

The one team wears them, one team doesn't won't really work, as the one who has to wear them will complain if they lose saying "Yeah, but the band makes me stick out more". Better having them all wear them, just very different, and bright, colours.

And I knwo alot of people who would object to having sellotape on the end of their "Babies". I wouldn't, but then again I'm not a drama queen.

And shouting out your colour may give away a position to the eemy, but in a CQB site, I'd say it would work

To be perfectly fair, most peoples camo choice these days is about as far removed from the concept of camoflage as you can get. Wearing a two inch wide strip of blue or red nylon isn't going to damage your ability to conceal yourself against a white wall while wearing DPM, or standing next to a green bush while wearing ACU.
Personally, I'm with Dave on this. Half the challenge is knowing where your team is. It's an immersion experience after all. As Puding said, having a set camo choice would be ideal, but not everyone has that option so it's something best left for events where it can be forewarned to all participants.

My rifles aren't my "babies", as you put it, but I'd rather prefer not to put coloured insulation tape at the end of a rifle I spent €500+ trying to make as authentic as possible. It's not something that'd stop me from playing, but it's something that would, honestly, annoy the hell out of me.

As regards the idea of a challenge call to ascertain the colour, I reckon that would work quite well. It's not really going to give away a position as, chances are, if you're hunkered down somewhere and someone is shouting for your colour, they know where you are anyway. If they're an enemy, you're already in the mix. If they're a teammate, then you're safe (or you're hunkered down because you're already engaged. Either way, they already know where you are).


If you're definitely going to put in some sort of IFF system, armbands are the simplest solution, and simple solutions work.

Airsoft Reloded

gerrowadat wrote: »

True enough, but I think you lose a big part of the game, even for n00bs, if you try too hard to make people stand out. Means people think before firing and makes the game more challenging and rewarding (and the opposite of rewarding for blue on blues :-)).

Fair enough so, we'll go with the norm and see how we go. Thanks for the advice Dave, Dex and Puding.

Oh do you know of anywhere that has them in stock by any chance? :rolleyes:

deco nate

why not use coloured duct tape,any good hardware shop.
and its cheap as chips,as said before,no worries bout
people forgettin to give armbands back at
the end of the day

Spetzcong

or you could use a bit of coloured tape on peoples mask/headgear, that way you can avail of the head being the part of the enemy player that is most regularly seen. 90% of players I see out gaming wear something on their head, be it balaclava, helmet, baseball cap etc. a bit of coloured tape on your hat isn't going to be that hard to remove, and you wouldn't need to be bothered about people stealing it or hygene issues related to some sort of reusable head gear.

Stonewolf

I've played a few times down at ABZ where there's not a single thing to differentiate the teams. No armbands or tape or hats or even camo colours, you just get roughly familiarised before play and work out a challenge-response for the team. It works, its simple and it doesn't require any effort on the part of the organisers. Airsofters, even newbs aren't stupid, this kind of thing will naturally assert itself if left to its own devices. What's even better is that the need to know your team encourages people to meet and talk before the game kicks off which makes for a more cohesive team and increases the likelihood that they'll try something more complex than wave after wave of their own BBs.

I don't like this idea of being required to yell out your team when challenged, it removes some of the tension and skill to the game and prevents the use of sheer bravado to knife kill a bunch of guys. The response to "friend or foe?" is always "friend".

gerrowadat

Yep, "Friend or foe?" is useless, I had it shouted at me a few times in predator and just opened up on whoever did it, because they were in front of my battle facing. Was right each time.

Challenge-response should be worked out ahead of time. A favourite method is to define a number, say, 14, and for the challenge to be any number up to 14, with the response being the difference between that and 14. So, if someone shouts 8, you shout 6 or get brapped.

Damo 2k9

The number thing is what we normally do at night games in fingal, it works until people go around shouting it and then the enemy knows it :P

SpookyBastard

Coloured electrical tape is handy and cheap. In Section 8 they put red team tape on the left arm and blue team tape on the right arm. That way you could also tell by the arm if you couldn't see the tape. Sometimes you'd call out to make sure you weren't on the same team if you couldn't see each other too well but mostly it was more a case of if you can't tell friend from foe hold your fire until you can.

Private Snafu

It's so simple... Shirts & skins
/end thread/